Hi, I know many of you are not huge fans of VR,
but in order to try out the oculus link feature I dabbled into Skyrim VR
and gave it a serious shot, after modding the hell out of it to get the
worst graphical sins out the game had. I must say I am seriously
impressed with it, and that even after not being a fan of the game itself.
I am basically still 3 hours into the beginning, but I can see to spend
more time with it, VR in this game is absolutely lovely and a game
changer! Fights are lets say, a little bit unreal, you basically waggle
your sword against the enemies and if they do not block via a shield you
have a sure hit, but outside of that absolutely great game.

I wished we had more titles like it, that and HL Alyx basically stand
out like beacons in a desert of mini games, but there is a new Assassins
creed out this might be worthwhile in VR!

Btw, Steam link on the VR Quest 2 is not worhtwhile it relies on data
transfer via wifi which is lets say it subideal for vr, it is better to
buy a cheap usb link cable and use oculus link into the desktop for that
feature!

>I dabbled into Skyrim VR

Another online friend has played through Skyrim multiple times and says
VR is his favorite way to play it.

>there is a new Assassins creed out this might be worthwhile in VR!

Asgard's Wrath 2 is another very interesting title

rms

Am 18.12.23 um 15:28 schrieb rms:
>> I dabbled into Skyrim VR
>
>   Another online friend has played through Skyrim multiple times and
> says VR is his favorite way to play it.
>
>> there is a new Assassins creed out this might be worthwhile in VR!
>
>   Asgard's Wrath 2 is another very interesting title
>
> rms
It is indeed, but more on the action side, less exploration, I guess,
also alternatives are mappers which can map normal games into vr, you
lose the vr controls that way however which breaks immersion but for
certain first person games it workds well enough, given you still need a
controller!

On Mon, 18 Dec 2023 12:29:59 +0100, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:

>Hi, I know many of you are not huge fans of VR,
>but in order to try out the oculus link feature I dabbled into Skyrim VR
>and gave it a serious shot, after modding the hell out of it to get the
>worst graphical sins out the game had. I must say I am seriously
>impressed with it, and that even after not being a fan of the game itself.
>I am basically still 3 hours into the beginning, but I can see to spend
>more time with it, VR in this game is absolutely lovely and a game
>changer! Fights are lets say, a little bit unreal, you basically waggle
>your sword against the enemies and if they do not block via a shield you
>have a sure hit, but outside of that absolutely great game.
>
>
>I wished we had more titles like it, that and HL Alyx basically stand
>out like beacons in a desert of mini games, but there is a new Assassins
>creed out this might be worthwhile in VR!
>
>Btw, Steam link on the VR Quest 2 is not worhtwhile it relies on data
>transfer via wifi which is lets say it subideal for vr, it is better to
>buy a cheap usb link cable and use oculus link into the desktop for that
>feature!

It's not so much that I'm not a fan of VR, as I don't find it as
immersive as people say. In part, I think this has to do with my wonky
eyesight, where the "you are in the world 3D effect" is just less
effective for me. Rather than feeling as if I'm immersed in a virtual
world, everything just looks like too-close, low-res monitors strapped
to my face... and effect I could mimic just by strapping a brick to my
forehead and moving my face really close to my existing monitors ;-)

But even without that, VR still feels gimmicky. This has less to do
with the display technology which - for the decently sighted - is
probably quite impressive - but for everything else. Controls and
movement remain significant issues. It's sort of like an 'uncanny
valley' effect where - as the worlds become more immersive - the
clumsy controls stand out ever more, and become much more distracting
than they should be.

For some games, this is less of an issue (for instance, VR + steering
wheel/shifter/pedals probably makes for a great driving experience)
but for walking and picking things up (or, as you noted, swinging a
sword) it's less than stellar. This may be solved one day, with better
controllers, but right now it's still problematic.

Then throw into various niggling issues: motion sickness, hardware and
software compatibility, Facebook, the discomfort of wearing a headset,
etc. - and VR's appeal diminishes even further.

In many ways, I was more excited about VR in its first appearance back
in the mid 90s, because then it was new and novel. Now, while I see
its potential, I also see its many, many faults. What we have now is a
stepping stone to what might one day become useful... but we're not
there yet. Worse, the current tech seems to be in something of a rut,
focusing on the wrong things (higher-res displays and monetization
schemes).

I wish VR could live up to its potential... but we're not there yet.
I'm not sure we'll ever get there, short of holodeck technology and/or
neuro-interfacing. But right now, what we have is gadgetry that -
except for a few very specialized instances or for die-hard fans - not
worth the price and effort.

IMHO. YMMV. VOTLAMA.

On 12/18/2023 8:06 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Dec 2023 12:29:59 +0100, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:
>
>> Hi, I know many of you are not huge fans of VR,
>> but in order to try out the oculus link feature I dabbled into Skyrim VR
>> and gave it a serious shot, after modding the hell out of it to get the
>> worst graphical sins out the game had. I must say I am seriously
>> impressed with it, and that even after not being a fan of the game itself.
>> I am basically still 3 hours into the beginning, but I can see to spend
>> more time with it, VR in this game is absolutely lovely and a game
>> changer! Fights are lets say, a little bit unreal, you basically waggle
>> your sword against the enemies and if they do not block via a shield you
>> have a sure hit, but outside of that absolutely great game.
>>
>>
>> I wished we had more titles like it, that and HL Alyx basically stand
>> out like beacons in a desert of mini games, but there is a new Assassins
>> creed out this might be worthwhile in VR!
>>
>> Btw, Steam link on the VR Quest 2 is not worhtwhile it relies on data
>> transfer via wifi which is lets say it subideal for vr, it is better to
>> buy a cheap usb link cable and use oculus link into the desktop for that
>> feature!
>
>
> It's not so much that I'm not a fan of VR, as I don't find it as
> immersive as people say. In part, I think this has to do with my wonky
> eyesight, where the "you are in the world 3D effect" is just less
> effective for me. Rather than feeling as if I'm immersed in a virtual
> world, everything just looks like too-close, low-res monitors strapped
> to my face... and effect I could mimic just by strapping a brick to my
> forehead and moving my face really close to my existing monitors ;-)

You likely don't have stereoscopic 3d* vision, your brain is
interpreting one eye only, which is fairly common**. No point to VR for
you. Might as well ask a blind person to rate how good the graphics are
in the latest super real shooter.

*Even stereoscopic vision, which isn't true 3d is only good for about 20
feet, then it's faked with parallax and making assumptions based on
other visual cues, which doesn't work as well. Some people without
stereoscopic vision can see 3D this way, but it wouldn't work any better
than a single screen vs. vr goggles.

** Up to 15% don't have stereoscopic 3d vision, that's a pretty big
chunk of people VR isn't going to have any effect on. There's a
dot-finger test you can try from a number of online places. The closer
you can get to the screen the better it works.

Sorry, but the rest of your opinions on VR are like getting the opinion
of a person deaf in one ear on which speakers do the best at positional
audio.

--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
(\_/)\
`-'\ `--.___,
¶¬'\( ,_.-'
\\
^'

On Mon, 18 Dec 2023 11:07:38 -0800, Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>On 12/18/2023 8:06 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Dec 2023 12:29:59 +0100, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, I know many of you are not huge fans of VR,
>>> but in order to try out the oculus link feature I dabbled into Skyrim VR
>>> and gave it a serious shot, after modding the hell out of it to get the
>>> worst graphical sins out the game had. I must say I am seriously
>>> impressed with it, and that even after not being a fan of the game itself.
>>> I am basically still 3 hours into the beginning, but I can see to spend
>>> more time with it, VR in this game is absolutely lovely and a game
>>> changer! Fights are lets say, a little bit unreal, you basically waggle
>>> your sword against the enemies and if they do not block via a shield you
>>> have a sure hit, but outside of that absolutely great game.
>>>
>>>
>>> I wished we had more titles like it, that and HL Alyx basically stand
>>> out like beacons in a desert of mini games, but there is a new Assassins
>>> creed out this might be worthwhile in VR!
>>>
>>> Btw, Steam link on the VR Quest 2 is not worhtwhile it relies on data
>>> transfer via wifi which is lets say it subideal for vr, it is better to
>>> buy a cheap usb link cable and use oculus link into the desktop for that
>>> feature!
>>
>>
>> It's not so much that I'm not a fan of VR, as I don't find it as
>> immersive as people say. In part, I think this has to do with my wonky
>> eyesight, where the "you are in the world 3D effect" is just less
>> effective for me. Rather than feeling as if I'm immersed in a virtual
>> world, everything just looks like too-close, low-res monitors strapped
>> to my face... and effect I could mimic just by strapping a brick to my
>> forehead and moving my face really close to my existing monitors ;-)
>
>You likely don't have stereoscopic 3d* vision, your brain is
>interpreting one eye only, which is fairly common**. No point to VR for
>you. Might as well ask a blind person to rate how good the graphics are
>in the latest super real shooter.

>Sorry, but the rest of your opinions on VR are like getting the opinion
>of a person deaf in one ear on which speakers do the best at positional
>audio.

No, just bad eyes. Lasik has been suggested but, frankly, it's not
such an issue for me that I've ever really considered it. ;-)

But even if the eyes WERE a problem I'd also argue that the rest of
the issues I brought up - controls, comfort, compatibility, price -
are all still significant problems. It's a gimmick that has not yet
reached its potential. And short of significant advances, I don't
think it ever really will.

AR is arguably more useful, especially for certain tasks (I'm not sure
it will ever really be that good for games). But the fully-immersive
graphics of VR will never really work if you're only VISUALLY
immersed.

On 12/19/2023 6:32 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Dec 2023 11:07:38 -0800, Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 12/18/2023 8:06 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>>> On Mon, 18 Dec 2023 12:29:59 +0100, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi, I know many of you are not huge fans of VR,
>>>> but in order to try out the oculus link feature I dabbled into Skyrim VR
>>>> and gave it a serious shot, after modding the hell out of it to get the
>>>> worst graphical sins out the game had. I must say I am seriously
>>>> impressed with it, and that even after not being a fan of the game itself.
>>>> I am basically still 3 hours into the beginning, but I can see to spend
>>>> more time with it, VR in this game is absolutely lovely and a game
>>>> changer! Fights are lets say, a little bit unreal, you basically waggle
>>>> your sword against the enemies and if they do not block via a shield you
>>>> have a sure hit, but outside of that absolutely great game.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wished we had more titles like it, that and HL Alyx basically stand
>>>> out like beacons in a desert of mini games, but there is a new Assassins
>>>> creed out this might be worthwhile in VR!
>>>>
>>>> Btw, Steam link on the VR Quest 2 is not worhtwhile it relies on data
>>>> transfer via wifi which is lets say it subideal for vr, it is better to
>>>> buy a cheap usb link cable and use oculus link into the desktop for that
>>>> feature!
>>>
>>>
>>> It's not so much that I'm not a fan of VR, as I don't find it as
>>> immersive as people say. In part, I think this has to do with my wonky
>>> eyesight, where the "you are in the world 3D effect" is just less
>>> effective for me. Rather than feeling as if I'm immersed in a virtual
>>> world, everything just looks like too-close, low-res monitors strapped
>>> to my face... and effect I could mimic just by strapping a brick to my
>>> forehead and moving my face really close to my existing monitors ;-)
>>
>> You likely don't have stereoscopic 3d* vision, your brain is
>> interpreting one eye only, which is fairly common**. No point to VR for
>> you. Might as well ask a blind person to rate how good the graphics are
>> in the latest super real shooter.
>
>> Sorry, but the rest of your opinions on VR are like getting the opinion
>> of a person deaf in one ear on which speakers do the best at positional
>> audio.
>
> No, just bad eyes. Lasik has been suggested but, frankly, it's not
> such an issue for me that I've ever really considered it. ;-)
>
> But even if the eyes WERE a problem I'd also argue that the rest of
> the issues I brought up - controls, comfort, compatibility, price -
> are all still significant problems. It's a gimmick that has not yet
> reached its potential. And short of significant advances, I don't
> think it ever really will.
>

I don't really think any of those are significant problems. Price
perhaps, but the meta Oculus has brought that down to a reasonable
price, heck for something that doesn't need to be hooked up to a gaming
computer it's actually on the very cheap side. The controls seem fine
to me.

Seems fine on comfort as well, but the weight and needing to stand the
entire time does add up to fatigue fairly quickly, which is a problem.
That may just be because I'm old though.

Motion sickness is a fairly common problem, at least among those the 3d
illusion works on.

The biggest problem as far as gaming goes is apparently it's much more
difficult to program anything more than gimmick games.

> AR is arguably more useful, especially for certain tasks (I'm not sure
> it will ever really be that good for games). But the fully-immersive
> graphics of VR will never really work if you're only VISUALLY
> immersed.

I do like using pass-through, and assume AR would be pretty useful if
you could say catalog everything in the garage just by speaking and
looking at things - or even better while an AI catalogs it, while
wearing something much lighter, and then asking where something is
later. A cyber-hud in AR glasses, or perhaps we'll go the way of AI
drone assistants with lasers to project text and directions instead. I
saw recently there's been a breakthrough in quieter fans.

--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
(\_/)\
`-'\ `--.___,
¶¬'\( ,_.-'
\\
^'