Oy, these Tomb Raider remasters; they're so LAZY.

You all probably know my opinions on remasters in general (if you
don't, here's the hot take: I'm not a fan). It's actually a bit more
nuanced; I don't mind remasters IF they are done by fans. The "X-Wing
Alliance" remaster (https://www.xwaupgrade.com/)? I'm all in! The
"Ultima V" remaster using Dungeon Siege? (http://www.u5lazarus.com/)?
Awesome. Elder Scrolls Oblivion updated to use the Skyrim engine
(https://skyblivion.com/)? Can't wait until it's done. Fuckin' "Black
Mesa" (https://www.techspot.com/downloads/5486-black-mesa.html)? Hell
yeah! These are products of love, made by resource-limited fans,
designed to celebrate beloved games with other gamers. I can get
behind that sort of devotion.

But I'm a lot less sanguine when a corporation does the same thing,
milking gamer's nostalgia to improve their own bottom lines. It's lazy
and safe, and I'd much rather they use their resources to either
advance a franchise or - better yet - create new properties and ideas.

Yeah, sometimes it can be done well ("Dead Space" and "System Shock"
are two prominent examples) but more often than not it's just a
sloppily made cash grab. The 2021 "Grand Theft Auto Trilogy Definitive
Edition" is one such example of the latter.

Guess which category the recently released "Tomb Raider Trilogy"
remake falls into?

What really gets me isn't how poorly done this remaster is. I mean, it
is awful; there's a guy rebuilding "Tomb Raider II" using the Unreal
engine that blows the official efforts out of the water. He's finished
the first level and you can download it for free
(http://tombraider-dox.com/downloads/). The official remake has barely
touched-up visuals, awful controls, and a worse camera. Sure, they say
they want to be 'true to the original', but if that was really the
case they could just resell the originals. The official remasters are
in the state they are because that was the cheapest they could get
away with and still say they are distinct (and worth charging money
for) and get away with.

But that's not what really irks me.

It's that there already was a proper "Tomb Raider" remaster...and it
blows this newest effort out of the water.

Sure, "Tomb Raider Anniversary" wasn't without its issues. The
quicktime events, the way it tried to stuff the 'Crystal Dynamics'
universe into the classic adventure, the weird lock-on targeting... it
wasn't a perfect game. But it was an obvious attempt to modernize the
original while still maintaining the core ideas (and as much of the
level and game design) of the original. It wasn't just a half-assed
engine swap and running the textures through an AI upscaler.
"Anniversary" required an understanding of what the original was
trying to do, and an effort to improve it.

If Aspyr had put that same effort into their remaster... well, I'd
still grumble about it being a remaster but at least you'd get your
money's worth. The developers might even have stumbled across some new
ideas while they were at it; ideas that might be used to create new
games.

Sadly, this game will likely be considered a success by Aspyr, and
only encourage them - and other publishers - to release similarly
soulless ports. Not because it will sell very well (although, with the
"Tomb Raider" brand associated with the games, and the nostalgia for
an era when modern AAA games weren't all crap, it probably will get
lots of sales) but, rather, because remasters like this are relatively
cheap to make. Why put effort into anything when you can half-ass it
and still rake in the cash?

>What really gets me isn't how poorly done this remaster is.

Well that's quite a hot take. Steam reviews are delighted, saying it did
exactly what was needed and no more to bring the original games into the
modern era without screwing with the original look & feel. I watched an
overview of the changes by a TR speedrunner covering the many small
improvements, adjustments and bug fixes, and he seemed very pleased
(especially with finally getting high framerates instead of 30hz) with the
various QOL improvements. As for involving the fanbase, a steam review
states that the maker of OpenLara was brought into the development team to
work on the project (I haven't verified that or the details).

I haven't bought this -- $10 would be my buy point -- but do recall the
Resident Evil remasters of 0 & 1, and what a big deal it was for me just
having an 'alternate control' scheme available without having to deal with
the original tank controls, not to mention them finally being ported to pc,
and assume something similar was the goal with this TR project, and it seems
to me they succeeded. There is some buzz about a new game being in
development, and the current project is no doubt intended to keep the
franchise in front of gamers' eyes without a massive investment.

rms

Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>
> Oy, these Tomb Raider remasters; they're so LAZY.
>
> You all probably know my opinions on remasters in general (if you
> don't, here's the hot take: I'm not a fan). It's actually a bit more
> nuanced; I don't mind remasters IF they are done by fans. The "X-Wing
> Alliance" remaster (https://www.xwaupgrade.com/)? I'm all in! The
> "Ultima V" remaster using Dungeon Siege? (http://www.u5lazarus.com/)?
> Awesome. Elder Scrolls Oblivion updated to use the Skyrim engine
> (https://skyblivion.com/)? Can't wait until it's done. Fuckin' "Black
> Mesa" (https://www.techspot.com/downloads/5486-black-mesa.html)? Hell
> yeah! These are products of love, made by resource-limited fans,
> designed to celebrate beloved games with other gamers. I can get
> behind that sort of devotion.
>
> But I'm a lot less sanguine when a corporation does the same thing,
> milking gamer's nostalgia to improve their own bottom lines. It's lazy
> and safe, and I'd much rather they use their resources to either
> advance a franchise or - better yet - create new properties and ideas.
>
> Yeah, sometimes it can be done well ("Dead Space" and "System Shock"
> are two prominent examples) but more often than not it's just a
> sloppily made cash grab. The 2021 "Grand Theft Auto Trilogy Definitive
> Edition" is one such example of the latter.
>
> Guess which category the recently released "Tomb Raider Trilogy"
> remake falls into?
>
> What really gets me isn't how poorly done this remaster is. I mean, it
> is awful; there's a guy rebuilding "Tomb Raider II" using the Unreal
> engine that blows the official efforts out of the water. He's finished
> the first level and you can download it for free
> (http://tombraider-dox.com/downloads/). The official remake has barely
> touched-up visuals, awful controls, and a worse camera. Sure, they say
> they want to be 'true to the original', but if that was really the
> case they could just resell the originals. The official remasters are
> in the state they are because that was the cheapest they could get
> away with and still say they are distinct (and worth charging money
> for) and get away with.
>
> But that's not what really irks me.
>
> It's that there already was a proper "Tomb Raider" remaster...and it
> blows this newest effort out of the water.
>
> Sure, "Tomb Raider Anniversary" wasn't without its issues. The
> quicktime events, the way it tried to stuff the 'Crystal Dynamics'
> universe into the classic adventure, the weird lock-on targeting... it
> wasn't a perfect game. But it was an obvious attempt to modernize the
> original while still maintaining the core ideas (and as much of the
> level and game design) of the original. It wasn't just a half-assed
> engine swap and running the textures through an AI upscaler.
> "Anniversary" required an understanding of what the original was
> trying to do, and an effort to improve it.
>
> If Aspyr had put that same effort into their remaster... well, I'd
> still grumble about it being a remaster but at least you'd get your
> money's worth. The developers might even have stumbled across some new
> ideas while they were at it; ideas that might be used to create new
> games.
>
> Sadly, this game will likely be considered a success by Aspyr, and
> only encourage them - and other publishers - to release similarly
> soulless ports. Not because it will sell very well (although, with the
> "Tomb Raider" brand associated with the games, and the nostalgia for
> an era when modern AAA games weren't all crap, it probably will get
> lots of sales) but, rather, because remasters like this are relatively
> cheap to make. Why put effort into anything when you can half-ass it
> and still rake in the cash?
>
That's a lot of reasons. I like remakes. While Wizardry:Proving
Grounds of the Mad Overlord isn't as engaging as Wizardry: 5 Ordeals,
it's still a fantastic game. The improvements to PGotMO are mostly
graphical, Wizardry: 5O is for the most part Wizardry 9. The only
complaint I have about it is ... a treasure chest EVERY combat. It
means I've got to get my thief out and see each time there is a fight.
Maybe 1% of battles don't have chests. Other than that, I'm advancing
somewhat regularly.

But the best remake of all was Avernum: Escape from the Pit. It's
really decided by how deep the remake goes. The more the better. I
would play Ultima IV too if it was remade.

I can't judge the Tomb Raider remaster because I decided against getting
it. I was waiting for more opinions about it.

On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 18:56:14 -0600, Lane Larson
<lnlarson@stoat.inhoin.edu> wrote:

>That's a lot of reasons. I like remakes. While Wizardry:Proving
>Grounds of the Mad Overlord isn't as engaging as Wizardry: 5 Ordeals,
>it's still a fantastic game. The improvements to PGotMO are mostly
>graphical, Wizardry: 5O is for the most part Wizardry 9. The only
>complaint I have about it is ... a treasure chest EVERY combat. It
>means I've got to get my thief out and see each time there is a fight.
>Maybe 1% of battles don't have chests. Other than that, I'm advancing
>somewhat regularly.

I like remakes too. Bring them on. If they suck, I won't buy them.
Simple as that. I am still waiting for a remake of the early Might &
Magics.

>But the best remake of all was Avernum: Escape from the Pit. It's
>really decided by how deep the remake goes. The more the better. I
>would play Ultima IV too if it was remade.

I just bought Avernum: Escape From the Pit on Steam as it was on sale.
I own the older version on GOG but I would rather play the latest
edition and for $3, why not?

Am 18.02.24 um 01:56 schrieb Lane Larson:
> But the best remake of all was Avernum: Escape from the Pit.  It's
> really decided by how deep the remake goes.  The more the better.  I
> would play Ultima IV too if it was remade.
Actually that is pretty much the only Ultima I do not want to see remade
again. It has been remade several times, and the last time it was, it
was a money grabbing scheme for mobile gamers from EA! (Ultima Forever)
A game I instantly stopped playing when the first NPC told me that you
can go to the store to buy better keys to increase your loot box change!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_Forever:_Quest_for_the_Avatar

Usually whenever an Ultima is being remade it is U4 or something which
references itself to U4!

On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 12:35:05 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

>If Aspyr had put that same effort into their remaster... well, I'd
>still grumble about it being a remaster but at least you'd get your
>money's worth. The developers might even have stumbled across some new
>ideas while they were at it; ideas that might be used to create new
>games.

Aspyr reboots/ports are the king of cash grabs. They can also be very
bad. I got Star Wars - Racer from them to play on the Switch and, guess
what? One of the control schemes doesn't really have a usable "boost"
button. The other one sucks and has no usable rotation controls. The
hell? You need "boost" to win the race. The best way to get through
narrow corridors is to turn your pod rig on its side. Aspyr's take? Pick
one.

And the graphics are straight up untouched from the N64 version.

Avoid Aspyr's remakes entirely is my opinion.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 12:45:45 +0100, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Werner P. wrote:

>Am 18.02.24 um 01:56 schrieb Lane Larson:
>> But the best remake of all was Avernum: Escape from the Pit.  It's
>> really decided by how deep the remake goes.  The more the better.  I
>> would play Ultima IV too if it was remade.
>Actually that is pretty much the only Ultima I do not want to see remade
>again. It has been remade several times, and the last time it was, it
>was a money grabbing scheme for mobile gamers from EA! (Ultima Forever)
>A game I instantly stopped playing when the first NPC told me that you
>can go to the store to buy better keys to increase your loot box change!
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_Forever:_Quest_for_the_Avatar
>
>
>Usually whenever an Ultima is being remade it is U4 or something which
>references itself to U4!
>
I would like to see a reboot of Ultima IX, where the entire story is
changed, the DX driver is usable, the Avatar is customisable beyond
"Aryan," and the horses are alive.

Oh wait, that's a full remake of Ultima IX. From the ground up. One thing
is for sure: It doesn't need Lord British's input. A full fan remake
would be awesome so we'd have some closure to the Guardian trilogy that
doesn't make Baby Jesus weep.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

Am 18.02.24 um 15:00 schrieb Zaghadka:
> On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 12:45:45 +0100, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
> Werner P. wrote:
>
>> Am 18.02.24 um 01:56 schrieb Lane Larson:
>>> But the best remake of all was Avernum: Escape from the Pit.  It's
>>> really decided by how deep the remake goes.  The more the better.  I
>>> would play Ultima IV too if it was remade.
>> Actually that is pretty much the only Ultima I do not want to see remade
>> again. It has been remade several times, and the last time it was, it
>> was a money grabbing scheme for mobile gamers from EA! (Ultima Forever)
>> A game I instantly stopped playing when the first NPC told me that you
>> can go to the store to buy better keys to increase your loot box change!
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_Forever:_Quest_for_the_Avatar
>>
>>
>> Usually whenever an Ultima is being remade it is U4 or something which
>> references itself to U4!
>>
> I would like to see a reboot of Ultima IX, where the entire story is
> changed, the DX driver is usable, the Avatar is customisable beyond
> "Aryan," and the horses are alive.
>
> Oh wait, that's a full remake of Ultima IX. From the ground up. One thing
> is for sure: It doesn't need Lord British's input. A full fan remake
> would be awesome so we'd have some closure to the Guardian trilogy that
> doesn't make Baby Jesus weep.
>
Ultima 9 with the original leaked story line, or a more fleshed out
Ultima 8 would be a real fan service, but we will probably never see
either! There was an awesome original story line leaked by one of the
original devs before LB ran the project down, it was meant originally as
3d Ultima 7 (top down view with a party) with a story line which was
similar big as U7, this would have been a great game. You can google the
story line up!

There arent that many companies which could pull off an AAA Ultima
nowadays, Larian is being basically the only one I could think of which
would have the heart to make a decent Ultima in the veins of the old
ones, and even then they probably would omit day and night cycles
because it would double a lot of work (I could live without it though)