On Sun, 07 Jan 24 14:18:38 +0000, Eric M wrote:

> Le 07/01/2024 à 15:01, Frank Slootweg a écrit :
>
>> I don't know the details of that specific situation, but I was and am
>> talking in general. In general, if you filter/killfile/ignore the bully
>> and don't respond to him, for all intents and purposes he doesn't
>> exist.
>>
>> No, it's not easy and it can be hard not to bite the bait, but it's
>> all
>> you can do, unless the person starts stalking you in real life.
>
> Well, when the abuser call friends to bully you for months even when you
> never reply or talk about them (that's was MS did) and that they are
> using servers with no abuse or a "friend" as abuse, it can become hard.
> UDP was a good thing, at least it had an influence on the rogue
> newsmasters.
>
>> If one is using a paid server, address your concerns to the NSP (News
>> SP). If one is using a free/private server, use their abuse channel, if
>> any, or/and move to another server. If you have problems with (a user
>> of) another server, use their abuse channel, if any, or filter posts
>> from that server.
>
> That does *not* solve the problem.
>
>> Finally, from the somewhat-funny department: I had to whitelist you,
>> because I filter gmail.com posters in this group because of the amount
>> of loons/etc..
>
> You are intolerant to Gmail but tolerant to abusers, what a strange way
> to see things. People are leaving usenet because it's not safe, but
> people here only seem to care about the tld in the mail. I won't go
> further, but I understand why you agree with llp, this must be Elon
> Musk's fan club :)

I have a completely outsider view of things but wonder if I am
correct. Having read some discussion in the past about this but I don't
read French and have to translate it, I ask if this is really about
political opinion?

When Marc left he said something about preferring Mastodon because I
guess they block some political opinion. Not sure if they do, but I think
he said something about it. And I saw he had nocems that called (fake
covid news). When I read some of the messages in the nocem it was just
someone saying the covid stuff was wrong or disagreeing with it.

Is when some people are saying usenet is dangerous is it mean
politically? I'd really like to know if it's just political disagreement
or not.

I have nothing to add here, I just have One Night in Bangkok stuck in my head:

Abusive cancel and the world's your oyster
The bars are temples but the pearls ain't free
Abusive cancel god in every golden cloister...
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Le 09/01/2024 à 16:23, victor a écrit :

> Is when some people are saying usenet is dangerous is it mean
> politically? I'd really like to know if it's just political disagreement
> or not.

You did not understand, but this is normal as it was your first post on
usenet :)

Le 09/01/2024 16:38, Eric M a écrit :
> Le 09/01/2024 à 16:23, victor a écrit :
>
>> Is when some people are saying usenet is dangerous is it mean
>> politically? I'd really like to know if it's just political disagreement
>> or not.
>
> You did not understand, but this is normal as it was your first post on
> usenet :)

:-D

--
Olivier Miakinen

On Tue, 09 Jan 24 15:38:21 +0000, Eric M wrote:

> Le 09/01/2024 à 16:23, victor a écrit :
>
>> Is when some people are saying usenet is dangerous is it mean
>> politically? I'd really like to know if it's just political
>> disagreement or not.
>
> You did not understand, but this is normal as it was your first post on
> usenet :)

What did I get wrong?

Le 09/01/2024 à 17:02, Olivier Miakinen a écrit :

>> You did not understand, but this is normal as it was your first post on
>> usenet :)
> :-D

Anonymous people always come to tell me I'm wrong like on french
newsgroups, strange :)
BTW, this proves they are hard to filter.

On Tue, 9 Jan 2024 15:23:01 -0000 (UTC), victor <victor@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>On Sun, 07 Jan 24 14:18:38 +0000, Eric M wrote:
>> Le 07/01/2024 a 15:01, Frank Slootweg a ecrit :
>>> I don't know the details of that specific situation, but I was and am
>>> talking in general. In general, if you filter/killfile/ignore the bully
>>> and don't respond to him, for all intents and purposes he doesn't
>>> exist.
snip
> Is when some people are saying usenet is dangerous is it mean
>politically? I'd really like to know if it's just political disagreement
>or not.

words like politics and religion seem like epithets compared with hypocrisy,
"do as i say, not as i do". . . those that rule the world live by the sword;
so anything and anyone that they believe could even possibly threaten their
worldly kingdom must be a bad thing and bad guy that they enact and enforce
laws against...not even the biblical jesus had any power to fight city hall

On Tue, 09 Jan 24 16:23:09 +0000, Eric M wrote:

> Le 09/01/2024 à 17:02, Olivier Miakinen a écrit :
>
>>> You did not understand, but this is normal as it was your first post
>>> on usenet :)
>
>> :-D
>
> Anonymous people always come to tell me I'm wrong like on french
> newsgroups, strange :)
> BTW, this proves they are hard to filter.

So it is political filter or no?

Le 09/01/2024 17:23, Eric M a écrit :
> Le 09/01/2024 à 17:02, Olivier Miakinen a écrit :
>
>>> You did not understand, but this is normal as it was your first post on
>>> usenet :)
>
>> :-D
>
> Anonymous people always come to tell me I'm wrong like on french
> newsgroups, strange :)

This is all the more strange when this anonymous has never written on Usenet,
and does not know how to read French, but knows how to quote someone (Marc
Schaefer) who wrote in French in French-speaking groups. And this anonymous is
so familiar with Marc Schaefer that he only quotes his first name, Marc.

So, so strange.

But please don't suspect LLP from being this anonymous, the poor LLP has been so
often accused of that, that he is all unhappy each time.

Also, do not make the link with the appearance of a new anonymous pseudo on
November 16, 2020, who came directly to harass me, before later changing his
pseudo from LaLibreParole to LLP.

--
Olivier Miakinen

Le 09/01/2024 à 17:34, victor a écrit :

> So it is political filter or no?

I will reply as if you were not one of my "friends".

No, it was never political, because you could disable every filter, that's
what you never understood, "victor".

Le 09/01/2024 à 17:57, Olivier Miakinen a écrit :

> This is all the more strange when this anonymous has never written on Usenet,
> and does not know how to read French, but knows how to quote someone (Marc
> Schaefer) who wrote in French in French-speaking groups. And this anonymous is
> so familiar with Marc Schaefer that he only quotes his first name, Marc.

He probably has been reading us for a long time and suddenly decided to
subscribe to nanau.
> So, so strange.
>
> But please don't suspect LLP from being this anonymous, the poor LLP has been so
> often accused of that, that he is all unhappy each time.

He has the same problem than LLP to understand how Alphanet worked, and he
tells exactly the same fake news, but let's not accuse him, he would say
we harass him :)
> Also, do not make the link with the appearance of a new anonymous pseudo on
> November 16, 2020, who came directly to harass me, before later changing his
> pseudo from LaLibreParole to LLP.

And Samsung01, Jean Martin, etc.
I suggest we do not answer here anymore as he is starting a new flame war,
the idea is probably to come back later with "llp" to say we are flooding
the group (with stats, he loves stats).

On Tue, 09 Jan 24 16:58:25 +0000, Eric M wrote:

> Le 09/01/2024 à 17:34, victor a écrit :
>
>> So it is political filter or no?
>
> I will reply as if you were not one of my "friends".
>
> No, it was never political, because you could disable every filter,
> that's what you never understood, "victor".

Thank you for replying. I am not sure I understand it was not
political because you could disable every filter. So if you couldn't
disable then the filter would be political?

I question was the filter messages meant to filter political opinions
or was it some other sort of abuse?

On Tue, 09 Jan 24 17:02:37 +0000, Eric M wrote:

> Le 09/01/2024 à 17:57, Olivier Miakinen a écrit :
>
>> This is all the more strange when this anonymous has never written on
>> Usenet, and does not know how to read French, but knows how to quote
>> someone (Marc Schaefer) who wrote in French in French-speaking groups.
>> And this anonymous is so familiar with Marc Schaefer that he only
>> quotes his first name, Marc.
>
> He probably has been reading us for a long time and suddenly decided to
> subscribe to nanau.
>
>> So, so strange.
>>
>> But please don't suspect LLP from being this anonymous, the poor LLP
>> has been so often accused of that, that he is all unhappy each time.
>
> He has the same problem than LLP to understand how Alphanet worked, and
> he tells exactly the same fake news, but let's not accuse him, he would
> say we harass him :)

It is true I am not new and I use anonymous really to not start an
argument, but maybe that was wrong to do.

I don't want to argue, I just want to know if the abuse was political
views or threats, which one. I want to know because I think filtering
political views is wrong but filtering threats is fine. The answer will
finally end my curiosity of what had been going on.

Le 27/12/2023 22:44, the anonymous llp wrote :
>
> I want to inform you that non-consensual global cancellations [...]
>
> Sincerely,
> Admin of news.usenet.ovh

It's time to come back to the facts.

The bot 'miakibot' cancels most spam and some flood on the French-speaking
hierarchy fr.*

This makes most of the users of several servers very happy: usenet-fr.net,
free.fr, paganini.bofh.team, nemoweb.net, pasdenom.info, previously aioe.org
and alphanet.ch, and also some personal one-user servers (for example
birotanews.mynetgear.com by Pierre Pallier).

Those who refuse cancellations have already chosen another server (for example
eternal-September.org or usenet.ovh), and they are the ones who protest about
cancellations although the cancellations do not affect them. Among them, almost
all anonymous, the most active is llp who has been harassing me since November
16, 2020. I never found out why, since I don't know what nickname he was using
before that date.

It's time to put an end to this masquerade. The cancellations are not abusive,
and above all they only affect certain servers whose users are quite happy for
them to exist. So let's let llp bark into the void and do not give him any more
importance than he deserves.

Thank you for your attention.

--
Olivier Miakinen

victor a utilisé son clavier pour écrire :
> On Tue, 09 Jan 24 17:02:37 +0000, Eric M wrote:
>
>> Le 09/01/2024 à 17:57, Olivier Miakinen a écrit :
>>
>>> This is all the more strange when this anonymous has never written on
>>> Usenet, and does not know how to read French, but knows how to quote
>>> someone (Marc Schaefer) who wrote in French in French-speaking groups.
>>> And this anonymous is so familiar with Marc Schaefer that he only
>>> quotes his first name, Marc.
>>
>> He probably has been reading us for a long time and suddenly decided to
>> subscribe to nanau.
>>
>>> So, so strange.
>>>
>>> But please don't suspect LLP from being this anonymous, the poor LLP
>>> has been so often accused of that, that he is all unhappy each time.
>>
>> He has the same problem than LLP to understand how Alphanet worked, and
>> he tells exactly the same fake news, but let's not accuse him, he would
>> say we harass him :)

Olivier and Eric M: two quasi-professional stalkers who see me in every
post. You seem obsessed with me. Should I be worried?

> It is true I am not new and I use anonymous really to not start an
> argument, but maybe that was wrong to do.
>
> I don't want to argue, I just want to know if the abuse was political
> views or threats, which one. I want to know because I think filtering
> political views is wrong but filtering threats is fine. The answer will
> finally end my curiosity of what had been going on.

Marc Schaefer is a Swiss politician.
He issued nocems for *every* message posted on fr.soc.politique.
He also issued nocems for every person who dared to contradict
him (or simply to doubt him), whether on a tehcnical group,
covid or the environment.

On the other hand, it should be pointed out that Marc's attempts
to control usenet-fr only began with covid and the first cancellations
from his server done by olivier miakinen. Before that, he was a very
decent person who worked for the usenet-fr community.

--
Admin of news.usenet.ovh

Olivier Miakinen a écrit :
> Le 27/12/2023 22:44, the anonymous llp wrote :
>>
>> I want to inform you that non-consensual global cancellations [...]
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Admin of news.usenet.ovh
>
> It's time to come back to the facts.

They have already been explained in my previous message.

> The bot 'miakibot' cancels most spam and some flood
> on the French-speaking hierarchy fr.*

As long as you canceled only true spam, everyone supported you.
But you're doing something else.

When you started messing around and cancelling things you didn't
like (as Pierre Aribaut's 3600 cancellations, one year's worth of
theme messages deleted in one go), many users told you so.
But you've continued your abuse and you're surprised by the reactions.

> This makes most of the users of several servers very happy:

>usenet-fr.net,

Very happy ?
you are a user of this server, but you use another server to cancel.
Why not use this server if he's so happy with your work?

> free.fr, [cut]

A lot of users from free.fr use now Eternal-Sptember to be protected
from your cancellations on free.fr.
The admin of "free.fr" never tell you to do anything.
You've taken advantage of the fact that this server is virtually
unmanaged. And that's not good.

> Those who refuse cancellations have already chosen another server
> (for example eternal-September.org or usenet.ovh),

Those who want cancellations can use Paganini or usenet-fr !!

It's not normal to have to leave "free.fr" a server we were happy
with, because of you.

> [cut]
> It's time to put an end to this masquerade.
> The cancellations are not abusive, and above all they only affect
> certain servers whose users are quite happy for them to exist.

Except that it's not the true.

> So let's let llp bark into the void and do not give
> him any more importance than he deserves.

So, yes, it's really time to put an end to this masquerade.

Stop your illegitimate cancellations, which are accepted on very few
servers anyway, or use, as you've already been advised, Nocems.

But you won't do it because you really want to piss off the users
of the free.fr server and take advantage of its non-administration
for years.

--
Admin of news.usenet.ovh

On Tue, 09 Jan 2024 19:10:32 +0100, llp wrote:

> victor a utilisé son clavier pour écrire :
>> On Tue, 09 Jan 24 17:02:37 +0000, Eric M wrote:
>>
>>> Le 09/01/2024 à 17:57, Olivier Miakinen a écrit :
>>>
>>>> This is all the more strange when this anonymous has never written on
>>>> Usenet, and does not know how to read French, but knows how to quote
>>>> someone (Marc Schaefer) who wrote in French in French-speaking
>>>> groups.
>>>> And this anonymous is so familiar with Marc Schaefer that he only
>>>> quotes his first name, Marc.
>>>
>>> He probably has been reading us for a long time and suddenly decided
>>> to subscribe to nanau.
>>>
>>>> So, so strange.
>>>>
>>>> But please don't suspect LLP from being this anonymous, the poor LLP
>>>> has been so often accused of that, that he is all unhappy each time.
>>>
>>> He has the same problem than LLP to understand how Alphanet worked,
>>> and he tells exactly the same fake news, but let's not accuse him, he
>>> would say we harass him :)
>
> Olivier and Eric M: two quasi-professional stalkers who see me in every
> post. You seem obsessed with me. Should I be worried?
>
>> It is true I am not new and I use anonymous really to not start an
>> argument, but maybe that was wrong to do.
>>
>> I don't want to argue, I just want to know if the abuse was
>> political
>> views or threats, which one. I want to know because I think filtering
>> political views is wrong but filtering threats is fine. The answer will
>> finally end my curiosity of what had been going on.
>
> Marc Schaefer is a Swiss politician.
> He issued nocems for *every* message posted on fr.soc.politique.
> He also issued nocems for every person who dared to contradict him (or
> simply to doubt him), whether on a tehcnical group,
> covid or the environment.
>
> On the other hand, it should be pointed out that Marc's attempts to
> control usenet-fr only began with covid and the first cancellations from
> his server done by olivier miakinen. Before that, he was a very decent
> person who worked for the usenet-fr community.

Thank you, this answers my question and supports my theory that the
cancellations were politically motivated. It is a sad thing to see on
Usenet. It too explains why others would not answer my simple question.

llp wrote:

> It's not normal to have to leave "free.fr" a server we were happy
> with, because of you.

What a joke. Due to the desynchronization of its front-end servers,
news.free.fr is a disaster, and has been for months. From one connection
to the next, hundreds of newsgroups appear or disappear from the list
and the same goes for the articles posted. I wonder how many people
might be happy with this broken server.

This is the reason why many users have left news.free.fr. It has nothing
to do with your fantasies.

--
Denis

Serveurs de news et passerelles web : <http://usenet-fr.yakakwatik.org>
Lecteurs de news : <http://usenet-fr.yakakwatik.org/lecteurs-de-news.html>

DV a écrit :
> llp wrote:
>
>> It's not normal to have to leave "free.fr" a server we were happy
>> with, because of you.
>
> What a joke. Due to the desynchronization of its front-end servers,
> news.free.fr is a disaster, and has been for months. From one connection
> to the next, hundreds of newsgroups appear or disappear from the list
> and the same goes for the articles posted. I wonder how many people
> might be happy with this broken server.
>
> This is the reason why many users have left news.free.fr. It has nothing
> to do with your fantasies.

Ask Pierre aribaut whose Olivier erased an entire year's worth
of messages in one go...

And thousands of users are still using "free.fr".
It's the first and the main french-language nntp server.

--
Admin of news.usenet.ovh

Le 09/01/2024 à 22:52, llp a écrit :

> And thousands of users are still using "free.fr".
> It's the first and the main french-language nntp server.

So finally this cancels are useful :)

llp wrote:

> Ask Pierre aribaut whose Olivier erased an entire year's worth
> of messages in one go...

I remember putting a spammer with that name in my kill-file a long time
ago. Was this the one you're talking about? The one who placed his
website addresses everywhere he could, including in his Reply-To field?

> And thousands of users are still using "free.fr".
> It's the first and the main french-language nntp server.

Yeah, there must even be millions of happy news.free.fr users.

--
Denis

Serveurs de news et passerelles web : <http://usenet-fr.yakakwatik.org>
Lecteurs de news : <http://usenet-fr.yakakwatik.org/lecteurs-de-news.html>

Eric M <conanospamic@gmail.com> wrote:

> And people are running away from usenet too. Nobody wants to contribute to
> something that only brings you threats and insults.

I don't think it's the main reason.

> And this also applies to newsmasters, I ran a server for a week and I
> stopped because it carried only awful messages, it wasn't worth it.

What groups did you carry?

My server carries all kinds of messages. Some are valuable discussions,
some are endless flamewars, depending on a group. But I don't care, as
long as the content is legal (or I can identify the poster if I'm asked
to, or otherwise comply with any legal demands).

llp <contact@usenet.ovh> wrote:

> Marc Schaefer is a Swiss politician.
> He issued nocems for *every* message posted on fr.soc.politique.

Apart from politics. Is Usenet really that popular in France? Here in
Poland it's very niche, too niche for any politician to care or even know
about its current existence.

On 1/9/24 15:50, D wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Jan 24 08:23:42 +0000, Eric M <conanospamic@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Le 09/01/2024 a 01:01, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) a ecrit :
>>> You can watch any of the many online services that attempt to eject abusers
>>> in order to see how ineffective that process is.
>>
>> I'm watching Twitter/x, no moderators left and the people are running
>> away.
>>
>>> The Usenet method may not be perfect, but it's been working effectively for
>>> decades.
>>
>> And people are running away from usenet too. Nobody wants to contribute to
>> something that only brings you threats and insults. And this also applies
>> to newsmasters, I ran a server for a week and I stopped because it carried
>> only awful messages, it wasn't worth it. So you can do like everything is
>> normal and just watch the people leave (or die, this happens), or you can
>> try to change things for the better.
>
> social media is moderated . . . pacifists are powerless against activists
>

Pacifism is a kind of activism - refusal to fight, even when ordered to.
You're getting your words mixed up.

Sometimes users are powerless against moderators. Other times users are
powerless against spammers. Other times moderators and users are
powerless against spammers.

On 1/9/24 16:23, victor wrote:
> When Marc left he said something about preferring Mastodon because I
> guess they block some political opinion.

Mastodon is software, like InterNetNews. Different servers have their
own censorship policies and you can also block/killfile people.

Not sure if they do, but I think
> he said something about it. And I saw he had nocems that called (fake
> covid news). When I read some of the messages in the nocem it was just
> someone saying the covid stuff was wrong or disagreeing with it.
>
> Is when some people are saying usenet is dangerous is it mean
> politically? I'd really like to know if it's just political disagreement
> or not.

Political disagreement doesn't always stop at words. I "politically
disagree" with flat earthers, because they're no threat. But the likes
of Trumpers and COVIdiots are real threats with real effects on the real
world.

We passed through the age of information into the age of disinformation,
where false information is frequently propagated with the intent of
causing people to taking real actions to their own detriment (and the
benefit of whoever posted it).

Even in the domain of pure words, cyber-bullying is a real thing. When
the main thing someone sees on their screen for months is social
disapproval, it can - in the worst cases - drive them to suicide. (And
no, blaming them for their own suicide is not constructive. You might
the same if *everyone you interacted with for two years* hated your guts.)

Even if not everyone in the world hates you, the people who do hate you
can be motivated enough to flood your inbox enough to make it look like
they do. They can create large numbers of sockpuppet accounts and large
numbers of messages.