Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
By: Dream Master to Nelgin on Mon May 03 2021 08:13 am

I use picocom. It's got enough command line switches to
warrant a shell script to launch it.

Will convert line endings on the fly; supports ascii-xfr.

I use it to talk to microcontrollers via USART or USB
(CDC/ACM stuff).

I have no idea if it'll telnet or ssh.

Sometimes I'll try tinyfugue by .. I don't remember .. at
some point I'm pretty sure I need to be listening for telnet
inbound connections to use tinyfugue effectively (because it
was designed to talk to telnet destinations such as LambdaMOO).

So I probably /world localhost or similar to telnet to the
(Linux) locahost. When I get a shell prompt (split screen,
like IRSSI for example) I can then ssh out to a BBS on the
Internet.

SCREEN is great if you have a shell account on someone else's
machine, because of the detach/attach feature; it lets you
stay logged into a BBS that doesn't time out your session,
even when your modem has dropped carrier (including shutting
down a DSL modem for any reason you may want to do so).

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-=> poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Gamgee <=-

Ga> For you Linux users... what's your pick - screen or tmux, and why?

pF> Tmux - it just makes more sense to me. I'm a little late to the
pF> game, playing more with screen multiplexers now. Where I used to
pF> open a couple of Putty sessions, I can now do everything with one
pF> session and Tmux.

Well, to be fair, it sounds like you could also do that with one session
and screen.

The question is why would one choose one or the other (tmux or screen)?

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-=> Gamgee wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Ga> The question is why would one choose one or the other (tmux or screen)?

<flips coin>

I'm on tilde.club and someone on there wrote a nice HOWTO on using tmux.
Once I started googling tmux, my google news feed was *filled* with helpful
web sites outlining how to use it.

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-=> poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Gamgee <=-

pF> @MSGID: <609333BF.2679.dove.dove-nix@realitycheckbbs.org>
pF> @REPLY: <60919499.428.dove-unix@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
-=> Gamgee wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Ga> The question is why would one choose one or the other (tmux or screen)?

pF> <flips coin>

pF> I'm on tilde.club and someone on there wrote a nice HOWTO on using
pF> tmux. Once I started googling tmux, my google news feed was *filled*
pF> with helpful web sites outlining how to use it.

It tmux had zmodem support, I would switch, but it doesn't. I am actually
using tmux now to try it out. I actually find it useful for a quick file
transfer, its a little more convienient than using SSH or netcat.

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Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
By: Boraxman to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu May 06 2021 08:04 am

> -=> poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Gamgee <=-
>
> pF> @MSGID: <609333BF.2679.dove.dove-nix@realitycheckbbs.org>
> pF> @REPLY: <60919499.428.dove-unix@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
> -=> Gamgee wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
>
> Ga> The question is why would one choose one or the other (tmux or screen)?
>
> pF> <flips coin>
>
> pF> I'm on tilde.club and someone on there wrote a nice HOWTO on using
> pF> tmux. Once I started googling tmux, my google news feed was *filled*
> pF> with helpful web sites outlining how to use it.
>
> It tmux had zmodem support, I would switch, but it doesn't. I am actually using tm
> now to try it out. I actually find it useful for a quick file transfer, its a litt
> more convienient than using SSH or netcat.
>
> ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!

I used c-kermit under tmux for a while in order to handle XYZModem stuff for a while.
It works ok. Still it looks like the process is a bit more streamlined under screen,
or that is the memory I have from when I looked into the documentation.

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Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Gamgee on Fri Apr 30 2021 06:59 am

> -=> Gamgee wrote to All <=-
>
> Ga> For you Linux users... what's your pick - screen or tmux, and why?
>
> Tmux - it just makes more sense to me. I'm a little late to the game,
> playing more with screen multiplexers now. Where I used to open a couple of
> Putty sessions, I can now do everything with one session and Tmux.

Honestly I think you're in a good position. I use screen because I've been
around for a while and screen was the first really decent terminal
multiplexer. The codebase for GNU Screen is pretty gnarly and there's not a
lot of substantial development on it to speak of. tmux has a cleaner (and
smaller/simpler) codebase and attracts more development.

I tried tmux once and it was fine. I spent all my time configuration it to
work like screen and thought "well, this is pointless, I'll just use screen".
I think if I were coming into it new and didn't have any habits and
muscle-memory built up, I would start with tmux, though.

I'll use screen until I need something screen can't do, and then I'll switch
to tmux, I think.

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-=> Ksource wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Ks> @MSGID: <60A218E4.5774.dove-nix@cavebbs.homeip.net>
Ks> @REPLY: <60914C34.2674.dove.dove-nix@realitycheckbbs.org>
Ks> Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
Ks> By: poindexter FORTRAN to Gamgee
Ks> on Fri Apr 30 2021 06:59 am

> -=> Gamgee wrote to All <=-
>
> Ga> For you Linux users... what's your pick - screen or tmux, and why?
>
> Tmux - it just makes more sense to me. I'm a little late to the game,
> playing more with screen multiplexers now. Where I used to open a couple of
> Putty sessions, I can now do everything with one session and Tmux.

Ks> Honestly I think you're in a good position. I use screen because I've
Ks> been around for a while and screen was the first really decent terminal
Ks> multiplexer. The codebase for GNU Screen is pretty gnarly and there's
Ks> not a lot of substantial development on it to speak of. tmux has a
Ks> cleaner (and smaller/simpler) codebase and attracts more development.

Ks> I tried tmux once and it was fine. I spent all my time configuration it
Ks> to work like screen and thought "well, this is pointless, I'll just use
Ks> screen". I think if I were coming into it new and didn't have any
Ks> habits and muscle-memory built up, I would start with tmux, though.

Ks> I'll use screen until I need something screen can't do, and then I'll
Ks> switch to tmux, I think.

I've started trying Tmux in place of Screen, and I like it, but for the most
part, screen has all the functionality I need anyway, and the zmodem support
that screen has is actually more useful than you think.

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On 2021-04-30, Gamgee <gamgee@PALANT> wrote:
>
> For you Linux users... what's your pick - screen or tmux, and why?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> ... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
> --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
>

Tmux user here, because of OpenBSD base and well, I set
a clonic OpenBSD base under Void Linux, with very close
config and constraints. As a plug, I have framebuffer
support for SDL(2), mplayer, mpv, fbi, fbpdf2 and fbdjvu.
For comic books, I use fbi+a script to uncompress the files,
and for IM, bitlbee+kirc work well, among links,s-nail and
getmail.
I've been weeks without X, and I won't miss it. Groff+Mom
typesets math perfectly, gnuplot is dumb easy and sc-im
and catdoc and/or antiword will do the same on docx/rtf/
xls files.
Current games require 16GB of RAM, a 20x more powerful GPU
and a 10x better CPU, so that's a no-no for me.
Slashem, interactive fiction and mednafen could keep me busy
for years.

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-=> anthk wrote to Gamgee <=-

an> @MSGID: <614B942D.11157.dove-lnx@vert.synchro.net>
an> @REPLY: <608B54B9.392.dove-unix@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
an> On 2021-04-30, Gamgee <gamgee@PALANT> wrote:
>
> For you Linux users... what's your pick - screen or tmux, and why?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> ... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
> --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
>

an> Tmux user here, because of OpenBSD base and well, I set
an> a clonic OpenBSD base under Void Linux, with very close
an> config and constraints. As a plug, I have framebuffer
an> support for SDL(2), mplayer, mpv, fbi, fbpdf2 and fbdjvu.
an> For comic books, I use fbi+a script to uncompress the files,
an> and for IM, bitlbee+kirc work well, among links,s-nail and
an> getmail.
an> I've been weeks without X, and I won't miss it. Groff+Mom
an> typesets math perfectly, gnuplot is dumb easy and sc-im
an> and catdoc and/or antiword will do the same on docx/rtf/
an> xls files.
an> Current games require 16GB of RAM, a 20x more powerful GPU
an> and a 10x better CPU, so that's a no-no for me.
an> Slashem, interactive fiction and mednafen could keep me busy
an> for years.
an> 
an> ---

Using tmux at the moment, but I'm pretty ambivalent about whether I use screen
or tmux. I'm using tmux because the keybindings on how to split a screen are
fresh in my head, I don't remember them for screen. I have a menu set to SSH
into particular servers, and those shortcuts set up a terminal with screen.
Screen has ZMODEM support which I do use.

However I've found that systemd now terminates all your processes when you log
out, including detached screen and tmux sessions!

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Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
By: Boraxman to anthk on Thu Sep 23 2021 05:47 pm

> screen are fresh in my head, I don't remember them for screen. I have a
> menu set to SSH into particular servers, and those shortcuts set up a
> terminal with screen. Screen has ZMODEM support which I do use.

how do you even use zmodem with screen?
do you just run it on auto in the screen session?
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-=> MRO wrote to Boraxman <=-

MR> @MSGID: <614C9155.779.dove-nix@bbses.info>
MR> @REPLY: <614C312F.2856.dove-nix@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
MR> Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
MR> By: Boraxman to anthk on Thu Sep 23 2021 05:47 pm

> screen are fresh in my head, I don't remember them for screen. I have a
> menu set to SSH into particular servers, and those shortcuts set up a
> terminal with screen. Screen has ZMODEM support which I do use.

You enable zmodem with the "zmodem catch" config option. This will detect and
zmodem escape sequences. When it detects one, screen will then prompt you to
run the corresponding sz/rz command at your end.

So how it works is this. You start screen, then ssh/telnet to the remote
server. On the remote server you initiate either rz or sz depending on whether
you want to send or receive, and screen will then bring up a prompt with sz or
rz, allowing you to run then on the local end. When you accept that command,
the transfer proceeds.

Its convienient when you ssh to a remote server, and just want to send an adhoc
file back or forth.

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Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
By: Boraxman to MRO on Fri Sep 24 2021 03:31 pm

> whether you want to send or receive, and screen will then bring up a prompt
> with sz or rz, allowing you to run then on the local end. When you accept
> that command, the transfer proceeds.
>
> Its convienient when you ssh to a remote server, and just want to send an
> adhoc file back or forth.

oh, i made a script that i use with winscp.com for sending files to my server.
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-=> MRO wrote to Boraxman <=-

MR> @MSGID: <614DDFD8.781.dove-nix@bbses.info>
MR> @REPLY: <614D645B.2858.dove-nix@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
MR> Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
MR> By: Boraxman to MRO on Fri Sep 24 2021 03:31 pm

> whether you want to send or receive, and screen will then bring up a prompt
> with sz or rz, allowing you to run then on the local end. When you accept
> that command, the transfer proceeds.
>
> Its convienient when you ssh to a remote server, and just want to send an
> adhoc file back or forth.

MR> oh, i made a script that i use with winscp.com for sending files to my
MR> server. ---

I use Linux, so SCP is an option, but it means starting another shell to run
the command. Zmodem means I can do it within the shell.

For Windows users, you can use LePutty, which is Putty with zmodem support.
Wouldn't have thought it would still be useful, but it is.

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-=> Boraxman wrote to MRO <=-

> whether you want to send or receive, and screen will then bring up a prompt
> with sz or rz, allowing you to run then on the local end. When you accept
> that command, the transfer proceeds.
>
> Its convienient when you ssh to a remote server, and just want to send an
> adhoc file back or forth.

MR> oh, i made a script that i use with winscp.com for sending files to my
MR> server.

Bo> I use Linux, so SCP is an option, but it means starting another
Bo> shell to run the command. Zmodem means I can do it within the
Bo> shell.

Did not know about this ability within screen. Very cool. Just tried
it and it works perfectly.

Thanks for bringing this up.

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Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
By: Gamgee to Boraxman on Sat Sep 25 2021 09:55 am

>> whether you want to send or receive, and screen will then bring up a
>> prompt with sz or rz, allowing you to run then on the local end.
>> When you accept that command, the transfer proceeds.

>> Its convienient when you ssh to a remote server, and just want to
>> send an adhoc file back or forth.

MR>> oh, i made a script that i use with winscp.com for sending files to
MR>> my server.

Bo>> I use Linux, so SCP is an option, but it means starting another
Bo>> shell to run the command. Zmodem means I can do it within the
Bo>> shell.

Ga> Did not know about this ability within screen. Very cool. Just tried
Ga> it and it works perfectly.

I use MobaXTerm in windows which has a small built-in scp gui where you can click/drag files to transfer them. It's not free, but it's well worth it, especially when you have to deal with and organize over a thousand different servers.

DaiTengu

.... She drowned at the end of her life.

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-=> DaiTengu wrote to Gamgee <=-

Bo>> I use Linux, so SCP is an option, but it means starting another
Bo>> shell to run the command. Zmodem means I can do it within the
Bo>> shell.

Ga> Did not know about this ability within screen. Very cool. Just tried
Ga> it and it works perfectly.

Da> I use MobaXTerm in windows which has a small built-in scp gui
Da> where you can click/drag files to transfer them. It's not free,
Da> but it's well worth it, especially when you have to deal with and
Da> organize over a thousand different servers.

Thankfully, Windows is not something I have to deal with.

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-=> DaiTengu wrote to Gamgee <=-

Da> I use MobaXTerm in windows which has a small built-in scp gui where
Da> you can click/drag files to transfer them. It's not free, but it's
Da> well worth it, especially when you have to deal with and organize over
Da> a thousand different servers.

I'll have to take another look at MobaXTerm. We're using a combination of
Putty, WinSCP and an autologin plugin for Keepass that's nice.

Keys most places to autologin, and Keepass to automate SSH/RDP elsewhere.

I wish there was an easy way to package Putty destinations and share them,
we have 10 developers and it'd be nice to package all of the usual hosts
when I image systems for them.

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Hello poindexter;

-=> poindexter FORTRAN wrote to DaiTengu <=-

Da> It's not free

I've used it in the past and my copies were free. They requested you purchased
it of course but it wasn't crippled.

pF> I'll have to take another look at MobaXTerm. We're using a combination
pF> of Putty, WinSCP and an autologin plugin for Keepass that's nice.

Of course, you can write your own shell script I'm sure. Perhaps rsync may be
of assistance?

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Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
By: Gamgee to DaiTengu on Sat Sep 25 2021 08:40 pm

Bo>>> I use Linux, so SCP is an option, but it means starting another
Bo>>> shell to run the command. Zmodem means I can do it within the
Bo>>> shell.

Ga>> Did not know about this ability within screen. Very cool. Just
Ga>> tried it and it works perfectly.

Da>> I use MobaXTerm in windows which has a small built-in scp gui
Da>> where you can click/drag files to transfer them. It's not free,
Da>> but it's well worth it, especially when you have to deal with and
Da>> organize over a thousand different servers.

Ga> Thankfully, Windows is not something I have to deal with.

I use Windows on my primary computer, as I play video games, and a lot of the ham radio stuff I have also requires windows (getting any of that stuff to run reliably under WINE is a nightmare I don't want to deal with).

The other 6 computers sitting around me are all running some flavor of Linux, and one runs BSD.

DaiTengu

.... A bachelor never makes the same mistake once.

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Re: Re: Screen or tmux?
By: poindexter FORTRAN to DaiTengu on Sun Sep 26 2021 10:53 am

PF> I wish there was an easy way to package Putty destinations and share them,
PF> we have 10 developers and it'd be nice to package all of the usual hosts
PF> when I image systems for them.

It should be pretty easy to create a web page with links to all the servers people need to access. a browser can auto-launch PuTTY. They'd just need to make sure their key was loaded.

DaiTengu

.... But soft, what light through yonder tagline breaks?

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-=> DaiTengu wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Da> It should be pretty easy to create a web page with links to all the
Da> servers people need to access. a browser can auto-launch PuTTY. They'd
Da> just need to make sure their key was loaded.

I've been playing with Dashy on my home lab; I've got a destination web page
at work on our outward-facing reverse proxy that could easily be a web page
inside the firewall, accessible via VPN. That might be a nice project.

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-=> Quoting poindexter FORTRAN to DaiTengu <=-

pF> I wish there was an easy way to package Putty destinations and share
pF> them, we have 10 developers and it'd be nice to package all of the
pF> usual hosts when I image systems for them.

It's been a while, but you may be able to copy the settings from a
subdirectory of %localappdata% or %programdata%, then propagate them to
the other systems in whatever your favorite method is.

Jazzy J

* AmyBW v2.16 *
.... Afraid of speed? Use Windows!

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