Systemd manages cgroups, among other things.

Farled Fur says he doesn't use systemd. Therefore,
he doesn't have an easy way to manage cgroups
to restrict his containers.

In fact, I don't think Furled Far can even build a container on
his "custom", cut-rate system. ENOTSUP.

"Here's a nickel kid, get yourself a real computer."

--
-v

On Sun, 3 Mar 2024 03:13:59 -0000 (UTC), vallor wrote:

> Systemd manages cgroups, among other things.

It provides a lot of useful things, like its unified logging system,
timers with capabilities beyond that of cron, and socket listeners with
capabilities beyond that of inetd or xinetd. It basically takes a fresh
look at a whole lot of “traditional” *nix facilities and reimagines them
in a much more powerful fashion.

Note that “containers” are not a predefined concept in Linux as such:
there are a number of different container facilities available in Linux,
all built in terms of cgroups and namespaces and all the other lower-level
infrastructure that Linux provides.

Docker is perhaps the best-known container system, and also the most
elaborate. There are simpler ones that are also easier to understand, like
systemd-nspawn and LXC.

You can even use more than one on the same Linux installation. And I think
containers-within-containers might even work, too.

On Sun, 3 Mar 2024 03:13:59 -0000 (UTC), vallor wrote:

> Systemd manages cgroups, among other things.
>

What use are cgroups on a standalone, desktop workstation?

Hint: Nothing.

>
> he doesn't use systemd. Therefore,
> he doesn't have an easy way to manage cgroups
> to restrict his containers.
>

What containers? I have no stinkin' containers.

Le 03-03-2024, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> a écrit :
> Systemd manages cgroups, among other things.
>
> Farled Fur says he doesn't use systemd. Therefore,
> he doesn't have an easy way to manage cgroups
> to restrict his containers.
>
> In fact, I don't think Furled Far can even build a container on
> his "custom", cut-rate system. ENOTSUP.
>
> "Here's a nickel kid, get yourself a real computer."

No, please. I didn't said I was out or arguments for systemd. It's way
funnier when FF/DG/LP/NV/FR/whatever gives himself arguments in favor of
systemd (like he did with bash). OK, for this one he would never had
been able to speak about it, but please, don't give other arguments he
could have hanged himself with. Please, don't break the toy, let it be
as funny as it can.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

vallor wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> Systemd manages cgroups, among other things.
>
> Farled Fur says he doesn't use systemd. Therefore,
> he doesn't have an easy way to manage cgroups
> to restrict his containers.
>
> In fact, I don't think Furled Far can even build a container on
> his "custom", cut-rate system. ENOTSUP.
>
> "Here's a nickel kid, get yourself a real computer."

My Bible:

https://man7.org/tlpi/

The Linux Programming Interface (published in October 2010, No Starch
Press, ISBN 978-1-59327-220-3) is a detailed guide and reference for Linux
and UNIX system programming.

With 1552 pages, 115 diagrams, 88 tables, nearly 200 example programs, and
over 200 exercises, TLPI is the most comprehensive description of Linux
and UNIX system programming available.

--
Tell the truth or trump--but get the trick.
-- Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar"

On Sun, 3 Mar 2024 10:25:21 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us>
wrote in <us24p1$2i1ku$3@dont-email.me>:

> vallor wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> Systemd manages cgroups, among other things.
>>
>> Farled Fur says he doesn't use systemd. Therefore,
>> he doesn't have an easy way to manage cgroups to restrict his
>> containers.
>>
>> In fact, I don't think Furled Far can even build a container on his
>> "custom", cut-rate system. ENOTSUP.
>>
>> "Here's a nickel kid, get yourself a real computer."
>
> My Bible:
>
> https://man7.org/tlpi/
>
> The Linux Programming Interface (published in October 2010, No
> Starch Press, ISBN 978-1-59327-220-3) is a detailed guide and
> reference for Linux and UNIX system programming.
>
> With 1552 pages, 115 diagrams, 88 tables, nearly 200 example
> programs, and over 200 exercises, TLPI is the most comprehensive
> description of Linux and UNIX system programming available.

Thank you for the pointer(!), but what does that have to
do with cgroups?

$ man cgroups

--
-v

On 03 Mar 2024 13:06:58 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote
in <65e475f2$0$6438$426a74cc@news.free.fr>:

> Le 03-03-2024, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> a écrit :
>> Systemd manages cgroups, among other things.
>>
>> Farled Fur says he doesn't use systemd. Therefore,
>> he doesn't have an easy way to manage cgroups to restrict his
>> containers.
>>
>> In fact, I don't think Furled Far can even build a container on his
>> "custom", cut-rate system. ENOTSUP.
>>
>> "Here's a nickel kid, get yourself a real computer."
>
> No, please. I didn't said I was out or arguments for systemd. It's way
> funnier when FF/DG/LP/NV/FR/whatever gives himself arguments in favor of
> systemd (like he did with bash). OK, for this one he would never had
> been able to speak about it, but please, don't give other arguments he
> could have hanged himself with. Please, don't break the toy, let it be
> as funny as it can.

He'll just dig a deeper hole.

(He already did with fvwm.)

--
-v

On Sun, 3 Mar 2024 10:25:21 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> The Linux Programming Interface (published in October 2010, No
> Starch Press, ISBN 978-1-59327-220-3) is a detailed guide and
> reference for Linux and UNIX system programming.

https://lwn.net/Kernel/LDD3/

This is the web site for the Third Edition of Linux Device Drivers, by
Jonathan Corbet, Alessandro Rubini, and Greg Kroah-Hartman. For the
moment, only the finish

I've got the very obsolete hardcopy version (2005) on my bookshelf along
with some other really dated landfill candidates.

On Sun, 03 Mar 2024 10:18:50 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:

> What use are cgroups on a standalone, desktop workstation?

Try this command on your system:

ls -l /sys/fs/cgroup

On mine, I currently have 35 entries.

What are yours being used for?

On Sun, 3 Mar 2024 20:01:43 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

>
> Try this command on your system:
>
> ls -l /sys/fs/cgroup
>

[~]# ls /sys/fs
ext4 pstore

Sorry. No cgroups.

That's because my kernel is configured to not include cgroups.

Why have something that's neither needed nor desired?

Any other stupid questions?

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 20:01 this Sunday (GMT):
> On Sun, 03 Mar 2024 10:18:50 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:
>
>> What use are cgroups on a standalone, desktop workstation?
>
> Try this command on your system:
>
> ls -l /sys/fs/cgroup
>
> On mine, I currently have 35 entries.
>
> What are yours being used for?

Huh, I have 35 too. Weird coincidence.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

vallor wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Sun, 3 Mar 2024 10:25:21 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us>
> wrote in <us24p1$2i1ku$3@dont-email.me>:
>
>> vallor wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>>> Systemd manages cgroups, among other things.
>>>
>>> Farled Fur says he doesn't use systemd. Therefore,
>>> he doesn't have an easy way to manage cgroups to restrict his
>>> containers.
>>>
>>> In fact, I don't think Furled Far can even build a container on his
>>> "custom", cut-rate system. ENOTSUP.
>>>
>>> "Here's a nickel kid, get yourself a real computer."
>>
>> My Bible:
>>
>> https://man7.org/tlpi/
>>
>> The Linux Programming Interface (published in October 2010, No
>> Starch Press, ISBN 978-1-59327-220-3) is a detailed guide and
>> reference for Linux and UNIX system programming.
>>
>> With 1552 pages, 115 diagrams, 88 tables, nearly 200 example
>> programs, and over 200 exercises, TLPI is the most comprehensive
>> description of Linux and UNIX system programming available.
>
> Thank you for the pointer(!), but what does that have to
> do with cgroups?
>
> $ man cgroups

https://man7.org/conf/ndctechtown2021/cgroups-v2-part-1-intro-NDC-TechTown-2021-Kerrisk.pdf

An introduction to control
groups (cgroups) v2
Michael Kerrisk, man7.org © 2021
mtk@man7.org

Sounds like Kerrisk needs to put out the second edition of his book!

--
Q: What do they call the alphabet in Arkansas?
A: The impossible dream.

Le 03-03-2024, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> a écrit :
> On Sun, 03 Mar 2024 10:18:50 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:
>
>> What use are cgroups on a standalone, desktop workstation?

It's a pity I can't see the original message. At least, I see this funny
question. As you didn't answered it, I will, because it's important to
answer his mistakes. I don't disagree with him because it's not a matter
of taste. It's a matter of knowledge, which he clearly lacks.

Let's be clear: if he doesn't want to use modern stuff, it's a question
of choice. To deduce from it, it's useless for a desktop workstation is
just plain wrong. So, it must be corrected with arguments. And there are
many.

First things first. You have a process which will takes time. There is
no hurry, so it will run in the background and you want to keep using
your computer during this time. I mean, not like FR/DG/LP/FF/whatever
who just stare at his useless computer when he tries to compile
something. So at that moment, you want to force this process to let you
some ressources to let you use your computer. It's the time the cgroups
are useful. You find your compiler takes too many CPU? => use the
cgroups. You find Firefox takes too many memory? => cgroups.

Second, the containers like podman or docker are relying heavily on
cgroups. As he probably believes containers are useless on desktop
workstations, I have to prevent his objection.

A container can be used on a personal computer to be sure it will be run
exactly in the same way as somewhere else. For example, I compile my
LaTeX documents with the same container on my computer and on the gitlab
instance which is hosting my files. Like that, I'm sure the document on
my computer is exactly the same as the one downloaded by others.

The containers are used by immutable distros (not Guix and NixOS but
silverblue). The purpose is to isolate the programs/libraries used by
the end user from those used by the system. Like that, one can use
whatever one want without risk of breaking one's system. And one can
upgrade one's system without risk to have issues to break one's
applications.

Another use is if you want to try something, like a new version of an
application before upgrading it. Or to have two versions of the same
application for different purposes at the same time.

So, yes, cgroups can be useful for normal usage of a personal
desktop workstation. Whatever he says.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io