"Betterbird. Simply better.

"Betterbird is a fine-tuned version of Mozilla Thunderbird,
Thunderbird on steroids, if you will.

"Betterbird is better than Thunderbird in three ways: It
contains new features exclusive to Betterbird, it contains bug
fixes exclusive to Betterbird and it contains fixes that
Thunderbird may ship at a later stage. Please refer to the
feature table for examples.

MORE: http://betterbird.eu/

--

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
� Synchronet � CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Re: Betterbird..
By: Ogg to All on Mon Apr 18 2022 05:46 pm

> "Betterbird. Simply better.
>
> "Betterbird is a fine-tuned version of Mozilla Thunderbird,
> Thunderbird on steroids, if you will.
>
> "Betterbird is better than Thunderbird in three ways: It
> contains new features exclusive to Betterbird, it contains bug
> fixes exclusive to Betterbird and it contains fixes that
> Thunderbird may ship at a later stage. Please refer to the
> feature table for examples.
>
> MORE: http://betterbird.eu/
>
> --

this looks pretty ghetto. no https
no signed archive.
i run their 'portable installer' so, sfx 7zip window pops up and closes

i extracted it and tried it out. there's nothing better about it so far.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Betterbird..
By: Ogg to All on Mon Apr 18 2022 05:46 pm

> "Betterbird. Simply better.
>
> "Betterbird is a fine-tuned version of Mozilla Thunderbird,
> Thunderbird on steroids, if you will.
>
> "Betterbird is better than Thunderbird in three ways: It
> contains new features exclusive to Betterbird, it contains bug
> fixes exclusive to Betterbird and it contains fixes that
> Thunderbird may ship at a later stage. Please refer to the
> feature table for examples.
>
> MORE: http://betterbird.eu/
>
> --

I would like to see the old enigmail plugin back. Before they incorporated
enigmail into Thunderbird, enigmail used your users GnuPG configuration, used
your keyring. Then when they moved it into Thunderbird, they changed it so it
used its own keyring. That made me stop using Thunderbird because I didn't
want to, or see the advantage of, managing two seperate keyrings and keeping
them in sync.

---
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Re: Betterbird..
By: Boraxman to Ogg on Tue Apr 19 2022 07:34 pm

> I would like to see the old enigmail plugin back. Before they incorporated
> enigmail into Thunderbird, enigmail used your users GnuPG configuration,
> used your keyring. Then when they moved it into Thunderbird, they changed
> it so it used its own keyring. That made me stop using Thunderbird because
> I didn't want to, or see the advantage of, managing two seperate keyrings
> and keeping them in sync.

man pgp is too much work to setup, and people rarely use it anymore.

it's better to just use another type of communication if you want to encrypt communications.
---
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Re: Betterbird..
By: MRO to Boraxman on Tue Apr 19 2022 01:47 pm

> Re: Betterbird..
> By: Boraxman to Ogg on Tue Apr 19 2022 07:34 pm
>
> > I would like to see the old enigmail plugin back. Before they incorporated
> > enigmail into Thunderbird, enigmail used your users GnuPG configuration, used
> > your keyring. Then when they moved it into Thunderbird, they changed it so it
> > used its own keyring. That made me stop using Thunderbird because I didn't wa
> > to, or see the advantage of, managing two seperate keyrings and keeping them i
> > sync.
>
>
> man pgp is too much work to setup, and people rarely use it anymore.
>
> it's better to just use another type of communication if you want to encrypt
> communications.

Yes, but which one? Signal works well, though you need to sign up with your phone
number, which some people don't like. Telegram is closed source.

The advantage of PGP is you can use it with your existing e-mail address. I used to
use it with others, I set it up for them. The real problem is they lose their keys
when they inevitably have to reinstall windows, get their drive wiped or change
computers.

---
■ Synchronet ■ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org

Re: Betterbird..
By: Boraxman to MRO on Wed Apr 20 2022 05:29 pm

> Yes, but which one? Signal works well, though you need to sign up with your
> phone number, which some people don't like. Telegram is closed source.

just pick one. or txt them
>
> The advantage of PGP is you can use it with your existing e-mail address. I
> used to use it with others, I set it up for them. The real problem is they
> lose their keys when they inevitably have to reinstall windows, get their
> drive wiped or change computers.

yeah i played around it a bunch years ago.
i wouldnt use it in today's age.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Hello MRO!

** On Tuesday 19.04.22 - 13:47, MRO wrote to Boraxman:

M> man pgp is too much work to setup, and people rarely use it
M> anymore.

What is so hard about it?

M> it's better to just use another type of communication if you want to
M> encrypt communications. -+-

DeltaChat is not bad. It uses your existing email "system".
Very clever.

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
� Synchronet � CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Hello MRO!

** On Wednesday 20.04.22 - 05:00, MRO wrote to Boraxman:

>> Yes, but which one? Signal works well, though you need to
>> sign up with your phone number, which some people don't
>> like. Telegram is closed source.

M> just pick one. or txt them

txt (SMS) is purely in the clear, and provides absolutely no
privacy at all.

>>
>> The advantage of PGP is you can use it with your existing
>> e-mail address. I used to use it with others, I set it up
>> for them..

M> yeah i played around it a bunch years ago. i wouldnt use it
M> in today's age.

Thunderbird has integrated it into their system now. Proponents
seem to like it. Not sure how Betterbird does it.

Meanwhile, there is DeltChat which utilizes your existing email
provider's system.

OpenKeyChain is another fine system for Android users.

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
� Synchronet � CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Hello Boraxman!

** On Wednesday 20.04.22 - 17:29, Boraxman wrote to MRO:

>> it's better to just use another type of communication if
>> you want to encrypt communications.

B> Yes, but which one? Signal works well, though you need to
B> sign up with your phone number, which some people don't
B> like. Telegram is closed source.

Check out DeltaChat. It uses your existing email address. It
doesn't require any passphrase setup. And.. it's possible to
synchronize the app across multiple devices that can use the
same email address.

Telegram is OPEN source. It's in the 1st paragraph here:

https://telegram.org/apps

B> The advantage of PGP is you can use it with your existing
B> e-mail address. I used to use it with others, I set it up
B> for them. The real problem is they lose their keys when
B> they inevitably have to reinstall windows, get their drive
B> wiped or change computers.

DeltaChat might be a good option for those people you mention
who might like to entertain some extra privacy in email every
now and then.

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
� Synchronet � CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Hello Boraxman!

** On Tuesday 19.04.22 - 19:34, Boraxman wrote to Ogg:

B> I would like to see the old enigmail plugin back. Before
B> they incorporated enigmail into Thunderbird, enigmail used
B> your users GnuPG configuration, used your keyring. Then
B> when they moved it into Thunderbird, they changed it so it
B> used its own keyring. That made me stop using Thunderbird
B> because I didn't want to, or see the advantage of, managing
B> two seperate keyrings and keeping them in sync.

I don't like the way the new TB does it either.

That's why I rolled back to a version that works best for me.

I love the way Enigmail simplifies everything, and allows
updating keys from one device to another.

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
� Synchronet � CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Re: Betterbird..
By: Ogg to MRO on Wed Apr 20 2022 05:39 pm

> Hello MRO!
>
> ** On Tuesday 19.04.22 - 13:47, MRO wrote to Boraxman:
>
> M> man pgp is too much work to setup, and people rarely use it
> M> anymore.
>
> What is so hard about it?

it's just another hassle. and you have to make sure people you send email to
have it too.

deltachat looks cool i'm wondering why it's 125mb on windows, though.
---
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Re: Betterbird..
By: Ogg to MRO on Wed Apr 20 2022 05:43 pm

> Hello MRO!
>
> ** On Wednesday 20.04.22 - 05:00, MRO wrote to Boraxman:
>
> >> Yes, but which one? Signal works well, though you need to
> >> sign up with your phone number, which some people don't
> >> like. Telegram is closed source.
>
>
> M> just pick one. or txt them
>
> txt (SMS) is purely in the clear, and provides absolutely no
> privacy at all.
>
>

are we really concerned about our privacy, though?
everything we do is monitored.
our phones are listening to us talk right now
---
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Re: Betterbird..
By: Ogg to Boraxman on Wed Apr 20 2022 05:49 pm

>
> Telegram is OPEN source. It's in the 1st paragraph here:
>
> https://telegram.org/apps

i think he's talking about the server side.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Betterbird..
By: Ogg to MRO on Wed Apr 20 2022 05:43 pm

> txt (SMS) is purely in the clear, and provides absolutely no
> privacy at all.
>

Well, you may use Silence, which is essentially Signal Messenger for SMS.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: Betterbird..
By: MRO to Boraxman on Wed Apr 20 2022 05:00 am

> Re: Betterbird..
> By: Boraxman to MRO on Wed Apr 20 2022 05:29 pm
>
> > Yes, but which one? Signal works well, though you need to sign up with your phone
> > number, which some people don't like. Telegram is closed source.
>
> just pick one. or txt them
>

The problem is, my choice differs from other people choices. One wants to use Signal,
another group, Telegram, another uses Tutanota.

It's not a huge deal, but I just don't like signing up with a third party, for them to give
me privacy.

> > The advantage of PGP is you can use it with your existing e-mail address. I used to u
> > it with others, I set it up for them. The real problem is they lose their keys when t
> > inevitably have to reinstall windows, get their drive wiped or change computers.
>
> yeah i played around it a bunch years ago.
> i wouldnt use it in today's age.

I just don't bother using it with people who don't want to use it. If they want me to do
something like give them a password via plaintext, then I simply wont.

---
■ Synchronet ■ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org

Re: Betterbird..
By: Ogg to Boraxman on Wed Apr 20 2022 05:49 pm

> Hello Boraxman!
>
> ** On Wednesday 20.04.22 - 17:29, Boraxman wrote to MRO:
>
> >> it's better to just use another type of communication if
> >> you want to encrypt communications.
>
> B> Yes, but which one? Signal works well, though you need to
> B> sign up with your phone number, which some people don't
> B> like. Telegram is closed source.
>
> Check out DeltaChat. It uses your existing email address. It
> doesn't require any passphrase setup. And.. it's possible to
> synchronize the app across multiple devices that can use the
> same email address.
>
> Telegram is OPEN source. It's in the 1st paragraph here:
>
> https://telegram.org/apps
>
>
Interesting, did it change? I'm sure last time I looked at it, it wasn't. I'll admit it
was a while ago.

> B> The advantage of PGP is you can use it with your existing
> B> e-mail address. I used to use it with others, I set it up
> B> for them. The real problem is they lose their keys when
> B> they inevitably have to reinstall windows, get their drive
> B> wiped or change computers.
>
> DeltaChat might be a good option for those people you mention
> who might like to entertain some extra privacy in email every
> now and then.

I'll check it out. The problem is, some people I know who are worried about privacy, wont
bother using tools, not GPG, not anything.

---
■ Synchronet ■ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org

Re: Betterbird..
By: Ogg to Boraxman on Wed Apr 20 2022 05:54 pm

> Hello Boraxman!
>
> ** On Tuesday 19.04.22 - 19:34, Boraxman wrote to Ogg:
>
> B> I would like to see the old enigmail plugin back. Before
> B> they incorporated enigmail into Thunderbird, enigmail used
> B> your users GnuPG configuration, used your keyring. Then
> B> when they moved it into Thunderbird, they changed it so it
> B> used its own keyring. That made me stop using Thunderbird
> B> because I didn't want to, or see the advantage of, managing
> B> two seperate keyrings and keeping them in sync.
>
> I don't like the way the new TB does it either.
>
> That's why I rolled back to a version that works best for me.
>
> I love the way Enigmail simplifies everything, and allows
> updating keys from one device to another.

I switched to Claws Mail for that reason. You lose out on decent html support, but oh well,
html emails kind of suck anyway. I could keep using an older version of Thunderbird, but
then you don't get security updates.

---
■ Synchronet ■ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org

Re: Betterbird..
By: MRO to Ogg on Wed Apr 20 2022 10:46 pm

> Re: Betterbird..
> By: Ogg to MRO on Wed Apr 20 2022 05:39 pm
>
> > Hello MRO!
>
> > ** On Tuesday 19.04.22 - 13:47, MRO wrote to Boraxman:
>
> > M> man pgp is too much work to setup, and people rarely use it
> > M> anymore.
>
> > What is so hard about it?
>
>
> it's just another hassle. and you have to make sure people you send email to have it too.
>
> deltachat looks cool i'm wondering why it's 125mb on windows, though.

Tutanota is a good option. You can send encrypted e-mails to people who don't use it, they
just need to know a shared password in advance.

---
■ Synchronet ■ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org

Re: Betterbird..
By: Boraxman to MRO on Thu Apr 21 2022 08:25 pm

>
> I just don't bother using it with people who don't want to use it. If they
> want me to do something like give them a password via plaintext, then I
> simply wont.

yeah but if you give them a pasword or something like that, they should login and immediately change it.
---
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Re: Betterbird..
By: Boraxman to Ogg on Thu Apr 21 2022 08:28 pm

>
> I'll check it out. The problem is, some people I know who are worried about
> privacy, wont bother using tools, not GPG, not anything.

just tell them there is no such thing as privacy
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Betterbird..
By: MRO to Boraxman on Thu Apr 21 2022 03:37 pm

> Re: Betterbird..
> By: Boraxman to MRO on Thu Apr 21 2022 08:25 pm
>
>
> > I just don't bother using it with people who don't want to use it. If they wa
> > me to do something like give them a password via plaintext, then I simply wont
>
>
> yeah but if you give them a pasword or something like that, they should login and
> immediately change it.

Doesn't work if it an account that we both need to be able to access (i.e., an admin
password).

---
■ Synchronet ■ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org

Hello Boraxman!

** On Friday 22.04.22 - 17:31, Boraxman wrote to MRO:

>> yeah but if you give them a pasword or something like that,
>> they should login and immediately change it.

With services like Protonmail, the non-Protonmail recipient
just needs to know the passphrase that you used for that
particular message. In those instances, I just send a "formula"
to the recipient in a separate email that only the recipient
would know how to solve. For example,

passphrase = <yourtown>+<petname>+<YearOfYourCar>

Only the recipient would know how to solve for the above.

Or... the two of you could agree on using exactly the same
book, and use something like this:

passphrase = ourbook(the first 3 words on page 100, row 10)

B> Doesn't work if it an account that we both need to be able
B> to access (i.e., an admin password).

That's a different matter. But for emails, and passworded
files, a formula method like above could work.

--

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
� Synchronet � CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Re: Betterbird..
By: Ogg to Boraxman on Sun Apr 24 2022 01:06 pm

> Hello Boraxman!
>
> ** On Friday 22.04.22 - 17:31, Boraxman wrote to MRO:
>
> >> yeah but if you give them a pasword or something like that,
> >> they should login and immediately change it.
>
> With services like Protonmail, the non-Protonmail recipient
> just needs to know the passphrase that you used for that
> particular message. In those instances, I just send a "formula"
> to the recipient in a separate email that only the recipient
> would know how to solve. For example,
>
> passphrase = <yourtown>+<petname>+<YearOfYourCar>
>
> Only the recipient would know how to solve for the above.
>
> Or... the two of you could agree on using exactly the same
> book, and use something like this:
>
> passphrase = ourbook(the first 3 words on page 100, row 10)
>
>
> B> Doesn't work if it an account that we both need to be able
> B> to access (i.e., an admin password).
>
> That's a different matter. But for emails, and passworded
> files, a formula method like above could work.
>
>
> --
A workable idea, definately. Another simple option, if you're just looking for
the "keep prying eyes who might steal my laptop/gain my password" people out is
to send the password in an SMS.

Not as secure,especially if your phone is stolen, but if you delete the
message, it should protect you from 99% of the cases where you will need
encryption.

---
■ Synchronet ■ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org

Hello Boraxman!

** On Monday 25.04.22 - 09:47, Boraxman wrote to Ogg:

>> Or... the two of you could agree on using exactly the same
>> book, and use something like this:
>>
>> passphrase = ourbook(the first 3 words on page 100, row 10)

>> --
B> A workable idea, definately.

Two people can even establish a "phrase" based on a favourite
"anything" (a food item, wine, tech toy, book, etc..) ..and
simply pre-establish that you will use the first or last 5-
digits of the product code (or in the case of a book, part of
the isbn number.)

I get totally frustrated when some people send me eTransfers
and they put the answer to the passphrase right in the message
box (even when the system expressly reminds the user NOT to do
that.)

Or, they use something really simple like "the town you live
in". Anyone who knows me would know the answer to that.

It's a sad commentary that some people just don't appreciate
the relevance of keeping things like passphrases and passwords
private.

B> Another simple option, if you're just looking for the "keep
B> prying eyes who might steal my laptop/gain my password"
B> people out is to send the password in an SMS.

SMS is totally in the clear, and probably all logged - forever.

B> Not as secure,especially if your phone is stolen, but if
B> you delete the message, it should protect you from 99% of
B> the cases where you will need encryption.

Deleting an SMS on your phone, maybe. But all those messages
are accessible to the people who work in the phone industry.

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
� Synchronet � CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

-=> Ogg wrote to Boraxman <=-

Og> @MSGID: <6266CAFF.5137.dove-int@capitolcityonline.net>
Og> @REPLY: <6265E1A9.5336.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Og> Hello Boraxman!

Og> ** On Monday 25.04.22 - 09:47, Boraxman wrote to Ogg:

>> Or... the two of you could agree on using exactly the same
>> book, and use something like this:
>>
>> passphrase = ourbook(the first 3 words on page 100, row 10)

>> --
B> A workable idea, definately.

Og> Two people can even establish a "phrase" based on a favourite
Og> "anything" (a food item, wine, tech toy, book, etc..) ..and
Og> simply pre-establish that you will use the first or last 5-
Og> digits of the product code (or in the case of a book, part of
Og> the isbn number.)

Og> I get totally frustrated when some people send me eTransfers
Og> and they put the answer to the passphrase right in the message
Og> box (even when the system expressly reminds the user NOT to do
Og> that.)

Og> Or, they use something really simple like "the town you live
Og> in". Anyone who knows me would know the answer to that.

Og> It's a sad commentary that some people just don't appreciate
Og> the relevance of keeping things like passphrases and passwords
Og> private.

High trust in some cases. I did admin work, and people had no issue leaving me
passwords. This was a while ago, and sometimes they wanted me to help them
with their home computer, again, they just left me with the passwords.

The post-it notes with passwords were always a headache.

B> Another simple option, if you're just looking for the "keep
B> prying eyes who might steal my laptop/gain my password"
B> people out is to send the password in an SMS.

Og> SMS is totally in the clear, and probably all logged - forever.

B> Not as secure,especially if your phone is stolen, but if
B> you delete the message, it should protect you from 99% of
B> the cases where you will need encryption.

Og> Deleting an SMS on your phone, maybe. But all those messages
Og> are accessible to the people who work in the phone industry.

The level of security you need, is based on the threat. SMS's are in the
clear, but it would take a lot of work to match an SMS with with an account,
particularly if you say by e-mail you'll send the password by SMS, and send the
password by SMS alone, without any other information.

Someone could attack, but for the most part, if your laptop is stolen for
example, your safe, or any other compromise of your computer/e-mail.

Not ideal, but far better than sending it in the same email.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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