On 2024-04-23, Bill Powell <bill@anarchists.org> wrote:
>
> Apple originally supplied a GUI to specifically turn UWB off in the beta.
> https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/disable-ultra-wideband-chip-iphone/
>
> How to Disable the Ultra Wideband Chip in Your iPhone 11 Pro
> to Prevent Location Data Usage
>
> "A security researcher discovered that Apple's iPhone 11 Pro models
> access user location data even when all apps and system services on the
> *iPhone* are set to not request the data... Apple responded by explaining
> that *these *iPhone** models have a U1 Ultra Wideband chip... With the
> release of iOS 13.3.1, Apple is adding an option to its *iPhone* software
> that allows users to turn off the UI chip entirely if they so wish.
>
> The new option is hidden away in settings, but you can find it by
> following the steps below.
>
> Launch the Settings app on your *iPhone*.
> Tap Privacy.
> Tap Location Services.
> Tap System Services at the bottom of the menu.
> Toggle the Networking & Wireless switch to the grey OFF position.
> A prompt will appear - tap Turn Off to confirm."
>
> Did that UWB privacy switch never make it into the iOS release stream?

It's still there in iOS 16.

Of course by disabling it you naturally lose the ability to locate your
stolen or lost device, among other things.

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On 2024-04-23, Nick Cine <nickcine@is.invalid> wrote:
> On 22 Apr 2024 22:54:15 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>>> Open your eyes this time.
>>
>> Unlike you, my eyes are wide open.
>
> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/uwb-new-wireless-technology-could-nightmare-privacy-alexander-leschik
> "it is important to be aware of the potential privacy implications of UWB"

"Potential". Show the proof that anyone can track all iPhones in their
vicinity through UWB, please.

> https://medium.com/@orlandonhoward/the-silent-advent-of-uwb-technology-and-its-implications-for-privacy-6114fb2da0d3
> "The proliferation of UWB in cell phones enables scenarios where the
> locations and movements of every person with a UWB device can be precisely
> tracked with UWB sensors mounted in inconspicuous places."

From the same article:

"Apple perceived the privacy threats of its AirTags and implemented
several measures to prevent stalking using the tags. They “have unique
Bluetooth identifiers that frequently rotate to ensure you’re not
tracked from place to place.” Location data and history are also not
stored on the devices. They’re linked to a person’s Apple ID‌ that
no one else can track."

No reason to believe Apple isn't doing the same with all of their
UWB-enabled devices.

> https://freedom-to-tinker.com/2019/12/21/every-move-you-make-ill-be-watching-you-privacy-implications-of-the-apple-u1-chip-and-ultra-wideband/
> "What makes the current generation of UWB chips stand out is that for the
> first time they will be deployed in mobile phones, which for a lot of
> people is an inseparable part of their daily routine. While it is promoted
> by Apple as just another sensor to "Share. Find. Play. More precisely than
> ever," this technology has the power to disrupt existing societal norms.
> Suddenly businesses will be able to track an individual's location within
> their stores down to the centimeter, which gives them the power to track
> which products you look at in real-time. Similar to the debated facial
> recognition technology, UWB localization offers a new capability to capture
> and ultimately profile identities of a user. Essentially, the new chip is a
> marketer's dream in a box. Shops already track your purchases, leading to
> cases like the infamous 2012 case where Target unintentionally divulged a
> teen's pregnancy to her father. When a store has UWB-enabled access points,
> it will be easy to monitor a phone's location indoors and track what you
> considered purchasing in addition to what you actually purchase."

That's a lot of conjecture. Where's the evidence of these claims?

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On 2024-04-23, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:
> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> On 2024-04-20 18:49, Cameo wrote:
>>> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2024-04-19 16:34, Cameo wrote:
>>>>> Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I
>>>>> haven't found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?
>>>>
>>>> As other point out, it's either on or off depending on Airplane
>>>> mode.
>>>>
>>>> UWB (in iPhones, etc.) is an Apple feature for high data rate
>>>> transfers and ranging functions. It's sort of a "back office"
>>>> function that the user doesn't need to worry about much.
>>>>
>>>> (To date it's not clear to me if it's actually used for data
>>>> transfer in Apple devices).
>>>
>>> That’s it: how do I know UWB is on? I have a feeling Android phones
>>> show it with little icon on the top 5 mm of the screen the way they
>>> used to indicate if 3G or 4G/LTE was being used. Apple likes to keep
>>> us in the dark, sp it seems.
>>
>> I don't know about Android in this sense but I'd be very surprised.
>> This is a "back office" function.
>>
>> If the phone has it (see model no.) and you're not in Airplane Mode,
>> then it is on.
>
> Then it’s on … Provided that the network provider has a near antenna
> to broadcast UWB. We need to see some indication of that

We need to see evidence that iPhones are actually being tracked through
UWB as well.

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On 4/23/2024 7:06 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-04-23 12:52, Cameo wrote:
>> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>> On 2024-04-20 18:49, Cameo wrote:
>>>> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-04-19 16:34, Cameo wrote:
>>>>>> Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
>>>>>> found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?
>>>>>
>>>>> As other point out, it's either on or off depending on Airplane mode.
>>>>>
>>>>> UWB (in iPhones, etc.) is an Apple feature for high data rate
>>>>> transfers
>>>>> and ranging functions.  It's sort of a "back office" function that the
>>>>> user doesn't need to worry about much.
>>>>>
>>>>> (To date it's not clear to me if it's actually used for data
>>>>> transfer in
>>>>> Apple devices).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That’s it: how do I know UWB is on? I have a feeling Android phones
>>>> show it
>>>> with little icon on the top 5 mm  of the screen the way they used to
>>>> indicate if 3G or 4G/LTE was being used. Apple likes to keep us in the
>>>> dark, sp it seems.
>>>
>>> I don't know about Android in this sense but I'd be very surprised.
>>> This is a "back office" function.
>>>
>>> If the phone has it (see model no.) and you're not in Airplane Mode,
>>> then it is on.
>>
>> Then it’s on … Provided that the network provider has a near antenna to
>> broadcast UWB. We need to see some indication of that so we can see the
>> difference in data speed when it exists and when it does not.
>
> Do we?
>
I do. Because inquiring minds want to know.

On 2024-04-23 21:05, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2024-04-23, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:
>> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>> On 2024-04-20 18:49, Cameo wrote:
>>>> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-04-19 16:34, Cameo wrote:
>>>>>> Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I
>>>>>> haven't found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?
>>>>>
>>>>> As other point out, it's either on or off depending on Airplane
>>>>> mode.
>>>>>
>>>>> UWB (in iPhones, etc.) is an Apple feature for high data rate
>>>>> transfers and ranging functions. It's sort of a "back office"
>>>>> function that the user doesn't need to worry about much.
>>>>>
>>>>> (To date it's not clear to me if it's actually used for data
>>>>> transfer in Apple devices).
>>>>
>>>> That’s it: how do I know UWB is on? I have a feeling Android phones
>>>> show it with little icon on the top 5 mm of the screen the way they
>>>> used to indicate if 3G or 4G/LTE was being used. Apple likes to keep
>>>> us in the dark, sp it seems.
>>>
>>> I don't know about Android in this sense but I'd be very surprised.
>>> This is a "back office" function.
>>>
>>> If the phone has it (see model no.) and you're not in Airplane Mode,
>>> then it is on.
>>
>> Then it’s on … Provided that the network provider has a near antenna
>> to broadcast UWB. We need to see some indication of that
>
> We need to see evidence that iPhones are actually being tracked through
> UWB as well.

Yep - the only thing that comes to mind is Apple physical stores might
get all excited if you came by - but being Apple the experience would be
integrated with the visit and sale experience in some seamless manner -
an evolution of the existing Apple Store App where you scan you own
purchases with your own phone and then walk out.

--
“Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first;
nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.”
- Charles de Gaulle.

On 2024-04-24 07:43, Cameo wrote:
> On 4/23/2024 7:06 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2024-04-23 12:52, Cameo wrote:

>>> Then it’s on … Provided that the network provider has a near antenna to
>>> broadcast UWB. We need to see some indication of that so we can see the
>>> difference in data speed when it exists and when it does not.
>>
>> Do we?
>>
> I do. Because inquiring minds want to know.

Conditions:
some network provider with broadcast UWB - which is not even a "thing"
as far as I can tell.
some indication that it's "doing something".
some comparative of data speed (you mean rate, but let's not quibble*)
from some non existent state v. a state that is not known to exist.

"Inquiring minds want to know" is the motto of the National Enquirer.

Hmm - not the best reference...

*Yeah, not quibbling on usenet - what's the matter with me?

--
“Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first;
nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.”
- Charles de Gaulle.

On 2024-04-24, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2024-04-23, Nick Cine <nickcine@is.invalid> wrote:
>> On 22 Apr 2024 22:54:15 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>
>>>> Open your eyes this time.
>>>
>>> Unlike you, my eyes are wide open.
>>
>> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/uwb-new-wireless-technology-could-nightmare-privacy-alexander-leschik
>> "it is important to be aware of the potential privacy implications of UWB"
>
> "Potential". Show the proof that anyone can track all iPhones in their
> vicinity through UWB, please.
>
>> https://medium.com/@orlandonhoward/the-silent-advent-of-uwb-technology-and-its-implications-for-privacy-6114fb2da0d3
>> "The proliferation of UWB in cell phones enables scenarios where the
>> locations and movements of every person with a UWB device can be precisely
>> tracked with UWB sensors mounted in inconspicuous places."
>
> From the same article:
>
> "Apple perceived the privacy threats of its AirTags and implemented
> several measures to prevent stalking using the tags. They “have unique
> Bluetooth identifiers that frequently rotate to ensure you’re not
> tracked from place to place.” Location data and history are also not
> stored on the devices. They’re linked to a person’s Apple ID‌ that
> no one else can track."
>
> No reason to believe Apple isn't doing the same with all of their
> UWB-enabled devices.
>
>> https://freedom-to-tinker.com/2019/12/21/every-move-you-make-ill-be-watching-you-privacy-implications-of-the-apple-u1-chip-and-ultra-wideband/
>> "What makes the current generation of UWB chips stand out is that for the
>> first time they will be deployed in mobile phones, which for a lot of
>> people is an inseparable part of their daily routine. While it is promoted
>> by Apple as just another sensor to "Share. Find. Play. More precisely than
>> ever," this technology has the power to disrupt existing societal norms.
>> Suddenly businesses will be able to track an individual's location within
>> their stores down to the centimeter, which gives them the power to track
>> which products you look at in real-time. Similar to the debated facial
>> recognition technology, UWB localization offers a new capability to capture
>> and ultimately profile identities of a user. Essentially, the new chip is a
>> marketer's dream in a box. Shops already track your purchases, leading to
>> cases like the infamous 2012 case where Target unintentionally divulged a
>> teen's pregnancy to her father. When a store has UWB-enabled access points,
>> it will be easy to monitor a phone's location indoors and track what you
>> considered purchasing in addition to what you actually purchase."
>
> That's a lot of conjecture. Where's the evidence of these claims?

....crickets...

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On 4/24/2024 11:17 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-04-24 07:43, Cameo wrote:
>> On 4/23/2024 7:06 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2024-04-23 12:52, Cameo wrote:
>
>>>> Then it’s on … Provided that the network provider has a near antenna to
>>>> broadcast UWB. We need to see some indication of that so we can see the
>>>> difference in data speed when it exists and when it does not.
>>>
>>> Do we?
>>>
>> I do. Because inquiring minds want to know.
>
> Conditions:
> some network provider with broadcast UWB - which is not even a "thing"
> as far as I can tell.
> some indication that it's "doing something".
> some comparative of data speed (you mean rate, but let's not quibble*)
> from some non existent state v. a state that is not known to exist.
>
> "Inquiring minds want to know" is the motto of the National Enquirer.
>
> Hmm - not the best reference...
>
But it doesn't make itt less true.

On 20 Apr 2024 21:23:42 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

> On 2024-04-20, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> On 2024-04-20 10:02, Oliver wrote:
>>> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 22:34:28 +0200, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote
>>>> Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
>>>> found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?
>>>
>>>   "Because UWB's
>>
>> Arlen is like rust. Never sleeps. No added value.
>
> Yup. Just lame.

Y N

On 2024-05-06, TChan <here@in.valid> wrote:
> On 20 Apr 2024 21:23:42 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>> On 2024-04-20, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>> On 2024-04-20 10:02, Oliver wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 22:34:28 +0200, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote
>>>>> Supposedly the new iPhones have the new UWB built in, but I haven't
>>>>> found it anywhere in the Setup. Anybody has?
>>>>
>>>>   "Because UWB's
>>>
>>> Arlen is like rust. Never sleeps. No added value.
>>
>> Yup. Just lame.
>
> Y N

Triggered much? 🤣

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