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dovenet / Synchronet Javascript / Javascript for dummies like me

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* Javascript for dummies like meSys64738
+* Javascript for dummies like meDigital Man
|`- Javascript for dummies like meSys64738
`* Javascript for dummies like meechicken
 `* Javascript for dummies like meSys64738
  `* Javascript for dummies like meechicken
   `* Javascript for dummies like meSys64738
    +* Javascript for dummies like meDigital Man
    |`* Javascript for dummies like meSys64738
    | +* Javascript for dummies like meechicken
    | |`- Javascript for dummies like meSys64738
    | +* Javascript for dummies like meDigital Man
    | |`* Javascript for dummies like meSys64738
    | | +* Javascript for dummies like meDigital Man
    | | |`* Javascript for dummies like meSys64738
    | | | +* Javascript for dummies like meechicken
    | | | |`* Javascript for dummies like meSys64738
    | | | | +* Javascript for dummies like meMRO
    | | | | |+- Javascript for dummies like meSys64738
    | | | | |`* Javascript for dummies like meNightfox
    | | | | | `- Javascript for dummies like meMRO
    | | | | `* Javascript for dummies like meechicken
    | | | |  `- Javascript for dummies like meSys64738
    | | | +* Javascript for dummies like meNightfox
    | | | |`* Javascript for dummies like meSys64738
    | | | | +* Javascript for dummies like meechicken
    | | | | |+* Javascript for dummies like meSys64738
    | | | | ||`* Javascript for dummies like meechicken
    | | | | || `* Javascript for dummies like meSys64738
    | | | | ||  `* Javascript for dummies like meechicken
    | | | | ||   +- Javascript for dummies like meDigital Man
    | | | | ||   +- Javascript for dummies like meNightfox
    | | | | ||   `* Javascript for dummies like meNightfox
    | | | | ||    `- Javascript for dummies like meMRO
    | | | | |`- Javascript for dummies like meDigital Man
    | | | | +* Javascript for dummies like meNightfox
    | | | | |`* Javascript for dummies like meSys64738
    | | | | | `* Javascript for dummies like meNightfox
    | | | | |  `* Javascript for dummies like meSys64738
    | | | | |   `- Javascript for dummies like meNightfox
    | | | | `- Re: Javascript for dummies like meTracker1
    | | | +* Javascript for dummies like meDigital Man
    | | | |`* Javascript for dummies like meSys64738
    | | | | `* Javascript for dummies like meDigital Man
    | | | |  +* Javascript for dummies like meDigital Man
    | | | |  |`* Javascript for dummies like meSys64738
    | | | |  | +* Javascript for dummies like meDigital Man
    | | | |  | |`* Javascript for dummies like meSys64738
    | | | |  | | `- Javascript for dummies like meDigital Man
    | | | |  | `- Javascript for dummies like meNightfox
    | | | |  `- Javascript for dummies like meSys64738
    | | | `- Re: Javascript for dummies like meTracker1
    | | `* Re: Javascript for dummies like meTracker1
    | |  `* Re: Javascript for dummies like meThe Lizard Master
    | |   `- Re: Javascript for dummies like meMRO
    | `* Javascript for dummies like meNightfox
    |  `- Javascript for dummies like meSys64738
    `- Javascript for dummies like meechicken

Pages:123
Javascript for dummies like me

<61AD5D1B.29.dove-syncjs@txnet1.synchro.net>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/dovenet/article-flat.php?id=633&group=DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript#633

 copy link   Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript
From: sys64738@VERT/TXNET1 (Sys64738)
To: All
Subject: Javascript for dummies like me
Message-ID: <61AD5D1B.29.dove-syncjs@txnet1.synchro.net>
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2021 11:45:15 -0600
X-Comment-To: All
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: TX Net 1
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript
X-FTN-PID: Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 Sep 20 2020 MSC 1927
X-FTN-CHRS: CP437 2
WhenImported: 20211205173102-0800 41e0
WhenExported: 20211205225749-0800 41e0
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=IBM437
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
 by: Sys64738 - Sun, 5 Dec 2021 17:45 UTC

I'm not new to programming. However, my skill set is rather dated (think "pre-internet").

Can anyone recommend any Javascript tutorials that are non-HTML and/or non-CSS driven? More to the point, Javascript tutorials that are drive for text output such as with BBS (not the web version)?

Everything I come across on the net seems to all be tailored for an HTML end result.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

SYS64738

---
■ Synchronet ■ TEXNet

Javascript for dummies like me

<61AD7B2A.3529.sync-js@vert.synchro.net>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/dovenet/article-flat.php?id=634&group=DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript#634

 copy link   Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript
From: digital.man@VERT (Digital Man)
To: Sys64738
Subject: Javascript for dummies like me
Message-ID: <61AD7B2A.3529.sync-js@vert.synchro.net>
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2021 11:53:30 -0800
X-Comment-To: Sys64738
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Vertrauen
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript
In-Reply-To: <61AD5D1B.29.dove-syncjs@txnet1.synchro.net>
References: <61AD5D1B.29.dove-syncjs@txnet1.synchro.net>
X-FTN-PID: Synchronet 3.19a-Win32 master/b15bd564e Dec 5 2021 MSC 1928
X-FTN-CHRS: CP437 2
WhenImported: 20211205185330-0800 41e0
WhenExported: 20211205225749-0800 41e0
ExportedFrom: VERT sync-js 3529
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=IBM437
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
 by: Digital Man - Sun, 5 Dec 2021 19:53 UTC

Re: Javascript for dummies like me
By: Sys64738 to All on Sun Dec 05 2021 06:45 pm

> I'm not new to programming. However, my skill set is rather dated (think
> "pre-internet").
>
> Can anyone recommend any Javascript tutorials that are non-HTML and/or
> non-CSS driven? More to the point, Javascript tutorials that are drive for
> text output such as with BBS (not the web version)?
>
> Everything I come across on the net seems to all be tailored for an HTML end
> result.
>
> Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

You're interested in "core JavaScript", https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference

And anything that is "text output such as with the BBS" is going to be defined in the Synchronet object model:
https://synchro.net/docs/jsobjs.html

You may find some base JavaScript tutorials that use console.log() to output text and you could just replace those calls with print() when using Synchronet.
--
digital man (rob)

Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #69:
SEXYZ = Synchronet External X/Y/ZMODEM file transfer protocol driver
Norco, CA WX: 58.6°F, 72.0% humidity, 1 mph E wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
---
■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net

Javascript for dummies like me

<61AD95F9.3498.sync_js@bbs.electronicchicken.com>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/dovenet/article-flat.php?id=635&group=DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript#635

 copy link   Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript
From: echicken@VERT/ECBBS (echicken)
To: Sys64738
Subject: Javascript for dummies like me
Message-ID: <61AD95F9.3498.sync_js@bbs.electronicchicken.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2021 21:47:53 -0500
X-Comment-To: Sys64738
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: electronic chicken bbs
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript
In-Reply-To: <61AD5D1B.29.dove-syncjs@txnet1.synchro.net>
References: <61AD5D1B.29.dove-syncjs@txnet1.synchro.net>
X-FTN-PID: Synchronet 3.19a-Linux master/813a9a5fa Nov 24 2021 GCC 9.3.0
X-FTN-CHRS: CP437 2
WhenImported: 20211205205413-0800 41e0
WhenExported: 20211205225749-0800 41e0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
 by: echicken - Mon, 6 Dec 2021 02:47 UTC

Re: Javascript for dummies like me
By: Sys64738 to All on Sun Dec 05 2021 18:45:15

Sy> Can anyone recommend any Javascript tutorials that are non-HTML and/or
Sy> non-CSS driven? More to the point, Javascript tutorials that are drive for
Sy> text output such as with BBS (not the web version)?

The MDN site that DM mentioned is a great reference, but bear in mind that not everything you see there will work in Synchronet. Our JS engine is a bit out of date, and some new features have been added to the language in the meantime.

MDN is not what I would call a tutorial, although you will find some sample scripts in many of the articles.

Sy> Everything I come across on the net seems to all be tailored for an HTML
Sy> end result.

Most JS tutorial content you find will focus on scripts running in a web browser, under node.js, or as part of a particular framework running on one or both of the above. It may be difficult for you to tell what's "core" JS and what's particular to the environment the tutorial is about.

We have the "core" JS stuff from about 10 years ago, and some custom things on top of that:

https://synchro.net/docs/jsobjs.html

I could go on, but the best thing you can do is dive in, refer to the heaps of JS that are included with Synchronet for examples, and ask questions when you get stuck. Find me on IRC if you want to chat; I have an unfortunate amount of knowledge on this subject.

---
echicken
electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
---
■ Synchronet ■ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com

Javascript for dummies like me

<61AE1617.33.dove-syncjs@txnet1.synchro.net>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/dovenet/article-flat.php?id=636&group=DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript#636

 copy link   Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript
From: sys64738@VERT/TXNET1 (Sys64738)
To: Digital Man
Subject: Javascript for dummies like me
Message-ID: <61AE1617.33.dove-syncjs@txnet1.synchro.net>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 00:54:31 -0600
X-Comment-To: Digital Man
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: TX Net 1
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript
In-Reply-To: <61AD7B2A.3529.sync-js@vert.synchro.net>
References: <61AD7B2A.3529.sync-js@vert.synchro.net>
X-FTN-PID: Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 Sep 20 2020 MSC 1927
X-FTN-CHRS: CP437 2
WhenImported: 20211206063132-0800 41e0
WhenExported: 20211206105753-0800 41e0
ExportedFrom: VERT sync-js 3532
WhenImported: 20211206075431-0600 4168
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ExportedFrom: TXNET1 dove-syncjs 33
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=IBM437
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
 by: Sys64738 - Mon, 6 Dec 2021 06:54 UTC

Re: Javascript for dummies like me
By: Digital Man to Sys64738 on Sun Dec 05 2021 18:53:30

> You're interested in "core JavaScript",
> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference
>
> And anything that is "text output such as with the BBS" is going to be
> defined in the Synchronet object model:
> https://synchro.net/docs/jsobjs.html
>
> You may find some base JavaScript tutorials that use console.log() to output
> text and you could just replace those calls with print() when using
> Synchronet. --

Awesome. I'll check those out. Thanks, Rob.
SYS64738

---
■ Synchronet ■ TEXNet

Javascript for dummies like me

<61AE17EF.34.dove-syncjs@txnet1.synchro.net>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/dovenet/article-flat.php?id=637&group=DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript#637

 copy link   Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript
From: sys64738@VERT/TXNET1 (Sys64738)
To: echicken
Subject: Javascript for dummies like me
Message-ID: <61AE17EF.34.dove-syncjs@txnet1.synchro.net>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 01:02:23 -0600
X-Comment-To: echicken
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: TX Net 1
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript
In-Reply-To: <61AD95F9.3498.sync_js@bbs.electronicchicken.com>
References: <61AD95F9.3498.sync_js@bbs.electronicchicken.com>
X-FTN-PID: Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 Sep 20 2020 MSC 1927
X-FTN-CHRS: CP437 2
WhenImported: 20211206063132-0800 41e0
WhenExported: 20211206105754-0800 41e0
ExportedFrom: VERT sync-js 3533
WhenImported: 20211206080223-0600 4168
WhenExported: 20211206083130-0600 4168
ExportedFrom: TXNET1 dove-syncjs 34
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=IBM437
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
 by: Sys64738 - Mon, 6 Dec 2021 07:02 UTC

Re: Javascript for dummies like me
By: echicken to Sys64738 on Mon Dec 06 2021 04:47:53

> MDN is not what I would call a tutorial, although you will find some sample
> scripts in many of the articles.

In this instance, I think I'd probably learn faster with sample scripts instead of full-on beginner tutorials. When I see the commands and their functions in the sample scripts, I'll be able to relate that to my past "dated" knowledge. Sure, it won't be spot-on accurate, but at least it will give me a starting point and I can troubleshoot from there.

> Most JS tutorial content you find will focus on scripts running in a web
> browser, under node.js, or as part of a particular framework running on one
> or both of the above. It may be difficult for you to tell what's "core" JS
> and what's particular to the environment the tutorial is about.

That's understandable since Javascript was original purpose was intended to be used in conjunction with HTML.

> We have the "core" JS stuff from about 10 years ago, and some custom things
> on top of that:
>
> https://synchro.net/docs/jsobjs.html

I'll check that out as well.

> I could go on, but the best thing you can do is dive in, refer to the heaps
> of JS that are included with Synchronet for examples, and ask questions when
> you get stuck. Find me on IRC if you want to chat; I have an unfortunate
> amount of knowledge on this subject.

Will do. Thanks for the info!
SYS64738

---
■ Synchronet ■ TEXNet

Javascript for dummies like me

<61AE2F2B.3502.sync_js@bbs.electronicchicken.com>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/dovenet/article-flat.php?id=638&group=DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript#638

 copy link   Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript
From: echicken@VERT/ECBBS (echicken)
To: Sys64738
Subject: Javascript for dummies like me
Message-ID: <61AE2F2B.3502.sync_js@bbs.electronicchicken.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 08:41:31 -0500
X-Comment-To: Sys64738
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: electronic chicken bbs
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript
In-Reply-To: <61AE17EF.34.dove-syncjs@txnet1.synchro.net>
References: <61AE17EF.34.dove-syncjs@txnet1.synchro.net>
X-FTN-PID: Synchronet 3.19a-Linux master/813a9a5fa Nov 24 2021 GCC 9.3.0
X-FTN-CHRS: CP437 2
WhenImported: 20211206075417-0800 41e0
WhenExported: 20211206105754-0800 41e0
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ExportedFrom: ECBBS sync_js 3502
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=IBM437
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
 by: echicken - Mon, 6 Dec 2021 13:41 UTC

Re: Javascript for dummies like me
By: Sys64738 to echicken on Mon Dec 06 2021 08:02:23

Sy> "dated" knowledge. Sure, it won't be spot-on accurate, but at least it
Sy> will give me a starting point and I can troubleshoot from there.

The inaccuracy here is going to be stuff like:

const num = n => Promise.resolve(n);

function addNums([a, b]) {
return a + b;
}

async function three() {
let a = await num(1);
let b = await num(2);
let c = addNums([a, b]);
console.log(c);
}

three();

Admittedly this is a stupid example, but it would work in eg. a modern browser but not in our environment. We don't have Promises, we don't have 'async', 'await', 'let', array destructure, or 'console.log', and if memory serves even our 'const' behaves a bit differently than today's.

Sy> That's understandable since Javascript was original purpose was intended
Sy> to be used in conjunction with HTML.

Though to be clear, JS is just a language and there's nothing inherently web-browserey about it. You'll see mention out there that JS is "event driven" and "asynchronous by nature" and this isn't strictly true. All of it comes down to the implementation. Just be mindful that most of what's written about JS is written with browsers or node.js in mind, by people who never needed to look beyond that space.

---
echicken
electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
---
■ Synchronet ■ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com

Javascript for dummies like me

<61AEA546.36.dove-syncjs@txnet1.synchro.net>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/dovenet/article-flat.php?id=639&group=DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript#639

 copy link   Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript
From: sys64738@VERT/TXNET1 (Sys64738)
To: echicken
Subject: Javascript for dummies like me
Message-ID: <61AEA546.36.dove-syncjs@txnet1.synchro.net>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 11:05:26 -0600
X-Comment-To: echicken
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: TX Net 1
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript
In-Reply-To: <61AE2F2B.3502.sync_js@bbs.electronicchicken.com>
References: <61AE2F2B.3502.sync_js@bbs.electronicchicken.com>
X-FTN-PID: Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 Sep 20 2020 MSC 1927
X-FTN-CHRS: CP437 2
WhenImported: 20211206163154-0800 41e0
WhenExported: 20211206165757-0800 41e0
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ExportedFrom: TXNET1 dove-syncjs 36
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=IBM437
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
 by: Sys64738 - Mon, 6 Dec 2021 17:05 UTC

Re: Javascript for dummies like me
By: echicken to Sys64738 on Mon Dec 06 2021 15:41:31

> Though to be clear, JS is just a language and there's nothing inherently
> web-browserey about it. You'll see mention out there that JS is "event
> driven" and "asynchronous by nature" and this isn't strictly true.

THAT has become glaringly apparent to me from everything I found while searching.

> Just be mindful that most of what's written about JS is written with > browsers or node.js in mind, by people who never needed to look beyond
> that space.

I think you understand exactly what I'm getting at. It's the JavaScript info that is HTML/CSS-centric that I'm trying to weed my way through.

SYS64738

---
■ Synchronet ■ TEXNet

Javascript for dummies like me

<61AEB3F5.3536.sync-js@vert.synchro.net>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/dovenet/article-flat.php?id=640&group=DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript#640

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From: digital.man@VERT (Digital Man)
To: Sys64738
Subject: Javascript for dummies like me
Message-ID: <61AEB3F5.3536.sync-js@vert.synchro.net>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 10:08:05 -0800
X-Comment-To: Sys64738
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Vertrauen
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript
In-Reply-To: <61AEA546.36.dove-syncjs@txnet1.synchro.net>
References: <61AEA546.36.dove-syncjs@txnet1.synchro.net>
X-FTN-PID: Synchronet 3.19a-Win32 master/b15bd564e Dec 5 2021 MSC 1928
X-FTN-CHRS: CP437 2
WhenImported: 20211206170805-0800 41e0
WhenExported: 20211206225750-0800 41e0
ExportedFrom: VERT sync-js 3536
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=IBM437
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
 by: Digital Man - Mon, 6 Dec 2021 18:08 UTC

Re: Javascript for dummies like me
By: Sys64738 to echicken on Mon Dec 06 2021 06:05 pm

> I think you understand exactly what I'm getting at. It's the JavaScript info
> that is HTML/CSS-centric that I'm trying to weed my way through.

.... or Node.JS, which is often *not* HTML/CSS-centric.
--
digital man (rob)

Synchronet "Real Fact" #121:
Synchronet v2.20a for DOS was released on Aug 31, 1995 (5 months after v2.11a)
Norco, CA WX: 58.7°F, 81.0% humidity, 0 mph E wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
---
■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net

Javascript for dummies like me

<61AECCEF.38.dove-syncjs@txnet1.synchro.net>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/dovenet/article-flat.php?id=641&group=DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript#641

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From: sys64738@VERT/TXNET1 (Sys64738)
To: Digital Man
Subject: Javascript for dummies like me
Message-ID: <61AECCEF.38.dove-syncjs@txnet1.synchro.net>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 13:54:39 -0600
X-Comment-To: Digital Man
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: TX Net 1
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript
In-Reply-To: <61AEB3F5.3536.sync-js@vert.synchro.net>
References: <61AEB3F5.3536.sync-js@vert.synchro.net>
X-FTN-PID: Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 Sep 20 2020 MSC 1927
X-FTN-CHRS: CP437 2
WhenImported: 20211206193206-0800 41e0
WhenExported: 20211206225750-0800 41e0
ExportedFrom: VERT sync-js 3537
WhenImported: 20211206205439-0600 4168
WhenExported: 20211206213200-0600 4168
ExportedFrom: TXNET1 dove-syncjs 38
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=IBM437
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
 by: Sys64738 - Mon, 6 Dec 2021 19:54 UTC

Re: Javascript for dummies like me
By: Digital Man to Sys64738 on Mon Dec 06 2021 17:08:05

> > I think you understand exactly what I'm getting at. It's the JavaScript
> > info that is HTML/CSS-centric that I'm trying to weed my way through.
>
> ... or Node.JS, which is often *not* HTML/CSS-centric.

Exactly.

Is there a particular script editor that you guys recommend for writing Javascipt that works best for this purpose? I've been using Visual Code Studio, but it doesn't seem to recognize "console.print" or "prompt" for some reason.

Sorry for all the newbie questions.
SYS64738

---
■ Synchronet ■ TEXNet

Javascript for dummies like me

<61AEDEAC.3506.sync_js@bbs.electronicchicken.com>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/dovenet/article-flat.php?id=642&group=DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript#642

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From: echicken@VERT/ECBBS (echicken)
To: Sys64738
Subject: Javascript for dummies like me
Message-ID: <61AEDEAC.3506.sync_js@bbs.electronicchicken.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 21:10:20 -0500
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 by: echicken - Tue, 7 Dec 2021 02:10 UTC

Re: Javascript for dummies like me
By: Sys64738 to echicken on Mon Dec 06 2021 18:05:26

Sy> I think you understand exactly what I'm getting at. It's the JavaScript
Sy> info that is HTML/CSS-centric that I'm trying to weed my way through.

Hate to say it, but you just have to power through it. You'll eventually get a feel for what information is portable and what is tied to a certain domain.

It was like this 10+ years ago when I started learning JS. It's only gotten "worse" since then, considering how the language has proliferated.

Somehow I managed to learn JS for Synchronet first. It was two or three years before I started using it elsewhere (browsers, node.js).

---
echicken
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From: echicken@VERT/ECBBS (echicken)
To: Sys64738
Subject: Javascript for dummies like me
Message-ID: <61AEE030.3507.sync_js@bbs.electronicchicken.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 21:16:48 -0500
X-Comment-To: Sys64738
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 by: echicken - Tue, 7 Dec 2021 02:16 UTC

Re: Javascript for dummies like me
By: Sys64738 to Digital Man on Mon Dec 06 2021 20:54:39

Sy> Is there a particular script editor that you guys recommend for writing
Sy> Javascipt that works best for this purpose? I've been using Visual Code
Sy> Studio, but it doesn't seem to recognize "console.print" or "prompt" for
Sy> some reason.

I use Visual Studio Code, and I just accept that its language features aren't always going to be accurate. I refer to jsobjs.html when I need to know what parameters a function requires, or what it will return, rather than trust the hints that come up in VS Code.

---
echicken
electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
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From: digital.man@VERT (Digital Man)
To: Sys64738
Subject: Javascript for dummies like me
Message-ID: <61AEEAE9.3540.sync-js@vert.synchro.net>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 14:02:33 -0800
X-Comment-To: Sys64738
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
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Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript
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 by: Digital Man - Mon, 6 Dec 2021 22:02 UTC

Re: Javascript for dummies like me
By: Sys64738 to Digital Man on Mon Dec 06 2021 08:54 pm

> > > I think you understand exactly what I'm getting at. It's the
> > > JavaScript info that is HTML/CSS-centric that I'm trying to weed my
> > > way through.
>
> > ... or Node.JS, which is often *not* HTML/CSS-centric.
>
> Exactly.
>
> Is there a particular script editor that you guys recommend for writing
> Javascipt that works best for this purpose? I've been using Visual Code
> Studio, but it doesn't seem to recognize "console.print" or "prompt" for
> some reason.

I use notepad++ on Windows and vim or geany on Linux. The editor doesn't have to recognize an object/method/property for you to use it.

> Sorry for all the newbie questions.

No problem.
--
digital man (rob)

Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #27:
DTE = Data Terminal Equipment
Norco, CA WX: 53.1°F, 94.0% humidity, 0 mph S wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
---
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From: sys64738@VERT/TXNET1 (Sys64738)
To: echicken
Subject: Javascript for dummies like me
Message-ID: <61AF74D7.43.dove-syncjs@txnet1.synchro.net>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 01:51:03 -0600
X-Comment-To: echicken
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: TX Net 1
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript
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 by: Sys64738 - Tue, 7 Dec 2021 07:51 UTC

Re: Javascript for dummies like me
By: echicken to Sys64738 on Tue Dec 07 2021 04:16:48

> I use Visual Studio Code, and I just accept that its language features
> aren't always going to be accurate. I refer to jsobjs.html when I need to
> know what parameters a function requires, or what it will return, rather
> than trust the hints that come up in VS Code.

Oh wow. This looks like my kind of adventure!

SYS64738

---
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From: sys64738@VERT/TXNET1 (Sys64738)
To: Digital Man
Subject: Javascript for dummies like me
Message-ID: <61AF77B8.44.dove-syncjs@txnet1.synchro.net>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 02:03:20 -0600
X-Comment-To: Digital Man
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: TX Net 1
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript
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 by: Sys64738 - Tue, 7 Dec 2021 08:03 UTC

Re: Javascript for dummies like me
By: Digital Man to Sys64738 on Mon Dec 06 2021 21:02:33

> I use notepad++ on Windows and vim or geany on Linux. The editor doesn't
> have to recognize an object/method/property for you to use it.

I started out just using plain notepad. Since this is all new to me, I thought that I might benefit from the hints/debugging features from an editor.
However, it seems that programming has become less uniform and less certain since the years when I was most involved (80's-90's). The paved roads of years past seem to have not been maintained and people often find themselves cutting their own path to get to where they want to go.

In your opinion, would that be an accurate assessment?

SYS64738

---
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Javascript for dummies like me

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From: nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST (Nightfox)
To: Sys64738
Subject: Javascript for dummies like me
Message-ID: <61AF96CC.3474.dove_sync_js@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 02:15:56 -0800
X-Comment-To: Sys64738
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Digital Distortion
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript
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 by: Nightfox - Tue, 7 Dec 2021 10:15 UTC

Re: Javascript for dummies like me
By: Sys64738 to Digital Man on Mon Dec 06 2021 08:54 pm

Sy> Javascipt that works best for this purpose? I've been using Visual Code
Sy> Studio

Do you mean Visual Studio Code?

Nightfox

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From: digital.man@VERT (Digital Man)
To: Sys64738
Subject: Javascript for dummies like me
Message-ID: <61AFCA62.3545.sync-js@vert.synchro.net>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 05:56:02 -0800
X-Comment-To: Sys64738
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Vertrauen
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript
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 by: Digital Man - Tue, 7 Dec 2021 13:56 UTC

Re: Javascript for dummies like me
By: Sys64738 to Digital Man on Tue Dec 07 2021 09:03 am

> Re: Javascript for dummies like me
> By: Digital Man to Sys64738 on Mon Dec 06 2021 21:02:33
>
> > I use notepad++ on Windows and vim or geany on Linux. The editor doesn't
> > have to recognize an object/method/property for you to use it.
>
> I started out just using plain notepad.

Yeah, that would be my last choice, mainly due to no syntax highlighting.

> Since this is all new to me, I
> thought that I might benefit from the hints/debugging features from an
> editor.
> However, it seems that programming has become less uniform and less certain
> since the years when I was most involved (80's-90's). The paved roads of
> years past seem to have not been maintained and people often find themselves
> cutting their own path to get to where they want to go.
>
> In your opinion, would that be an accurate assessment?

I think the tools are far better and more "paved" than they were in the '80s and '90s.
--
digital man (rob)

Breaking Bad quote #4:
Tagging trees is a lot better than chasing monsters. - Hank
Norco, CA WX: 59.6°F, 80.0% humidity, 3 mph NW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
---
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From: sys64738@VERT/TXNET1 (Sys64738)
To: Nightfox
Subject: Javascript for dummies like me
Message-ID: <61B19526.47.dove-syncjs@txnet1.synchro.net>
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 16:33:26 -0600
X-Comment-To: Nightfox
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: TX Net 1
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 by: Sys64738 - Wed, 8 Dec 2021 22:33 UTC

Re: Javascript for dummies like me
By: Nightfox to Sys64738 on Tue Dec 07 2021 09:15:56

> Sy> Javascipt that works best for this purpose? I've been using Visual Code
> Sy> Studio
>
> Do you mean Visual Studio Code?

Yes.
SYS64738

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From: sys64738@VERT/TXNET1 (Sys64738)
To: Digital Man
Subject: Javascript for dummies like me
Message-ID: <61B19637.48.dove-syncjs@txnet1.synchro.net>
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 16:37:59 -0600
X-Comment-To: Digital Man
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
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 by: Sys64738 - Wed, 8 Dec 2021 22:37 UTC

Re: Javascript for dummies like me
By: Digital Man to Sys64738 on Tue Dec 07 2021 12:56:02

> > However, it seems that programming has become less uniform and less
> > certain since the years when I was most involved (80's-90's). The paved
> > roads of years past seem to have not been maintained and people often
> > find themselves cutting their own path to get to where they want to go.
>
> > In your opinion, would that be an accurate assessment?
>
> I think the tools are far better and more "paved" than they were in the '80s
> and '90s.

No doubt, the tools are far better. However, there doesn't seem to be as much consistency in the syntax of the programming languages that I've observed. Such as with "console.print" as an example. I'm not understanding why that command wouldn't be universal and a common command within JavaScript.

SYS64738

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From: echicken@VERT/ECBBS (echicken)
To: Sys64738
Subject: Javascript for dummies like me
Message-ID: <61B20FC6.3516.sync_js@bbs.electronicchicken.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 07:16:38 -0500
X-Comment-To: Sys64738
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: electronic chicken bbs
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 by: echicken - Thu, 9 Dec 2021 12:16 UTC

Re: Javascript for dummies like me
By: Sys64738 to Digital Man on Wed Dec 08 2021 23:37:59

Sy> No doubt, the tools are far better. However, there doesn't seem to be as
Sy> much consistency in the syntax of the programming languages that I've

True, but there's a diversity of languages because lots of people had their own ideas about how things should work, from syntax down to nuts and bolts.

Sy> observed. Such as with "console.print" as an example. I'm not
Sy> understanding why that command wouldn't be universal and a common command
Sy> within JavaScript.

For whatever reason, JS has a fairly weak standard library and a lot of stuff is left to the implementor. Depending on where your JS is running, the notion of a 'console' to send output to might have a very different meaning.

MDN says that 'console' appeared in browsers around the era of IE8, Firefox 4, Chrome 1, Safari 3. It probably wasn't widespread until at least 10 years ago. Its purpose is mostly to output debug info to a browser's dev tools console. Even then, it's just a convention and not part of the standard.

Meanwhile Synchronet already had an object by that time which (presumably) DM chose to call 'console'. It has a different purpose entirely, even if it seems superficially similar to the 'console' in browsers or node.js.

So, it's an unfortunate coincidence, and just one of those places where the line between standard/core JS and specific implementations gets a bit fuzzy.

---
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From: nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST (Nightfox)
To: Sys64738
Subject: Javascript for dummies like me
Message-ID: <61B236E4.3479.dove_sync_js@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 02:03:32 -0800
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Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Digital Distortion
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript
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 by: Nightfox - Thu, 9 Dec 2021 10:03 UTC

Re: Javascript for dummies like me
By: Sys64738 to Digital Man on Wed Dec 08 2021 11:37 pm

Sy> No doubt, the tools are far better. However, there doesn't seem to be as
Sy> much consistency in the syntax of the programming languages that I've
Sy> observed. Such as with "console.print" as an example. I'm not
Sy> understanding why that command wouldn't be universal and a common command
Sy> within JavaScript.

In that case, it's mainly that Synchronet has defined its own custom JavaScript interface. It's possible to embed JavaScript into C/C++ projects (and projects using other languages) and define your own custom JavaScript API for your scripting needs. Doing so actually allows you a lot of flexibility.

The console object defined in Synchronet's JS API might have fairly different requirements than for other contexts. When developing JS for a web browser, there is a 'console' object, but that's a totally different thing. The JS console object for Synchronet is for the text-based interface that the user is logged into when using telnet, RLogin, SSH, etc., whereas the web console object in JS is for the web browser's debugging console. I don't think it would really make sense for Synchronet to share the same console object as a web browser.

Nightfox

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From: digital.man@VERT (Digital Man)
To: Sys64738
Subject: Javascript for dummies like me
Message-ID: <61B25F94.3550.sync-js@vert.synchro.net>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 04:57:08 -0800
X-Comment-To: Sys64738
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Vertrauen
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Javascript
In-Reply-To: <61B19637.48.dove-syncjs@txnet1.synchro.net>
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 by: Digital Man - Thu, 9 Dec 2021 12:57 UTC

Re: Javascript for dummies like me
By: Sys64738 to Digital Man on Wed Dec 08 2021 11:37 pm

> Re: Javascript for dummies like me
> By: Digital Man to Sys64738 on Tue Dec 07 2021 12:56:02
>
> > > However, it seems that programming has become less uniform and less
> > > certain since the years when I was most involved (80's-90's). The
> > > paved roads of years past seem to have not been maintained and people
> > > often find themselves cutting their own path to get to where they want
> > > to go.
>
> > > In your opinion, would that be an accurate assessment?
>
> > I think the tools are far better and more "paved" than they were in the
> > '80s and '90s.
>
> No doubt, the tools are far better. However, there doesn't seem to be as
> much consistency in the syntax of the programming languages that I've
> observed. Such as with "console.print" as an example. I'm not understanding
> why that command wouldn't be universal and a common command within
> JavaScript.

Because JavaScript was designed without a "console" in mind. Core JavaScript makes no assumptions about the I/O capabilities (screen, file, or otherwise) of the environment in which the script is running.
--
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Rush quote #53:
He picks up scraps of conversation, radio and radiation .. Digital Man
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Javascript for dummies like me

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From: sys64738@VERT/TXNET1 (Sys64738)
To: echicken
Subject: Javascript for dummies like me
Message-ID: <61B364B7.52.dove-syncjs@txnet1.synchro.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 01:31:19 -0600
X-Comment-To: echicken
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 by: Sys64738 - Fri, 10 Dec 2021 07:31 UTC

Re: Javascript for dummies like me
By: echicken to Sys64738 on Thu Dec 09 2021 14:16:38

> For whatever reason, JS has a fairly weak standard library and a lot of
> stuff is left to the implementor. Depending on where your JS is running, the
> notion of a 'console' to send output to might have a very different meaning.
>
> MDN says that 'console' appeared in browsers around the era of IE8, Firefox
> 4, Chrome 1, Safari 3. It probably wasn't widespread until at least 10 years
> ago. Its purpose is mostly to output debug info to a browser's dev tools
> console. Even then, it's just a convention and not part of the standard.
>
> Meanwhile Synchronet already had an object by that time which (presumably)
> DM chose to call 'console'. It has a different purpose entirely, even if it
> seems superficially similar to the 'console' in browsers or node.js.

This language sounds like a make it up as you go free for all. Sorta like building the bicycle while you ride it. What could go wrong? lol
SYS64738

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From: sys64738@VERT/TXNET1 (Sys64738)
To: Nightfox
Subject: Javascript for dummies like me
Message-ID: <61B3659B.53.dove-syncjs@txnet1.synchro.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 01:35:07 -0600
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 by: Sys64738 - Fri, 10 Dec 2021 07:35 UTC

Re: Javascript for dummies like me
By: Nightfox to Sys64738 on Thu Dec 09 2021 09:03:32

> The console object defined in Synchronet's JS API might have fairly
> different requirements than for other contexts. When developing JS for a
> web browser, there is a 'console' object, but that's a totally different
> thing. The JS console object for Synchronet is for the text-based interface

I understand what you're saying. Thanks for explaining.

However, the concept of people making up their own commands seems like a taking a long walk on a short pier.
SYS64738

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From: mro@VERT/BBSESINF (MRO)
To: Sys64738
Subject: Javascript for dummies like me
Message-ID: <61B36997.3104.sync_js@bbses.info>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 01:52:07 -0600
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 by: MRO - Fri, 10 Dec 2021 07:52 UTC

Re: Javascript for dummies like me
By: Sys64738 to echicken on Fri Dec 10 2021 08:31 am

>
> This language sounds like a make it up as you go free for all. Sorta like
> building the bicycle while you ride it. What could go wrong? lol

isnt that how computing has always been? that's how engineers do things, isn't it?
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From: echicken@VERT/ECBBS (echicken)
To: Sys64738
Subject: Javascript for dummies like me
Message-ID: <61B36D60.3521.sync_js@bbs.electronicchicken.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 08:08:16 -0500
X-Comment-To: Sys64738
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 by: echicken - Fri, 10 Dec 2021 13:08 UTC

Re: Javascript for dummies like me
By: Sys64738 to echicken on Fri Dec 10 2021 08:31:19

Sy> This language sounds like a make it up as you go free for all. Sorta like
Sy> building the bicycle while you ride it. What could go wrong? lol

Not that it's such a great language - it has strengths and weaknesses - but
this is more a problem of understanding how the language and the implementation relate to each other.

JS is typically used as a scripting environment embedded in some other application. The 'parent' application might be written in C or Java for example. The parent application might be a BBS, a print accounting system, an authentication provider, the firmware on a radio, a web browser, or a development platform like node.js. (These are places where I've used JS.)

Sometimes the parent application uses JS sparingly, eg. some event happens, and a script is executed to do a few custom things. Sometimes the entire point of the parent application is to run your JS and let it access system resources (files, network, etc.) It all depends.

You absolutely want to make certain things up as you go along, if you're embedding a JS engine in your product. There are things you'll want scripts to be able to do which have no rightful place in the language's core. This can be done well and it can be done poorly, but it's not inherently wrong.

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