Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Kaelon to Boraxman on Tue May 03 2022 07:57 am

> 2. The family tree software, which was legacy DOS and never ported or
> migrated, is impossible to find now and it's a relic. He may have it in

Family Tree Maker by chance? I had the same/similar experience.
--
digital man (rob)

Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #51:
MODEM = Modulator/Demodulator
Norco, CA WX: 58.8°F, 78.0% humidity, 4 mph SSE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
---
■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Digital Man to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 10:16 pm

> > 2. The family tree software, which was legacy DOS and never ported or
> > migrated, is impossible to find now and it's a relic. He may have it in
>
> Family Tree Maker by chance? I had the same/similar experience.

Actually, I think that's the one. I'll have to check with my dad; he's off on a geriatric escape with fellow old fogeys to Spain, and I know he's thinking about the family tree stuff.

I wonder what, if anything, we can do to read the data and convert it. Definitely a project worth him undertaking and me helping him out; the insights there are priceless.
_____
-=: Kaelon :=-

---
■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Nightfox to Boraxman on Tue May 03 2022 12:45 pm

> Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
> By: Boraxman to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 06:34 pm
>
> Bo> I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I would
> Bo> wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all
> Bo> the BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now
> Bo> lost forever?
>
> When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it onto a
> CD-R. Last I checked (just a few years ago), that CD-R is still readable.
>

it's readable until it isn't. it depends on that day in the factory, the media type, your drive, and the environment it's in.

even in a perfect environment i had cds rot
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Resurgence of non-mai
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Boraxman on Tue May 03 2022 08:30 am

> Subject: Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
> @MSGID: <627151ED.5121.dove.dove-int@realitycheckbbs.org>
> @REPLY: <6270F7AE.5359.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
> @TZ: c1e0
> -=> Boraxman wrote to Kaelon <=-
>
> Ka> I love this practice, and genuinely, wish I would adopt it more often
> Ka> myself. Of course, the loss of Geocities was tremendous because
> Ka> virtually all of those sites were filled with really interesting
> Ka> information from amateurs and professionals alike. True subject matter
> Ka> experts are passionate and know their topics really well, and when you
> Ka> see them provide insight, it's a joy to read and review.
>
> Wordpress.com is a good starting point, they have a great UI, free plans,
> and you can export your data to your self-hosted wordpress instance when
> you're ready.
>
> I've captured information for posterity, shared photos, and written a FAQ
> that are all hosted on a site I started in 2000.
>
> Bo> I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I would
> Bo> wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all
> Bo> the BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now
> Bo> lost forever?
>
> I so wish I spent more money on data storage back in the 90s and kept better
> backups. As it is, I have a backup from 1994 and 1999, and that's it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bo> --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
> Bo>  Synchronet MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
>
> ... A journey of a thousand sandwiches begins with a single cut.

My cousin kept hard copies of important emails and other documents in a fire
resistant safe in his office in case of emergency. The safe was lost along
with everything else on the 35th floor of building one at the World Trade
Center. The day after 9/11/01 he went back to work at their backup facility
on Long Island. The backup facility was created because of the 1993 WTC
garage bombing.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Nightfox to Boraxman on Tue May 03 2022 12:45 pm

> Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
> By: Boraxman to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 06:34 pm
>
> Bo> I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I would
> Bo> wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all
> Bo> BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now lost
> Bo> forever?
>
> When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it onto a CD-
>
> Nightfox
>
You're lucky. Some older burnt CD's are fussy with regards to readers, and
some de-laminated over time.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

-=> Kaelon wrote to Boraxman <=-

Ka> @MSGID: <627142DE.8494.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>
Ka> @REPLY: <6270F7AE.5359.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Ka> Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
Ka> By: Boraxman to Kaelon on
Ka> Tue May 03 2022 06:34 pm

> I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I would
> wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all the
> BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now lost
> forever?

Ka> Very well stated. And this is the tragedy, really, of our current
Ka> digital ecosystem. In the late 1980s, my dad interviewed the entire
Ka> family and built a comprehensive family tree stretching back into the
Ka> 1400s -- which he then reconciled with Church records in Spain to go
Ka> back even further! -- but he stored it on tape backup.

Ka> Two problems:

Ka> 1. The tape backup, which for all you know may still be readable,
Ka> depends upon hardware that is no longer produced.

Ka> 2. The family tree software, which was legacy DOS and never ported or
Ka> migrated, is impossible to find now and it's a relic. He may have it in
Ka> disks somewhere, but it's probably 5 1/4" disks rather than the
Ka> somewhat-more-manageable 3 1/2", which also poses other media problems.

Ka> Between the loss of media inter-operability and format / software
Ka> conversion, that entire labor - and the wealth of family knowledge from
Ka> relatives who have since passed on - is, as far as the rest of the
Ka> family is concerned, totally lost.

Ka> How do we even begin to solve problems as large as human history's
Ka> recorded deficit, when we can't even deal with the BBS'es from the
Ka> 1990s or family trees from the 1980s? _____

That is such a shame... I've moved away from proprietary software and
propreitary formats, to storing important data in as an accessible format as
you can. Plain text, or markup, or some schema that is still plain text (ie,
XML or even an Emacs ORG mode file).

You may lose the software which manages it, but a text editor can still reveal
the data.

--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org

-=> poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Boraxman <=-

pF> @MSGID: <627151ED.5121.dove.dove-int@realitycheckbbs.org>
pF> @REPLY: <6270F7AE.5359.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
-=> Boraxman wrote to Kaelon <=-

Ka> I love this practice, and genuinely, wish I would adopt it more often
Ka> myself. Of course, the loss of Geocities was tremendous because
Ka> virtually all of those sites were filled with really interesting
Ka> information from amateurs and professionals alike. True subject matter
Ka> experts are passionate and know their topics really well, and when you
Ka> see them provide insight, it's a joy to read and review.

pF> Wordpress.com is a good starting point, they have a great UI, free
pF> plans, and you can export your data to your self-hosted wordpress
pF> instance when you're ready.

pF> I've captured information for posterity, shared photos, and written a
pF> FAQ that are all hosted on a site I started in 2000.

I have used wordpress sites, but not wordpress.com. It is pretty good, and
easy to get up and running. I have a half developed site, but decided to just
go with plain HTML and CSS.

Bo> I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I would
Bo> wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all
Bo> the BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now
Bo> lost forever?

pF> I so wish I spent more money on data storage back in the 90s and kept
pF> better backups. As it is, I have a backup from 1994 and 1999, and
pF> that's it.

Same, though in the 90's I didn't have money, being a student. I wish I kept
the school work I did and bought more floppies to back things up I though I
didn't need anymore. But the hard drive I had was tiny, and I had no where
else but some floppies to put things, and they were limited. I have most of my
files from back then, going back to the stuff on 360K disks, but for some
reason, files I created myself I've been more willing to just delete when the
school work or project was handed in. I really regret taping over my tape of
Commodore 64 programs I wrote.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Boraxman to Kaelon on Wed May 04 2022 08:41 pm

> That is such a shame... I've moved away from proprietary software and
> propreitary formats, to storing important data in as an accessible format as
> you can. Plain text, or markup, or some schema that is still plain text
> (ie, XML or even an Emacs ORG mode file).
>
> You may lose the software which manages it, but a text editor can still
> reveal the data.

I love this, and it's so true. I have a lot of WordPerfect 5.1 documents that, fortunately, I can still read on DOSBox, but if I just save them in standard plain text, I'll at least never have to worry about having to access that content through an interpreter that may, for all we know, suddenly stop working in some not-so-distant future.
_____
-=: Kaelon :=-

---
■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Nightfox to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 03:55 pm

> Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
> By: Kaelon to Nightfox on Tue May 03 2022 03:23 pm
>
> >> When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it onto
> >> a CD-R. Last I checked (just a few years ago), that CD-R is still
> >> readable.
>
> Ka> Consider submitting it to the Internet Archive. They readily accept
> Ka> data donations, including software and underlying packages, for
> Ka> posterity.
>
> That's an idea. It has registered copies of some software though (including
> RemoteAccess, a FTN mail tosser, and a copule registered BBS doors which I
> still run on my current BBS).

Be sure to wipe passwords, phone numers, etc. too.
--
digital man (rob)

Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #81:
Telenet = Proprietary packet switched network (variant on X.75)
Norco, CA WX: 74.1°F, 48.0% humidity, 2 mph E wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
---
■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Kaelon to Digital Man on Tue May 03 2022 10:45 pm

> Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
> By: Digital Man to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 10:16 pm
>
> > > 2. The family tree software, which was legacy DOS and never ported or
> > > migrated, is impossible to find now and it's a relic. He may have it
> > > in
>
> > Family Tree Maker by chance? I had the same/similar experience.
>
> Actually, I think that's the one. I'll have to check with my dad; he's off
> on a geriatric escape with fellow old fogeys to Spain, and I know he's
> thinking about the family tree stuff.
>
> I wonder what, if anything, we can do to read the data and convert it.
> Definitely a project worth him undertaking and me helping him out; the
> insights there are priceless.

My grandmother, in my case, collected all the data and stories into a word
processor (Galaxy) and FTM. We helped her to print the entire tree on a dot matrix printer and then taped the pages together. Fun project, but not sure how much of that effort remains in a useable form. Now with 23andme and Ancestry, they can automate much of that work (through bloodlines, at least).
--
digital man (rob)

Sling Blade quote #16:
Karl Childers (to Doyle, re: lawn mower blade): I aim to kill you with it. Mmm.
Norco, CA WX: 74.1°F, 48.0% humidity, 2 mph E wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
---
■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Digital Man to Kaelon on Wed May 04 2022 11:18 am

> My grandmother, in my case, collected all the data and stories into a word
> processor (Galaxy) and FTM. We helped her to print the entire tree on a dot
> matrix printer and then taped the pages together. Fun project, but not sure
> how much of that effort remains in a useable form. Now with 23andme and
> Ancestry, they can automate much of that work (through bloodlines, at
> least).

Yes. I am definitely a big fan of those services and enjoy using them to trace my European lineage.

One of the reasons why we interviewed all of our elderly relatives, including great grandmother and great aunts and uncles on all lines, is that all of my family lines lead back to Spain by way of Cuba. Unfortunately, Ancestry.com and 23andMe largely rely upon North American census and service records, whereas much of the Caribbean and Mediterranean world relies upon handwritten -- and un-indexed! -- Church records, namely, baptisms, marriage certificates, and the like.

_____
-=: Kaelon :=-

---
■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net

-=> MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-

MR> @MSGID: <627231D5.1252.dove-int@bbses.info>
MR> @REPLY: <6271866E.5586.dove_dove-int@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
MR> Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
MR> By: Nightfox to Boraxman on Tue May 03 2022 12:45 pm

> Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
> By: Boraxman to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 06:34 pm
>
> Bo> I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I would
> Bo> wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all
> Bo> the BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now
> Bo> lost forever?
>
> When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it onto a
> CD-R. Last I checked (just a few years ago), that CD-R is still readable.
>

MR> it's readable until it isn't. it depends on that day in the factory,
MR> the media type, your drive, and the environment it's in.

MR> even in a perfect environment i had cds rot

Mine are all good, including DVD's, except for a few which have deteriorated
around the edges. A bad lot from one spindle.

But the last time you checked, may be the last time you could have ever read
the disk, so it is best to move them to Hard Drive and make a backup of the
Hard Drive if you don't want to lose the files.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org

-=> Boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Bo> I have used wordpress sites, but not wordpress.com. It is pretty good,
Bo> and easy to get up and running. I have a half developed site, but
Bo> decided to just go with plain HTML and CSS.

There's a package called Blosxsom that had promise - you leave text
files in a directory on a web server and Blosxom formats it, adds
headers/footers/sidebars/styles.

I like that idea.

I know there are a ton of static web page generators, WP is typically
overkill for most.

It would be nice for people to get back to publishing their own
content again, although if you're looking to get your writing seen,
you're better off on Medium or Substack.

.... Towards the insignificant
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
� Synchronet � .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.

-=> poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Boraxman <=-

pF> @MSGID: <6273D46B.5137.dove.dove-int@realitycheckbbs.org>
pF> @REPLY: <62725ADD.5367.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
-=> Boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Bo> I have used wordpress sites, but not wordpress.com. It is pretty good,
Bo> and easy to get up and running. I have a half developed site, but
Bo> decided to just go with plain HTML and CSS.

pF> There's a package called Blosxsom that had promise - you leave text
pF> files in a directory on a web server and Blosxom formats it, adds
pF> headers/footers/sidebars/styles.

pF> I like that idea.

pF> I know there are a ton of static web page generators, WP is typically
pF> overkill for most.

pF> It would be nice for people to get back to publishing their own
pF> content again, although if you're looking to get your writing seen,
pF> you're better off on Medium or Substack.

It worries me that as things get more centralised, it would give these people
who hold the keys more power to gatekeep. If substack is taken over or capture
by ideologues, a real threat for anything in a Western, especially American
country, then authors and views will be made to dissapear.

--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Boraxman to MRO on Thu May 05 2022 08:36 pm

> -=> MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-
>
> MR> @MSGID: <627231D5.1252.dove-int@bbses.info>
> MR> @REPLY: <6271866E.5586.dove_dove-int@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
> MR> Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
> MR> By: Nightfox to Boraxman on Tue May 03 2022 12:45 pm
>
> > Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
> > By: Boraxman to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 06:34 pm
> >
> > Bo> I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I wo
> > Bo> wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at a
> > Bo> the BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are n
> > Bo> lost forever?
> >
> > When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it onto a
> > CD-R. Last I checked (just a few years ago), that CD-R is still readable.
> >
>
> MR> it's readable until it isn't. it depends on that day in the factory,
> MR> the media type, your drive, and the environment it's in.
>
> MR> even in a perfect environment i had cds rot
>
> Mine are all good, including DVD's, except for a few which have deteriorated
> around the edges. A bad lot from one spindle.
>
> But the last time you checked, may be the last time you could have ever read
> the disk, so it is best to move them to Hard Drive and make a backup of the
> Hard Drive if you don't want to lose the files.
>

A couple of years back I noticed that Flagnet had a Facebook page. I was on
there from 1991 to 1994, when they moved from Michigan to Indiana, and
dropped their local call in number. There were five or six BBS in my area
that I had continued using until 1997 when they finally moved to websites on
the internet. Flagnet was primarily a Commodore user's site but open to
anyone. It was all run on an Amiga. The operator took it down around the
same time others took their BBS' down in 96-97, but kept his machine in
storage. Later on he brought it back out to access through Telnet, and began
having problems due to bad capacitors and a leaky battery. A few years passed
and he found another Amiga locally. I don't know what he did wrong, but he
somehow lost information when he hooked his external drives back up. He
thouht he had CD backups, but they all went bad too. Lat time I asked him
about it, he has made no plans to build up a new BBS from scratch.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

-=> Boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Bo> It worries me that as things get more centralised, it would give these
Bo> people who hold the keys more power to gatekeep. If substack is taken
Bo> over or capture by ideologues, a real threat for anything in a Western,
Bo> especially American country, then authors and views will be made to
Bo> dissapear.

Or, more subtly, political and ideological views that don't fit in
with a perspective that the company running the site wants, either for
political gain or profit, get buried, and you run into the
"manipulated feed" scenario we're in with Facebook.

.... If it isn't broken, I can fix it.
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
� Synchronet � .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Wed May 04 2022 11:16 am

> Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
> By: Nightfox to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 03:55 pm
>
> > Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
> > By: Kaelon to Nightfox on Tue May 03 2022 03:23 pm
>
> > >> When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it
> > onto
> > >> a CD-R. Last I checked (just a few years ago), that CD-R is still
> > >> readable.
>
> > Ka> Consider submitting it to the Internet Archive. They readily accept
> > Ka> data donations, including software and underlying packages, for
> > Ka> posterity.
>
> > That's an idea. It has registered copies of some software though
> > (including RemoteAccess, a FTN mail tosser, and a copule registered BBS
> > doors which I still run on my current BBS).
>
> Be sure to wipe passwords, phone numers, etc. too.

i wouldnt recommend uploading a bbs onto the internet archive unless you want some moron just taking it and running your bbs. i had a telegard bbs i ran zipped up for people to learn from. a guy just ran it because he said it was "just like" his old bbs. i'm sure it was not just like it. the guy was just lazy. he didn't change one damn thing, he didn't write any mods using my examples either.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Boraxman to MRO on Thu May 05 2022 08:36 pm

>
> Mine are all good, including DVD's, except for a few which have deteriorated
> around the edges. A bad lot from one spindle.
>
> But the last time you checked, may be the last time you could have ever read
> the disk, so it is best to move them to Hard Drive and make a backup of the
> Hard Drive if you don't want to lose the files.

maybe flash drives are the way to go. one winter one broke off my keychain at work and through the whole season it was buried in snow and salt.

i found it months later and it still worked!
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::