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dovenet / Internet / the nothing to hide a

SubjectAuthor
* Re: the nothing to hide aOtto Reverse
+* Re: the nothing to hide aMRO
|+- Re: the nothing to hide aBoraxman
|+* the nothing to hide aOgg
||`* the nothing to hide aBoraxman
|| +* the nothing to hide aOgg
|| |`* the nothing to hide aBoraxman
|| | `* the nothing to hide aSYS64738
|| |  `* the nothing to hide aBoraxman
|| |   `* the nothing to hide aNightfox
|| |    `* the nothing to hide aMRO
|| |     +* the nothing to hide aAndre
|| |     |`- the nothing to hide aMRO
|| |     +* the nothing to hide aBoraxman
|| |     |`- the nothing to hide aMRO
|| |     `* the nothing to hide aPhigan
|| |      +* the nothing to hide aMewcenary
|| |      |`- Re: the nothing to hide aGamgee
|| |      +* the nothing to hide aDigital Man
|| |      |`- the nothing to hide aPhigan
|| |      +* the nothing to hide aArelor
|| |      |+* the nothing to hide acr1mson
|| |      ||+* the nothing to hide aNightfox
|| |      |||+- the nothing to hide aMRO
|| |      |||`* the nothing to hide acr1mson
|| |      ||| `- the nothing to hide aMRO
|| |      ||`- the nothing to hide aMRO
|| |      |`* the nothing to hide aNightfox
|| |      | +- the nothing to hide aAndre
|| |      | +- the nothing to hide aMRO
|| |      | `* Re: the nothing to hide aVk3jed
|| |      |  +* Re: the nothing to hide aNightfox
|| |      |  |+- Re: the nothing to hide aDigital Man
|| |      |  |+- Re: the nothing to hide aMewcenary
|| |      |  |+- Re: the nothing to hide aArelor
|| |      |  |`* Re: the nothing to hide aVk3jed
|| |      |  | +* Re: the nothing to hide aAndre
|| |      |  | |+* Re: the nothing to hide aArelor
|| |      |  | ||`* Re: the nothing to hide aAndre
|| |      |  | || `- Re: the nothing to hide aArelor
|| |      |  | |`- Re: the nothing to hide aVk3jed
|| |      |  | `* Re: the nothing to hide apoindexter FORTRAN
|| |      |  |  `- Re: the nothing to hide aVk3jed
|| |      |  `* Re: the nothing to hide aMRO
|| |      |   `* Re: the nothing to hide aVk3jed
|| |      |    +* Re: the nothing to hide aMRO
|| |      |    |`* Re: the nothing to hide aVk3jed
|| |      |    | `* Re: the nothing to hide aMRO
|| |      |    |  `- Re: the nothing to hide acr1mson
|| |      |    `* Re: the nothing to hide aAndre
|| |      |     `- Re: the nothing to hide aVk3jed
|| |      +- the nothing to hide aMRO
|| |      `- Re: the nothing to hide aVk3jed
|| `* the nothing to hide aJazzy J
||  `- Re: the nothing to hide aBoraxman
|`* Re: the nothing to hide aMoondog
| +- Re: the nothing to hide aMRO
| `* Re: the nothing to hide aBoraxman
|  `* Re: the nothing to hide aMoondog
|   `* Re: the nothing to hide aBoraxman
|    `* Re: the nothing to hide aMoondog
|     +* Re: the nothing to hide aBoraxman
|     |`- Re: the nothing to hide aMoondog
|     `- Re: the nothing to hide apoindexter FORTRAN
`- Re: the nothing to hide aBoraxman

Pages:123
Re: the nothing to hide a

<6206D53A.8334.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/dovenet/article-flat.php?id=559&group=DOVE-Net.Internet#559

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From: otto.reverse@VERT/BEERS20 (Otto Reverse)
To: Boraxman
Subject: Re: the nothing to hide a
Message-ID: <6206D53A.8334.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2022 05:35:00 +0000
X-Comment-To: Boraxman
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
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 by: Otto Reverse - Fri, 11 Feb 2022 05:35 UTC

Bo> > > yeah what happened to do no evil
Bo> >
Bo> > They removed that motto back in 2018 after doing a lot of evil.
Bo> Hasn't affected their popularity though. Humans are happy with evil if
Bo> it is convienient for them.

So true. Used to be a time when people wanted things like privacy simply for privacy's sake. Remember phone booths? Now people know (even if vaguely) that Google/Apple/Amazon are listening in yet they still buy "smart speakers" etc for the convenience.

Re: the nothing to hide a

<6206E9A7.1102.dove-int@bbses.info>

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From: mro@VERT/BBSESINF (MRO)
To: Otto Reverse
Subject: Re: the nothing to hide a
Message-ID: <6206E9A7.1102.dove-int@bbses.info>
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2022 09:56:39 -0600
X-Comment-To: Otto Reverse
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: bbses.info
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <6206D53A.8334.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>
References: <6206D53A.8334.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>
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 by: MRO - Fri, 11 Feb 2022 15:56 UTC

Re: Re: the nothing to hide a
By: Otto Reverse to Boraxman on Fri Feb 11 2022 12:35 pm

> Bo> > > yeah what happened to do no evil
>
> Bo> > They removed that motto back in 2018 after doing a lot of evil.
> Bo> Hasn't affected their popularity though. Humans are happy with evil if
> Bo> it is convienient for them.
>
> So true. Used to be a time when people wanted things like privacy simply for
> privacy's sake. Remember phone booths? Now people know (even if vaguely)
> that Google/Apple/Amazon are listening in yet they still buy "smart
> speakers" etc for the convenience.

our phones and the services we use on desktop computers are most certainly spying the fuck out of us.
several apps and browsers and cookies are all part of it.

it's too late, we handed it to them. we wont get our privacy back.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: the nothing to hide a

<6206F649.5201.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/dovenet/article-flat.php?id=561&group=DOVE-Net.Internet#561

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From: boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS (Boraxman)
To: Otto Reverse
Subject: Re: the nothing to hide a
Message-ID: <6206F649.5201.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2022 03:50:33 +1100
X-Comment-To: Otto Reverse
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: MS & RD BBs
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <6206D53A.8334.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>
References: <6206D53A.8334.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>
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 by: Boraxman - Fri, 11 Feb 2022 16:50 UTC

Re: Re: the nothing to hide a
By: Otto Reverse to Boraxman on Fri Feb 11 2022 12:35 pm

> Bo> > > yeah what happened to do no evil
>
> Bo> > They removed that motto back in 2018 after doing a lot of evil.
> Bo> Hasn't affected their popularity though. Humans are happy with evil if
> Bo> it is convienient for them.
>
> So true. Used to be a time when people wanted things like privacy simply for
> privacy's sake. Remember phone booths? Now people know (even if vaguely) tha
> Google/Apple/Amazon are listening in yet they still buy "smart speakers" etc
> for the convenience.

What perplexes me, is that there are people I know (admittedly few), who share
these concerns, greatly, but still buy these items. One I know will talk about
Big Tech censorship, how Google skews its searches and manipulates us, but you
can "Hey Google" in his house and Google responds!

I think in part people arguing that privacy isn't important is a cope. They
feel powerless, unwilling to fight or make the harder consumer choices to
maintain freedom, so they just reorganise their values to suit the situation
pushed upon then.

People only really started using this "privacy doesn't matter" argument once

---
■ Synchronet ■ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org

Re: the nothing to hide a

<62079BAD.5203.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>

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From: boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS (Boraxman)
To: MRO
Subject: Re: the nothing to hide a
Message-ID: <62079BAD.5203.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2022 15:36:13 +1100
X-Comment-To: MRO
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: MS & RD BBs
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <6206E9A7.1102.dove-int@bbses.info>
References: <6206E9A7.1102.dove-int@bbses.info>
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 by: Boraxman - Sat, 12 Feb 2022 04:36 UTC

Re: Re: the nothing to hide a
By: MRO to Otto Reverse on Fri Feb 11 2022 04:56 pm

> our phones and the services we use on desktop computers are most certainly
> spying the fuck out of us.
> several apps and browsers and cookies are all part of it.
>
> it's too late, we handed it to them. we wont get our privacy back.

That is incredibly unethical, and these companies have the gall to crow about
their values and their goodness and how they are socially responsible.

Silicon Valley truly is satans arsehole of the world, where awefulness emerges
to stain the world.

---
■ Synchronet ■ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org

the nothing to hide a

<6207C235.5003.dove-int@capitolcityonline.net>

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From: ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 (Ogg)
To: MRO
Subject: the nothing to hide a
Message-ID: <6207C235.5003.dove-int@capitolcityonline.net>
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2022 02:12:00 -0500
X-Comment-To: MRO
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <6206E9A7.1102.dove-int@bbses.info>
References: <6206E9A7.1102.dove-int@bbses.info>
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 by: Ogg - Sat, 12 Feb 2022 07:12 UTC

Hello MRO!

** On Friday 11.02.22 - 16:56, MRO wrote to Otto Reverse:

M> it's too late, we handed it to them. we wont get our privacy back.

A lament on privacy from 1972..

https://kolico.ca/mpg/TGC1972-privacy.mp4

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
� Synchronet � CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

the nothing to hide a

<62084A5E.5205.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>

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From: boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS (Boraxman)
To: Ogg
Subject: the nothing to hide a
Message-ID: <62084A5E.5205.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2022 04:01:34 +1100
X-Comment-To: Ogg
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: MS & RD BBs
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <6207C235.5003.dove-int@capitolcityonline.net>
References: <6207C235.5003.dove-int@capitolcityonline.net>
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 by: Boraxman - Sat, 12 Feb 2022 17:01 UTC

Re: the nothing to hide a
By: Ogg to MRO on Sat Feb 12 2022 09:12 am

> Hello MRO!
>
> ** On Friday 11.02.22 - 16:56, MRO wrote to Otto Reverse:
>
> M> it's too late, we handed it to them. we wont get our privacy back.
>
>
> A lament on privacy from 1972..
>
> https://kolico.ca/mpg/TGC1972-privacy.mp4

Time to start pushing back, through example.

There is one rule that I think everyone should adopt. Electronic communication
should not be broadcast further than the intended audience.

The mistake was the "open internet", where everything that people did was
automatically public. We got to thinking that when we use the "Internet", it
must be public. The Internet is really just a means of conveying data packets
from one machine to another, and there is nothing which says this should be
visible to all.

We've made ourselves not expect privacy, and therefore don't really deserve it.
Back in the 90's, when you messaged on a BBS, is stayed there. Now when you
do, it gets broadcast everywhere. This message will be public, even though you
have to get an account to post it, and the server (BBS) has to sign up to
spread it.

---
■ Synchronet ■ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org

Re: the nothing to hide a

<6209326F.6442.dove-int@cavebbs.homeip.net>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/dovenet/article-flat.php?id=565&group=DOVE-Net.Internet#565

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From: moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS (Moondog)
To: MRO
Subject: Re: the nothing to hide a
Message-ID: <6209326F.6442.dove-int@cavebbs.homeip.net>
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2022 04:31:00 -0500
X-Comment-To: MRO
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <6206E9A7.1102.dove-int@bbses.info>
References: <6206E9A7.1102.dove-int@bbses.info>
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 by: Moondog - Sun, 13 Feb 2022 09:31 UTC

Re: Re: the nothing to hide a
By: MRO to Otto Reverse on Fri Feb 11 2022 04:56 pm

> Re: Re: the nothing to hide a
> By: Otto Reverse to Boraxman on Fri Feb 11 2022 12:35 pm
>
> > Bo> > > yeah what happened to do no evil
> >
> > Bo> > They removed that motto back in 2018 after doing a lot of evil.
> > Bo> Hasn't affected their popularity though. Humans are happy with evil
> > Bo> it is convienient for them.
> >
> > So true. Used to be a time when people wanted things like privacy simply
> > privacy's sake. Remember phone booths? Now people know (even if vaguely)
> > that Google/Apple/Amazon are listening in yet they still buy "smart
> > speakers" etc for the convenience.
>
> our phones and the services we use on desktop computers are most certainly s
> several apps and browsers and cookies are all part of it.
>
> it's too late, we handed it to them. we wont get our privacy back.

There are videos on Youtube that show how to Un-Google an Android phone, and
it's funny to see how less useful they become. Even apps in the app store
collect telemetry, so you have to install less mainstream open source apps
and put up with less polished function or ease of use.

Wifi triangulation still cannot be shut off, so keep that in mind. The
Pine64 linux phone contains dip switches under back case half to physically sh
ut off wifi and cameras and mics and gps

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

the nothing to hide a

<62093C6B.5007.dove-int@capitolcityonline.net>

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From: ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 (Ogg)
To: Boraxman
Subject: the nothing to hide a
Message-ID: <62093C6B.5007.dove-int@capitolcityonline.net>
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2022 05:13:00 -0500
X-Comment-To: Boraxman
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <62084A5E.5205.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
References: <62084A5E.5205.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
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 by: Ogg - Sun, 13 Feb 2022 10:13 UTC

Hello Boraxman!

** On Sunday 13.02.22 - 11:01, Boraxman wrote to Ogg:

>> A lament on privacy from 1972..
>>
>> https://kolico.ca/mpg/TGC1972-privacy.mp4

B> Time to start pushing back, through example.

[...]

B> The mistake was the "open internet", where everything that
B> people did was automatically public. We got to thinking
B> that when we use the "Internet", it must be public. The
B> Internet is really just a means of conveying data packets
B> from one machine to another, and there is nothing which
B> says this should be visible to all.

when I first participated in email, I was amused that it was so
easy to route one's email through any particular server that
would allow it. I believe the technique was using the ! symbol
(bang path notation). The "net" seemed to be open to the finger
command too.

B> We've made ourselves not expect privacy, and therefore
B> don't really deserve it. Back in the 90's, when you
B> messaged on a BBS, is stayed there. Now when you do, it
B> gets broadcast everywhere. This message will be public,
B> even though you have to get an account to post it, and the
B> server (BBS) has to sign up to spread it.

The "narrative" from higher-up was not to expect privacy, but
before then, I don't think most people expected to have the
content of their email and activities on the internet
monitored.

Convenience does seem to trump privacy though. :(

Check out my post here a few months ago:

MID: 723:320/1.9@dovenet f4270dd1

Subject: Privacy is Power: take back your control
Date: Su 05.09.21, 23:46

The book outlines very practical steps that people can adopt.

--

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
� Synchronet � CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Re: the nothing to hide a

<620A1156.1111.dove-int@bbses.info>

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From: mro@VERT/BBSESINF (MRO)
To: Moondog
Subject: Re: the nothing to hide a
Message-ID: <620A1156.1111.dove-int@bbses.info>
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2022 19:22:46 -0600
X-Comment-To: Moondog
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: bbses.info
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <6209326F.6442.dove-int@cavebbs.homeip.net>
References: <6209326F.6442.dove-int@cavebbs.homeip.net>
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 by: MRO - Mon, 14 Feb 2022 01:22 UTC

Re: Re: the nothing to hide a
By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Feb 13 2022 11:31 am

>
> There are videos on Youtube that show how to Un-Google an Android phone, and
> it's funny to see how less useful they become. Even apps in the app store
> collect telemetry, so you have to install less mainstream open source apps
> and put up with less polished function or ease of use.
>
> Wifi triangulation still cannot be shut off, so keep that in mind. The
> Pine64 linux phone contains dip switches under back case half to physically
> sh ut off wifi and cameras and mics and gps

i might try one out, but i just bought a phone a few months ago because i broke my camera lense when having it in my back pocket. i was rolling around on the ground changing a tire. THAT phone wasnt even old
---
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From: boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS (Boraxman)
To: Moondog
Subject: Re: the nothing to hide a
Message-ID: <620A1E62.5209.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2022 13:18:26 +1100
X-Comment-To: Moondog
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: MS & RD BBs
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <6209326F.6442.dove-int@cavebbs.homeip.net>
References: <6209326F.6442.dove-int@cavebbs.homeip.net>
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 by: Boraxman - Mon, 14 Feb 2022 02:18 UTC

Re: Re: the nothing to hide a
By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Feb 13 2022 11:31 am

> There are videos on Youtube that show how to Un-Google an Android phone, and
> it's funny to see how less useful they become. Even apps in the app store
> collect telemetry, so you have to install less mainstream open source apps
> and put up with less polished function or ease of use.
>
> Wifi triangulation still cannot be shut off, so keep that in mind. The
> Pine64 linux phone contains dip switches under back case half to physically
> ut off wifi and cameras and mics and gps

I've seen some of Rob Braxman's videos. I'm OK with reduced functionality. My
current phone is over 10 years old, it still has a keyboard, so I don't need
much. A web browser, phone, SMS and a telnet and/or SSH client will do my
fine. Play some music and I'm set.

---
■ Synchronet ■ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org

the nothing to hide a

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From: boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS (Boraxman)
To: Ogg
Subject: the nothing to hide a
Message-ID: <620A212C.5210.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2022 13:30:20 +1100
X-Comment-To: Ogg
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: MS & RD BBs
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <62093C6B.5007.dove-int@capitolcityonline.net>
References: <62093C6B.5007.dove-int@capitolcityonline.net>
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 by: Boraxman - Mon, 14 Feb 2022 02:30 UTC

Re: the nothing to hide a
By: Ogg to Boraxman on Sun Feb 13 2022 12:13 pm

> when I first participated in email, I was amused that it was so
> easy to route one's email through any particular server that
> would allow it. I believe the technique was using the ! symbol
> (bang path notation). The "net" seemed to be open to the finger
> command too.
>
> The "narrative" from higher-up was not to expect privacy
> before then, I don't think most people expected to have the
> content of their email and activities on the internet
> monitored.
>
> Convenience does seem to trump privacy though. :(
>
> Check out my post here a few months ago:
>
> MID: 723:320/1.9@dovenet f4270dd1
>
> Subject: Privacy is Power: take back your control
> Date: Su 05.09.21, 23:46
>
> The book outlines very practical steps that people can adopt.

They didn't expect it, and when people found out they shrugged their shoulders,
because, well, what can you do? I think we need to change culturally, go back
to valuing discretion. People don't really understand what they are doing
online, and don't consider it an analogue of what happens in your private life.

Take for example meeting people in a pub, you have a conversation. You would
NOT expect the entire world to be able to view that conversation. Maybe others
in the pub will overhear, but it's not searchable. Or you join a Linux Users
Group and you discuss having a BBQ with others at a meeting, again, that would
be just for those in the group, not something that people in Russia or around
your city would find out about. People wouldn't be able to know who went where
and when.

But when it comes to the "internet", we kind of don't apply those standards. A
group is public. Take fsxNet, we were discussing a meet up in Melbourne. This
should be considered something only relevant to those in fsxNet, but you would
(when we plan to), be able to Google search the event, and anyone in the world
would know who went where and when. This doesn't sit right with me, it is very
weird, but we still haven't gotten used to that.

In a way,, I'm advocating a more closed Internet. Web pages, public forums
should remain public, but communication should be, by default, by convention
and politeness, be only for the audience participating.

---
■ Synchronet ■ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org

the nothing to hide a

<620A72C8.20.dove-internet@dibz.synchro.net>

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From: sys64738@VERT/DIBZ (SYS64738)
To: Boraxman
Subject: the nothing to hide a
Message-ID: <620A72C8.20.dove-internet@dibz.synchro.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2022 02:18:32 -0600
X-Comment-To: Boraxman
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Dibz
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <620A212C.5210.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
References: <620A212C.5210.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
X-FTN-PID: Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 master/a2a9dc027 Jan 2 2022 MSC 1928
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 by: SYS64738 - Mon, 14 Feb 2022 08:18 UTC

Re: the nothing to hide a
By: Boraxman to Ogg on Mon Feb 14 2022 20:30:20

> Take for example meeting people in a pub, you have a conversation. You
> would NOT expect the entire world to be able to view that conversation.
> Maybe others in the pub will overhear, but it's not searchable. Or you join
> a Linux Users Group and you discuss having a BBQ with others at a meeting,
> again, that would be just for those in the group, not something that people
> in Russia or around your city would find out about. People wouldn't be able
> to know who went where and when.
>
> But when it comes to the "internet", we kind of don't apply those standards.
> A group is public. Take fsxNet, we were discussing a meet up in Melbourne.
> This should be considered something only relevant to those in fsxNet, but
> you would (when we plan to), be able to Google search the event, and anyone
> in the world would know who went where and when. This doesn't sit right
> with me, it is very weird, but we still haven't gotten used to that.
>
> In a way,, I'm advocating a more closed Internet. Web pages, public forums
> should remain public, but communication should be, by default, by convention
> and politeness, be only for the audience participating.

I can certainly see your point. It's sort of like when my aunt (who is not very tech savvy) thinks she is sending a private message to me in Facebook, but she actually posts that message on her wall for everyone to see. She intended for it to be a private conversation, but now everyone on her friend's list can see it. Also, if her setting on FB are set a certain way, the entire planet can see it just through a simple Google search. If it were a personal matter, then it only gets worse from there.

---
■ Synchronet ■ I got DIBZ on it! (dibz.synchro.net)

Re: the nothing to hide a

<620A85B4.6449.dove-int@cavebbs.homeip.net>

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From: moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS (Moondog)
To: Boraxman
Subject: Re: the nothing to hide a
Message-ID: <620A85B4.6449.dove-int@cavebbs.homeip.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2022 04:39:00 -0500
X-Comment-To: Boraxman
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <620A1E62.5209.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
References: <620A1E62.5209.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
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 by: Moondog - Mon, 14 Feb 2022 09:39 UTC

Re: Re: the nothing to hide a
By: Boraxman to Moondog on Mon Feb 14 2022 08:18 pm

> Re: Re: the nothing to hide a
> By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Feb 13 2022 11:31 am
>
> > There are videos on Youtube that show how to Un-Google an Android phone,
> > it's funny to see how less useful they become. Even apps in the app stor
> > collect telemetry, so you have to install less mainstream open source app
> > and put up with less polished function or ease of use.
> >
> > Wifi triangulation still cannot be shut off, so keep that in mind. The
> > Pine64 linux phone contains dip switches under back case half to physical
> > ut off wifi and cameras and mics and gps
>
> I've seen some of Rob Braxman's videos. I'm OK with reduced functionality.
> current phone is over 10 years old, it still has a keyboard, so I don't need
> much. A web browser, phone, SMS and a telnet and/or SSH client will do my
> fine. Play some music and I'm set.
>
Believe it or not I was happy with my personal phone being a flip phone with
a pre-paid one year plan. If work required me to have a smart phone, the
company would issue me one and i would noit install any non-business apps on
it.

Anyways, 3G is being dropped in my area and has been decreasing all around my
area. I was forced to upgrade. Tracfone had a special going on, and I got a
Samsung A11 for free after the discount.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

the nothing to hide a

<620B6E79.5222.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>

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From: boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS (Boraxman)
To: SYS64738
Subject: the nothing to hide a
Message-ID: <620B6E79.5222.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 13:12:25 +1100
X-Comment-To: SYS64738
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: MS & RD BBs
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <620A72C8.20.dove-internet@dibz.synchro.net>
References: <620A72C8.20.dove-internet@dibz.synchro.net>
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 by: Boraxman - Tue, 15 Feb 2022 02:12 UTC

Re: the nothing to hide a
By: SYS64738 to Boraxman on Mon Feb 14 2022 09:18 am

> I can certainly see your point. It's sort of like when my aunt (who is not
> very tech savvy) thinks she is sending a private message to me in Facebook,
> she actually posts that message on her wall for everyone to see. She intende
> for it to be a private conversation, but now everyone on her friend's list c
> see it. Also, if her setting on FB are set a certain way, the entire planet
> see it just through a simple Google search. If it were a personal matter, t
> it only gets worse from there.

Indeed. But I too have been caught by that, thinking that what was posted on a
BBS, was for the BBS, only to find it comes up in a Google search.

Defaults matter a lot in any software or service design, and I think good
design is to default to a limited audience, and to be upfront and clear what th
e scope of communication is.

Sometimes, like a forum where you can read everything from the start page, it
is obvious, but in other areas, it is not. If you have to sign up, log in to
access, then it is implied that access is for those signed up.

In the early days, the WWW was a public place, you ONLY went online to see
public things, and aside from e-mail, any interaction was meant to be public
(ie, signing a guestbook). But with online services acting as communications
medium between people, we have to break away from that, and have sensible
services where that communication is kept to its 'natural' audience.

---
■ Synchronet ■ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org

Re: the nothing to hide a

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From: boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS (Boraxman)
To: Moondog
Subject: Re: the nothing to hide a
Message-ID: <620B6F19.5223.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 13:15:05 +1100
X-Comment-To: Moondog
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: MS & RD BBs
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <620A85B4.6449.dove-int@cavebbs.homeip.net>
References: <620A85B4.6449.dove-int@cavebbs.homeip.net>
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
 by: Boraxman - Tue, 15 Feb 2022 02:15 UTC

Re: Re: the nothing to hide a
By: Moondog to Boraxman on Mon Feb 14 2022 11:39 am

> Re: Re: the nothing to hide a
> By: Boraxman to Moondog on Mon Feb 14 2022 08:18 pm
>
> > Re: Re: the nothing to hide a
> > By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Feb 13 2022 11:31 am
>
> > > There are videos on Youtube that show how to Un-Google an Android phon
> > > it's funny to see how less useful they become. Even apps in the app s
> > > collect telemetry, so you have to install less mainstream open source
> > > and put up with less polished function or ease of use.
>
> > > Wifi triangulation still cannot be shut off, so keep that in mind. Th
> > > Pine64 linux phone contains dip switches under back case half to physi
> > > ut off wifi and cameras and mics and gps
>
> > I've seen some of Rob Braxman's videos. I'm OK with reduced functionalit
> > current phone is over 10 years old, it still has a keyboard, so I don't n
> > much. A web browser, phone, SMS and a telnet and/or SSH client will do m
> > fine. Play some music and I'm set.
>
> Believe it or not I was happy with my personal phone being a flip phone with
> a pre-paid one year plan. If work required me to have a smart phone, the
> company would issue me one and i would noit install any non-business apps on
> it.
>
> Anyways, 3G is being dropped in my area and has been decreasing all around m
> area. I was forced to upgrade. Tracfone had a special going on, and I got
> Samsung A11 for free after the discount.
>

Work sort of requires me to have one. More specifically, they expect me to run
apps that don't work on mine. I generally can get away with it, but have had
to borrow my wifes to get an program set up or two. Why I would have to give a
Chinese company my phone number and name, so that someone who lives in the
same city (and in some cases, works in the same office) can message me is
beyond me. These people just don't think of how silly this is. I get people
complaining that I'm "uncontactable" despite having a phone, SMS, e-mail, MS
teams, Zoom. But because I don't run this stupid other app which is probably a
tool for Chinese spying and surveillance, it causes problems.

---
■ Synchronet ■ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org

the nothing to hide a

<620BD5E3.5451.dove_dove-int@digitaldistortionbbs.com>

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From: nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST (Nightfox)
To: Boraxman
Subject: the nothing to hide a
Message-ID: <620BD5E3.5451.dove_dove-int@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 01:33:39 -0800
X-Comment-To: Boraxman
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Digital Distortion
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <620B6E79.5222.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
References: <620B6E79.5222.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
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 by: Nightfox - Tue, 15 Feb 2022 09:33 UTC

Re: the nothing to hide a
By: Boraxman to SYS64738 on Tue Feb 15 2022 08:12 pm

Bo> Indeed. But I too have been caught by that, thinking that what was posted
Bo> on a BBS, was for the BBS, only to find it comes up in a Google search.

Yep.. Manye BBSes today have web interfaces where the public forum messages posted on a BBS can be read and searched on the web.

Nightfox

---
■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

Re: the nothing to hide a

<620BD884.6459.dove-int@cavebbs.homeip.net>

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From: moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS (Moondog)
To: Boraxman
Subject: Re: the nothing to hide a
Message-ID: <620BD884.6459.dove-int@cavebbs.homeip.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 04:44:00 -0500
X-Comment-To: Boraxman
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <620B6F19.5223.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
References: <620B6F19.5223.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
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 by: Moondog - Tue, 15 Feb 2022 09:44 UTC

Re: Re: the nothing to hide a
By: Boraxman to Moondog on Tue Feb 15 2022 08:15 pm

> Re: Re: the nothing to hide a
> By: Moondog to Boraxman on Mon Feb 14 2022 11:39 am
>
> > Re: Re: the nothing to hide a
> > By: Boraxman to Moondog on Mon Feb 14 2022 08:18 pm
> >
> > > Re: Re: the nothing to hide a
> > > By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Feb 13 2022 11:31 am
> >
> > > > There are videos on Youtube that show how to Un-Google an Android p
> > > > it's funny to see how less useful they become. Even apps in the ap
> > > > collect telemetry, so you have to install less mainstream open sour
> > > > and put up with less polished function or ease of use.
> >
> > > > Wifi triangulation still cannot be shut off, so keep that in mind.
> > > > Pine64 linux phone contains dip switches under back case half to ph
> > > > ut off wifi and cameras and mics and gps
> >
> > > I've seen some of Rob Braxman's videos. I'm OK with reduced functiona
> > > current phone is over 10 years old, it still has a keyboard, so I don'
> > > much. A web browser, phone, SMS and a telnet and/or SSH client will d
> > > fine. Play some music and I'm set.
> >
> > Believe it or not I was happy with my personal phone being a flip phone w
> > a pre-paid one year plan. If work required me to have a smart phone, the
> > company would issue me one and i would noit install any non-business apps
> > it.
> >
> > Anyways, 3G is being dropped in my area and has been decreasing all aroun
> > area. I was forced to upgrade. Tracfone had a special going on, and I g
> > Samsung A11 for free after the discount.
> >
>
> Work sort of requires me to have one. More specifically, they expect me to
> apps that don't work on mine. I generally can get away with it, but have ha
> to borrow my wifes to get an program set up or two. Why I would have to giv
> Chinese company my phone number and name, so that someone who lives in the
> same city (and in some cases, works in the same office) can message me is
> beyond me. These people just don't think of how silly this is. I get peopl
> complaining that I'm "uncontactable" despite having a phone, SMS, e-mail, MS
> teams, Zoom. But because I don't run this stupid other app which is probabl
> tool for Chinese spying and surveillance, it causes problems.
>

I agree. Companies I have done work for also have a layer of management on
the phone that allows for them to push apps tothe phone, and even wipe it
remotely. I wouldn't want to get all comfy using my company cell for
personal use, then lose everything due to a staff reduction.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

the nothing to hide a

<620C4343.1131.dove-int@bbses.info>

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From: mro@VERT/BBSESINF (MRO)
To: Nightfox
Subject: the nothing to hide a
Message-ID: <620C4343.1131.dove-int@bbses.info>
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 11:20:19 -0600
X-Comment-To: Nightfox
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: bbses.info
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <620BD5E3.5451.dove_dove-int@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
References: <620BD5E3.5451.dove_dove-int@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
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 by: MRO - Tue, 15 Feb 2022 17:20 UTC

Re: the nothing to hide a
By: Nightfox to Boraxman on Tue Feb 15 2022 08:33 am

> Re: the nothing to hide a
> By: Boraxman to SYS64738 on Tue Feb 15 2022 08:12 pm
>
> Bo> Indeed. But I too have been caught by that, thinking that what was
> Bo> posted on a BBS, was for the BBS, only to find it comes up in a Google
> Bo> search.
>
> Yep.. Manye BBSes today have web interfaces where the public forum messages
> posted on a BBS can be read and searched on the web.
>
> Nightfox

that's why guest access to that shit should be turned off.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

the nothing to hide a

<620C6A04.701.dove-internet@bbs.radiomentor.org>

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From: andre@VERT/RDOMENTR (Andre)
To: MRO
Subject: the nothing to hide a
Message-ID: <620C6A04.701.dove-internet@bbs.radiomentor.org>
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 14:05:40 -0600
X-Comment-To: MRO
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Radio Mentor BBS
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <620C4343.1131.dove-int@bbses.info>
References: <620C4343.1131.dove-int@bbses.info>
X-FTN-PID: Synchronet 3.19c-Linux master/57fec7596 Feb 13 2022 GCC 9.3.0
X-FTN-CHRS: CP437 2
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 by: Andre - Tue, 15 Feb 2022 20:05 UTC

Re: the nothing to hide a
By: MRO to Nightfox on Tue Feb 15 2022 06:20 pm

MR> that's why guest access to that shit should be turned off.

And miss out on all the insightful gems on FTN networks?

- Andre

---
■ Synchronet ■ Radio Mentor BBS - bbs.radiomentor.org

the nothing to hide a

<620C851D.1133.dove-int@bbses.info>

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From: mro@VERT/BBSESINF (MRO)
To: Andre
Subject: the nothing to hide a
Message-ID: <620C851D.1133.dove-int@bbses.info>
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 16:01:17 -0600
X-Comment-To: Andre
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: bbses.info
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <620C6A04.701.dove-internet@bbs.radiomentor.org>
References: <620C6A04.701.dove-internet@bbs.radiomentor.org>
X-FTN-PID: Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 Sep 20 2020 MSC 1927
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 by: MRO - Tue, 15 Feb 2022 22:01 UTC

Re: the nothing to hide a
By: Andre to MRO on Tue Feb 15 2022 09:05 pm

> Re: the nothing to hide a
> By: MRO to Nightfox on Tue Feb 15 2022 06:20 pm
>
> MR> that's why guest access to that shit should be turned off.
>
> And miss out on all the insightful gems on FTN networks?
>
>
> - Andre

my twitlisting and ip blocking is so fortified that i only see 3-4 people on dovenet.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: the nothing to hide a

<620CA884.5232.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>

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From: boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS (Boraxman)
To: Moondog
Subject: Re: the nothing to hide a
Message-ID: <620CA884.5232.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2022 11:32:20 +1100
X-Comment-To: Moondog
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: MS & RD BBs
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <620BD884.6459.dove-int@cavebbs.homeip.net>
References: <620BD884.6459.dove-int@cavebbs.homeip.net>
X-FTN-PID: Synchronet 3.17c-Win32 Feb 22 2020 MSC 1924
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 by: Boraxman - Wed, 16 Feb 2022 00:32 UTC

Re: Re: the nothing to hide a
By: Moondog to Boraxman on Tue Feb 15 2022 11:44 am

> > Work sort of requires me to have one. More specifically, they expect me
> > apps that don't work on mine. I generally can get away with it, but have
> > to borrow my wifes to get an program set up or two. Why I would have to
> > Chinese company my phone number and name, so that someone who lives in t
> > same city (and in some cases, works in the same office) can message me is
> > beyond me. These people just don't think of how silly this is. I get pe
> > complaining that I'm "uncontactable" despite having a phone, SMS, e-mail,
> > teams, Zoom. But because I don't run this stupid other app which is prob
> > tool for Chinese spying and surveillance, it causes problems.
>
>
> I agree. Companies I have done work for also have a layer of management on
> the phone that allows for them to push apps tothe phone, and even wipe it
> remotely. I wouldn't want to get all comfy using my company cell for
> personal use, then lose everything due to a staff reduction.

I don't care if it is a work phone, I'd want them to give me one. They want me
to install this on my own personal phone.

---
■ Synchronet ■ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org

the nothing to hide a

<620CA8F6.5233.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>

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From: boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS (Boraxman)
To: MRO
Subject: the nothing to hide a
Message-ID: <620CA8F6.5233.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2022 11:34:14 +1100
X-Comment-To: MRO
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: MS & RD BBs
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <620C4343.1131.dove-int@bbses.info>
References: <620C4343.1131.dove-int@bbses.info>
X-FTN-PID: Synchronet 3.17c-Win32 Feb 22 2020 MSC 1924
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 by: Boraxman - Wed, 16 Feb 2022 00:34 UTC

Re: the nothing to hide a
By: MRO to Nightfox on Tue Feb 15 2022 06:20 pm

> Re: the nothing to hide a
> By: Nightfox to Boraxman on Tue Feb 15 2022 08:33 am
>
> > Re: the nothing to hide a
> > By: Boraxman to SYS64738 on Tue Feb 15 2022 08:12 pm
>
> > Bo> Indeed. But I too have been caught by that, thinking that what was
> > Bo> posted on a BBS, was for the BBS, only to find it comes up in a Goog
> > Bo> search.
>
> > Yep.. Manye BBSes today have web interfaces where the public forum messa
> > posted on a BBS can be read and searched on the web.
>
> > Nightfox
>
> that's why guest access to that shit should be turned off.

Agreed. Guest access when you had to dial in made sense, but now, it opens
yourself up for abuse.

---
■ Synchronet ■ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org

the nothing to hide a

<620CE4E7.1136.dove-int@bbses.info>

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From: mro@VERT/BBSESINF (MRO)
To: Boraxman
Subject: the nothing to hide a
Message-ID: <620CE4E7.1136.dove-int@bbses.info>
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 22:49:59 -0600
X-Comment-To: Boraxman
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: bbses.info
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <620CA8F6.5233.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
References: <620CA8F6.5233.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
X-FTN-PID: Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 Sep 20 2020 MSC 1927
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 by: MRO - Wed, 16 Feb 2022 04:49 UTC

Re: the nothing to hide a
By: Boraxman to MRO on Wed Feb 16 2022 06:34 pm

>
> > that's why guest access to that shit should be turned off.
>
> Agreed. Guest access when you had to dial in made sense, but now, it opens
> yourself up for abuse.

i would never allow guest access. sign up real quick and look around and dont call back. you'll be auto deleted in x amount of days.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: the nothing to hide a

<620DC433.6468.dove-int@cavebbs.homeip.net>

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From: moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS (Moondog)
To: Boraxman
Subject: Re: the nothing to hide a
Message-ID: <620DC433.6468.dove-int@cavebbs.homeip.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2022 15:42:00 -0500
X-Comment-To: Boraxman
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <620CA884.5232.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
References: <620CA884.5232.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
X-FTN-PID: Synchronet 3.19c-Linux master/c726b6713 Feb 16 2022 GCC 8.3.0
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 by: Moondog - Wed, 16 Feb 2022 20:42 UTC

Re: Re: the nothing to hide a
By: Boraxman to Moondog on Wed Feb 16 2022 06:32 pm

> Re: Re: the nothing to hide a
> By: Moondog to Boraxman on Tue Feb 15 2022 11:44 am
>
> > > Work sort of requires me to have one. More specifically, they expect
> > > apps that don't work on mine. I generally can get away with it, but h
> > > to borrow my wifes to get an program set up or two. Why I would have
> > > Chinese company my phone number and name, so that someone who lives i
> > > same city (and in some cases, works in the same office) can message me
> > > beyond me. These people just don't think of how silly this is. I get
> > > complaining that I'm "uncontactable" despite having a phone, SMS, e-ma
> > > teams, Zoom. But because I don't run this stupid other app which is p
> > > tool for Chinese spying and surveillance, it causes problems.
> >
> >
> > I agree. Companies I have done work for also have a layer of management
> > the phone that allows for them to push apps tothe phone, and even wipe it
> > remotely. I wouldn't want to get all comfy using my company cell for
> > personal use, then lose everything due to a staff reduction.
>
> I don't care if it is a work phone, I'd want them to give me one. They want
> to install this on my own personal phone.
>
My personal affairs are mine, not the company's. Some companies have a "use
your own device" option for those who have better equipment that they are
issued, but I don't care for company spying and the ability to wipe my phone
with no notice.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: the nothing to hide a

<620E600C.5041.dove.dove-int@realitycheckbbs.org>

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From: poindexter.fortran@VERT/REALITY (poindexter FORTRAN)
To: Moondog
Subject: Re: the nothing to hide a
Message-ID: <620E600C.5041.dove.dove-int@realitycheckbbs.org>
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 23:51:00 -0800
X-Comment-To: Moondog
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: realitycheckBBS
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <620BD884.6459.dove-int@cavebbs.homeip.net>
References: <620BD884.6459.dove-int@cavebbs.homeip.net>
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 by: poindexter FORTRAN - Wed, 16 Feb 2022 07:51 UTC

-=> Moondog wrote to Boraxman <=-

Mo> I agree. Companies I have done work for also have a layer of
Mo> management on the phone that allows for them to push apps tothe phone,
Mo> and even wipe it remotely. I wouldn't want to get all comfy using my
Mo> company cell for personal use, then lose everything due to a staff
Mo> reduction.

I had whitelisted my old phone for ActiveSync, and when I upgraded, needed
to install Microsoft Entune. It's great if you have work apps that aren't on
the play store, but for a company that doesn't reimburse for BYOD, it's a
little heavy-handed; if you're going to install your infrastructure on my
phone to give me the "privelige" of keeping abreast of workflow and
potentially monitor my activity, you should at least pitch in for my cell
phone plan.

.... SURELY NOT EVERYONE WAS KUNG FU FIGHTING
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
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