Do you track the current kernel on https://kernel.org ?

If so, how often do you update?

I ask because seems like day-before-yesterday that I updated
to 6.8.0 -- but already, current version is 6.8.1.

Just grabbed the patch for 6.8.1, and it appears to add a mitigation
for a vulnerability that I'm not likely to trigger, so I guess
I'll skip that one.

(Note that I download and build the kernel on my own, unlike
Gentoo distro lackey Furled Fleb.)

--
-v

On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 06:17:21 -0000 (UTC), vallor wrote:

> Do you track the current kernel on https://kernel.org ?
>
> If so, how often do you update?
>

I update for each major release, i.e. 6.X.Y, just the
"X" and not the "Y."

Of course, everything that directly uses the kernel, such
as nvidia, must also be rebuilt.

Thus, new kernel headers need to be installed.

IMO, the kernel release cycle is too short. They should
release once a year instead of every three months.

On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 06:17:21 +0000, vallor wrote:

>
> Just grabbed the patch for 6.8.1, and it appears to add a mitigation for
> a vulnerability that I'm not likely to trigger, so I guess I'll skip
> that one.
>

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha! Yet another vulnerability pops up -- and
they'll keep popping up until hell freezes over.

There is a small but definitely palpable performance hit:

https://www.phoronix.com/review/intel-rfds-performance

But when added to all the dozens of other small but palpable performance
hits the cumulative degradation becomes BIG.

Gotta always watch out for that "malicious user-space software" that
is ALWAYS, and I mean ALWAYS, clawing and scratching its way into your
system.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

Anyone who believes that crap is ripe for a straight jacket.

On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 07:37:42 +0000, Lester Thorpe wrote:

> IMO, the kernel release cycle is too short. They should
> release once a year instead of every three months.

That would make for bigger, less stable releases.

On 2024-03-18, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
> Do you track the current kernel on https://kernel.org ?
>
> If so, how often do you update?
>
> I ask because seems like day-before-yesterday that I updated
> to 6.8.0 -- but already, current version is 6.8.1.
>
> Just grabbed the patch for 6.8.1, and it appears to add a mitigation
> for a vulnerability that I'm not likely to trigger, so I guess
> I'll skip that one.
>
> (Note that I download and build the kernel on my own, unlike
> Gentoo distro lackey Furled Fleb.)
>

I manually build my own kernel, firstly because I wanted to wring
every bit of performance back in the early 2000s, when it did matter,
a little, and later to use Con Kolivas's patch, and to "fix" the
emu10k driver. Con's patch is no longer available, so there isn't
much point in compiling my own kernel, but I still do.

I check every month or two, and if there is a major release AND there
is a change which interests me (usually in filesystems), I'll update.
Otherwise I'll just leave it be.

Le 18-03-2024, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> a écrit :
> Do you track the current kernel on https://kernel.org ?

No.

> Note that I download and build the kernel on my own,

What for? I haven't done it in decades. It was mandatory 30 years ago,
but not anymore.

I update it something like once a week and it's done effortlessly. I can
imagine some reasons to do it, but not for a normal usage of a computer.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

On 22 Mar 2024 21:45:54 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote
in <65fdfc12$0$7522$426a34cc@news.free.fr>:

> Le 18-03-2024, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> a écrit :
>> Do you track the current kernel on https://kernel.org ?
>
> No.
>
>> Note that I download and build the kernel on my own,
>
> What for? I haven't done it in decades. It was mandatory 30 years ago,
> but not anymore.
>
> I update it something like once a week and it's done effortlessly. I can
> imagine some reasons to do it, but not for a normal usage of a computer.

Because I'm curious.

I don't _have_ to do it, I'm just interested in systems. Being
mostly retired, I can go back to looking at the things that
used to interest me. I'm not a typical user.

So, I'm sitting at Linux 6.8.0 for now, as the new feature for
6.8.1 doesn't apply to me -- and the NVidia driver it seems
to require isn't as performant as my current driver.[*] (I need
the performance for both _Starfield_ and _Elite Dangerous Odyssey_.)

[*] YMMV

--
-v

Le 23-03-2024, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> a écrit :
> On 22 Mar 2024 21:45:54 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote
> in <65fdfc12$0$7522$426a34cc@news.free.fr>:
>
>> Le 18-03-2024, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> a écrit :
>>> Note that I download and build the kernel on my own,
>>
>> What for? I haven't done it in decades. It was mandatory 30 years ago,
>> but not anymore.
>>
>> I update it something like once a week and it's done effortlessly. I can
>> imagine some reasons to do it, but not for a normal usage of a computer.
>
> Because I'm curious.

I'm not sure I really understand. To download and build the kernel on
your own to learn is worth enough by itself. It's a good idea, I have
nothing to object. But if that means you won't update it because the
effort isn't worth the gain, it's not the same thing. Either you update
it to continue your learning path or you switch back to the kernel once
you understand it. Of course, it's your own computer, you do what you
want but I'm not sure I understand what you want.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

On 24 Mar 2024 10:27:18 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote
in <66000006$0$5287$426a74cc@news.free.fr>:

> Le 23-03-2024, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> a écrit :
>> On 22 Mar 2024 21:45:54 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr>
>> wrote in <65fdfc12$0$7522$426a34cc@news.free.fr>:
>>
>>> Le 18-03-2024, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> a écrit :
>>>> Note that I download and build the kernel on my own,
>>>
>>> What for? I haven't done it in decades. It was mandatory 30 years ago,
>>> but not anymore.
>>>
>>> I update it something like once a week and it's done effortlessly. I
>>> can imagine some reasons to do it, but not for a normal usage of a
>>> computer.
>>
>> Because I'm curious.
>
> I'm not sure I really understand.

I'm not incurious.

> To download and build the kernel on
> your own to learn is worth enough by itself. It's a good idea, I have
> nothing to object. But if that means you won't update it because the
> effort isn't worth the gain, it's not the same thing.

Who says I won't update it? I'm just happy running the current
"mainline" kernel, and not the very latest.

> Either you update
> it to continue your learning path or you switch back to the kernel once
> you understand it. Of course, it's your own computer, you do what you
> want but I'm not sure I understand what you want.

I want both the source of the OS I'm currently running, as well
as running the latest kernel. I also get a kick out of running
"make -j 16" on the Linux sources on this system, which
has 64 hyperthread cores.

(I limit the parallel builds to 16 because I build Linux
using storage on my 10G-attached NAS.)

BTW, building a kernel and then adding the NVidia binary-blob
driver isn't a new thing for me -- used to do it all the time
on Fedora. Then I lost interest. Have recently regained interest
because...I'm not incurious.

I also sometimes give back to the community:

I used to contribute to the Hauppauge(sp?) hdpvr driver. I also
once helped fix arp. I also once did a "git bisect" on Linux to
find a regression. The beauty of Linux is that anybody with some
ability can contribute to making the system better.

It is the spirit of "ubuntu" -- not the distribution, but the
concept the distro was named after.

--
-v

On 3/24/2024 10:23 PM, vallor wrote:
> On 24 Mar 2024 10:27:18 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote
> in <66000006$0$5287$426a74cc@news.free.fr>:
>
>> Le 23-03-2024, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> a écrit :
>>>
>>> Because I'm curious.
>>
>> I'm not sure I really understand.
>
> I'm not incurious.

C AND I = F
C AND !I = T
!C AND I = T
!C AND !I = F

On Mon, 25 Mar 2024 08:42:43 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
<utrrg3$13cl2$1@dont-email.me>:

> On 3/24/2024 10:23 PM, vallor wrote:
>> On 24 Mar 2024 10:27:18 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote
>> in <66000006$0$5287$426a74cc@news.free.fr>:
>>
>>> Le 23-03-2024, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> Because I'm curious.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure I really understand.
>>
>> I'm not incurious.
>
> C AND I = F
> C AND !I = T
> !C AND I = T
> !C AND !I = F

A "tetralemma of curiosity"? What does it mean?

Meanwhile, what about Linux?

ObLinux: the dict(1) command:

$ dict incurious
3 definitions found

From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 [gcide]:

Incurious \In*cu"ri*ous\, a. [L. incuriosus: cf. F. incurieux.
See {In-} not, and {Curious}.]
Not curious or inquisitive; without care for or interest in;
inattentive; careless; negligent; heedless.
[1913 Webster]

Carelessnesses and incurious deportments toward their
children. --Jer. Taylor.
[1913 Webster]

From WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006) [wn]:

incurious
adj 1: showing absence of intellectual inquisitiveness or
natural curiosity; "strangely incurious about the cause
of the political upheaval surrounding them" [ant:
{curious}]

From Moby Thesaurus II by Grady Ward, 1.0 [moby-thesaurus]:

61 Moby Thesaurus words for "incurious":
absent, absentminded, abstracted, aloof, apathetic, ataractic,
blase, bored, careless, casual, detached, devil-may-care,
disinterested, dispassionate, disregardant, disregardful, distant,
distracted, distrait, distraught, easygoing, heedless, impassive,
inadvertent, inattentive, indifferent, inexcitable, inobservant,
insouciant, lackadaisical, listless, mindless, negligent,
nonchalant, perfunctory, phlegmatic, pococurante, preoccupied,
reckless, regardless, remote, stolid, thoughtless, turned-off,
unanxious, unconcerned, undiscriminating, unheedful, unheeding,
uninquiring, uninterested, uninvolved, unmarking, unmindful,
unnoticing, unnoting, unobservant, unobserving, unremarking,
unsolicitous, withdrawn

_ _ _ _ _ _ _

Linux is an opportunity for the curious: if you want to know why
the OS acts in a certain way, it's nice to be able to refer
to the source code of the running kernel.

(Let me know if you'd like an example.)

--
-v

On 3/25/2024 4:30 PM, vallor wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Mar 2024 08:42:43 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
> <utrrg3$13cl2$1@dont-email.me>:
>
>> On 3/24/2024 10:23 PM, vallor wrote:
>>> On 24 Mar 2024 10:27:18 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote
>>> in <66000006$0$5287$426a74cc@news.free.fr>:
>>>
>>>> Le 23-03-2024, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>> Because I'm curious.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure I really understand.
>>>
>>> I'm not incurious.
>>
>> C AND I = F
>> C AND !I = T
>> !C AND I = T
>> !C AND !I = F
>
> A "tetralemma of curiosity"? What does it mean?

It was supposed to be a truth table of sorts.

Can you be:

Curious and Incurious? False
Curious and Not Incurious? True
Not Curious and Incurious? True
Not Curious and Not Incurious? False

> Meanwhile, what about Linux?
>
> ObLinux: the dict(1) command:
>
> $ dict incurious
> 3 definitions found
>
> From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 [gcide]:
>
> Incurious \In*cu"ri*ous\, a. [L. incuriosus: cf. F. incurieux.
> See {In-} not, and {Curious}.]
> Not curious or inquisitive; without care for or interest in;
> inattentive; careless; negligent; heedless.
> [1913 Webster]
>
> Carelessnesses and incurious deportments toward their
> children. --Jer. Taylor.
> [1913 Webster]
>
> From WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006) [wn]:
>
> incurious
> adj 1: showing absence of intellectual inquisitiveness or
> natural curiosity; "strangely incurious about the cause
> of the political upheaval surrounding them" [ant:
> {curious}]
>
> From Moby Thesaurus II by Grady Ward, 1.0 [moby-thesaurus]:
>
> 61 Moby Thesaurus words for "incurious":
> absent, absentminded, abstracted, aloof, apathetic, ataractic,
> blase, bored, careless, casual, detached, devil-may-care,
> disinterested, dispassionate, disregardant, disregardful, distant,
> distracted, distrait, distraught, easygoing, heedless, impassive,
> inadvertent, inattentive, indifferent, inexcitable, inobservant,
> insouciant, lackadaisical, listless, mindless, negligent,
> nonchalant, perfunctory, phlegmatic, pococurante, preoccupied,
> reckless, regardless, remote, stolid, thoughtless, turned-off,
> unanxious, unconcerned, undiscriminating, unheedful, unheeding,
> uninquiring, uninterested, uninvolved, unmarking, unmindful,
> unnoticing, unnoting, unobservant, unobserving, unremarking,
> unsolicitous, withdrawn

phlegmatic? Sounds loogie-ish.

> Linux is an opportunity for the curious: if you want to know why
> the OS acts in a certain way, it's nice to be able to refer
> to the source code of the running kernel.
>
> (Let me know if you'd like an example.)

I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you think you
can find the exact place(s) in the kernel source code that's responsible
for a given behavior.

On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 09:56:33 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
<utuk6f$1rf3k$2@dont-email.me>:

> On 3/25/2024 4:30 PM, vallor wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Mar 2024 08:42:43 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
>> <utrrg3$13cl2$1@dont-email.me>:
>>
>>> On 3/24/2024 10:23 PM, vallor wrote:
>>>> On 24 Mar 2024 10:27:18 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote
>>>> in <66000006$0$5287$426a74cc@news.free.fr>:
>>>>
>>>>> Le 23-03-2024, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> a écrit :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because I'm curious.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure I really understand.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not incurious.
>>>
>>> C AND I = F
>>> C AND !I = T
>>> !C AND I = T
>>> !C AND !I = F
>>
>> A "tetralemma of curiosity"? What does it mean?
>
>
> It was supposed to be a truth table of sorts.
>
> Can you be:
>
> Curious and Incurious? False
> Curious and Not Incurious? True
> Not Curious and Incurious? True
> Not Curious and Not Incurious? False
>
>
>> Meanwhile, what about Linux?
>>
>> ObLinux: the dict(1) command:
>>
>> $ dict incurious
>> 3 definitions found
>>
>> From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 [gcide]:
>>
>> Incurious \In*cu"ri*ous\, a. [L. incuriosus: cf. F. incurieux.
>> See {In-} not, and {Curious}.]
>> Not curious or inquisitive; without care for or interest in;
>> inattentive; careless; negligent; heedless.
>> [1913 Webster]
>>
>> Carelessnesses and incurious deportments toward their
>> children. --Jer. Taylor.
>> [1913 Webster]
>>
>> From WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006) [wn]:
>>
>> incurious
>> adj 1: showing absence of intellectual inquisitiveness or
>> natural curiosity; "strangely incurious about the cause
>> of the political upheaval surrounding them" [ant:
>> {curious}]
>>
>> From Moby Thesaurus II by Grady Ward, 1.0 [moby-thesaurus]:
>>
>> 61 Moby Thesaurus words for "incurious":
>> absent, absentminded, abstracted, aloof, apathetic, ataractic,
>> blase, bored, careless, casual, detached, devil-may-care,
>> disinterested, dispassionate, disregardant, disregardful, distant,
>> distracted, distrait, distraught, easygoing, heedless, impassive,
>> inadvertent, inattentive, indifferent, inexcitable, inobservant,
>> insouciant, lackadaisical, listless, mindless, negligent,
>> nonchalant, perfunctory, phlegmatic, pococurante, preoccupied,
>> reckless, regardless, remote, stolid, thoughtless, turned-off,
>> unanxious, unconcerned, undiscriminating, unheedful, unheeding,
>> uninquiring, uninterested, uninvolved, unmarking, unmindful,
>> unnoticing, unnoting, unobservant, unobserving, unremarking,
>> unsolicitous, withdrawn
>
>
> phlegmatic? Sounds loogie-ish.
>
>
>> Linux is an opportunity for the curious: if you want to know why
>> the OS acts in a certain way, it's nice to be able to refer
>> to the source code of the running kernel.
>>
>> (Let me know if you'd like an example.)
>
> I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you think you
> can find the exact place(s) in the kernel source code that's responsible
> for a given behavior.

Actually, they are laid-out in a hierarchy -- and the KConfig files
provide some documentation for each of the options.

Besides the items I mentioned before, I have in mind someone
who was trying to unput characters in a terminal from another
terminal session. Same username, but he was getting an error anyway.

Referring to the terminal driver, one could see that such activities
were disallowed from different controlling terminals -- as they should be, it's
a big security hole. It may have worked in the past, but it
doesn't work now:

linux-6.8/drivers/tty/tty_io.c:2289

if ((current->signal->tty != tty) && !capable(CAP_SYS_ADMIN))
return -EPERM;

This is in the tiocsti() function.

I suggest downloading the Linux sources and poking around in the
source hierarchy. I think you'll find it sensible.

BTW, I didn't find this originally to point out the futility
of what guy was attempting, but I knew generally where it
had to be, and a few greps later (as well as a trip to
"man ioctl_tty", I found exactly where the behavior
was specified.

--
-v