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dovenet / Internet / tailscale ..impressive

SubjectAuthor
* tailscale ..impressiveOgg
+* tailscale ..impressivePhigan
|+* tailscale ..impressiveDigital Man
||`* tailscale ..impressivePhigan
|| +* tailscale ..impressiveDigital Man
|| |`* tailscale ..impressivePhigan
|| | `* tailscale ..impressivedeon
|| |  `- tailscale ..impressivePhigan
|| `* tailscale ..impressivedeon
||  `- tailscale ..impressivePhigan
|`* tailscale ..impressiveOgg
| `- tailscale ..impressivePhigan
+- tailscale ..impressiveMRO
`- tailscale ..impressiveTracker1

1
tailscale ..impressive

<64792ED9.5449.dove-int@capitolcityonline.net>

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From: ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 (Ogg)
To: All
Subject: tailscale ..impressive
Message-ID: <64792ED9.5449.dove-int@capitolcityonline.net>
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2023 19:50:00 -0400
X-Comment-To: All
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
X-FTN-AREA: DOVE-INTERNET
X-FTN-PID: OpenXP/5.0.57 (Win32)
X-FTN-MSGID: 723:320/1.9@dovenet 09054211
X-FTN-CHRS: ASCII 1
X-FTN-SEEN-BY: 320/1
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
 by: Ogg - Thu, 1 Jun 2023 23:50 UTC

Recently, I got the headsup on tailscale. It's a pretty nifty
almost-zero-config personal VPN for the purposes of
establishing secure and encrypted tunnels over your own
machines as a custom network.

Prior to tailscale, I was using AnyDesk cuz it just worked and
did not need any port forwarding pre-considerations. (My router
has a broken port-forwarding feature - the settings didn't
stick - but AnyDesk overcame that.

At some point AnyDesk deemed my usage commercial primarily
because I was using it too regularly. :(

Then there was several months of time that I wasn't using
anything at all and lived without the need to reach my remote
machines for transferring files or observing processes.

But tailscale is looking like a great solution!

I can launch a VNC connection from my remote pc to my home pc.

A VNC connection from my home pc to my remote pc is having an
issue but I can work around it by accessing the Filezilla-
server on the remote to transfer files to and from home.

I am operting Win7 systems on both remote and home pc.

Tailscale is availble for Win, iOS, MacOS, Android, Linux

See https://tailscale.com/

For a simple home "network" of machines, the free offering
could be all that one needs.

Tailscale takes care of the networking authenticated machines.
After that, you can reach any service that any machine supports
whether it is VNC, Remote Desktop, SSH, FTP, etc.. and you
have a fully secure, and encrypted personal VPN.

--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.57
* Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
� Synchronet � CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

tailscale ..impressive

<6479E729.312.dove-internet@tacopronto.bbs.io>

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From: phigan@VERT/TACOPRON (Phigan)
To: Ogg
Subject: tailscale ..impressive
Message-ID: <6479E729.312.dove-internet@tacopronto.bbs.io>
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2023 05:57:13 -0700
X-Comment-To: Ogg
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Taco Pronto
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <64792ED9.5449.dove-int@capitolcityonline.net>
References: <64792ED9.5449.dove-int@capitolcityonline.net>
X-FTN-PID: Synchronet 3.19c-Linux / Jun 26 2022 GCC 9.4.0
X-FTN-REPLY: 723:320/1.9@dovenet 09054211
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 by: Phigan - Fri, 2 Jun 2023 12:57 UTC

Re: tailscale ..impressive
By: Ogg to All on Thu Jun 01 2023 07:50 pm

> Recently, I got the headsup on tailscale. It's a pretty nifty
> almost-zero-config personal VPN for the purposes of

Sounds pretty cool, but any time you're involving another party into the mix, there's always a chance they can evesdrop on you. Sure, they _say_ end to end encryption etc etc, but there's nothing stopping them from having a master key to all that encryption.

Also, I would just forward one port, for SSH, to an internal host. Then, use SSH tunneling to connect to anything else from there. For Windows, RDP works better than VNC. File transfers can be done via ssh/scp, too.

In the end, of course just use what is most comfortable and works for you. I'm just overly paranoid so using "self-hosted" things is my "comfort zone".

---
■ Synchronet ■ TIRED of waiting 2 hours for a taco? GO TO TACOPRONTO.bbs.io

tailscale ..impressive

<6479F670.1492.dove-int@bbses.info>

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From: mro@VERT/BBSESINF (MRO)
To: Ogg
Subject: tailscale ..impressive
Message-ID: <6479F670.1492.dove-int@bbses.info>
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2023 09:02:24 -0500
X-Comment-To: Ogg
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: bbses.info
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <64792ED9.5449.dove-int@capitolcityonline.net>
References: <64792ED9.5449.dove-int@capitolcityonline.net>
X-FTN-PID: Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 master/a2a9dc027 Jan 2 2022 MSC 1928
X-FTN-REPLY: 723:320/1.9@dovenet 09054211
X-FTN-CHRS: CP437 2
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=IBM437
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
 by: MRO - Fri, 2 Jun 2023 14:02 UTC

Re: tailscale ..impressive
By: Ogg to All on Thu Jun 01 2023 07:50 pm

> Prior to tailscale, I was using AnyDesk cuz it just worked and
> did not need any port forwarding pre-considerations. (My router
> has a broken port-forwarding feature - the settings didn't
> stick - but AnyDesk overcame that.
>

why dont you just buy a new router?
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

tailscale ..impressive

<647A96A0.8790.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>

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From: digital.man@VERT (Digital Man)
To: Phigan
Subject: tailscale ..impressive
Message-ID: <647A96A0.8790.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2023 18:25:52 -0700
X-Comment-To: Phigan
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Vertrauen
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <6479E729.312.dove-internet@tacopronto.bbs.io>
References: <6479E729.312.dove-internet@tacopronto.bbs.io>
X-FTN-PID: Synchronet 3.20a-Linux master/c54591d6e Jun 1 2023 GCC 12.2.0
X-FTN-CHRS: CP437 2
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ExportedFrom: VERT dove-int 8790
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=IBM437
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
 by: Digital Man - Sat, 3 Jun 2023 01:25 UTC

Re: tailscale ..impressive
By: Phigan to Ogg on Fri Jun 02 2023 05:57 am

> Re: tailscale ..impressive
> By: Ogg to All on Thu Jun 01 2023 07:50 pm
>
> > Recently, I got the headsup on tailscale. It's a pretty nifty
> > almost-zero-config personal VPN for the purposes of
>
> Sounds pretty cool, but any time you're involving another party into the
> mix, there's always a chance they can evesdrop on you. Sure, they _say_ end
> to end encryption etc etc, but there's nothing stopping them from having a
> master key to all that encryption.

The whole concept of "end to end encryption" is that there's no means by which a man in the middle can snoop or spoof, no matter who they are.
--
digital man (rob)

This Is Spinal Tap quote #8:
Derek Smalls: Making a big thing out of it would have been a good idea.
Norco, CA WX: 70.5°F, 62.0% humidity, 5 mph SE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
---
■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net

tailscale ..impressive

<647A93C0.5452.dove-int@capitolcityonline.net>

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From: ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 (Ogg)
To: Phigan
Subject: tailscale ..impressive
Message-ID: <647A93C0.5452.dove-int@capitolcityonline.net>
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2023 19:51:00 -0400
X-Comment-To: Phigan
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <6479E729.312.dove-internet@tacopronto.bbs.io>
References: <6479E729.312.dove-internet@tacopronto.bbs.io>
X-FTN-AREA: DOVE-INTERNET
X-FTN-PID: OpenXP/5.0.57 (Win32)
X-FTN-MSGID: 723:320/1.9@dovenet 090d501a
X-FTN-REPLY: 5450.dove-int@723:320/1 28df610a
X-FTN-CHRS: CP437 2
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 by: Ogg - Fri, 2 Jun 2023 23:51 UTC

Hello Phigan!

** On Friday 02.06.23 - 05:57, Phigan wrote to Ogg:

>> Recently, I got the headsup on tailscale. It's a pretty nifty
>> almost-zero-config personal VPN for the purposes of

P> Sounds pretty cool, but any time you're involving another party into the
P> mix, there's always a chance they can evesdrop on you. Sure, they _say_
P> end to end encryption etc etc, but there's nothing stopping them from
P> having a master key to all that encryption.

A friend mine responds to that:

"yeah... but if you look at the sources or use your own
headscale server (headscale is completely compatible,
apparently) [the eavesdrop] concerns are practically moot. Yes,
they could collect some tracking info, but likely far less
useful info than what google or microsoft gleen from bing or
google maps or whatever."

"doing the investigation has convinced me that the threat of
interception by tailscale.com is relatively small and
manageable."

"They are after all trying to make money from services and
features, and do not appear to be a fundamentally evil
organization that is out to get all your personal info and
monetize you like google or microsoft òr facebook."

P> ...For Windows, RDP works better than VNC. File transfers
P> can be done via ssh/scp, too.

I have been disappointed in RDP in the past. I've had many
dropped or "stuck" connections. VNC (via TightVNC) has served
me well.

P> In the end, of course just use what is most comfortable and
P> works for you. I'm just overly paranoid so using "self-
P> hosted" things is my "comfort zone".

Then take a look at headscale. https://headscale.net/

--- OpenXP 5.0.57
* Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

tailscale ..impressive

<647CC3B4.317.dove-internet@tacopronto.bbs.io>

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From: phigan@VERT/TACOPRON (Phigan)
To: Digital Man
Subject: tailscale ..impressive
Message-ID: <647CC3B4.317.dove-internet@tacopronto.bbs.io>
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2023 10:02:44 -0700
X-Comment-To: Digital Man
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Taco Pronto
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <647A96A0.8790.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>
References: <647A96A0.8790.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>
X-FTN-PID: Synchronet 3.19c-Linux / Jun 26 2022 GCC 9.4.0
X-FTN-CHRS: CP437 2
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 by: Phigan - Sun, 4 Jun 2023 17:02 UTC

Re: tailscale ..impressive
By: Digital Man to Phigan on Fri Jun 02 2023 06:25 pm

> The whole concept of "end to end encryption" is that there's no means by
> which a man in the middle can snoop or spoof, no matter who they are.

Sure, that's the concept. You have to have the public/private keys on each side to be able to read the encrypted data. You're not in control of the generation of those public and private key pairs, however. It is 100% possible for the system generating those key pairs to have a "master" set of keys which can read that encrypted data no matter how many times you change your personal public/private keys. Your data is still encrypted "end to end" :).

---
■ Synchronet ■ TIRED of waiting 2 hours for a taco? GO TO TACOPRONTO.bbs.io

tailscale ..impressive

<647CC70F.318.dove-internet@tacopronto.bbs.io>

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From: phigan@VERT/TACOPRON (Phigan)
To: Ogg
Subject: tailscale ..impressive
Message-ID: <647CC70F.318.dove-internet@tacopronto.bbs.io>
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2023 10:17:03 -0700
X-Comment-To: Ogg
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Taco Pronto
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <647A93C0.5452.dove-int@capitolcityonline.net>
References: <647A93C0.5452.dove-int@capitolcityonline.net>
X-FTN-PID: Synchronet 3.19c-Linux / Jun 26 2022 GCC 9.4.0
X-FTN-REPLY: 723:320/1.9@dovenet 090d501a
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 by: Phigan - Sun, 4 Jun 2023 17:17 UTC

Re: tailscale ..impressive
By: Ogg to Phigan on Fri Jun 02 2023 07:51 pm

> Then take a look at headscale. https://headscale.net/

Looks right up my alley. I'll try it out soon!

---
■ Synchronet ■ TIRED of waiting 2 hours for a taco? GO TO TACOPRONTO.bbs.io

tailscale ..impressive

<647CF699.8795.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>

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From: digital.man@VERT (Digital Man)
To: Phigan
Subject: tailscale ..impressive
Message-ID: <647CF699.8795.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2023 13:39:53 -0700
X-Comment-To: Phigan
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Vertrauen
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <647CC3B4.317.dove-internet@tacopronto.bbs.io>
References: <647CC3B4.317.dove-internet@tacopronto.bbs.io>
X-FTN-PID: Synchronet 3.20a-Linux master/c926f87db Jun 4 2023 GCC 12.2.0
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ExportedFrom: VERT dove-int 8795
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=IBM437
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
 by: Digital Man - Sun, 4 Jun 2023 20:39 UTC

Re: tailscale ..impressive
By: Phigan to Digital Man on Sun Jun 04 2023 10:02 am

> Re: tailscale ..impressive
> By: Digital Man to Phigan on Fri Jun 02 2023 06:25 pm
>
> > The whole concept of "end to end encryption" is that there's no means by
> > which a man in the middle can snoop or spoof, no matter who they are.
>
> Sure, that's the concept. You have to have the public/private keys on each
> side to be able to read the encrypted data. You're not in control of the
> generation of those public and private key pairs, however. It is 100%
> possible for the system generating those key pairs to have a "master" set of
> keys which can read that encrypted data no matter how many times you change
> your personal public/private keys. Your data is still encrypted "end to end"
> :).

https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/119551/are-there-master-keys-that-can-be-used-to-generate-valid-ssl-keys
--
digital man (rob)

Sling Blade quote #7:
Karl: I don't reckon the Good Lord would send anybody like you to Hades.
Norco, CA WX: 71.1°F, 65.0% humidity, 8 mph SSE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
---
■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net

tailscale ..impressive

<647D1A44.3406.dove-internet@bbs.dege.au>

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From: deon@VERT/ALTERANT (deon)
To: Phigan
Subject: tailscale ..impressive
Message-ID: <647D1A44.3406.dove-internet@bbs.dege.au>
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2023 09:12:04 +1000
X-Comment-To: Phigan
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Alterant
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <647CC3B4.317.dove-internet@tacopronto.bbs.io>
References: <647CC3B4.317.dove-internet@tacopronto.bbs.io>
X-FTN-PID: Synchronet 3.20a-Linux master/29204587e May 30 2023 GCC 10.2.1
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 by: deon - Sun, 4 Jun 2023 23:12 UTC

Re: tailscale ..impressive
By: Phigan to Digital Man on Sun Jun 04 2023 10:02 am

> Sure, that's the concept. You have to have the public/private keys on each
> side to be able to read the encrypted data. You're not in control of the
> generation of those public and private key pairs, however. It is 100%
> possible for the system generating those key pairs to have a "master" set of
> keys which can read that encrypted data no matter how many times you change
> your personal public/private keys. Your data is still encrypted "end to end"
> :).

I've never heard of PKI, where a master key can decrypt a subordinate's key data, where data was encrypted with the subordinate's public key.

Any references, or examples/whitepapers, that you can share?

....δεσ∩

---
■ Synchronet ■ AnsiTEX bringing back videotex but with ANSI

tailscale ..impressive

<647D20E0.320.dove-internet@tacopronto.bbs.io>

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From: phigan@VERT/TACOPRON (Phigan)
To: Digital Man
Subject: tailscale ..impressive
Message-ID: <647D20E0.320.dove-internet@tacopronto.bbs.io>
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2023 16:40:16 -0700
X-Comment-To: Digital Man
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Taco Pronto
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <647CF699.8795.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>
References: <647CF699.8795.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>
X-FTN-PID: Synchronet 3.19c-Linux / Jun 26 2022 GCC 9.4.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
 by: Phigan - Sun, 4 Jun 2023 23:40 UTC

Re: tailscale ..impressive
By: Digital Man to Phigan on Sun Jun 04 2023 01:39 pm

> https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/119551/are-there-master-keys-th
> at-can-be-used-to-generate-valid-ssl-keys

That link doesn't really contradict anything I'm saying :)

For a certificate or key pair to be "valid" you just have to trust the authority that signed it/them. We call SSL certificates used for websites and things as "valid" because they have been signed by one of the certificate authorities that we all have stored in our operating systems and browsers, the ones we trust. It's technically possible for any of them to have master keys to the certificates they generate and sign, but as the response in the link says, it's highly unlikely they would go using those willy nilly.

Other applications, especially those where the client and the server are proprietary, don't have to follow any rules about trusted authorities. The same company could write the client and server, generate and sign the certificates, and promise you end to end encryption. You have no guarantee that there isn't a master key. Even when the client and server are open source, the certificate signing stuff often isn't.

---
■ Synchronet ■ TIRED of waiting 2 hours for a taco? GO TO TACOPRONTO.bbs.io

tailscale ..impressive

<647D40C7.3408.dove-internet@bbs.dege.au>

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From: deon@VERT/ALTERANT (deon)
To: Phigan
Subject: tailscale ..impressive
Message-ID: <647D40C7.3408.dove-internet@bbs.dege.au>
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2023 11:56:23 +1000
X-Comment-To: Phigan
Path: rocksolidbbs.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Alterant
Newsgroups: DOVE-Net.Internet
In-Reply-To: <647D20E0.320.dove-internet@tacopronto.bbs.io>
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X-FTN-PID: Synchronet 3.20a-Linux master/29204587e May 30 2023 GCC 10.2.1
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 by: deon - Mon, 5 Jun 2023 01:56 UTC

Re: tailscale ..impressive
By: Phigan to Digital Man on Sun Jun 04 2023 04:40 pm

> > https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/119551/are-there-master-keys
> > -th at-can-be-used-to-generate-valid-ssl-keys
>
> That link doesn't really contradict anything I'm saying :)
>
> For a certificate or key pair to be "valid" you just have to trust the
> authority that signed it/them. We call SSL certificates used for websites
> and things as "valid" because they have been signed by one of the
> certificate authorities that we all have stored in our operating systems and
> browsers, the ones we trust. It's technically possible for any of them to
> have master keys to the certificates they generate and sign, but as the
> response in the link says, it's highly unlikely they would go using those
> willy nilly.

You've lost me on the point I thought you were making.

The topic was "end to end encryption" - and I thought you made the comment that a "master key" is also available.

This implies that you are saying that a master key can decrypt data that is being intended for an end user, that is encrypted with their public key.

Or are you saying something else?

....δεσ∩

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tailscale ..impressive

<647E258A.324.dove-internet@tacopronto.bbs.io>

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From: phigan@VERT/TACOPRON (Phigan)
To: deon
Subject: tailscale ..impressive
Message-ID: <647E258A.324.dove-internet@tacopronto.bbs.io>
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2023 11:12:26 -0700
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 by: Phigan - Mon, 5 Jun 2023 18:12 UTC

Re: tailscale ..impressive
By: deon to Phigan on Mon Jun 05 2023 09:12 am

> I've never heard of PKI, where a master key can decrypt a subordinate's key
> data, where data was encrypted with the subordinate's public key.

It's more a hierarchy kind of thing. The sub keys signed by the master key could be stored with the data they're signing. Or they could just be sent encrypted to whoever has the master. You get the sub keys then you get the data. No, I don't have any white papers :). I can guess this sort of thing isn't going to be well documented all over the place.

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tailscale ..impressive

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From: phigan@VERT/TACOPRON (Phigan)
To: deon
Subject: tailscale ..impressive
Message-ID: <647E2668.325.dove-internet@tacopronto.bbs.io>
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2023 11:16:08 -0700
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 by: Phigan - Mon, 5 Jun 2023 18:16 UTC

Re: tailscale ..impressive
By: deon to Phigan on Mon Jun 05 2023 11:56 am

> This implies that you are saying that a master key can decrypt data that is
> being intended for an end user, that is encrypted with their public key.

That is what I'm saying. Whether it can happen directly or indirectly is up to the implementation, but that is the end result.

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tailscale ..impressive

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From: tracker1@VERT/TRN (Tracker1)
To: Ogg
Subject: tailscale ..impressive
Message-ID: <648C440B.3432.dove-internet@roughneckbbs.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2023 11:14:19 +0000
X-Comment-To: Ogg
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 by: Tracker1 - Fri, 16 Jun 2023 11:14 UTC

Re: tailscale ..impressive
By: Ogg to All on Thu Jun 01 2023 19:50:00

Og> Recently, I got the headsup on tailscale. It's a pretty nifty
Og> almost-zero-config personal VPN for the purposes of
Og> establishing secure and encrypted tunnels over your own
Og> machines as a custom network.

Yeah, tailscale looks nifty AF, have though about getting it running on my hosted server(s). Right now, I tunnel through SSH the client I use for the one windows vm rdp (Remmina) has built in support for running through an SSH tunnel.

For home, I've been using Wireguard for my phone and laptop when I'm travelling, which isn't much.


--
Michael J. Ryan
+o roughneckbbs.com
tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

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1
server_pubkey.txt

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