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dovenet / Internet / Resurgence of non-mainstr

SubjectAuthor
* Resurgence of non-mainstream social media?Sam Alexander
+- Resurgence of non-mainstream social media?MRO
+- Resurgence of non-mainstream social media?Digital Man
+* Resurgence of non-mainstream social media?Nightfox
|`* Resurgence of non-mainstrDr. What
| +- Resurgence of non-mainstrMRO
| +* Resurgence of non-mainstrKaelon
| |`* Resurgence of non-mainstrArelor
| | +* Resurgence of non-mainstrKaelon
| | |`* Resurgence of non-mainstrArelor
| | | `- Resurgence of non-mainstrKaelon
| | `* Resurgence of non-mainstrDaiTengu
| |  `* Resurgence of non-mainstrKaelon
| |   `* Resurgence of non-mainstrBoraxman
| |    `* Resurgence of non-mainstrKaelon
| |     `* Resurgence of non-mainstrBoraxman
| |      `* Resurgence of non-mainstrKaelon
| |       `* Resurgence of non-mainstrBoraxman
| |        +* Resurgence of non-mainstrKaelon
| |        |+* Resurgence of non-mainstrDigital Man
| |        ||`* Resurgence of non-mainstrKaelon
| |        || `* Resurgence of non-mainstrDigital Man
| |        ||  `- Resurgence of non-mainstrKaelon
| |        |`* Resurgence of non-mainstrBoraxman
| |        | `- Resurgence of non-mainstrKaelon
| |        +* Re: Resurgence of non-mainstrpoindexter FORTRAN
| |        |+- Re: Resurgence of non-maiMoondog
| |        |`* Re: Resurgence of non-maiBoraxman
| |        | `* Re: Resurgence of non-maipoindexter FORTRAN
| |        |  `* Re: Resurgence of non-maiBoraxman
| |        |   `- Re: Resurgence of non-maipoindexter FORTRAN
| |        `* Resurgence of non-mainstrNightfox
| |         +* Resurgence of non-mainstrKaelon
| |         |`* Resurgence of non-mainstrNightfox
| |         | `* Resurgence of non-mainstrDigital Man
| |         |  `- Resurgence of non-mainstrMRO
| |         +* Resurgence of non-mainstrMRO
| |         |`* Resurgence of non-mainstrBoraxman
| |         | +- Resurgence of non-mainstrMoondog
| |         | `- Resurgence of non-mainstrMRO
| |         `- Resurgence of non-mainstrMoondog
| `- Resurgence of non-mainstrBoraxman
`- Resurgence of non-mainstream social media?Boraxman

Pages:12
Resurgence of non-mainstream social media?

<626AFE7C.1058.dove-internet@campbaudot.com>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/dovenet/article-flat.php?id=688&group=DOVE-Net.Internet#688

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From: sam.alexander@VERT/BAUDOT (Sam Alexander)
To: All
Subject: Resurgence of non-mainstream social media?
Message-ID: <626AFE7C.1058.dove-internet@campbaudot.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 13:52:12 -0600
X-Comment-To: All
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Camp Baudot
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
X-FTN-PID: Synchronet 3.19c-Linux master/0b34b299a Mar 20 2022 GCC 9.4.0
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 by: Sam Alexander - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 19:52 UTC

I have accounts on Twitter and Facebook and a few others, but I rarely use
them. Mostly just consume data from a few of the organizations I volunteer for
who opt to use those platforms as their public voice. But now that Tesla dude
owns Twitter I'm reading many of the non-mainstream social media platforms are
getting a boost. Wonder if many folks who are aware of BBSes will move here
to find some outlet. Probably only the nerdiest of the nerdiest would, but
still even if a small fraction did would be neat to see.

Also off topic, but when did Sync add the up and down votes on messages? Very
nice, reminds me of Reddit ;-)

---
� Synchronet � Camping on the Internet at Camp Baudot BBS - campbaudot.com

Resurgence of non-mainstream social media?

<626B3500.1230.dove-int@bbses.info>

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From: mro@VERT/BBSESINF (MRO)
To: Sam Alexander
Subject: Resurgence of non-mainstream social media?
Message-ID: <626B3500.1230.dove-int@bbses.info>
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 12:44:48 -0500
X-Comment-To: Sam Alexander
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: bbses.info
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <626AFE7C.1058.dove-internet@campbaudot.com>
References: <626AFE7C.1058.dove-internet@campbaudot.com>
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 by: MRO - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 17:44 UTC

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstream social media?
By: Sam Alexander to All on Thu Apr 28 2022 08:52 pm

> I have accounts on Twitter and Facebook and a few others, but I rarely use
> them. Mostly just consume data from a few of the organizations I volunteer
> for who opt to use those platforms as their public voice. But now that
> Tesla dude owns Twitter I'm reading many of the non-mainstream social media
> platforms are getting a boost. Wonder if many folks who are aware of BBSes
> will move here to find some outlet. Probably only the nerdiest of the
> nerdiest would, but still even if a small fraction did would be neat to see.
>
> Also off topic, but when did Sync add the up and down votes on messages?
> Very nice, reminds me of Reddit ;-)

make sure you remember to quote msgs
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Resurgence of non-mainstream social media?

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From: digital.man@VERT (Digital Man)
To: Sam Alexander
Subject: Resurgence of non-mainstream social media?
Message-ID: <626B45EE.8476.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 11:57:02 -0700
X-Comment-To: Sam Alexander
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Vertrauen
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <626AFE7C.1058.dove-internet@campbaudot.com>
References: <626AFE7C.1058.dove-internet@campbaudot.com>
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 by: Digital Man - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 18:57 UTC

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstream social media?
By: Sam Alexander to All on Thu Apr 28 2022 08:52 pm

> Also off topic, but when did Sync add the up and down votes on messages?
> Very nice, reminds me of Reddit ;-)

It's been several years now. Glad you like it.
--
digital man (rob)

Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #33:
FSP = FidoNet Standards Proposal
Norco, CA WX: 61.6°F, 68.0% humidity, 5 mph S wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
---
■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net

Resurgence of non-mainstream social media?

<626B43E6.5565.dove_dove-int@digitaldistortionbbs.com>

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From: nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST (Nightfox)
To: Sam Alexander
Subject: Resurgence of non-mainstream social media?
Message-ID: <626B43E6.5565.dove_dove-int@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 11:48:22 -0700
X-Comment-To: Sam Alexander
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Digital Distortion
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <626AFE7C.1058.dove-internet@campbaudot.com>
References: <626AFE7C.1058.dove-internet@campbaudot.com>
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 by: Nightfox - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 18:48 UTC

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstream social media?
By: Sam Alexander to All on Thu Apr 28 2022 08:52 pm

SA> Tesla dude owns Twitter I'm reading many of the non-mainstream social
SA> media platforms are getting a boost. Wonder if many folks who are aware of
SA> BBSes will move here to find some outlet. Probably only the nerdiest of

What are these non-mainstream social media platforms you speak of? I thought most people had moved to Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. I didn't think others such as MySpace, LiveJournal, Orkut, and others were used much anymore.

SA> Also off topic, but when did Sync add the up and down votes on messages?
SA> Very nice, reminds me of Reddit ;-)

From what I remember, that was added in late 2016 for Synchronet 3.17. And in addition to upvoting and downvoting, Synchronet also supports polls that people can vote on.

Nightfox

---
■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

Resurgence of non-mainstream social media?

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From: boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS (Boraxman)
To: Sam Alexander
Subject: Resurgence of non-mainstream social media?
Message-ID: <626BAEBE.5344.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 12:24:14 +1000
X-Comment-To: Sam Alexander
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: MS & RD BBs
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <626AFE7C.1058.dove-internet@campbaudot.com>
References: <626AFE7C.1058.dove-internet@campbaudot.com>
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 by: Boraxman - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 02:24 UTC

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstream social media?
By: Sam Alexander to All on Thu Apr 28 2022 08:52 pm

> I have accounts on Twitter and Facebook and a few others, but I rarely use them.
> Mostly just consume data from a few of the organizations I volunteer for who opt
> use those platforms as their public voice. But now that Tesla dude owns Twitter
> reading many of the non-mainstream social media platforms are getting a boost.
> Wonder if many folks who are aware of BBSes will move here to find some outlet.
> Probably only the nerdiest of the nerdiest would, but still even if a small fract
> did would be neat to see.
>
> Also off topic, but when did Sync add the up and down votes on messages? Very ni
> reminds me of Reddit ;-)
>

The people worried about Musk buying Twitter are mostly ideological fanantics having
a tizzy fit. I don't think he'll fix that much anyway.

I think a lot of people aren't aware, or aren't interested, mostly the former. I
think it is a good alternative to crappy ad-driven social media, with many benefits
the Big Tech platforms cannot offer.

Welcome to BBS'ing! I did use BBS's in the mid to late 90s, but dropped out at
about 2000 completely after they dissappeared and I moved to using the "Internet"
for everything. Several years ago I found they still existed, popped in and out
just to see what they were like but stayed after a while because logging in to a BBS
gets you more than just nostalgia.

---
■ Synchronet ■ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org

Resurgence of non-mainstr

<626BD6A1.4889.dove-internet@dmine.net>

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From: dr..what@VERT/DMINE (Dr. What)
To: Nightfox
Subject: Resurgence of non-mainstr
Message-ID: <626BD6A1.4889.dove-internet@dmine.net>
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 01:07:00 -0400
X-Comment-To: Nightfox
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Diamond Mine Online
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <626B43E6.5565.dove_dove-int@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
References: <626B43E6.5565.dove_dove-int@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
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 by: Dr. What - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 05:07 UTC

-=> Nightfox wrote to Sam Alexander <=-

Ni> What are these non-mainstream social media platforms you speak of? I
Ni> thought most people had moved to Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. I
Ni> didn't think others such as MySpace, LiveJournal, Orkut, and others
Ni> were used much anymore.

Remember when the "If you don't like how our platform is run, start your own"
saying?

Well, several started. MeWe is sort of like Facebook. Gab is sort of like
Twitter. Rumble and BitChute are like YouTube. I'm sure there are more, but
those are the ones I use.

.... Money talks - mine says "Goodbye"
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
� Synchronet � Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 - Fredericksburg, VA USA

Resurgence of non-mainstr

<626BE6D1.1235.dove-int@bbses.info>

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From: mro@VERT/BBSESINF (MRO)
To: Dr. What
Subject: Resurgence of non-mainstr
Message-ID: <626BE6D1.1235.dove-int@bbses.info>
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 01:23:29 -0500
X-Comment-To: Dr. What
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: bbses.info
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <626BD6A1.4889.dove-internet@dmine.net>
References: <626BD6A1.4889.dove-internet@dmine.net>
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 by: MRO - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 06:23 UTC

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Dr. What to Nightfox on Fri Apr 29 2022 08:07 am

> -=> Nightfox wrote to Sam Alexander <=-
>
> Ni> What are these non-mainstream social media platforms you speak of? I
> Ni> thought most people had moved to Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. I
> Ni> didn't think others such as MySpace, LiveJournal, Orkut, and others
> Ni> were used much anymore.
>
> Remember when the "If you don't like how our platform is run, start your
> own" saying?
>
> Well, several started. MeWe is sort of like Facebook. Gab is sort of like
> Twitter. Rumble and BitChute are like YouTube. I'm sure there are more,
> but those are the ones I use.
>

that's happened with everything. that's why there's so many programming languages. only the strong survive.

twitter and fb stuck around through all this because they were strong and there's more people on them.

speaking of gab, i can't get them to send me my pw reset. my account is there but never works.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Resurgence of non-mainstr

<626BF84C.8481.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>

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From: kaelon@VERT (Kaelon)
To: Dr. What
Subject: Resurgence of non-mainstr
Message-ID: <626BF84C.8481.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 00:38:04 -0700
X-Comment-To: Dr. What
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Vertrauen
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <626BD6A1.4889.dove-internet@dmine.net>
References: <626BD6A1.4889.dove-internet@dmine.net>
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 by: Kaelon - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 07:38 UTC

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Dr. What to Nightfox on Fri Apr 29 2022 08:07 am

> Remember when the "If you don't like how our platform is run, start your
> own" saying?
>
> Well, several started. MeWe is sort of like Facebook. Gab is sort of like
> Twitter. Rumble and BitChute are like YouTube. I'm sure there are more,
> but those are the ones I use.

Absolutely. Don't forget that there's a huge decentralized free, open-source software (FOSS) of social media out there (sometimes called the "Fediverse"). Federated Social Media has sprung up everywhere, allowing the use of the ActivityPub protocol to allow everyone to start up their own Twitter (Mastodon), YouTube (PeerTube), Instagram (Pixelfed), and the like, and they can all talk to one another and federate easily and selectively.

I feel that, even though the Federation / Fediverse has been a nerdy experiment mostly among fringe and nerds, the dramatic increase in it (namely, Mastodon) thanks to Tusk's acquisition of Twitter is going to launch a new renaissance. Definitely provides food for thought along-side the Alt Soc Med.

---
■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net

Resurgence of non-mainstr

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From: arelor@VERT/PALANT (Arelor)
To: Kaelon
Subject: Resurgence of non-mainstr
Message-ID: <626C6DD4.3126.dove-internet@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 10:59:32 -0500
X-Comment-To: Kaelon
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Palantir
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <626BF84C.8481.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>
References: <626BF84C.8481.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>
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 by: Arelor - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 15:59 UTC

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Kaelon to Dr. What on Fri Apr 29 2022 07:38 am

> I feel that, even though the Federation / Fediverse has been a nerdy experim
> mostly among fringe and nerds, the dramatic increase in it (namely, Mastodon
> thanks to Tusk's acquisition of Twitter is going to launch a new renaissance
> Definitely provides food for thought along-side the Alt Soc Med.

When the Spanish TV released some news about Quitter, a group of nodes from the
Fediverse, portraying it as an anticapitalist version of Twitter, there was an
avalanche and their services got overloaded.

A month later all the newcomers had left for good.

People is not constant at all.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Resurgence of non-mainstr

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From: boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS (Boraxman)
To: Dr. What
Subject: Resurgence of non-mainstr
Message-ID: <626D061A.5349.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 12:49:14 +1000
X-Comment-To: Dr. What
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: MS & RD BBs
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <626BD6A1.4889.dove-internet@dmine.net>
References: <626BD6A1.4889.dove-internet@dmine.net>
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 by: Boraxman - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 02:49 UTC

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Dr. What to Nightfox on Fri Apr 29 2022 08:07 am

> -=> Nightfox wrote to Sam Alexander <=-
>
> Ni> What are these non-mainstream social media platforms you speak of? I though
> Ni> most people had moved to Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. I didn't think
> Ni> others such as MySpace, LiveJournal, Orkut, and others
> Ni> were used much anymore.
>
> Remember when the "If you don't like how our platform is run, start your own"
> saying?
>
> Well, several started. MeWe is sort of like Facebook. Gab is sort of like Twitt
> Rumble and BitChute are like YouTube. I'm sure there are more, but those are the
> ones I use.
>
>
> ... Money talks - mine says "Goodbye"

"Our platform", recognition that the digital public square was never really for the
public.

The best thing Elon could do now, is get every backup tape and hard drive which
contains Twitter code and data passed under a degausser and then sold as blanks on
e-bay.

---
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From: kaelon@VERT (Kaelon)
To: Arelor
Subject: Resurgence of non-mainstr
Message-ID: <626D786E.8484.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 03:57:02 -0700
X-Comment-To: Arelor
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 by: Kaelon - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 10:57 UTC

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Arelor to Kaelon on Fri Apr 29 2022 05:59 pm

> When the Spanish TV released some news about Quitter, a group of nodes from
> the Fediverse, portraying it as an anticapitalist version of Twitter, there
> was an avalanche and their services got overloaded.
>
> A month later all the newcomers had left for good.
>
> People is not constant at all.

Tienes razon. But even so, the principle of the Fediverse is that you can join any instance - big or small - and still be able to interact with any and all "instances" that are "federated" with it. So one of the problems is that, on Mastodon, everyone was joining mastodon.social and mastodon.online. But there's no reason to do so, really.

That said, I do think that the temporary surge in the Fediverse will be short-lived. Social Networks depend upon the social networking effect, and you need a critical mass of users and interactivity to deal with that.
-=- Kaelon -=- kaelon@kaelon.com -=-

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From: daitengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE (DaiTengu)
To: Arelor
Subject: Resurgence of non-mainstr
Message-ID: <626D6AA0.4266.dove-internet@warensemble.com>
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 04:58:08 -0500
X-Comment-To: Arelor
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 by: DaiTengu - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 09:58 UTC

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Arelor to Kaelon on Fri Apr 29 2022 05:59 pm

Ar> When the Spanish TV released some news about Quitter, a group of nodes
Ar> from the Fediverse, portraying it as an anticapitalist version of Twitter,
Ar> there was an avalanche and their services got overloaded.

Ar> A month later all the newcomers had left for good.

Ar> People is not constant at all.

Social media sites need to have instant traction, and about 75% retention in the beginning or they're going to fail. I was involved with a crypto-based social media site last year. a year's worth of work was put into it, but it wasn't quite marketed right. It was too complex for the "average" person, it got overloaded with crypto-bros and only had about 25% retention (people signed up for the free crypto and didn't come back for the most part).

Fortunately the guy in charge saw what was happening after a few weeks and pulled the plug. He released the code behind the site as FOSS so maybe someone in the future can run with it once some of the underlying issues are worked out.

About the only "social media" sites that really stand a chance as a startup are things like internet forums that are focused on a niche topic. Even Facebook has killed off a ton of those with "groups", but forums are still leaps and bounds better with the ability to easily search for information, especially if stuff is well organized.

You have to walk a very fine line though. if your topic is too "niche" your site won't gain enough traction to generate content so others can find you.

DaiTengu

.... Not one hundred percent efficient, of course.but nothing ever is.

---
■ Synchronet ■ War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com

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From: kaelon@VERT (Kaelon)
To: DaiTengu
Subject: Resurgence of non-mainstr
Message-ID: <626DC7CE.8486.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 09:35:42 -0700
X-Comment-To: DaiTengu
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 by: Kaelon - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 16:35 UTC

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: DaiTengu to Arelor on Sat Apr 30 2022 11:58 am

> About the only "social media" sites that really stand a chance as a startup are things like internet
> forums that are focused on a niche topic. Even Facebook has killed off a ton of those with "groups",
> but
> forums are still leaps and bounds better with the ability to easily search for information, especially
> if
> stuff is well organized.

So very true, DaiTengu. I was having an extensive conversation with other legacy forum admins over the past couple of weeks, and pointing out just how social media - in particularly, Facebook Groups, Reddit, and to a lesser extent, Discord - has radically displaced niche forums. But the loss of discoverability, thanks to Google penalizing user generated content on forums and the like, has rendered most forums - whether they are on Facebook or are independently operating - largely invisible.

If I were starting a new social media or community website today, I would focus on a super simple and intuitive interface with an emphasis on discovery, sharing, and ease of use. But then again, that's why we have Twitter and the federated alternatives on ActivityPub.
-=- Kaelon -=- kaelon@kaelon.com -=-

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From: arelor@VERT/PALANT (Arelor)
To: Kaelon
Subject: Resurgence of non-mainstr
Message-ID: <626DDC14.3131.dove-internet@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 13:02:12 -0500
X-Comment-To: Kaelon
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
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 by: Arelor - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 18:02 UTC

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Kaelon to Arelor on Sat Apr 30 2022 10:57 am

> That said, I do think that the temporary surge in the Fediverse will be
> short-lived. Social Networks depend upon the social networking effect, and y
> need a critical mass of users and interactivity to deal with that.

Yes and no.

The systems we think of when we talk about social network do depend on having a
critical mass of users to be relevant, or they will fall back into obscurity as
far as the public eye is concerned. However, a system does not need to be
popular to be useful.

As I have said elsewhere, I don't care if the IRC server I host in my closet is
popular or not if my three friends happen to be there.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

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From: kaelon@VERT (Kaelon)
To: Arelor
Subject: Resurgence of non-mainstr
Message-ID: <626DE457.8488.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 11:37:27 -0700
X-Comment-To: Arelor
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 by: Kaelon - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 18:37 UTC

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Arelor to Kaelon on Sat Apr 30 2022 08:02 pm

> The systems we think of when we talk about social network do depend on
> having a critical mass of users to be relevant, or they will fall back into
> obscurity as far as the public eye is concerned. However, a system does not
> need to be popular to be useful.
>
> As I have said elsewhere, I don't care if the IRC server I host in my closet
> is popular or not if my three friends happen to be there.

Well said. It always comes down to the use case for each person hosting the service.
-=- Kaelon -=-

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From: boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS (Boraxman)
To: Kaelon
Subject: Resurgence of non-mainstr
Message-ID: <626E2389.5355.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 09:07:05 +1000
X-Comment-To: Kaelon
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
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 by: Boraxman - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 23:07 UTC

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Kaelon to DaiTengu on Sat Apr 30 2022 04:35 pm

> Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
> By: DaiTengu to Arelor on Sat Apr 30 2022 11:58 am
>
> > About the only "social media" sites that really stand a chance as a startup ar
> > things like internet forums that are focused on a niche topic. Even Facebook
> > killed off a ton of those with "groups", but
> > forums are still leaps and bounds better with the ability to easily search for
> > information, especially if
> > stuff is well organized.
>
> So very true, DaiTengu. I was having an extensive conversation with other legacy
> forum admins over the past couple of weeks, and pointing out just how social medi
> in particularly, Facebook Groups, Reddit, and to a lesser extent, Discord - has
> radically displaced niche forums. But the loss of discoverability, thanks to Goo
> penalizing user generated content on forums and the like, has rendered most forum
> whether they are on Facebook or are independently operating - largely invisible.
>
> If I were starting a new social media or community website today, I would focus o
> super simple and intuitive interface with an emphasis on discovery, sharing, and
> ease of use. But then again, that's why we have Twitter and the federated
> alternatives on ActivityPub.
> -=- Kaelon -=- kaelon@kaelon.com -=-
>
It is like we are living in a new Dark Age. The old websites have dissappeared,and
with Social Media, forum discussions are missing now too from web searched. It's
fine for Google not to index general discussion (I'd prefer it doesn't), but when
the group on Facebook is about how to fix hardware, and people are sharing
solutions, its good to be able to find these.

Facebook is terrible for that, which is why people keep posting the same questions
over and over again.

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From: kaelon@VERT (Kaelon)
To: Boraxman
Subject: Resurgence of non-mainstr
Message-ID: <626EF764.8490.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 07:11:00 -0700
X-Comment-To: Boraxman
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In-Reply-To: <626E2389.5355.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
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 by: Kaelon - Sun, 1 May 2022 14:11 UTC

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Boraxman to Kaelon on Sun May 01 2022 04:07 pm

> It is like we are living in a new Dark Age. The old websites have
> dissappeared,and
> with Social Media, forum discussions are missing now too from web searched.
> It's fine for Google not to index general discussion (I'd prefer it
> doesn't), but when the group on Facebook is about how to fix hardware, and
> people are sharing solutions, its good to be able to find these.
>
> Facebook is terrible for that, which is why people keep posting the same
> questions over and over again.

Completely agree with you. Web forums have always been pretty terrible for archival purposes, and even with public benefit organizations, like the Internet Archive and its Way Back Machine, findability and discovery are basically impossible and there are always limits.

The Dark Age of Social Media has with it very steep prices, but it does seem like there is, at the very least, a genuine awakening to the dangers and the loss of human knowledge that this poses. You are so right that people keep asking the same questions over and over again, and whether it's Facebook or Reddit or, even worse, Discord groups, it's impossible for people to build a collective knowledge to advance awareness.
-=- Kaelon -=-

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From: boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS (Boraxman)
To: Kaelon
Subject: Resurgence of non-mainstr
Message-ID: <626F9E87.5357.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 12:04:07 +1000
X-Comment-To: Kaelon
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
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Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
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 by: Boraxman - Mon, 2 May 2022 02:04 UTC

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Kaelon to Boraxman on Sun May 01 2022 02:11 pm

> Completely agree with you. Web forums have always been pretty terrible for
> archival purposes, and even with public benefit organizations, like the
> Internet Archive and its Way Back Machine, findability and discovery are
> basically impossible and there are always limits.
>
> The Dark Age of Social Media has with it very steep prices, but it does seem
> like there is, at the very least, a genuine awakening to the dangers and the
> loss of human knowledge that this poses. You are so right that people keep
> asking the same questions over and over again, and whether it's Facebook or
> Reddit or, even worse, Discord groups, it's impossible for people to build a
> collective knowledge to advance awareness.
> -=- Kaelon -=-

The best was simple web pages set up by people who knew their subject, and put
their findings on the Internet for posterity. They too are harder to find,
but you come accross them from time to time. Simple HTML pages, some inline
images, thats it. I save webpages that are good references to an archive hard
disk, incase I need it later and the site or page dissapears.

In the it will be book that stand the test of time, or patiently built digital
archives that are handed down.

---
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From: kaelon@VERT (Kaelon)
To: Boraxman
Subject: Resurgence of non-mainstr
Message-ID: <626FEB88.8492.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 00:32:40 -0700
X-Comment-To: Boraxman
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Vertrauen
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <626F9E87.5357.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
References: <626F9E87.5357.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
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 by: Kaelon - Mon, 2 May 2022 07:32 UTC

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Boraxman to Kaelon on Mon May 02 2022 07:04 pm

> The best was simple web pages set up by people who knew their subject, and
> put their findings on the Internet for posterity. They too are harder to
> find, but you come accross them from time to time. Simple HTML pages, some
> inline images, thats it. I save webpages that are good references to an
> archive hard disk, incase I need it later and the site or page dissapears.

I love this practice, and genuinely, wish I would adopt it more often myself. Of course, the loss of Geocities was tremendous because virtually all of those sites were filled with really interesting information from amateurs and professionals alike. True subject matter experts are passionate and know their topics really well, and when you see them provide insight, it's a joy to read and review.

Re: your later statement about what will stand the test of time, as much as I like to think that a digital archive will be the enduring trove of our lifetimes, I am genuinely worried that the continuing obsolescence of media, operating systems, and formats will lead to a great Dark Age of knowledge, when computers of the future won't be able to read the files from today, let alone the 1980s or 1990s.

People keep insisting that the best way to preserve knowledge is to print it out. I'm just glad that I never became a true digital native, despite having been raised in the 1980s and 1990s and growing up around systems. I always print pretty much everything; it's how my brain works!
_____
-=: Kaelon :=-

---
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From: boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS (Boraxman)
To: Kaelon
Subject: Resurgence of non-mainstr
Message-ID: <6270F7AE.5359.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 11:34:00 +1000
X-Comment-To: Kaelon
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: MS & RD BBs
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <626FEB88.8492.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>
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 by: Boraxman - Tue, 3 May 2022 01:34 UTC

-=> Kaelon wrote to Boraxman <=-

> The best was simple web pages set up by people who knew their subject, and
> put their findings on the Internet for posterity. They too are harder to
> find, but you come accross them from time to time. Simple HTML pages, some
> inline images, thats it. I save webpages that are good references to an
> archive hard disk, incase I need it later and the site or page dissapears.

Ka> I love this practice, and genuinely, wish I would adopt it more often
Ka> myself. Of course, the loss of Geocities was tremendous because
Ka> virtually all of those sites were filled with really interesting
Ka> information from amateurs and professionals alike. True subject matter
Ka> experts are passionate and know their topics really well, and when you
Ka> see them provide insight, it's a joy to read and review.

Ka> Re: your later statement about what will stand the test of time, as
Ka> much as I like to think that a digital archive will be the enduring
Ka> trove of our lifetimes, I am genuinely worried that the continuing
Ka> obsolescence of media, operating systems, and formats will lead to a
Ka> great Dark Age of knowledge, when computers of the future won't be able
Ka> to read the files from today, let alone the 1980s or 1990s.

Ka> People keep insisting that the best way to preserve knowledge is to
Ka> print it out. I'm just glad that I never became a true digital native,
Ka> despite having been raised in the 1980s and 1990s and growing up around
Ka> systems. I always print pretty much everything; it's how my brain
Ka> works! _____

I did have a Geocities page. Like most people, the page was amateurish, and
heavily personalised. Created from scratch the way that I envisioned the web
page to look, not based on a template. There are still such sites, though they
are lost amongst the noise.

A suspect a lot of sites now are AI generated, designed to game Google's
algorithms and bring in that sweet, sweet ad revenue.

There was an effort in the 80's to digitise the Domesday book. A decade and a
bit later, the original Domesday book can still be read, but the digital
version not so, because of changes in technology and obsolescence. In the
future, the difficulty will be finding it. We will have a similar problem to
what scholars in the middle ages had, when books weren't categorised or logged,
but where just put in piles, poorly titled, and one had to go through them all
to find information, or even just to determine what they were about.

I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I would wager,
don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all the BBS's that
existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now lost forever?


--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org

Resurgence of non-mainstr

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From: kaelon@VERT (Kaelon)
To: Boraxman
Subject: Resurgence of non-mainstr
Message-ID: <627142DE.8494.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 00:57:34 -0700
X-Comment-To: Boraxman
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
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References: <6270F7AE.5359.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
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 by: Kaelon - Tue, 3 May 2022 07:57 UTC

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Boraxman to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 06:34 pm

> I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I would
> wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all the
> BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now lost
> forever?

Very well stated. And this is the tragedy, really, of our current digital ecosystem. In the late 1980s, my dad interviewed the entire family and built a comprehensive family tree stretching back into the 1400s -- which he then reconciled with Church records in Spain to go back even further! -- but he stored it on tape backup.

Two problems:

1. The tape backup, which for all you know may still be readable, depends upon hardware that is no longer produced.

2. The family tree software, which was legacy DOS and never ported or migrated, is impossible to find now and it's a relic. He may have it in disks somewhere, but it's probably 5 1/4" disks rather than the somewhat-more-manageable 3 1/2", which also poses other media problems.

Between the loss of media inter-operability and format / software conversion, that entire labor - and the wealth of family knowledge from relatives who have since passed on - is, as far as the rest of the family is concerned, totally lost.

How do we even begin to solve problems as large as human history's recorded deficit, when we can't even deal with the BBS'es from the 1990s or family trees from the 1980s?
_____
-=: Kaelon :=-

---
■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr

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From: poindexter.fortran@VERT/REALITY (poindexter FORTRAN)
To: Boraxman
Subject: Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
Message-ID: <627151ED.5121.dove.dove-int@realitycheckbbs.org>
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 01:30:00 -0700
X-Comment-To: Boraxman
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: realitycheckBBS
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
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References: <6270F7AE.5359.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
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 by: poindexter FORTRAN - Tue, 3 May 2022 08:30 UTC

-=> Boraxman wrote to Kaelon <=-

Ka> I love this practice, and genuinely, wish I would adopt it more often
Ka> myself. Of course, the loss of Geocities was tremendous because
Ka> virtually all of those sites were filled with really interesting
Ka> information from amateurs and professionals alike. True subject matter
Ka> experts are passionate and know their topics really well, and when you
Ka> see them provide insight, it's a joy to read and review.

Wordpress.com is a good starting point, they have a great UI, free plans,
and you can export your data to your self-hosted wordpress instance when
you're ready.

I've captured information for posterity, shared photos, and written a FAQ
that are all hosted on a site I started in 2000.

Bo> I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I would
Bo> wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all
Bo> the BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now
Bo> lost forever?

I so wish I spent more money on data storage back in the 90s and kept better
backups. As it is, I have a backup from 1994 and 1999, and that's it.

Bo> --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
Bo>  Synchronet MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org

.... A journey of a thousand sandwiches begins with a single cut.
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
� Synchronet � .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.

Resurgence of non-mainstr

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From: nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST (Nightfox)
To: Boraxman
Subject: Resurgence of non-mainstr
Message-ID: <6271866E.5586.dove_dove-int@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 05:45:50 -0700
X-Comment-To: Boraxman
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Digital Distortion
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <6270F7AE.5359.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
References: <6270F7AE.5359.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
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 by: Nightfox - Tue, 3 May 2022 12:45 UTC

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Boraxman to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 06:34 pm

Bo> I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I would
Bo> wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all the
Bo> BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now lost
Bo> forever?

When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it onto a CD-R. Last I checked (just a few years ago), that CD-R is still readable.

Nightfox

---
■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

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From: kaelon@VERT (Kaelon)
To: Nightfox
Subject: Resurgence of non-mainstr
Message-ID: <6271AB4A.8498.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 08:23:06 -0700
X-Comment-To: Nightfox
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Vertrauen
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <6271866E.5586.dove_dove-int@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
References: <6271866E.5586.dove_dove-int@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
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 by: Kaelon - Tue, 3 May 2022 15:23 UTC

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Nightfox to Boraxman on Tue May 03 2022 12:45 pm

> When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it onto a
> CD-R. Last I checked (just a few years ago), that CD-R is still readable.

Consider submitting it to the Internet Archive. They readily accept data donations, including software and underlying packages, for posterity.
_____
-=: Kaelon :=-

---
■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net

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From: nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST (Nightfox)
To: Kaelon
Subject: Resurgence of non-mainstr
Message-ID: <6271B2EB.5588.dove_dove-int@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 08:55:39 -0700
X-Comment-To: Kaelon
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Digital Distortion
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <6271AB4A.8498.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>
References: <6271AB4A.8498.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>
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 by: Nightfox - Tue, 3 May 2022 15:55 UTC

Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Kaelon to Nightfox on Tue May 03 2022 03:23 pm

>> When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it onto
>> a CD-R. Last I checked (just a few years ago), that CD-R is still
>> readable.

Ka> Consider submitting it to the Internet Archive. They readily accept data
Ka> donations, including software and underlying packages, for posterity.

That's an idea. It has registered copies of some software though (including RemoteAccess, a FTN mail tosser, and a copule registered BBS doors which I still run on my current BBS).

Nightfox

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