(another ramble inspired by a youtube video)

Apparently "Myst" had its 30 year anniversary a few years ago--- or
will reach it in a month, depending on whether you are talking about
its initial release on Mac, or when it first hit PCs (Sept 1993 and
March 1994, respectively. I honestly can't remember if this got any
mention in this newsgroup yet. It seems like the sort of thing we'd
discuss. Anyway, some guy made a video about it (watch it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMgkTdPFotA ; warning, it's an hour
long).

I don't entirely agree with the gentleman's analysis of the game, but
it's an interesting watch, even if it doesn't really say all to much
that we haven't heard before. It's the sort of video I like to have
running in the background while I'm doing work.

I do sort of agree with his assertion that "Myst" was one of those odd
games that was undeniably great while at the same time not being very
fun to play. It's puzzles were... well, not awful but often
unnecessarily obtuse. I found it interesting that the developers
mostly intended them as 'friction' designed to slow down progress in
through the game to force you to sit back and enjoy the game's
ambience. I suppose that, in some ways, "Myst" was a prototype for
what we now call "walking sims".

My fondest memories of the game are from the Selenitic Age;
specifically the initial portion where you wander about on the surface
trying to unlock the entrance to the tunnels below. You have to
manipulate various antennae to tune into specific ambient sounds. The
whole area had an engrossing, calming soundtrack and excellent digital
sound effects that - by nature of the puzzles - you were forced to
listen to. It was such a soothing, atmospheric environment that -
there decades on - it still haunts me.

(The second half of the Selentic Age - maneuvering your way through a
mine - was far less fun, although I remember being technically
impressed by the use of QuickTime video to 'fake' moving through the
maze).

But I disagree with the assertion that "Myst" didn't kill adventure
games. Or rather, it wasn't "Myst" directly that did them in, but it
led the charge. Aside from everything else about the game, "Myst" (and
its subsequent clones) were both relatively inexpensive to develop,
and they felt cutting edge... at least compared to the cartoony
visuals in games like "The Secret of Monkey Island" or "Police Quest".
This led to a flood of imitators, many of which saw financial success
simply because they LOOKED so good. But most of them were God-awfully
bad games, and they chased a lot of people away playing from better,
more traditional adventures. So it's perhaps unfair to say that "Myst"
itself killed the genre... but it was the figurehead.

(There were so many horrid Myst-clones in that era: "CHAOS Continuum",
"SPQR", "LZone", "NET:Zone", "Quantum Gate", "Crystal Skull",
"Voyeur", "Maabus". It was almost a relief when adventure games
stopped being the 'big genre' of PC gaming.)

"Myst's" success was, I think, because it was such a novelty at the
time. It really did feel like nothing else out there when it was first
released. It was a game that focused on its lonely atmosphere; a far
cry from the chatty, often more infantile adventures we were used to.
Its incredible production values were a major selling point too. It
wasn't just its sharp SVGA graphics (640x480 resolution and 256
colors, wowie-zowie!) but its constant digitised ambient sound. As
much as I adore a good MIDI soundtrack, the recorded digital
soundtrack seemed amazingly advanced.

It didn't help that - for years - Myst was also a pack-in for pretty
much every CD-ROM drive sold (which is one of the reasons its sale
numbers are so high. Popular as the game was, it wasn't /really/
specifically bought by as many people as the numbers imply).

For a long while, c.s.i.p.g.adventure was dominated by "Myst"
discussion... although probably half of that discussion was people
lamenting how much people were talking about "Myst". ;-)

Thirty years; wow. I wonder what games released in 2024 we'll be
discussing in 2054...

>I do sort of agree with his assertion that "Myst" was one of those odd
>games that was undeniably great while at the same time not being very
>fun to play.

The wedge in the door for me with original Myst was hypercard.
Visualizing the puzzle environment and the constant clicking were big
impediments for me, and I soon noped out. When Real Myst came along it was
kind of a revelation, and I could suddenly solve nearly all the puzzles.
The recent VR release otoh was a big disappointment, in particular from the
removal of the original videos in the game. I'm looking forward to the 3D
Riven release, as that was another game I got nowhere with due to hypercard.

rms

rms wrote:
>> I do sort of agree with his assertion that "Myst" was one of those odd
>> games that was undeniably great while at the same time not being very
>> fun to play.
>
>   The wedge in the door for me with original Myst was hypercard.
> Visualizing the puzzle environment and the constant clicking were big
> impediments for me, and I soon noped out.  When Real Myst came along it
> was kind of a revelation, and I could suddenly solve nearly all the
> puzzles. The recent VR release otoh was a big disappointment, in
> particular from the removal of the original videos in the game.  I'm
> looking forward to the 3D Riven release, as that was another game I got
> nowhere with due to hypercard.
>
> rms
>
>
I've heard enough about Myst, what about the sequels? I've got all four
and I need to know what order to play them in. I'd love to see someone
talk about Riven or Myst III. I wouldn't be able to play Myst I again.
I solved it into the ground. The only thing that I still do with Myst
is listen to the soundtrack.

On Fri, 16 Feb 2024 01:38:32 -0600, Lane Larson
<lnlarson@stoat.inhoin.edu> wrote:

>I've heard enough about Myst, what about the sequels? I've got all four
>and I need to know what order to play them in. I'd love to see someone
>talk about Riven or Myst III. I wouldn't be able to play Myst I again.
>I solved it into the ground. The only thing that I still do with Myst
>is listen to the soundtrack.

Most people consider "Riven" (a.k.a., "The Sequel to Myst", a.k.a.,
"Myst 2") to be the superior game. I suppose, from a purely technical
standpoint, it is. It has improved production values, better story,
better integrated puzzles, the works. But I never glommed onto it the
same way other "Myst" fans did.

Quite honestly, I don't really /like/ "Myst"... at least not for its
story, setting and characters. Certainly it wasn't the puzzles of the
original game that attracted me to it. It was the lonely sense of
atmosphere, and the novelty of the game that made it interesting. The
former was lost with the addition of characters to talk to, and the
latter of course can't exist in a sequel.

So the TL;DR is that if you really enjoyed "Myst", you'll probably
love "Riven".

"Myst III" and "Myst IV" were completely forgetable. As in, I have
almost no memory of what those games were about or anything that made
them stand out. If you want see how the story of the first two games
progress (and like the style of gameplay of the first two games) then
you'll want to play those. But it's a hard sell otherwise.

"Myst URU" added some novelty to the series again, if only because it
was the first game to add free-roaming 3D worlds (okay, I think
technically "RealMyst" came out first, but that was just a rehash of
the first game). It was supposed to be this big open-world online
thing, but that never panned out. It's still playable as a
single-player experience though. Like the first game of the franchise,
I enjoyed it more for its potential than the actual gameplay. It's
worth playing for the changes it makes to the formula more than
anything else, at least in my opinion.

"Myst V: End of Ages" was intended to wrap up the "Myst" series. Like
games 3 and 4, I don't really remember much about it. This was caused,
at least partially,because by that time the "Myst" games had become a
part of a larger franchise, and if you weren't a huge fan reading all
the novels and side-material, a lot of the sub-plots that "Myst V" was
bringing to a close didn't mean anything to a more casual player. I
remember playing the game almost out of a sense of duty to see the
franchise to its end.

But, again, I was never a "Myst" die-hard, so take my opinions with
that in mind. But I think that was part of the problem with the
franchise; increasingly, as the series progressed, it was designed
with the diehards in mind, leaving the less dedicated players confused
and disinterested.

Still, I'd recommend giving at least "Riven" a try. Although it never
cast the same spell upon me that it managed on other fans, even I am
forced to admit it is an undeniably good game, even if fairly niche in
genre. After that, the attraction of the sequels will largely depend
on how much fun you had with the second game.

>I've heard enough about Myst, what about the sequels? I've got all four
>and I need to know what order to play them in. I'd love to see someone
>talk about Riven or Myst III. I wouldn't be able to play Myst I again.

I'm in a holding pattern myself. Having bounced off original Riven (even
having ebay'd a bigbox 6cd copy years ago), and also with deluxe hardbacks
of all the novels, still unread, waiting for motivation. The Riven remake
was announced but still has no release date:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1712350/Riven/
Imho they've let this series languish far too long, but I guess it’s a small
miracle they are still around and doing something, however slowly.

rms

On Fri, 16 Feb 2024 01:38:32 -0600, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, Lane
Larson wrote:

>rms wrote:
>>> I do sort of agree with his assertion that "Myst" was one of those odd
>>> games that was undeniably great while at the same time not being very
>>> fun to play.
>>
>>   The wedge in the door for me with original Myst was hypercard.
>> Visualizing the puzzle environment and the constant clicking were big
>> impediments for me, and I soon noped out.  When Real Myst came along it
>> was kind of a revelation, and I could suddenly solve nearly all the
>> puzzles. The recent VR release otoh was a big disappointment, in
>> particular from the removal of the original videos in the game.  I'm
>> looking forward to the 3D Riven release, as that was another game I got
>> nowhere with due to hypercard.
>>
>> rms
>>
>>
>I've heard enough about Myst, what about the sequels? I've got all four
>and I need to know what order to play them in. I'd love to see someone
>talk about Riven or Myst III. I wouldn't be able to play Myst I again.
>I solved it into the ground. The only thing that I still do with Myst
>is listen to the soundtrack.

All I remember about Riven is this one terrible puzzle involving marbles
in a grid that was based on spatial-visualization cues in the
environment. It's the only way to describe it without spoilers. The grid
is *enormous*.

It gave no real feedback on its own as to what it was there for and what
you were supposed to do with it (though I did figure that much out). Once
you did figure that out, ie: where you place the marbles and why, there
was no feedback about whether you were doing the right thing. Do yourself
a favor and just Google where to place the marbles.

[spoiler]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-38Ye6ytyI[/spoiler]

(If you watched the spoiler, yup... insane. The guy has a theory about a
guess. Maybe. Remember, no feedback here. None. You get a 50/50 chance of
either solving a puzzle that is very hard in the first place, or getting
frustrated because you guessed wrong.)

Other than that, I remember the QT movies in Riven were much bigger and
prettier than Myst, and it had very satisfying puzzles. Lots more detail
in Riven. More lore. More connected story instead of just random stuff.

I have Myst III but never played it past the first few scenes.

Myst IV is very cool because it has a Peter Gabriel song embedded in it,
but is also very hard. Some call it 'unfair.'

IMO, the only way to play the original Myst is the realMyst remake, if
you can get it running. It has an extra age that shows off DX7.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

Am 13.02.24 um 01:34 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
> (another ramble inspired by a youtube video)
>
> Apparently "Myst" had its 30 year anniversary a few years ago--- or
> will reach it in a month, depending on whether you are talking about
> its initial release on Mac, or when it first hit PCs (Sept 1993 and
> March 1994, respectively. I honestly can't remember if this got any
> mention in this newsgroup yet. It seems like the sort of thing we'd
> discuss. Anyway, some guy made a video about it (watch it here:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMgkTdPFotA ; warning, it's an hour
> long).

I always had a sort of love and hate relationship with Myst, it
definitely was a milestone, but in the end it killed almost or killed
the mass market point and click adventure game genre.
Myst basically was one of the points where a single game raked a ton of
money and tons of copycats flooded, and the masses bought it for
whatever reason and they noticed that a thinking game is not for them
and left again, a few failed attempts afterwards with clones and the
genre basically was declared dead.
So yes, Myst definitely was a good game for its time, but at the same
time it was the death knell for the adventure game genre!
The fun thing is, it never was a real point and click adventure game, it
belongs to a genre we nowadays define as puzzle games!