I hate the place...what happens if I bail on the underdark and take the
mountain pass? Will I have messed up the game?

On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 7:12:49 AM UTC-7, DotNettie wrote:
> I hate the place...what happens if I bail on the underdark and take the
> mountain pass? Will I have messed up the game?

It's remarkably hard to 'mess up' the game. You can come back to the
Underdark after going on through the mountain pass, or if you decide
it's too hard. The only time you're cut off from going back is when you
finish act 2 to go on toward Baldur's gate. You can't go back to act 2 or
act 1 from act 3.

So no. It's probably better to go through both before you get too far into
act 2 as there's a lot of items and xp to be had from both the mountain
pass and the Underdark. Arguably some of the items from the mountain
pass are much better for getting through Act 2, without getting into
spoilers.

I will say you likely won't like act 2 if you didn't like the Underdark though,
It's kind of Underdark taken to 11. I kept leaving and going back, and
playing the game over from the beginning to avoid it. I eventually got
through it though.

- Justisaur

On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 12:12:37 -0700 (PDT), Justisaur
<justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 7:12:49?AM UTC-7, DotNettie wrote:
>> I hate the place...what happens if I bail on the underdark and take the
>> mountain pass? Will I have messed up the game?

>I will say you likely won't like act 2 if you didn't like the Underdark though,
>It's kind of Underdark taken to 11. I kept leaving and going back, and
>playing the game over from the beginning to avoid it. I eventually got
>through it though.

I haven't played BG3 (yet) so I can't comment on its Underdark. That
won't stop me from blathering on, though (what can I say: an aimless,
only vaguely-on-topic ramble is kind of my thing). So instead of
talking about BG3's specific implementation, I'll just talk about the
Underdark in general.

The Underdark is one of those ideas - whether on the tabletop or
video-screen - that always seemed neater in concept than
implementation. I've never really played any incarnation of the
Underdark that was really fun to play; it was usually something one
endured. At best it was a novelty; a new region that you briefly
visited that made you appreciate the sanity of the over-world.

I think the biggest problem with the Underdark is that it's always
been portrayed as something as a deathworld - a dungeon-crawl on
steroids - where the slightest mistake would result in a quick death.
The whole realm was purposefully designed to be maliciously deadly:
whether from the darkness, the cold (or heat!), the lack of food (and
resupply in general), and all the worst monsters of the game. It
became an exhausting slog just to stay alive, much less complete
whatever heroic quest was thrust upon the players. As a tabletop DM,
I've heard my players many-a-time reminisce of the fantastic locations
they have explored. Rarely do any in the Underdark get a mention.

It probably doesn't help that visually there's only so much you can do
with underground caverns. Although dedicated spelunkers would probably
disagree, for most gamers, once you've seen one cave you've seen them
all. Is Moria really all that different from Menzoberranzan from the
Stygian Abyss? There's a distinct lack of variety that makes one
Underdark adventure run into the next; they're all pretty
interchangeable.

There have been some "Underdarks" that haven't fallen into the usual
mold (classic D&D had an entire "hollow world" Underdark realm that
was pretty unique) but most of the D&D video games have followed the
standard implementation: a murderous realm with a lack of interesting
interactions beyond killing a bunch of over-powered (and far too
magical) monsters. Even "Baldurs Gate 2" (which is possibly the most
beloved game in the genre) suffered that same fate.

Unfortunately, from the it doesn't sound as if "Baldurs Gate 3" is any
different...

On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 2:04:35 PM UTC-7, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 12:12:37 -0700 (PDT), Justisaur
> <just...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 7:12:49?AM UTC-7, DotNettie wrote:
> >> I hate the place...what happens if I bail on the underdark and take the
> >> mountain pass? Will I have messed up the game?
> >I will say you likely won't like act 2 if you didn't like the Underdark though,
> >It's kind of Underdark taken to 11. I kept leaving and going back, and
> >playing the game over from the beginning to avoid it. I eventually got
> >through it though.
> I haven't played BG3 (yet) so I can't comment on its Underdark. That
> won't stop me from blathering on, though (what can I say: an aimless,
> only vaguely-on-topic ramble is kind of my thing). So instead of
> talking about BG3's specific implementation, I'll just talk about the
> Underdark in general.
>
> The Underdark is one of those ideas - whether on the tabletop or
> video-screen - that always seemed neater in concept than
> implementation. I've never really played any incarnation of the
> Underdark that was really fun to play; it was usually something one
> endured. At best it was a novelty; a new region that you briefly
> visited that made you appreciate the sanity of the over-world.
>
> I think the biggest problem with the Underdark is that it's always
> been portrayed as something as a deathworld - a dungeon-crawl on
> steroids - where the slightest mistake would result in a quick death.
> The whole realm was purposefully designed to be maliciously deadly:
> whether from the darkness, the cold (or heat!), the lack of food (and
> resupply in general), and all the worst monsters of the game. It
> became an exhausting slog just to stay alive, much less complete
> whatever heroic quest was thrust upon the players. As a tabletop DM,
> I've heard my players many-a-time reminisce of the fantastic locations
> they have explored. Rarely do any in the Underdark get a mention.
>
> It probably doesn't help that visually there's only so much you can do
> with underground caverns. Although dedicated spelunkers would probably
> disagree, for most gamers, once you've seen one cave you've seen them
> all. Is Moria really all that different from Menzoberranzan from the
> Stygian Abyss? There's a distinct lack of variety that makes one
> Underdark adventure run into the next; they're all pretty
> interchangeable.
>
> There have been some "Underdarks" that haven't fallen into the usual
> mold (classic D&D had an entire "hollow world" Underdark realm that
> was pretty unique) but most of the D&D video games have followed the
> standard implementation: a murderous realm with a lack of interesting
> interactions beyond killing a bunch of over-powered (and far too
> magical) monsters. Even "Baldurs Gate 2" (which is possibly the most
> beloved game in the genre) suffered that same fate.
>
> Unfortunately, from the it doesn't sound as if "Baldurs Gate 3" is any
> different...

The BG3 version is a bit different, it's actually a fairly small and short
section. There's no issues resupplying or resting there, and you can
leave whenever you want (well probably not in a fight.) It has interesting
differentiated areas, a couple different towns to interact with, and all
the interesting NPCs in those towns. It is dark and underground
but being for around level 4-5 while it does have some powerful
magic monsters, most of the monsters aren't that bad.

Act 2 is similar to underdark in that it's dark and gloomy, but without
getting into spoilers it's not underground.

Spoilers
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In the underdark section there's a myconid colony, and an evil
temple currently taken over by duergar slavers, and a wizard tower
manned by constructs. There is a spectator, and a very powerful
golem, a bullette, and there's a section of lolth/inteligent spiders
(though that might not be officially part of the underdark, as it's
it's own cave, but has a connection to the rest of the underdark.

Act 2 is a land cursed with shadows, including multi-pathed
wilderness and almost a city, and full of almost exclusively
undead, except for another rather large tower which is more like
a castle or fort of shadow cultists, and an underground temple
all of which I found rather tedious and oppressive to get through.
As it's a whole act and not just a small section of Act 1, it's much
longer. Once can still leave it to back to the green wilderness and
towns of Act 1 at any time though, and rest whenever (which is in
general a flaw of 5e that DMs *can* and are *supposed* to mitigate
but often don't, and even more so BG3.)

- Justisaur

On 10/23/2023 3:12 PM, Justisaur wrote:
> On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 7:12:49 AM UTC-7, DotNettie wrote:
>> I hate the place...what happens if I bail on the underdark and take the
>> mountain pass? Will I have messed up the game?
>
> It's remarkably hard to 'mess up' the game. You can come back to the
> Underdark after going on through the mountain pass, or if you decide
> it's too hard. The only time you're cut off from going back is when you
> finish act 2 to go on toward Baldur's gate. You can't go back to act 2 or
> act 1 from act 3.
>
> So no. It's probably better to go through both before you get too far into
> act 2 as there's a lot of items and xp to be had from both the mountain
> pass and the Underdark. Arguably some of the items from the mountain
> pass are much better for getting through Act 2, without getting into
> spoilers.
>
> I will say you likely won't like act 2 if you didn't like the Underdark though,
> It's kind of Underdark taken to 11. I kept leaving and going back, and
> playing the game over from the beginning to avoid it. I eventually got
> through it though.
>
> - Justisaur

Thanks to both you & Spalls.

I stayed there for awhile more and met some interesting characters. left
went camp and respecced Astarion to ranger. Went back to the Underdark,
got some interesting trinkets. Astarion was awesome in his new role, but
I still think it's a bit of a "dungeon crawl".

I will give myself a break and try the mountain pass for fun assured
that I won't break the game. Thank you both for your help.

D.