Not strictly a Linux topic, but....

So I've used GNU Autotools for many many years (like since 2006 maybe?). But
for new project I decided to go with Meson. I had another look at CMake, but
it's still a little too grotesque for me, although the Qt project has switched
from qmake to cmake. (Meson also supports cmake to some extent, as I understand
it.)

Meson is not quite as complex as autotools, though it has its own learning
curve. It is fairly well documented and the project seems responsive to user
requests. For example, I put in a request to provide an alternative to
meson_options.txt so that one could use /etc/DIRCOLOR to highlight this
configuration file, and it was implemented as meson.options in version 1.1.

So I've currently got two git projects on my in-house "server" (this ASUS
laptop), and I have figured out how to use one project as a Meson subproject
for the other project, referring to the git repository of the other:

[wrap-git]
url = ssh://usr@server/srv/git/other_project.git
revision = head
depth = 1

Anyway, builds are *fast*, and switching between GNU C++ and Clang++ is easy.

As for converting my big app project from autotools to meson... too daunting
for now.

--
The ripest fruit falls first.
-- William Shakespeare, "Richard II"

Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote at 12:38 this Tuesday (GMT):
> Not strictly a Linux topic, but....
>
> So I've used GNU Autotools for many many years (like since 2006 maybe?). But
> for new project I decided to go with Meson. I had another look at CMake, but
> it's still a little too grotesque for me, although the Qt project has switched
> from qmake to cmake. (Meson also supports cmake to some extent, as I understand
> it.)
>
> Meson is not quite as complex as autotools, though it has its own learning
> curve. It is fairly well documented and the project seems responsive to user
> requests. For example, I put in a request to provide an alternative to
> meson_options.txt so that one could use /etc/DIRCOLOR to highlight this
> configuration file, and it was implemented as meson.options in version 1.1.
>
> So I've currently got two git projects on my in-house "server" (this ASUS
> laptop), and I have figured out how to use one project as a Meson subproject
> for the other project, referring to the git repository of the other:
>
> [wrap-git]
> url = ssh://usr@server/srv/git/other_project.git
> revision = head
> depth = 1
>
> Anyway, builds are *fast*, and switching between GNU C++ and Clang++ is easy.
>
> As for converting my big app project from autotools to meson... too daunting
> for now.

Neat, I haven't heard about meson before! I tried CMake, but it is
horrible to use. I'm currently trying to learn the zig build system, but
meson looks pretty cool!
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

candycanearter07 wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote at 12:38 this Tuesday (GMT):
>> Not strictly a Linux topic, but....
>>
>> So I've used GNU Autotools for many many years (like since 2006 maybe?). But
>> for new project I decided to go with Meson. I had another look at CMake, but
>> it's still a little too grotesque for me, although the Qt project has switched
>> from qmake to cmake. (Meson also supports cmake to some extent, as I understand
>> it.)
>>
>> Meson is not quite as complex as autotools, though it has its own learning
>> curve. It is fairly well documented and the project seems responsive to user
>> requests. For example, I put in a request to provide an alternative to
>> meson_options.txt so that one could use /etc/DIRCOLOR to highlight this
>> configuration file, and it was implemented as meson.options in version 1.1.
>>
>> So I've currently got two git projects on my in-house "server" (this ASUS
>> laptop), and I have figured out how to use one project as a Meson subproject
>> for the other project, referring to the git repository of the other:
>>
>> [wrap-git]
>> url = ssh://usr@server/srv/git/other_project.git
>> revision = head
>> depth = 1
>>
>> Anyway, builds are *fast*, and switching between GNU C++ and Clang++ is easy.
>>
>> As for converting my big app project from autotools to meson... too daunting
>> for now.
>
> Neat, I haven't heard about meson before! I tried CMake, but it is
> horrible to use. I'm currently trying to learn the zig build system, but
> meson looks pretty cool!

It has its own complexities, and it took me awhile to halfway understand it.
I think GNOME uses it, and GIMP is converting to it.

https://mesonbuild.com/Users.html

--
You look tired.

On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 08:38:57 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> Not strictly a Linux topic, but....
>

Yes, it is.

>
> So I've used GNU Autotools for many many years (like since 2006 maybe?). But
> for new project I decided to go with Meson.
>

I program only for myself and not for any grubbing corporation.
Thus, my projects can get by with just GNU Make.

But my personal projects often use bash to unite various C programs
into a coherent whole. That is beyond the scope of any build
system like autotools or cmake.

Also, I am beginning to consider Tk/Tcl as a graphical alternative
to bash. A great aid in development is vtcl:

https://vtcl.sourceforge.net/

Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote at 19:32 this Tuesday (GMT):
> On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 08:38:57 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>> Not strictly a Linux topic, but....
>>
>
> Yes, it is.
>
>
>>
>> So I've used GNU Autotools for many many years (like since 2006 maybe?). But
>> for new project I decided to go with Meson.
>>
>
> I program only for myself and not for any grubbing corporation.
> Thus, my projects can get by with just GNU Make.
>
> But my personal projects often use bash to unite various C programs
> into a coherent whole. That is beyond the scope of any build
> system like autotools or cmake.

Fair enough, if you're not planning to share it or have non-linux users
using it.

> Also, I am beginning to consider Tk/Tcl as a graphical alternative
> to bash. A great aid in development is vtcl:
>
> https://vtcl.sourceforge.net/

--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote at 16:41 this Tuesday (GMT):
> candycanearter07 wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote at 12:38 this Tuesday (GMT):
>>> Not strictly a Linux topic, but....
>>>
>>> So I've used GNU Autotools for many many years (like since 2006 maybe?). But
>>> for new project I decided to go with Meson. I had another look at CMake, but
>>> it's still a little too grotesque for me, although the Qt project has switched
>>> from qmake to cmake. (Meson also supports cmake to some extent, as I understand
>>> it.)
>>>
>>> Meson is not quite as complex as autotools, though it has its own learning
>>> curve. It is fairly well documented and the project seems responsive to user
>>> requests. For example, I put in a request to provide an alternative to
>>> meson_options.txt so that one could use /etc/DIRCOLOR to highlight this
>>> configuration file, and it was implemented as meson.options in version 1.1.
>>>
>>> So I've currently got two git projects on my in-house "server" (this ASUS
>>> laptop), and I have figured out how to use one project as a Meson subproject
>>> for the other project, referring to the git repository of the other:
>>>
>>> [wrap-git]
>>> url = ssh://usr@server/srv/git/other_project.git
>>> revision = head
>>> depth = 1
>>>
>>> Anyway, builds are *fast*, and switching between GNU C++ and Clang++ is easy.
>>>
>>> As for converting my big app project from autotools to meson... too daunting
>>> for now.
>>
>> Neat, I haven't heard about meson before! I tried CMake, but it is
>> horrible to use. I'm currently trying to learn the zig build system, but
>> meson looks pretty cool!
>
> It has its own complexities, and it took me awhile to halfway understand it.
> I think GNOME uses it, and GIMP is converting to it.
>
> https://mesonbuild.com/Users.html

Cool!
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

Farley Flud wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 08:38:57 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>> Not strictly a Linux topic, but....
>
> Yes, it is.
>
>> So I've used GNU Autotools for many many years (like since 2006 maybe?). But
>> for new project I decided to go with Meson.
>
> I program only for myself and not for any grubbing corporation.
> Thus, my projects can get by with just GNU Make.

Heh heh. All of my personal projects have hitherto used GNU Autotools.
A blend of autoconf, autoheader, automake, libtool and libtoolize, and of
course some m4 macros.

For one of them, I also added a qmake build process, which turned out to
be useful for building in Windows and in FreeBSD.

> But my personal projects often use bash to unite various C programs
> into a coherent whole. That is beyond the scope of any build
> system like autotools or cmake.

You are the King of Brute Force!

> Also, I am beginning to consider Tk/Tcl as a graphical alternative
> to bash. A great aid in development is vtcl:
>
> https://vtcl.sourceforge.net/

Cripes, the 8.6 version is 8 years old!

--
The Least Perceptive Literary Critic

On 3/19/2024 3:32 PM, Lameass Larry wrote:

> https://vtcl.sourceforge.net/

From the horse's mouth: "Tcl is a very simple programming language."

And simple programming is your speed.

On 3/19/2024 3:32 PM, Programming Putz Piet wrote:

> I program only for myself and not for any grubbing corporation.

I know why.

On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 19:32:42 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:

> Also, I am beginning to consider Tk/Tcl as a graphical alternative to
> bash.

You know you can can use Tk from Python via the “tkinter” module, right?
No need to suffer with a language that doesn’t even have arrays as first-
class objects.

On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 08:38:57 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> (Meson also supports cmake to some extent, as I understand it.)

CMake is what I call a “meta-build” system. It generates control files for
lower-level build systems, like Make, Ninja, Visual Studio, or XCode.

Isn’t Meson at a similar level? It needs to generate control files for the
actual build system? I believe it is commonly paired with Ninja.

On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 23:54:12 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <utd8j4$13kf4$3@dont-email.me>:

> On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 19:32:42 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:
>
>> Also, I am beginning to consider Tk/Tcl as a graphical alternative to
>> bash.
>
> You know you can can use Tk from Python via the “tkinter” module, right?
> No need to suffer with a language that doesn’t even have arrays as
> first- class objects.

There's also Tk for perl.

--
-v

Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 08:38:57 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>> (Meson also supports cmake to some extent, as I understand it.)
>
> CMake is what I call a “meta-build” system. It generates control files for
> lower-level build systems, like Make, Ninja, Visual Studio, or XCode.
>
> Isn’t Meson at a similar level? It needs to generate control files for the
> actual build system? I believe it is commonly paired with Ninja.

You are quite correct.

--
You are so boring that when I see you my feet go to sleep.

Le 19-03-2024, Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> a écrit :
>
> I program

:)))))))))))))))))))))))

> But my personal projects often use bash to unite various C programs
> into a coherent whole. That is beyond the scope of any build
> system like autotools or cmake.

That's a good one too. Thanks for the laugh.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

Le 19-03-2024, candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> a écrit :
> Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote at 19:32 this Tuesday (GMT):
>>
>> I program only for myself and not for any grubbing corporation.
>> Thus, my projects can get by with just GNU Make.
>>
>> But my personal projects often use bash to unite various C programs
>> into a coherent whole. That is beyond the scope of any build
>> system like autotools or cmake.
>
> Fair enough, if you're not planning to share it or have non-linux users
> using it.

You really believe he's able to program something too complex to be
handled by regular tools? Something which work I mean. Not something
he's dreaming of.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

Le 19-03-2024, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> a écrit :
> On 3/19/2024 3:32 PM, Lameass Larry wrote:
>
>
>> https://vtcl.sourceforge.net/
>
> From the horse's mouth: "Tcl is a very simple programming language."
>
> And simple programming is your speed.

You are nice to him with this one. Because you imply he programs.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

Le 19-03-2024, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> a écrit :
> On 3/19/2024 3:32 PM, Programming Putz Piet wrote:
>
>
>> I program only for myself and not for any grubbing corporation.
>
> I know why.

Let say everyone knows why for the second part. No one believes in the
first part.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote at 09:09 this Saturday (GMT):
> Le 19-03-2024, candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> a écrit :
>> Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote at 19:32 this Tuesday (GMT):
>>>
>>> I program only for myself and not for any grubbing corporation.
>>> Thus, my projects can get by with just GNU Make.
>>>
>>> But my personal projects often use bash to unite various C programs
>>> into a coherent whole. That is beyond the scope of any build
>>> system like autotools or cmake.
>>
>> Fair enough, if you're not planning to share it or have non-linux users
>> using it.
>
> You really believe he's able to program something too complex to be
> handled by regular tools? Something which work I mean. Not something
> he's dreaming of.

Either way, it's a good learning experience?
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom