They thought of *everything* that might doom Microsoft.

Nemo even includes a special library for handling hyphens: libhyphen0
("a high quality hyphenation and justification library based on the TeX
hyphenation algorithm")

'high quality hyphenation'... Microsoft just needs to replace File
Explorer with Nemo and admit defeat at the hands of libhyphen0.

LMAO! What a hobbyware fiasco.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
dfs@WSL_Ubuntu:~/files$ sudo apt install nemo
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
The following additional packages will be installed:

1 accountsservice
2 alsa-topology-conf
3 alsa-ucm-conf
4 alsa-utils
5 arj
6 bluez-obexd
7 bubblewrap
8 bundler
9 cairo-5c
10 catdoc
11 cinnamon-desktop-data
12 cinnamon-l10n
13 cracklib-runtime
14 dbus-user-session
15 debhelper
16 docbook
17 docbook-defguide
18 docbook-dsssl
19 docbook-xml
20 docbook-xsl
21 dvisvgm
22 eog
23 evince
24 exif
25 fancontrol
26 file-roller
27 fonts-droid-fallback
28 fonts-freefont-otf
29 fonts-freefont-ttf
30 fonts-lato
31 fonts-lmodern
32 fonts-noto
33 fonts-noto-mono
34 fonts-texgyre
35 fonts-urw-base35
36 gcr
37 ghostscript
38 gist
39 glib-networking
40 glib-networking-common
41 glib-networking-services
42 gnome-disk-utility
43 gnome-keyring
44 gnome-keyring-pkcs11
45 gphoto2
46 gstreamer1.0-alsa
47 gstreamer1.0-gl
48 gstreamer1.0-libav
49 gstreamer1.0-plugins-bad
50 gstreamer1.0-plugins-good
51 gstreamer1.0-x
52 gv
53 gvfs-backends
54 gvfs-fuse
55 hwdata
56 i2c-tools
57 id3
58 inxi
59 jackd2
60 lha
61 libaa1
62 libarchive13
63 libasound2
64 libasound2-data
65 libasound2-plugins
66 libasyncns0
67 libauthen-ntlm-perl
68 libauthen-sasl-perl
69 libavahi-glib1
70 libavc1394-0
71 libcaca0
72 libcanberra0
73 libcanberra-gtk0
74 libcanberra-gtk3-0
75 libcanberra-gtk3-module
76 libcanberra-pulse
77 libcdio19
78 libcdio-cdda2
79 libcdio-paranoia2
80 libcinnamon-desktop4
81 libclone-perl
82 libcrack2
83 libcrypt-ssleay-perl
84 libdata-dump-perl
85 libdbusmenu-glib4
86 libdbusmenu-gtk3-4
87 libdigest-hmac-perl
88 libdrm-amdgpu1
89 libdrm-intel1
90 libdrm-nouveau2
91 libdrm-radeon1
92 libdv4
93 libdv-bin
94 libegl1
95 libegl-mesa0
96 libencode-locale-perl
97 libevdev2
98 libexempi8
99 libfile-basedir-perl
100 libfile-desktopentry-perl
101 libfile-listing-perl
102 libfile-mimeinfo-perl
103 libflac8
104 libfont-afm-perl
105 libfontenc1
106 libgail-3-0
107 libgbm1
108 libgcr-ui-3-1
109 libgdata22
110 libgdata-common
111 libgl1
112 libgl1-amber-dri
113 libgl1-mesa-dri
114 libglapi-mesa
115 libgles2
116 libglvnd0
117 libglx0
118 libglx-mesa0
119 libgnomekbd8
120 libgnomekbd-common
121 libgoa-1.0-0b
122 libgoa-1.0-common
123 libgphoto2-6
124 libgphoto2-l10n
125 libgphoto2-port12
126 libgraphene-1.0-0
127 libgs9
128 libgs9-common
129 libgsf-1-114
130 libgsf-1-common
131 libgssapi-perl
132 libgstreamer-gl1.0-0
133 libgstreamer-plugins-good1.0-0
134 libgtkd-3-0
135 libhandy-1-0
136 libharfbuzz-icu0
137 libhtml-format-perl
138 libhtml-form-perl
139 libhtml-parser-perl
140 libhtml-tagset-perl
141 libhtml-tree-perl
142 libhttp-cookies-perl
143 libhttp-daemon-perl
144 libhttp-date-perl
145 libhttp-message-perl
146 libhttp-negotiate-perl
147 libhyphen0
148 libidn12
149 libiec61883-0
150 libijs-0.35
151 libimobiledevice6
152 libio-html-perl
153 libio-socket-ssl-perl
154 libio-stringy-perl
155 libipc-system-simple-perl
156 libjack-jackd2-0
157 libjavascriptcoregtk-4.0-18
158 libjbig2dec0
159 libjson-glib-1.0-0
160 libjson-glib-1.0-common
161 libkpathsea6
162 libldb2
163 libllvm11
164 libllvm15
165 libltdl7
166 liblwp-mediatypes-perl
167 liblwp-protocol-https-perl
168 libmailtools-perl
169 libmanette-0.2-0
170 libmp3lame0
171 libmpg123-0
172 libmtp9
173 libmtp-common
174 libmtp-runtime
175 libnautilus-extension1a
176 libnemo-extension1
177 libnet-dbus-perl
178 libnet-http-perl
179 libnet-smtp-ssl-perl
180 libnet-ssleay-perl
181 libnfs13
182 libpam-gnome-keyring
183 libpaper1
184 libpaper-utils
185 libpciaccess0
186 libphobos2-ldc-shared98
187 libpipewire-0.3-0
188 libpipewire-0.3-common
189 libpipewire-0.3-modules
190 libplist3
191 libproxy1v5
192 libptexenc1
193 libpulse0
194 libpwquality1
195 libpwquality-common
196 libraw1394-11
197 libraw1394-doc
198 libruby3.0
199 libsamplerate0
200 libsensors5
201 libsensors-config
202 libshout3
203 libsmbclient
204 libsndfile1
205 libsoup2.4-1
206 libsoup2.4-common
207 libspa-0.2-modules
208 libspeex1
209 libsub-name-perl
210 libsynctex2
211 libtag1v5
212 libtag1v5-vanilla
213 libtalloc2
214 libtdb1
215 libteckit0
216 libtevent0
217 libtexlua53
218 libtexluajit2
219 libtie-ixhash-perl
220 libtimedate-perl
221 libtry-tiny-perl
222 libtwolame0
223 libunicode-map8-perl
224 libunicode-string-perl
225 libusbmuxd6
226 libusbmuxd-tools
227 libv4l-0
228 libv4lconvert0
229 libvorbisfile3
230 libvpx7
231 libvte-2.91-0
232 libvte-2.91-common
233 libvted-3-0
234 libwavpack1
235 libwayland-server0
236 libwbclient0
237 libwebkit2gtk-4.0-37
238 libwebpdemux2
239 libwebrtc-audio-processing1
240 libwoff1
241 libwpe-1.0-1
242 libwpebackend-fdo-1.0-1
243 libwww-perl
244 libwww-robotrules-perl
245 libx11-protocol-perl
246 libxapp1
247 libxaw7
248 libxcb-dri2-0
249 libxcb-dri3-0
250 libxcb-glx0
251 libxcb-present0
252 libxcb-randr0
253 libxcb-shape0
254 libxcb-sync1
255 libxcb-xfixes0
256 libxft2
257 libxkbfile1
258 libxklavier16
259 libxml2-utils
260 libxml-dumper-perl
261 libxml-parser-perl
262 libxml-twig-perl
263 libxml-xpathengine-perl
264 libxmu6
265 libxshmfence1
266 libxslt1.1
267 libxt6
268 libxv1
269 libxxf86dga1
270 libxxf86vm1
271 libyelp0
272 libzzip-0-13
273 lmodern
274 lm-sensors
275 lrzip
276 lzip
277 lzop
278 mesa-utils
279 mesa-utils-bin
280 mp3-decoder
281 ncompress
282 nemo
283 nemo-data
284 nemo-fileroller
285 nickle
286 odt2txt
287 opensp
288 oss-compat
289 p11-kit
290 p11-kit-modules
291 p7zip-full
292 pdf-viewer
293 perl-openssl-defaults
294 perlsgml
295 perl-tk
296 pinentry-doc
297 pinentry-gnome3
298 pipewire
299 pipewire-bin
300 pipewire-media-session
301 poppler-utils
302 postscript-viewer
303 pulseaudio
304 python3-ldb
305 python3-talloc
306 python3-xlrd
307 python-nautilus
308 rake
309 read-edid
310 ri
311 rpm2cpio
312 rtkit
313 ruby
314 ruby3.0
315 ruby-dev
316 rubygems-integration
317 ruby-json
318 ruby-net-telnet
319 ruby-rubygems
320 ruby-webrick
321 ruby-xmlrpc
322 rzip
323 samba-common
324 samba-libs
325 sgml-base
326 sgml-base-doc
327 sgml-data
328 sharutils
329 sound-theme-freedesktop
330 speex
331 t1utils
332 tex-common
333 texlive-base
334 texlive-binaries
335 tilix
336 tilix-common
337 tk
338 totem
339 tree
340 unace
341 unalz
342 unar
343 unzip
344 usbmuxd
345 w3-recs
346 wamerican
347 wish
348 x11-utils
349 x11-xkb-utils
350 x11-xserver-utils
351 xapp
352 xapps-common
353 xdg-dbus-proxy
354 xdg-desktop-portal
355 xdg-desktop-portal-gnome
356 xdg-desktop-portal-gtk
357 xdg-utils
358 xfonts-encodings
359 xfonts-utils
360 xml-core
361 xml-twig-tools
362 xorg-docs-core
363 xpdf
364 xzdec
365 yelp
366 yelp-xsl
367 zip
368 zoo

includes 'suggested' and 'NEW'.

After this operation, 765 MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n]
----------------------------------------------------------------------

After installing, it launched and ran just fine but looked like total
crap on WSL. But it has some good options/features - a lot better than
that Thunar (cr)app.

On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 09:55:41 -0400, DFS wrote:

> 'high quality hyphenation'... Microsoft just needs to replace File
> Explorer with Nemo and admit defeat at the hands of libhyphen0.
>
> LMAO! What a hobbyware fiasco.

There you go again. On the Fedora box it downloaded 26 packages for a
total of 14 MB. I don't see any advantage over Dolphin.

On 4/13/2024 2:35 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 09:55:41 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> 'high quality hyphenation'... Microsoft just needs to replace File
>> Explorer with Nemo and admit defeat at the hands of libhyphen0.
>>
>> LMAO! What a hobbyware fiasco.
>
> There you go again. On the Fedora box it downloaded 26 packages for a
> total of 14 MB.

Did you get the high quality hyphenation library?

The chaotic Linux hobbyware world does make me chuckle sometimes.

> I don't see any advantage over Dolphin.

Probably none. It's been a while since I looked at Dolphin, but as I
recall it was extremely configurable.

Here's what Nemo looks like on WSL.

https://imgur.com/xNaX3ES

Scary.

DFS wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

>
> They thought of *everything* that might doom Microsoft.
>
> Nemo even includes a special library for handling hyphens: libhyphen0
> ("a high quality hyphenation and justification library based on the TeX
> hyphenation algorithm")
>
> 'high quality hyphenation'... Microsoft just needs to replace File
> Explorer with Nemo and admit defeat at the hands of libhyphen0.
>
> LMAO! What a hobbyware fiasco.

What, DFS complaining about a program that, based on the list below, has
a lot of capability?

If you look at his list, it is pretty obvious he started with a barebones
install. I mean, libxml not installed yet?

Here's what I see on my Arch box:

# pacman -S nemo
resolving dependencies...
looking for conflicting packages...

Packages (5) cinnamon-desktop-6.0.0-1 exempi-2.6.5-1 libgnomekbd-1:3.28.1-1
xapp-2.8.2-1 nemo-6.0.2-1

Total Download Size: 2.09 MiB
Total Installed Size: 8.70 MiB

:: Proceed with installation? [Y/n]

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> dfs@WSL_Ubuntu:~/files$ sudo apt install nemo
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree... Done
> Reading state information... Done
> The following additional packages will be installed:
>
> 1 accountsservice
> 2 alsa-topology-conf
> 3 alsa-ucm-conf
> 4 alsa-utils
> . . .
> 365 yelp
> 366 yelp-xsl
> 367 zip
> 368 zoo
>
> includes 'suggested' and 'NEW'.
>
> After this operation, 765 MB of additional disk space will be used.
> Do you want to continue? [Y/n]
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> After installing, it launched and ran just fine but looked like total
> crap on WSL. But it has some good options/features - a lot better than
> that Thunar (cr)app.

Looks a lot like Thunar to me.

DFS, your bus is calling.

--
You will be run over by a bus.

rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 09:55:41 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> 'high quality hyphenation'... Microsoft just needs to replace File
>> Explorer with Nemo and admit defeat at the hands of libhyphen0.
>>
>> LMAO! What a hobbyware fiasco.
>
> There you go again. On the Fedora box it downloaded 26 packages for a
> total of 14 MB. I don't see any advantage over Dolphin.

If he wants to see a bloated hobbyware fiasco, he should install Visual Studio.

--
It is often the case that the man who can't tell a lie thinks he is the best
judge of one.
-- Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar"

On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 09:49:40 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> If he wants to see a bloated hobbyware fiasco, he should install Visual
> Studio.

Just updating an existing Visual Studio installation should do the trick.

Relf wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> Ahlstrom:
>> If DFS wants to see a bloated hobbyware fiasco,
>> he should install Visual Studio.
>
> "vim" is for nerds who can get a date.
>
> Again:
> I use a _normal_ text editor, like Borland's "Turbo Pascal" & "Turbo C".
> 35 years ago, in 1989, Seattle, "Microsoft C" ( on Win2 ) was my editor/IDE;
> later, it was called "DevStudio", now "Visual Studio".

Some people live and die by Visual Studio. I found it bloated, intrusive,
and annoying. To hell with Intellisense!

Using vim, GNU autools/libtool, qmake, or meson from a terminal window is much
more pleasant to me.

YMMV

--
There's small choice in rotten apples.
-- William Shakespeare, "The Taming of the Shrew"

Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote at 13:47 this Sunday (GMT):
> DFS wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>>
>> They thought of *everything* that might doom Microsoft.
>>
>> Nemo even includes a special library for handling hyphens: libhyphen0
>> ("a high quality hyphenation and justification library based on the TeX
>> hyphenation algorithm")
>>
>> 'high quality hyphenation'... Microsoft just needs to replace File
>> Explorer with Nemo and admit defeat at the hands of libhyphen0.
>>
>> LMAO! What a hobbyware fiasco.
>
> What, DFS complaining about a program that, based on the list below, has
> a lot of capability?
>
> If you look at his list, it is pretty obvious he started with a barebones
> install. I mean, libxml not installed yet?
>
> Here's what I see on my Arch box:
>
> # pacman -S nemo
> resolving dependencies...
> looking for conflicting packages...
>
> Packages (5) cinnamon-desktop-6.0.0-1 exempi-2.6.5-1 libgnomekbd-1:3.28.1-1
> xapp-2.8.2-1 nemo-6.0.2-1
>
> Total Download Size: 2.09 MiB
> Total Installed Size: 8.70 MiB
>
>:: Proceed with installation? [Y/n]
>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> dfs@WSL_Ubuntu:~/files$ sudo apt install nemo
>> Reading package lists... Done
>> Building dependency tree... Done
>> Reading state information... Done
>> The following additional packages will be installed:
>>
>> 1 accountsservice
>> 2 alsa-topology-conf
>> 3 alsa-ucm-conf
>> 4 alsa-utils
>> . . .
>> 365 yelp
>> 366 yelp-xsl
>> 367 zip
>> 368 zoo
>>
>> includes 'suggested' and 'NEW'.
>>
>> After this operation, 765 MB of additional disk space will be used.
>> Do you want to continue? [Y/n]
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> After installing, it launched and ran just fine but looked like total
>> crap on WSL. But it has some good options/features - a lot better than
>> that Thunar (cr)app.
>
> Looks a lot like Thunar to me.
>
> DFS, your bus is calling.

Both work perfectly fine. I prefer Thunar tho.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 4/15/24 06:37, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> Relf wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> Ahlstrom:
>>> If DFS wants to see a bloated hobbyware fiasco,
>>> he should install Visual Studio.
>>
>> "vim" is for nerds who can get a date.
>>
>> Again:
>> I use a _normal_ text editor, like Borland's "Turbo Pascal" & "Turbo C".
>> 35 years ago, in 1989, Seattle, "Microsoft C" ( on Win2 ) was my editor/IDE;
>> later, it was called "DevStudio", now "Visual Studio".
>
> Some people live and die by Visual Studio. I found it bloated, intrusive,
> and annoying. To hell with Intellisense!
>
> Using vim, GNU autools/libtool, qmake, or meson from a terminal window is much
> more pleasant to me.
>
> YMMV
>

I read somewhere one of the C teachers and author said using IDE to
learn C is wasteful because they usually have learning curves. Even the
choice of an editor alone should be one of simplest ones, to avoid yet
another learning curve.

It said, learn C and only then use an editor like Emacs or an IDE.

Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> wrote at 21:06 this Monday (GMT):
> On 4/15/24 06:37, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> Relf wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>>> Ahlstrom:
>>>> If DFS wants to see a bloated hobbyware fiasco,
>>>> he should install Visual Studio.
>>>
>>> "vim" is for nerds who can get a date.
>>>
>>> Again:
>>> I use a _normal_ text editor, like Borland's "Turbo Pascal" & "Turbo C".
>>> 35 years ago, in 1989, Seattle, "Microsoft C" ( on Win2 ) was my editor/IDE;
>>> later, it was called "DevStudio", now "Visual Studio".
>>
>> Some people live and die by Visual Studio. I found it bloated, intrusive,
>> and annoying. To hell with Intellisense!
>>
>> Using vim, GNU autools/libtool, qmake, or meson from a terminal window is much
>> more pleasant to me.
>>
>> YMMV
>>
>
>
> I read somewhere one of the C teachers and author said using IDE to
> learn C is wasteful because they usually have learning curves. Even the
> choice of an editor alone should be one of simplest ones, to avoid yet
> another learning curve.
>
> It said, learn C and only then use an editor like Emacs or an IDE.

The real horror of learning C is the make system.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

candycanearter07 wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> wrote at 21:06 this Monday (GMT):
>> On 4/15/24 06:37, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>
>> I read somewhere one of the C teachers and author said using IDE to
>> learn C is wasteful because they usually have learning curves. Even the
>> choice of an editor alone should be one of simplest ones, to avoid yet
>> another learning curve.
>>
>> It said, learn C and only then use an editor like Emacs or an IDE.
>
> The real horror of learning C is the make system.

Nah, not for basic apps.

And for apps and libraries involving a number of subdirectories, ANY
build system will take awhile to learn and set up.

TANSTAAFL!

--
The Priest's grey nimbus in a niche where he dressed discreetly.
I will not sleep here tonight. Home also I cannot go.
A voice, sweetened and sustained, called to him from the sea.
Turning the curve he waved his hand. A sleek brown head, a seal's, far
out on the water, round. Usurper.
-- James Joyce, "Ulysses"

On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 11:44:06 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> And for apps and libraries involving a number of subdirectories, ANY
> build system will take awhile to learn and set up.

You haven't lived until you've dealt with a clean build that first
processes a number of ddl files that result in required .h files and then
use rpcgen on .x files that again create .h files as well as three .c
stubs for the XDR code, the server side stub, and the client side stub.
then you can get down to the .c files, some of which will have -D macro
flag to create different versions of the executables.

Of course make provides coherent and helpful explanations of the problems
it encounters.

survive that and you can move on to WiX to create dotnet installation
packages, Maven, Jenkins, or the Angular universe.

Definitely no free lunches.

On 4/16/24 10:10, candycanearter07 wrote:
> Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> wrote at 21:06 this Monday (GMT):
>> On 4/15/24 06:37, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>> Relf wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>
>>>> Ahlstrom:
>>>>> If DFS wants to see a bloated hobbyware fiasco,
>>>>> he should install Visual Studio.
>>>>
>>>> "vim" is for nerds who can get a date.
>>>>
>>>> Again:
>>>> I use a _normal_ text editor, like Borland's "Turbo Pascal" & "Turbo C".
>>>> 35 years ago, in 1989, Seattle, "Microsoft C" ( on Win2 ) was my editor/IDE;
>>>> later, it was called "DevStudio", now "Visual Studio".
>>>
>>> Some people live and die by Visual Studio. I found it bloated, intrusive,
>>> and annoying. To hell with Intellisense!
>>>
>>> Using vim, GNU autools/libtool, qmake, or meson from a terminal window is much
>>> more pleasant to me.
>>>
>>> YMMV
>>>
>>
>>
>> I read somewhere one of the C teachers and author said using IDE to
>> learn C is wasteful because they usually have learning curves. Even the
>> choice of an editor alone should be one of simplest ones, to avoid yet
>> another learning curve.
>>
>> It said, learn C and only then use an editor like Emacs or an IDE.
>
>
> The real horror of learning C is the make system.

I don't (yet) know what that exactly means.

rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 11:44:06 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>
>> And for apps and libraries involving a number of subdirectories, ANY
>> build system will take awhile to learn and set up.
>
> You haven't lived until you've dealt with a clean build that first
> processes a number of ddl files that result in required .h files and then
> use rpcgen on .x files that again create .h files as well as three .c
> stubs for the XDR code, the server side stub, and the client side stub.
> then you can get down to the .c files, some of which will have -D macro
> flag to create different versions of the executables.
>
> Of course make provides coherent and helpful explanations of the problems
> it encounters.

I dunno, I have a MIDI conversion project I extended that created the parser
using flex.

I run "info flex" and I shudder.

> survive that and you can move on to WiX to create dotnet installation
> packages, Maven, Jenkins, or the Angular universe.

Isn't Wix like, deprecated? (years ago)

> Definitely no free lunches.

I remember years ago looking into bjam, and it *almost* worked the best.
Couldn't figure out how to get Doxygen documentation generated
with an alternate build directory.

Anyway, I am liking Meson reasonbly much.

--
Q: What do you call a principal female opera singer whose high C
is lower than those of other principal female opera singers?
A: A deep C diva.

On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 18:07:23 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> I dunno, I have a MIDI conversion project I extended that created the
> parser using flex.
>
> I run "info flex" and I shudder.

Don't forget it's running mate, bison. There was a theory the support
people needed a way to configure simple text reports to display incident
information. The programmer used flex and bison to create a configuration
language plus a 20 page document on its use that nobody understood. To
further obfuscate the matter the executable used macros like

#define CREATE_FMT_STR_DECL(obj) \
char *create_##obj##_fmt_str (fmt_strf_map_t *fmt)
#define CREATE_FMT_STR(obj) \
CREATE_FMT_STR_DECL(obj) \
{ \
return (create_obj_fmt_str (obj##_map, fmt)); \
}

to generate code which didn't have much in the way of actual functions. It
was a maintenance nightmare.

Example configuration files were provided which support used without
understanding them. If a client requested a change in a report the support
people developed a ploy of mangling the example and asking programming if
it was correct in hopes that programming would fix the thing.

> Isn't Wix like, deprecated? (years ago)

Not even a little bit....

https://wixtoolset.org/docs/wix3/

Note that v4 was more or less a breaking change from v3. You can install
the tool in Visual Studio and it will generate templates that may or may
not be useful. It is, as they say, powerful. (translation: it's like
someone gave you a paraglider, an instruction book, pushed you off a
cliff, and yelled 'Good luck!')

rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 18:07:23 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>
>> I dunno, I have a MIDI conversion project I extended that created the
>> parser using flex.
>>
>> I run "info flex" and I shudder.
>
> Don't forget it's running mate, bison. There was a theory the support
> people needed a way to configure simple text reports to display incident
> information. The programmer used flex and bison to create a configuration
> language plus a 20 page document on its use that nobody understood. To
> further obfuscate the matter the executable used macros like
>
> #define CREATE_FMT_STR_DECL(obj) \
> char *create_##obj##_fmt_str (fmt_strf_map_t *fmt)
> #define CREATE_FMT_STR(obj) \
> CREATE_FMT_STR_DECL(obj) \
> { \
> return (create_obj_fmt_str (obj##_map, fmt)); \
> }
>
> to generate code which didn't have much in the way of actual functions. It
> was a maintenance nightmare.

For even more macro madness, check out Boost. Luckily, one rarely needed
to read that stuff.

> Example configuration files were provided which support used without
> understanding them. If a client requested a change in a report the support
> people developed a ploy of mangling the example and asking programming if
> it was correct in hopes that programming would fix the thing.
>
>> Isn't Wix like, deprecated? (years ago)
>
> Not even a little bit....
>
> https://wixtoolset.org/docs/wix3/

Ah, now I remember. Wix was actually on the Navy network blacklist for
some reason. We ended up using NSIS. We had been using InstallShield but
wotta crocka shit!

For my projects that are ported to Windows I use NSIS.

> Note that v4 was more or less a breaking change from v3. You can install
> the tool in Visual Studio and it will generate templates that may or may
> not be useful. It is, as they say, powerful. (translation: it's like
> someone gave you a paraglider, an instruction book, pushed you off a
> cliff, and yelled 'Good luck!')

--
WinAmp really whips the llama's ass!

On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 09:01:43 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> Ah, now I remember. Wix was actually on the Navy network blacklist for
> some reason. We ended up using NSIS. We had been using InstallShield but
> wotta crocka shit!
>
> For my projects that are ported to Windows I use NSIS.

I think we use NSIS for something. I remember asking the build guy about
it.

Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> wrote at 20:54 this Tuesday (GMT):
> On 4/16/24 10:10, candycanearter07 wrote:
>> Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> wrote at 21:06 this Monday (GMT):
>>> On 4/15/24 06:37, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>> Relf wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>
>>>>> Ahlstrom:
>>>>>> If DFS wants to see a bloated hobbyware fiasco,
>>>>>> he should install Visual Studio.
>>>>>
>>>>> "vim" is for nerds who can get a date.
>>>>>
>>>>> Again:
>>>>> I use a _normal_ text editor, like Borland's "Turbo Pascal" & "Turbo C".
>>>>> 35 years ago, in 1989, Seattle, "Microsoft C" ( on Win2 ) was my editor/IDE;
>>>>> later, it was called "DevStudio", now "Visual Studio".
>>>>
>>>> Some people live and die by Visual Studio. I found it bloated, intrusive,
>>>> and annoying. To hell with Intellisense!
>>>>
>>>> Using vim, GNU autools/libtool, qmake, or meson from a terminal window is much
>>>> more pleasant to me.
>>>>
>>>> YMMV
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I read somewhere one of the C teachers and author said using IDE to
>>> learn C is wasteful because they usually have learning curves. Even the
>>> choice of an editor alone should be one of simplest ones, to avoid yet
>>> another learning curve.
>>>
>>> It said, learn C and only then use an editor like Emacs or an IDE.
>>
>>
>> The real horror of learning C is the make system.
>
> I don't (yet) know what that exactly means.

make is exclusive to Unix, and doesn't work super well with seperated
source directories
CMake has so many different switches and options and stuff that there
are whole courses on it
Zig is.. confusing (and also somewhat hacky to use with c imo)

Those are the ones I've used. Im planning on learning Meson, but I've
been putting it off some.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom