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Re: thirty years ago

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 1 Day 7 Hours ago by: Andrei Z.

Dirk Hohndel Reflects On What Made Linux So Successful https://www.tfir.io/dirk-hohndel-reflects-on-what-made-linux-so-successful/

Re: Linux Executables Deployed as Stealth Windows Loaders

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 1 Day 19 Hours ago by: Andrei Z.

Researchers have recorded a new way to compromise computers running Windows that uses malicious Linux binary files created for Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL).

Re: Linux Executables Deployed as Stealth Windows Loaders

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 1 Day 19 Hours ago by: David W. Hodgins

It's strictly the windows subsystem for linux. As usual, m$ puts out something that sort of works on the market, with no concern for security. Regards, Dave Hodgins

Re: Linux Executables Deployed as Stealth Windows Loaders

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 1 Day 20 Hours ago by: SolutionsViaDIY

For those of us who are not techies, what does this mean, exactly? I read the article but not sure I understand completely. Does it mean we think we're installing Linux but we're getting nasty Windows, instead??? Unless it's specific

Linux Executables Deployed as Stealth Windows Loaders

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 1 Day 22 Hours ago by: Andrei Z.

No Longer Just Theory: Black Lotus Labs Uncovers Linux Executables Deployed as Stealth Windows Loaders https://blog.lumen.com/no-longer-just-theory-black-lotus-labs-uncovers-linux-executables-deployed-as-stealth-windows-loaders/

Re: thirty years ago

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 1 Day 22 Hours ago by: Andrei Z.

From Linus Torvalds <> Date Fri, 17 Sep 2021 13:02:58 -0700 Subject 30 years since the Linux 0.01 release https://lkml.org/lkml/2021/9/17/1018 "This is just a random note to let people know that today is actually one of the core 30-year

Re: TestDisk,PhotoRec , or a Data Recovery Service First?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 3 Days 3 Hours ago by: Carlos E. R.

Right, but it would not be bigger than 15GB ;-)

Re: TestDisk,PhotoRec , or a Data Recovery Service First?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 3 Days 5 Hours ago by: Pascal Hambourg

No. I, as most people, usually write images on USB sticks bigger than the image size.

Re: TestDisk,PhotoRec , or a Data Recovery Service First?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 3 Days 12 Hours ago by: Carlos E. R.

It is obvious, no?

Re: TestDisk,PhotoRec , or a Data Recovery Service First?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 3 Days 15 Hours ago by: Pascal Hambourg

Again, the USB stick size is irrelevant. Where did you see that the image size was 15 GB ?

Re: Obit - Sir Clive Sinclair, Computing Pioneer

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 3 Days 19 Hours ago by: Carlos E. R.

Requiescat in pace. He deserves all the honours. The ZX Spectrum was the first computer I could touch and write programs on it, although in my case it was borrowed, not owned. Previous to that I wrote programs on a Ti 57 and a TI-58C p

Re: Obit - Sir Clive Sinclair, Computing Pioneer

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 3 Days 21 Hours ago by: AnonymousCoward

I had a ZX Spectrum 128k + 3 It was my introduction to computers, though i only used it to play games :-D It's floppy disks were much cooler than the 3'1/2 ones. They have two sides! https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6

Obit - Sir Clive Sinclair, Computing Pioneer

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 3 Days 23 Hours ago by: SevenOverSix

It is reported that Sir Clive Sinclair has died at age 81. Sinclair is best known for his "ZX" (I think that's "Zed-X" for Brits) affordable computers. The rather crude ZX-80 (which could also be bought cheaper as a kit) was followed by th

Re: TestDisk,PhotoRec , or a Data Recovery Service First?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 4 Days ago by: Carlos E. R.

Yep. I think he said it was FAT. If that is so, the FAT table would be gone, and then the master directory structure. Possibly some subdirectories tables would remain. Even in that case, file carving tools manage good results. Not the

Re: TestDisk,PhotoRec , or a Data Recovery Service First?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 4 Days ago by: The Natural Philosop

Problem is that the first thing to get written would be the directory tracks there are other block metadata areas in ext2/4 but thats the main one Data may still be there, but no reason to suppose its more than a random collection of se

Re: TestDisk,PhotoRec , or a Data Recovery Service First?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 4 Days 2 Hours ago by: Carlos E. R.

Maybe you missed that he overwrote his good disk with an image for an USB stick of 15 GB. It is not the destination drive, it is the max corruption size. Knowing the actual size of the source image would be better. If it was a partial wr

Re: TestDisk,PhotoRec , or a Data Recovery Service First?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 4 Days 7 Hours ago by: Pascal Hambourg

(...) Why 15 GB ? The intended destination drive size is irrelevant. What matters is the written image size or the write speed (45 MB/s max if USB 2, more if USB 3) * write time, whichever is higher.

Re: TestDisk,PhotoRec , or a Data Recovery Service First?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 4 Days 12 Hours ago by: Carlos E. R.

Depends on what you have available to write the copy to. For example, if you have a 4TB disk, create an image copy. Example. Corrupted disk is /dev/sdX Empty 4 TB disk is /dev/sdY, and you mount it on /workspace You would do: dd if

Re: TestDisk,PhotoRec , or a Data Recovery Service First?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 4 Days 17 Hours ago by: Keith Scarlett

Thank-you for the reply. So the memory stick was 15GB (the intended write target) but the external HDD I accidentally wrote the disk image to was 500GB. Using the dd command should I be trying to clone the drive or write an image of that

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 5 Days 5 Hours ago by: Charlie Gibbs

I've had good results with nVidia cards. I have older ones (e.g. GeForce 630) in two of my boxes, and they run just fine with the proprietary drivers. You can get versions for older cards like mine from the Debian site. I've had troub

Re: How to install GRUB on removable media?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 5 Days 14 Hours ago by: Computer Nerd Kev

I've got a PC which only boots via EFI and it's boot disk is DOS partitioned, using the EFI ID for the boot partition. Works fine. Drives (eg. USB) can be partitioned as both GPT and DOS (if you ignore various warnings), as well as with

Re: How to install GRUB on removable media?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 5 Days 22 Hours ago by: Andrei Z.

EFI system partition - ArchWiki https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/EFI_system_partition "Note: It is recommended to use GPT since some firmwares might not support UEFI/MBR booting due to it not being supported by Windows Setup. See also P

Re: How to install GRUB on removable media?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 5 Days 22 Hours ago by: Carlos E. R.

If that is so, it will depend on the particular implementation in your computer firmware. I'm not going to try. AFAIK, YaST (openSUSE installer) refuses to do it.

Re: How to install GRUB on removable media?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 6 Days ago by: Pascal Hambourg

GPT is not mandatory for EFI boot (and conversely). Otherwise why does an "EFI system partition" type exist in DOS/MBR ?

Re: How to install GRUB on removable media?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 6 Days 1 Hour ago by: Carlos E. R.

You probably just needed to select in the "BIOS" (actually the UEFI) to boot from the external disk. There is usually a key that triggers that menu. On some laptops, it is not a key on the keyboard. No, it has to be mounted under boot,

Re: How to install GRUB on removable media?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 6 Days 6 Hours ago by: Pascal Hambourg

For GRUB the EFI partition must be mounted on /boot/efi, not /boot. To install GRUB on a removable media you should use # grub-install --force-extra-removable But for a persistent setup you should configure grub-efi-amd64 with # dpkg

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 6 Days 10 Hours ago by: TJ

Hello, Ant. I can't answer your question, because I have zero experience with Debian. I use Mageia Linux, and have since its inception a decade ago, and I can say that your hardware would work just fine with Mageia 8. I would, however

Re: How to install GRUB on removable media?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 6 Days 17 Hours ago by: Robert Latest

Note, I also tried grub-install --efi-directory=/boot/efi, same result.

How to install GRUB on removable media?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 6 Days 17 Hours ago by: Robert Latest

Hi all, I have this company Windows laptop that I use privately by booting from a USB3 SSD with a Debian installation. This used to work for years until it didn't any more a few days ago. Anyway, I ended up re-installing the complete Debia

Re: TestDisk,PhotoRec , or a Data Recovery Service First?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 6 Days 21 Hours ago by: Carlos E. R.

.... How big was that memory stick? The first step always should be to clone the disk to another one or as image file. Then you work at the image. If at all possible, you would clone it first, mark it read only, then a copy of the cop

Re: TestDisk,PhotoRec , or a Data Recovery Service First?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 6 Days 22 Hours ago by: Keith Scarlett

Hello, Firstly thanks all for the contributions, really useful. I have done something very similar (identical?) i.e. I was trying to format (write a disk image) to a memory stick while I also had a 500GB external drive attached and unfor

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 8 Days 9 Hours ago by: SevenOverSix

That'll work - WITHIN that context. I'm referring to the example being used as prototype GENERAL fix for every little problem. Not mentioning the limitations amounts to defective programming advice. Many (most) of us use c

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 9 Days 2 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

Well of course they are! Why on earth would one not make sure of that? You can use it anywhere you have the same sequence of POPS followed by a RET And in the case in point the original designer simply always used the same registers -

Re: Beginner's question.

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 9 Days 3 Hours ago by: Bud Frede

As Carlos said in another reply, you're just querying, not making changes, so I don't see why it should need root. I started using Debian in the mid '90s, and I don't remember ever needing to be root to do a query with dpkg. Ditto when

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 9 Days 5 Hours ago by: Richard Kettlewell

Nope. The example replaced a specific sequence of POPs and RET with a JMP to the same sequence of POPs and RET.

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 9 Days 8 Hours ago by: SevenOverSix

It's not the JMP ... it's what your JMP-ing FROM and TO. The provided example popped x-number of items off the stack, regardless of the situation you jumped FROM. IF your code/subs/isr's are all PERFECTLY regular, ALWAYS p

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 10 Days 5 Hours ago by: Richard Kettlewell

Nobody has. Introducing a JMP doesn’t affect the stack at all.

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 10 Days 6 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

Im really concrened that you cannot see how GOTO : pop pop pop Is different from just pop pop pop

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 10 Days 7 Hours ago by: SevenOverSix

Doesn't even MATTER if it's the same SP ... WHO has pushed their crap ONTO it at the instant ? I'm really concerned that you can't see how GOTO : pop pop pop any/everywhere in a program can go horrib

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 11 Days 4 Hours ago by: Richard Kettlewell

TNP’s code is x86; you can easily find the x86 instruction set reference online. There is nothing to support your counterfactual argument there. If you want to argue about some other ISA we can look at that instead.

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 11 Days 6 Hours ago by: SevenOverSix

Your fragment was sold as a fix for subroutineS. For ISR(s). In SOME carefully crafted software IT WILL WORK FINE. But not ALL. Especially for microcontrollers, "sub-less", GOTO-structured, code may be the BEST choice

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 11 Days 7 Hours ago by: SevenOverSix

Ummmmm ... did it for 30 years ... some of my product was used for a decade+ without issues. I must grasp SOMETHING ... For MICROCONTROLLERS it's all much simpler. You can have basically ONE context. An ISR might crea

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 11 Days 17 Hours ago by: jak

Sorry, just a clarification: Hotkey activated dos programs, otherwise called TSR (terminate and stay resident) programs, are not background processes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminate_and_stay_resident_program

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 12 Days 6 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

Why would you be using that code fragment *without* it being part of a subroutine? I've written reams of code to operate under context switched multitaskers and interrupt service routines, using subroutines As long as you only use mem

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 12 Days 6 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

No, I am genuinely concerned that you are coding real time software without apparently understanding how multitasking context switching works. Dont change the subjectt Yawn

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 12 Days 7 Hours ago by: SevenOverSix

ONLY if you use sub-less programs. Try that shit with threads/subs/ISRs and you'll get burnt. Absolutely guaranteed. Been there. Debugging was a total bitch. It's all CONTEXT - the environment, the hardware, how YOU set

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 12 Days 7 Hours ago by: SevenOverSix

IF you carefully code it that way. But as a "general fix" I'd still be wary. If you use GOTOs for a bunch of subs it may NOT be the current thread/isr you're popping from. The others may get, well, a tad upset .... Not usi

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 12 Days 11 Hours ago by: Jerry Peters

ROTFL, certainly *not* the IBM compilers. I had a habit of looking at the generated code -- it was *horrible*. It was so bad that a company called Capex wrote an optimizer for it. It greatly improved the efficiency of the programs. Jerr

Re: Beginner's question.

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 12 Days 15 Hours ago by: Carlos E. R.

You should not need to be root to make queries, only to install or remove things. And there are ways to allow a certain normal user to install things.

Re: Beginner's question.

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 12 Days 15 Hours ago by: Peter 'Shaggy' Haywo

Groovy hepcat Bud Frede was jivin' in comp.os.linux.misc on Tue, 7 Sep 2021 09:36 pm. It's a cool scene! Dig it. It seems you're right. I'm flabberghasted! My ghast has never been so flabbered! (Frankie Howerd in Carry On Up the Jungle)

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 13 Days ago by: Richard Kettlewell

It can happen, yes - it will be very dependent on what the code does, the relationship between its size and cache sizes, etc. Same with data: if you can make its representation smaller, enough so that it takes less cache lines (or pages,

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 13 Days 1 Hour ago by: The Natural Philosop

Thanks. That makes it clear. So in fact lots of very small often used subroutines might be faster than inline coding? Rather counter intuitive, that.

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 13 Days 1 Hour ago by: Tauno Voipio

A transfer of control usually causes a flush of the instruction pipeline and, dependent on cache size and alignment with respect to the transfer, also a cache miss. An exception may be a processor with several speculative execution paths

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 13 Days 2 Hours ago by: Richard Kettlewell

Suppose you have many consecutive functions with the common tail, and you execute all of them once. For each of those functions, the object code of the function must be loaded from main memory into cache. The number of loads from main me

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 13 Days 3 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

Thanks Richard. On the matter of caching, It's been bothering me...surely even if the instruction set is cached, a JMP instruction still takes time, or has the processor simply 'cut and pasted' the instruction block into the pipeline a

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 13 Days 5 Hours ago by: Richard Kettlewell

TNP’s space optimization doesn’t affect the meaning of the code. POP uses the same SP regardless of where the instruction is located. You are talking nonsense.

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 13 Days 6 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

I answered that: The stack that is owned by the current thread The fact that you cannot understand why that makes your comment irrelevant worries me greatly. Do you work for Boeing?

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 13 Days 7 Hours ago by: SevenOverSix

Oh PLEASE ....... I was using ISRs while the common advice was to poll inputs ....... I was doing it 30+ years ago too, 8051s mostly. My, how time flies .... I liked the 8051 ... you can still buy "compatibles" u

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 13 Days 12 Hours ago by: Charlie Gibbs

Too bad. I've been with them a long time, and never noticed too many outages. I dug through my stuff and in the configuration for Pan (which I used to use to download from the binaries groups but haven't used for several years) I found

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 13 Days 14 Hours ago by: J. Clarke

Shame, but they brought it on themselves. Too many outages--I finally changed over to Forteinc. One of the things that annoyed me about Newsguy was the periodic shutdowns when the moved their servers to a new location--remind me of the

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 13 Days 16 Hours ago by: Ahem A Rivet's Shot

Somewhere in the middle with Ken Dodd's tickling stick I think.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 13 Days 16 Hours ago by: Dan Espen

https://www.reddit.com/r/usenet/comments/ph9lde/newsguycom_whats_happening/ Bankrupt.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 13 Days 17 Hours ago by: Charlie Gibbs

As Stan Kelly-Bootle said in _The Devil's DP Dictionary_, Yet FORTRAN gallops on, transportable as syphilis, fired by a bottomless pit of working subprograms. BTW has anyone else noticed that Newsguy has died?

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 13 Days 17 Hours ago by: Charlie Gibbs

With Bill Gates hacking away at the bottom...

Re: Beginner's question.

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 14 Days 1 Hour ago by: Bud Frede

Ok, so I was ninja'd on this. :-) I'm not sure sudo is required for these though. In fact, I don't think I've ever needed sudo to run them.

Re: Beginner's question.

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 14 Days 1 Hour ago by: Bud Frede

You can click the LM button and then use the search box. That will find some things. For the rest, you tend to have to query the package manager to see what files were installed by a given package. Search for a package: dpkg-query -l t

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 14 Days 5 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

YOUR stack in THIS thread. Of course you do stack context switches in multithreading - but this doesn't affect code. I don't think you understand stack frames properly. They are always private to the thread. That's the whole point, That

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 14 Days 6 Hours ago by: SevenOverSix

And THAT "depends". Debian is basically "state of the art", it's a damned good distro - the mother of SO many others. You can enlarge, or shrink, it over a VERY wide range. Slitaz/Tiny is probably the lower end, a big f

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 14 Days 7 Hours ago by: SevenOverSix

Nope. It's context-dependent. WHOSE stack are you popping from ? Modern languages essentially have "stack frames", a de-facto stack for every function/subroutine. The old TI-9900 chips actually kinda rigged this in hard

Enable '-Werror' by default for all kernel builds

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 14 Days 7 Hours ago by: Andrei Z.

kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id?e617ccafd6f5bb33c2391d6f4eeb41c1fd0151 <quote> Enable '-Werror' by default for all kernel builds .... but make it a config option

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 14 Days 18 Hours ago by: Rich Alderson

Order of invention was CPL, BCPL, B, and C. There were jokes in the 1980s nad 1990s about the proper name for the next language in the sequence: D, or P? (Note that at least one object-oriented C successor named D was created.)

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 14 Days 21 Hours ago by: David W. Hodgins

Depends on the task. PL/1 supported 15 dimensional arrays. I don't remember if Fortran did, but even if it did, PL/1 allowing better variable names to be used allowing it to still be understandable. If a variable name exceeded 30 charact

Re: Beginner's question.

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 1 Hour ago by: The Natural Philosop

English not your first language? I think we would say 'particular to' or 'only restricted to' ... Which is a pity. Privative is a neat way to say it if it was an english word

Re: Beginner's question.

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 1 Hour ago by: The Natural Philosop

MOST menu items cam be right clicked for an 'add to panel' or add to desktop' icon to be created in MATE at least. But I query your 'majority do not': Essentially programs that are maintained by MINT will install as expected - its the

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 1 Hour ago by: The Natural Philosop

That's an interesting point: I think you are spot on. I wasn't thinking about caches at all.

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 1 Hour ago by: The Natural Philosop

That depends entirely on what you are doing!

Re: Beginner's question.

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 2 Hours ago by: Carlos E. R.

That is not privative to Mint.

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 2 Hours ago by: Richard Kettlewell

As far as I can see from a superficial test, gcc 10.2.1 will perform this optimization within a function but not across multiple functions. The same goes for Clang 11.0.1. On a simple CPU, yes. On a modern general-purpose CPU I’d exp

Re: Beginner's question.

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 2 Hours ago by: Jane

I'm surprised that anyone would use any version other than mint. It saves a lot of time.... brilliant... Most of the popular programs such as filezilla or KolourPaint install an icon in the main menu but the majority do not....and invar

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 3 Hours ago by: Tauno Voipio

It does. The GCC switch is -Os. In practice the speed difference in not noticeable.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 3 Hours ago by: Tauno Voipio

The rope memory was ROM. It used soft ferrite (transformer) cores. A ferrite storage memory used square-loop (permanen magnet) cores. There was as many cores as the memory bit width, each having a secondary winding and a sense amplifier.

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 4 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

I am sure that optimizing for size would use something like that. It is fractionally *slower*

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 5 Hours ago by: Tauno Voipio

It is a method called 'tail-ending' in compilers. Any reasonably recent version of the GNU GCC is able to do it without programmer assistance, except selecting high enough optimization levele when compiling.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 5 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

Core store is very radiation proof. And very shock and vibration proof

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 5 Hours ago by: Ahem A Rivet's Shot

The earliest story of the origin I read (sometime before 1.0) was that he started with a clever idea for a more efficient context switch, developed it under Minix and built out from there picking up fellow travellers along the way to he

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 5 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

which turned out to be less handy. ALGOL was also there, and IIRC that morphed into B, BCPL and then C..

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 5 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

I couldn't find any on a cursory search. I'll have Yep. Flash mainly Fusible link was good - we used UV erasable until the code was stable, then blew the PROMS. Typically this would be what was in a PC BIOS: I guess today that is Fla

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 5 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

That code is thread proof it does not alter memory, only the state of the CPU Of course there were interrupts. This was a PC BIOS.

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 5 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

The problem is that a language does not turn a bad programmer into a good one. It just changes the type of mistakes he makes

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 8 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Oh yea, they DID have "hard disks" back in the day. These were 5-10 brownish platters in a pack. You'd open something about the size of a diswasher and stick the pack in, turn the handle to remove the cover. There were squarish reader arms

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 10 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Found an DR-PL/I compiler image that'll run in a DosBox or VirtualBox DOS environment. No MANUAL though. There was no such thing as a "standard implementation" back then (and hardly NOW) so you need an DR-PL/I manual to ef

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 10 Hours ago by: J. Clarke

I understand it started out making some improvements on Minix, and he improved right into a full blown Unix workalike.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 12 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Do any of them still use fusible link memory ? I'll have to check. My guess is "no" - it's all "field RE-programmable" these days. I did get a hit for more traditional fusible-link chips, they CAN still be purchased. Most

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 12 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

I think Linus was also too broke to buy UNIX :-) So, BUILD YOUR OWN. The only way to stay sane. Often the automation work is MUCH more interesting than whatever project you're automating :-)

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 12 Hours ago by: Carlos E. R.

.... Indeed, Pascal does have a "goto", and I read about it in Nicklaus Wirth book no less. Certainly, gotos have their place. Spaghetti code is something else.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 12 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

I'm sure the IDEA of "Write once - run it anywhere" went back even before Wirth. However the HARDWARE may not have been up to it. Those VMs/code-interpreters use up memory and storage space. Older computers hardly HAD any mem

Re: OT Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 13 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Uh huh - see it all the time. They want to rebuild those little towns down where the hurricane came in last week too. Guess what happens NEXT year or the year after .... One of the WORST cases you can easily see in Google Map

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 13 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

This dichotomy is understood - you can go more wild west on computers you own. The other side of this are CEOs, division mangers, pointy-haired bosses, with NO CLUE how any box/OS does/should/must work. Whatever the All Import

Re: fine old languages, HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 14 Hours ago by: John Levine

It also had a fair amount of Algol mixed in to give it block structure and recursion. Considering that PL/I was invented by a committee at IBM under intense time pressure to ship and all-purpose language to use on their all-purpose S/360

Re: real programmers, was HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 14 Hours ago by: John Levine

No worse than the Fortran assigned GOTO. Sensible programmers stopped using them as soon as there were other ways to write subroutines, like about 1962. Academincs sneered at COBOL because it was so wordy and looked like pseudo-English

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 20 Hours ago by: Tauno Voipio

The p-code is a bit older. AFAIK, it was first used in the first Pascal compiler system made at the ETH (Eidgenössische Technische Hohscule) in Zurich, by Urs Ammann, Christian Jacobi and Kesav Nori under direction of professor Niklaus W

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 20 Hours ago by: Andreas Kohlbach

I think that is only true until the mid 80s. From 1971 to around 1984 the address/data bus size of a (microprocessor based) CPU doubled several times to 32-Bit. Since around 2000 mainstream hardware is stuck at 64-bit. Today it's more RA

Re: OT Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 21 Hours ago by: Andreas Kohlbach

Like in the event of earthquakes which more or less completely destroyed small (Italian) villages several times in a millennium. History knows about half a dozen events. But no, "Lets rebuild our village again" - at the exact same locatio

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 21 Hours ago by: David W. Hodgins

Then there was PL/1, which was basically a combination of Fortran and Cobol. Regards, Dave Hodgins

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 22 Hours ago by: Dennis Boone

Hah. You can write bad code in any language, and CObOL gives you plenty of rope. ALTER clause anyone? De

Paragon NTFS driver was merged in 5.15

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 22 Hours ago by: Andrei Z.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 23 Hours ago by: J. Clarke

Works for me. The two that go with it are that "it is easier to gain forgiveness than permission" and "initiative is when you did something you weren't supposed to do and it turned out good". Much of my work is boring and annoying. Wh

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 15 Days 23 Hours ago by: Dan Espen

I can't imagine why... [root]# dnf remove samba Dependencies resolved. ==============================================================================================================================================================

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days ago by: The Natural Philosop

BASIC FORTH All interpreters like P code and from earlier

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days ago by: Anssi Saari

Yes, I see the connection now to terminal emulators. Well, it seemed a little unlikely to me Java would have much in the way of originality so I looked around for precedents. The result is, the UCSD p-system was probably the first "writ

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days 1 Hour ago by: Richard Kettlewell

Well so far the only concrete evidence I have is that nothing I care about on a normal desktop system or server depends on vi. Maybe there’s something that you or SixOverFive care about, but saying that something depends on it without s

Re: OT : Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days 1 Hour ago by: The Natural Philosop

No, you just have to write some impenetrable gobbledygook and get a chum to peer review it. "The influence of Patriarchal Modality on the development of unconscious homophobia in the Victorian institution' etc etc Clever people striv

OT : Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days 2 Hours ago by: gareth evans

Sorry, an afterthought ... I thought that to get a PhD you had to either invent something or else discover something previously unfathomable but the plague of PhDs awarded these days do not seem to be accompanied by widespread increases o

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days 2 Hours ago by: gareth evans

AIUI, you failed your Computer Science PhD assessment if you used, "very" instead of, "highly".

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days 2 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

And then you get Computer Scientists, and their attitude is 'this is too easy/simple, how can we make it more complicated?'

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days 3 Hours ago by: Stéphane CARPENTIER

No, Linus' attitude was more "I want to have fun, do you want to have fun too?"

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days 3 Hours ago by: Ahem A Rivet's Shot

More like Stallman's and before that a certain group at Berkeley and before that a handful of people at Bell and before that ... It's giant's shoulders all the way down, all stacked up like a circus pyramid.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days 4 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

COBOL was and is a damned good language for commercial programming: It enforces a discipline on coding and can be used on machines with extremely low RAM. It is extremely *efficient* in execution (though massively wordy in source code

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days 4 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

Which was pretty much Linus' attitude, and the rest, is history

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days 4 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

Lord knows, but I am massively surprised that something does not. I have no use for e.g. samba at all, but I am fairly sure something depends on it

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days 4 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

You are really simply echoing te dichotomy between a personal computer, which does what *I* want, and a corporate system, which has to do what your *employer* wants, subject to maintainability and reliability and security constraints.

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days 5 Hours ago by: Richard Kettlewell

I have indeed uninstalled it and didn’t get any grief over it. What do you think depends on it?

Re: OT Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days 6 Hours ago by: Joerg Lorenz

And ignorant and stupid idiots and Trolls never died out whether it was freezing cold or boiling hot. *SCNR*

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days 6 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Know a guy who got a job fairly recently at a govt op ... one requirement was that he learn COBOL because they'd heavily invested in *perfect* COBOL apps way back in the day and would not, could not afford to, have them re-

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days 7 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

PART of the problem is that the computer world was evolving SO fast back then. What was State Of The Art one year was Obsolete Crap the next. So, the prof wasn't necessarily stupid - but perhaps just a SINGLE year behind

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days 8 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Well, Java is a "virtual machine". You write an interpreter for each platform and then your Java runs on ALL of them. As I recall, the TexTronic terminals were VECTOR graphics, not bitmap. Point(x,y), Line(x1,y1,x2,y2).

Re: OT Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days 8 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Florida is not going under for centuries. One asteroid hit or volcanic event and it'll be the Big Freeze again and you could WALK from Miami to Grand Bahama. The climate has NEVER been stable. But don't invest heavily in

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days 8 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

CLI does have its place. GUIs cannot always accomodate the level of detail needed to do tricky stuff. But here, mostly, I was talking about EDITORS. The ONLY CLI editor I regularly use is nano. The rest can just be flushed

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days 9 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Part of the "standard install". You CAN uninstall - though usually you'll get all kinds of screaming warnings about how 999 other things will also be uninstalled. You can mark it to not be RE-installed too - but again you'

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days 19 Hours ago by: Stéphane CARPENTIER

Certainly not. Agreed. With nvidia, you need the proprietary drivers. An they are not written as fast as the kernel, so they always lag behind. Yes. With nvidia, you have always had the need to use the proprietary drivers. But two dec

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days 19 Hours ago by: Stéphane CARPENTIER

Certainly not. The CLI is the most efficient way to achieve a lot of things. By design, you can script and automate a lot of task more easily than with a GUI. Yes, and on a lot of subjects.

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days 19 Hours ago by: Stéphane CARPENTIER

Cheating on your installer can't be a good advice. If you don't like what it does, use another installer, install everything manually, whatever. But cheating is the better way to have an unstable system without being able to understand wh

Re: OT Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days 19 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

the man who drank the koolaid - and then asked for more.

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days 19 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

sell your beachside properties below cost to hollywood stars who take private jets to attend climate conferences. THEY will buy them because THEY know man made climate change is 9$% bunk. They are paid to ACT (that's why they are called

Re: OT Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days 21 Hours ago by: Bobbie Sellers

Keep up on the news. New York City lost people in basement apartments. The Oceans are rising, And the first hint will be when a heavy rain hits and the water has no place to go. Miami may be sinking, but the Gulf and Atlantic wate

Re: OT Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days 21 Hours ago by: Bobbie Sellers

Keep up on the news. New York City lost people in basement apartments. The Oceans are rising, And the first hint will be when a heavy rain hits and the water has no place to go. Miami may be sinking, but the Gulf and Atlantic water

Re: OT Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days 21 Hours ago by: Bobbie Sellers

Keep up on the news. New York City lost people in basement apartments. The Oceans are rising, And the first hint will be when a heavy rain hits and the water has no place to go. Miami may be sinking, but the Gulf and Atlantic water

OT Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days 21 Hours ago by: Rinaldi

I hope that was tongue in cheek. In 2001 I bought a condo on the Fl east coast, 8 feet above sea level. Today still 8 feet above. Miami is sinking because it was built on recovered swampland. Don't believe the hype. Rinaldi

Re: thirty years ago

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days 22 Hours ago by: Solbu

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Eli the Bearded wrote: If I ever get a chance to attend one of Torvalds talks, the one question I dream of asking is: When will it be big and professional like Gnu. :-) - -- Solbu - http

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 16 Days 22 Hours ago by: Bobbie Sellers

snipp/ Don't forget your breathing apparatus when Florida falls beneath the encroaching waters. Somewhere inland would be better and on hard rack not that porous limestone that Florida seems to be made of.

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 17 Days 3 Hours ago by: Joerg Lorenz

*SIC*

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 17 Days 3 Hours ago by: Joerg Lorenz

Tja. On a productive system that is absolutely insane. *ROTFLSTC*

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 17 Days 3 Hours ago by: Carlos E. R.

BLA BLA BLA removed. It is fine not to like vi. And the people that designed Linux know this, and created a simple way to tell the system that you want to use LeafPad instead, or whatever. Not a cheat. A documented method that works sin

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 17 Days 4 Hours ago by: Marc Haber

It is a horrible idea to work against everything what the smart people who devised your operating system have come up with. Only Idiots do that.

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 17 Days 5 Hours ago by: Richard Kettlewell

Why do you even have vi installed then?

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 17 Days 7 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Yea ! SUBSTANCE over Style ... what BARBARIANS !!! Then the Real World has little left for you (and I) ... Unfortunately, VERY unfortunately, there are a LOT of Dilberts, caught in the SAME jungle of pointy-haired bos

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 17 Days 7 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

There WERE modems for C64s ... but they WERE kind of expensive. I spent a lot of my poor paychecks on PC hardware back then ... And yes, many BBS's were long-distance calls. Liked the old BYTE Mag BBS though - toll free numb

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 17 Days 8 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Well played sir :-) Yes, there WAS a time when 300 baud was magically advanced :-) "Models" are almost always that way alas .... the Real World is MESSY and infested with Butterflies. In the old days, these "modelers"

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 17 Days 8 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Sometimes you can brute-force certain tweaks by abusing permissions. It's easier. Horrible ? Maybe. BUT if I want systems to boss me around I'll use Win or IOS. I've always been a utilitarian, not an ideologist or worshi

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 17 Days 9 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

SOMETIMES though, you can CHEAT. Change the properties of your symlink so even root can't edit/change/replace it. The installer may bitch, but SO WHAT. A backup is to simply make a script you run after updates, one that o

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 17 Days 12 Hours ago by: J. Clarke

They are. Unfortunately these days to get a job you have to move to India and be willing to work for an Indian wage. It's a _good_ Indian wage mind you, I understand you can live comfortably on it, but it's below US minimum.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 17 Days 13 Hours ago by: Andreas Kohlbach

We're talking nostalgia/folklore, but not (or just as side note) about Linux in recent articles... So I set the F'up.

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 17 Days 13 Hours ago by: Andreas Kohlbach

~/.bash_profile should be a good place. Have several variables set up in that file, and they survived there since years.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 17 Days 16 Hours ago by: Peter Flass

COBOL programmers are still in demand, apparently.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 17 Days 17 Hours ago by: Questor

I'm glad I had the opportunity to have some first-hand experience with the "submit a deck of punched cards" model of computing in college. I'm even gladder that timewharing was an option and I didn't have to use punched cards very long.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 17 Days 18 Hours ago by: Ahem A Rivet's Shot

Reminds me of the A level computer science course I wished I hadn't taken - the year before it had been all about machine architecture, assembly language programming, data structures and algorithms, fun stuff. But I wasn't allowed to ta

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 17 Days 19 Hours ago by: J. Clarke

Some professors are like that. I remember helping an undergrad find the keypunch (I was a computer science grad student and I didn't even know the school _had_ a keypunch or card reader until that came up). Seems he was taking a program

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 17 Days 20 Hours ago by: Ahem A Rivet's Shot

We found it very useful in 1974, turn on punch both ends and run tapes through the readers at each end to get two way data transfer with hard copy.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 17 Days 21 Hours ago by: Andreas Kohlbach

I was so underprivileged to miss the early days in micro-computing. And when I finally had my first (Commodore 64 in late 1984) no one had a modem. It was too expensive and the next BBS was a long distance call away. One of the days bac

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 17 Days 23 Hours ago by: Scott Lurndal

Try 110 baud with an ASR-33. Switching to 300 baud on a LA-120 was blazing fast...

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 18 Days 3 Hours ago by: Carlos E. R.

Certainly. Besides, vi is not similar to edlin. It is "ed" which is similar to edlin. Thanks :-)

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 18 Days 4 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

I raise you 50 baud and an acoustic coupler early 1970s My first experience of 'computer modelling' at the far end of the phone line. The model predicted results were of course nothing like the actual real world result, because the mod

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 18 Days 5 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Wow - SO priviledged !!! :-) 300 baud is where I started, back in the early 80's. You could literally read the text AS it came in. But there were slower rates before that ... VIC-20s, Atari-400s, one LSI-11 box ... massiv

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 18 Days 5 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Yep, it was intended as a direct competitor to the Compaq "portable" ... and, at the time, also Osbourne and KayPro. But, like them, it was basically a desktop PC shoved into a suitcase-sized box with a handle. I was u

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 18 Days 6 Hours ago by: Marc Haber

Your Symlinks will be replaced by updates. You're not supposed to peddle with package contents. Environment Variables, set in the correct places, will survive updates. That's a matter of style. I switched over from an emacs-type editor

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 18 Days 6 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Yep, that was the politic of the time. Jobs and some others had paid their politicians to start anti-Trust proceedings on MS - and Bill, oddly, had forgotten to grease HIS reps. But he learned. Well, relatively ....

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 18 Days 7 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Oddly, no ... I've done that before, but certain UPDATES have set it BACK to the BadOldDays default on more than one occasion - ALMOST like Bill Gates just KNOWING how you REALLY want to set up his wunnerful system.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 18 Days 7 Hours ago by: Anssi Saari

I don't know what Java has to do with that but in a way it has become reality as some terminal emulators these days support DEC's old sixel graphics. These are bitmap graphics. Some apps support it too, so for example you can use gnuplot

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 18 Days 9 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

I don't think you're crazy/evil for YOUR vision of what servers etc are "supposed to be like" ... my vision is just different, MAYBE a tad more "modern". I am not afraid of GUIs and am NOT concerned they'll "overload" an i1

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 18 Days 11 Hours ago by: Andreas Kohlbach

Started with PCs in 1995 and had a 28,000 Modem. Used it in Windows 95 which came with the PC but also in pure MS-DOS. I think you could abort the Windows boot and issue a parameter "gui=0" or something that Windows was involved. Cannot r

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 18 Days 16 Hours ago by: Bobbie Sellers

Anyone who paid attention knew a 300 baud modem was slow, 1200 baud was a little better but I waited for the first cheap <$100 2400 baud device was for sale at a computer show. That was special. bliss - boots & runs a Pretty Cool Lin

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 18 Days 18 Hours ago by: Andreas Kohlbach

Didn't IBM came up with that after they saw the tremendous success of the COMPAQ Portable (I think it was called "COMPAQ" when advertised). I seem to remember the look came to be when two of the employees were on a lunch break and put the

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 19 Days 2 Hours ago by: Carlos E. R.

.... This is the wrong way to do it. Just define the environment var "EDITOR" EDITOR=/usr/bin/nano And then visudo will use nano transparently. And many other tools that use an editor.

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 19 Days 4 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

Why having a discussion about technical aspects when it's so easy to go personal.

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 19 Days 5 Hours ago by: Marc Haber

We have. And I'm actually happy about it. Why having a discussion about technical aspects when it's so easy to go personal.

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 19 Days 5 Hours ago by: Marc Haber

If that was the case, it would depend on aptitude. It doesn't. Things would be so easy if you had a remote clue about what you're talking about.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 19 Days 7 Hours ago by: Charlie Gibbs

M$ gave Apple $150M to get the Department of Justice off their backs. They realized that that if Apple went down, they'd be unable to defend themselves against accusations that they are a monopoly. They need Apple alive, but weak. And

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 19 Days 7 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

An Osbourne/KayPro OUGHT to boot OK even after all this time. The main worry is old-style capacitors. The secondary worry is that the coating will flake off boot disks the minute you spin them up. There at least USED to be

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 19 Days 8 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Did ONE project on an Osbourne (or was it KayPro) "portable" for people who were *convinced* CP/M-80 was forever and always in the Business World. DOS - just a 'fad'. Oh well, they paid actual money so .... :-) The IBM "p

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 19 Days 8 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

I think v2, or at least 1.1, came with XPs.Archive has v1, and I've been playing with that. Try "winworld" for ancient DOS stuff. Found IBM-C v1 and IBM-Pascal v2. Lots of Turbo/Borland pascals. Also got MS-C v6 (v7 *expec

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 19 Days 9 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Correct. The NeverGUI people kind of worry me these days. I smell "job security", not anything relating to vital function. Synaptic bundles access to several install/update aspects all under one easy roof. Sure, you CA

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 19 Days 9 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

For containers, I agree. But I don't use containers/VMs on servers. Had too many negative experiences. The hardware is cheap enough these days that you can dedicate a box-per-task-or-two. Now I mostly do small/medium outfi

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 19 Days 10 Hours ago by: pH

I appreciate the links you have in your sig and found the 18 reasons one very interesting reading. pH

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 19 Days 11 Hours ago by: Roger Blake

I still have my Interact in the original box. Hasn't worked in ages though. http://oldcomputermuseum.com/interact.html

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 20 Days 1 Hour ago by: The Natural Philosop

No *need*, but many people migrating from Windows feel more comfortable...in a more or less 100% GUI for user level and basic code installation. Synaptic is simply a GUI face on aptitude....

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 20 Days 1 Hour ago by: Andreas Kohlbach

Agreed. aptitude or apt-get rules the Debian universe. No need for a GUI.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 20 Days 1 Hour ago by: Andreas Kohlbach

All of them. Plus the Osborn, Kaypro and many other micros of the 1980s.

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 20 Days 1 Hour ago by: Carlos E. R.

I had to do the same as Marc, as my NVidia card stopped being supported by the proprietary driver, and I changed to AMD too. Native Linux support for Nvidia cards is limited, there is no 3d, and limited hardware acceleration (with the o

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 20 Days 3 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

I have never found an Nvidia card that didn't have a driver that worked with it, and their Linux support is massively better than any other manufacturer Buy Nvidia whenever possible for Linux.

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 20 Days 4 Hours ago by: Marc Haber

If so, this has changed in the last five years. My last nVidia graphics card was removed from the machine and replaced with AMD since the nVidia legacy driver suddenly stopped supporting it. This has never happened to me before or afterw

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 20 Days 4 Hours ago by: Marc Haber

I think you can override the settings if you want recommends. ALso, apt says which recommended / suggested package it doesn install. I find it dangerous to have the "give me the full thing" as default, it's too easy to omit the option on

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 20 Days 5 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

well FPGAS are sort of usable as that design your won processor and its microcode...

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 20 Days 8 Hours ago by: Charlie Gibbs

Nah, MS-DOS had plenty of warts, most of which Windows inherited. At the height of the look-and-feel lawsuits, a cartoon appeared showing one lawyer saying to another: "You look like I feel." You make this sound like a bad thing. I

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 20 Days 8 Hours ago by: Charlie Gibbs

On the rare occasions that I use my wife's Mac, I feel that I'm not so much using it as it is using me. See my .sig...

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 20 Days 9 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Um ... I was sort of contradicting your assessment, so the "No" had a proper place. I'm surprised we don't see "DOS-On-Chip" microcontrollers. Basically burn DOS 5/6/7 into the thing so you have a capable, yet compact/fast

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 20 Days 9 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

You could make do nicely with about 10 of them. I'll have to find a WordStar .img file somewhere ... I'm not sure what "vintage" means to YOU. A VIC-20 ? ZX-81 ? TI-994a ? C64 ? Atari ? CoCo ? I bought almost all of those

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 20 Days 15 Hours ago by: Branimir Maksimovic

he is either unemployed or he is payed for doing this.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 20 Days 16 Hours ago by: Eli the Bearded

Yes. Sometimes used in reference to people who lean on Stack Overflow too much. Congratuations, now you have. Some further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_programming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_science

Re: Why are hyperlinks blue?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 20 Days 17 Hours ago by: Richard Kettlewell

There are defaults in the V7 kernel: #define CERASE '#' /* default special characters */ [...] /* * set default control characters. */ ttychars(tp) register struct tty *tp; { tun.t_intrc = C

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 20 Days 18 Hours ago by: Bobbie Sellers

And nothing is snappier than AmigaOS on a 68000 processor with 8 Megabytes of memory and a 100 Megabyte hard drive. But I will go with Linux instead of reviving my beloved A2000b with 68060 and 4 Gigabyte hard drive and 64 MB of ram.

Re: Kubuntu for Pi-400

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 20 Days 18 Hours ago by: Bobbie Sellers

That is because KDE's Plasma 5 is much lighter than people think. It takes up more space on disk but less in ram memory. People remember too long what the old KDE was like in the days of slower processors and more limited disk space a

Re: Kubuntu for Pi-400

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 20 Days 20 Hours ago by: David W. Hodgins

On an rpi 4b, running kde (Mageia 8) with all desktop effects and most background services disabled, it runs much better than I expected. $ free -m total used free shared buff/cache available Mem:

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 20 Days 20 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

In a nutshell yes. My desktop is set up with a MAC look, but that's all

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 20 Days 20 Hours ago by: Joerg Lorenz

*Really*?! Everything is an improvement over Windows 1X, IMHO. MacOS is more sophisticated as far as the look is concerned but it is a digital prison.

Re: Kubuntu for Pi-400

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 20 Days 21 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

'Zactly. People who have lived in the dark Windows universe are used to *THE* GUI and imagine they'd have to seriously take wrenches and hammers to Linux in order to get a different desktop. Instead, it's EASY - and if you

Re: Kubuntu for Pi-400

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 20 Days 22 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

On a PI ? Ok, but it's NOT going to be snappy. You don't really have to "compile your own distro", you can start with Ubuntu-PI and just install K in there. The process is pretty well documented on the web, sometimes wit

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 20 Days 22 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

That'll work - but usually I like to decide on a case-by-case basis. However someone using VERY limited old hardware might want to set those as defaults. Often very innocent looking programs drag in a HUGE amount of crap th

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 20 Days 22 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

In my book that is not really an upward step from Windows ;-)

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 20 Days 22 Hours ago by: Joerg Lorenz

Really? I think that is a matter of taste. I always worked with Cinnamon on rather powerful machines. That is as good as a Mac OS-machine. This posting is written on a MacBook Air with a Cinnamon installed as sole OS.

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 20 Days 23 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

Agreed, but if he can add some RAM. I feel Mate is a better "User Experience"

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 20 Days 23 Hours ago by: Joerg Lorenz

https://linuxmint.com/edition.php?id)0 Xfce should be even lighter on the system. Also good multimedia-support.

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 21 Days 2 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

That will take a lot more RAM., stuff it in

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 21 Days 2 Hours ago by: Andreas Kohlbach

/me hugs the WordStar Diamond As I mentioned I love running vintage machines in an emulator I never owned to relive early micro computer history. For fun I did some word editing with WordStar on a Osborn I. Its keyboard doesn't has curso

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 21 Days 3 Hours ago by: Andreas Kohlbach

I wish I had your specs. My notebook is "only" nine years old, but with a Duo-Core CPU. Board has 4 GB RAM, running 32-Bit (PAE) Debian. The Gnome GUI runs fine - *if* not too many apps are running at the same time. Also have RealTek chi

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 21 Days 3 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

It is currently in use on a machine here -part of Linux Mint 20 distro. and installed automatically. But the generic Linux nouveau driver is adequate, if slower

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 21 Days 3 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

Sorry - that's semi obsolete 340.108 is the latest one - last updated 2019 I've used that one on a very old laptop, before it died...its OK.

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 21 Days 3 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

Nvidia support very old legacy hardware with up to date linux drivers. 295.49 is the driver that will be needed. It is likely that at least Ubuntu/Mint will have that in the repository and suggest its installation at install time

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 21 Days 3 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

Never heard it used that way, ever.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 21 Days 4 Hours ago by: Richard Kettlewell

You were asked for an example that used only knowledge of the syntax, which is what you’ve spent the last few posts claiming is all you need. Turns out what you really meant by “knowledge of the syntax” was “an example to blindly

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 21 Days 4 Hours ago by: Marc Haber

|[2/5046]mh@drop:~ $ cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/70RecommendsSuggests |APT { | Install-Recommends "false"; | Install-Suggests "false"; |}; | |[3/5047]mh@drop:~ $ Greetings Marc

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 21 Days 4 Hours ago by: Marc Haber

[Please don't crosspost this wildly in the future, and at least set a Followup-To: header] ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote: Do yourself the favor and upgrade your RAM to 8 GB, if the board allows that. Be careful not to exceed the remainin

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 21 Days 4 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

I think you meant "Yes, you can use it for Real Programs ... within its inherent limitations." Real programs can be written in assembler to run without any operating system but all of them have to be loaded somehow.,..

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 21 Days 6 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

No, you can use it for Real Programs ... within its inherent limitations. Semi-RealTime, old irreplacable databases, device management, microcontroller programming, it's actually very capable - all in a TINY low-horsepower

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 21 Days 7 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

WordStar was OK ... basic, but GOT IT DONE. Just had to learn those shortcut commands :-) I used early Turbo Pascal a lot ... it used WordStar shortcuts. Got used to them pretty quick. And yes, you could use WordStar on

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 21 Days 7 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

The Boss wants PRODUCT, PROFIT - and he/she/it wants it NOW. Doesn't MATTER if it's a crappy un-extensible un-supportable design, just has to LOOK GOOD so the advertisers can SELL it. And that's The Truth about far far mor

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 21 Days 8 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Hell YES. Debian is really NOT a "heavy" OS. Indeed it can be super-Spartan. Look at Slitaz .... measures in MEGAbytes. Deb + LXDE or OpenBox will run quite well on even decade+ year old hardware. No, you can't run the latest video games

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 21 Days 9 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

Try Linux Mint Mate Verty good multimedia support. Not as dumbed as Cinnamon

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 21 Days 12 Hours ago by: Bobbie Sellers

If you switch to PCLinuxOS 64 you will have plenty of updates nearly every week. Rolling releases like PCL are kept much more up-to-date than Outfits like Debian that only publish wnen prepared to deal with the problems a new release c

Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 21 Days 12 Hours ago by: Roger Blake

I'm running Lubuntu 18.04 on a 2004-vintage Centrino laptop, and Debian 11 with LXDE on an Asus Eee netbook from 2009. These are 32-bit 2GB systems with small SSDs installed. They're not speed demons but work fine. Don't expect to play HD

Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 21 Days 13 Hours ago by: Ant

I'll be mainly doing basic stuff like web browsing, e-mails, newsgroups, downloads, listening to audio, watching videos, simple SSH2 server, etc. I currently run updated Debian Jessie v8's KDE which is fine but it doesn't get updates for y

Re: Kubuntu for Pi-400

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 21 Days 16 Hours ago by: Dave

Got it - thanks so much! Dave,

Re: Kubuntu for Pi-400

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 21 Days 18 Hours ago by: John-Paul Stewart

I think you misunderstood the previous poster's suggestion. You don't need to compile anything. Install Ubuntu and add the ready-made KDE packages from the Ubuntu repository. On the command line 'sudo apt install kde-full' will do it.

Re: Kubuntu for Pi-400

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 21 Days 20 Hours ago by: David W. Hodgins

Mageia has "experimental" support for arm. I have kde plasma running on an rpi 4. The only problem I have with it is that sound over hdmi is not working, with no sound output device detected. Bootable images are available ... http://mirr

Re: Kubuntu for Pi-400

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 21 Days 22 Hours ago by: Dave

I don't have time or desire to compile my own version for the ARM processor, or any good way to test it yet. Nor do I want to get stuck supporting people with my home-brew version. That is why I was hoping that the Kubuntu folks were

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 21 Days 23 Hours ago by: Charlie Gibbs

Not over and over and over, perhaps. But given a sufficiently crappy design, vague and/or conflicting specs, and a steady stream of ill-conceived change requests, the system will eventually fall apart, at which time even the dumbest man

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 21 Days 23 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

Well yes, I was a bit puzzled by the use of that term. I assumed it was sort of like 'using something not invented or understood here, but delivered by someone who knew what they were doing' Which is stretching the definition of cargo cu

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 22 Days 1 Hour ago by: Dan Espen

I was asked for an example, I gave it. Not enough for you? I'm wasting my time. Cargo cult: A cargo cult is an indigenist millenarian belief system in which adherents perform rituals which they believe will cause a more technolog

Re: Kubuntu for Pi-400

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 22 Days 5 Hours ago by: Anssi Saari

Yes, and ARM processors have been in Raspberry Pis since the beginning. My conclusion then is that no porting work is needed that isn't already done.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 22 Days 5 Hours ago by: Richard Kettlewell

Cargo-culting one example is a bit different to understanding the system. If you wanted to do anything even slightly different you’d need to read the manual. Which isn’t unreasonable, but it’s a long way beyond knowing the config f

Re: Why are hyperlinks blue?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 22 Days 6 Hours ago by: Richard Kettlewell

Probably not; the Multics user guide documents # as being used to delete input. http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/honeywell/multics/GB61-01B_OperatorsGde_Dec87.pdf

Re: thirty years ago

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 22 Days 7 Hours ago by: Andrei Z.

30 things you didn't know about the Linux kernel https://opensource.com/article/21/8/linux-kernel Sounds of the Compiling Linux Kernel https://youtu.be/4yMVkQRhiiQ https://github.com/Shizcow/SOTCLK

Re: Kubuntu for Pi-400

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 22 Days 8 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

"Kubuntu" is just Ubuntu with the K desktop/environment loaded in. You can make your own. Start with the most spare Ubuntu - command-line version - and proceed to load all the K goodies. I've been starting with Ubuntu Serve

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 22 Days 9 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Sometimes that IS the case. However if you're young and don't need sleep or food, sometimes you just start from scratch again, or again, assuming the boss is clueless as to what you're busy with. There IS value in trying

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 22 Days 9 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Won't risk it. Besides, I'm pretty sure I don't have a copy anymore. If there is one at the bottom of the stack it's on a 5 1/4 SS/SD floppy formatted in the CP/M-80 fashion. Fortunately I only had the briefest experiences

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 22 Days 12 Hours ago by: Charlie Gibbs

"If at first you don't succeed, you might as well forget it." That's why I agonize over design so much before I cast things in concrete. My translation of the above saying is: Consider your every move to be irrevocable. It usu

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 22 Days 12 Hours ago by: Dan Espen

Here is the existing emacs.service file on my system: [Unit] Description=Emacs: the extensible, self-documenting text editor [Service] Type=forking ExecStart=/usr/bin/emacs --daemon ExecStop=/usr/bin/emacsclient --eval "(ki

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 22 Days 14 Hours ago by: Carlos E. R.

I don't. I look at existing files.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 22 Days 15 Hours ago by: Richard Kettlewell

Yes, I have written a number. Go on then, explain how to write a unit file that actually does something useful, using only information in `man systemd.syntax`.

Re: Why are hyperlinks blue?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 22 Days 15 Hours ago by: Eli the Bearded

Yeah, # was a common choice of comment character before Python existed, so need to look back before Python. :r! stty -a |grep erase -echoprt -altwerase -noflsh -tostop -flusho pendin -nokerninfo erase = ^?; intr = ^C; kill = ^U; lnext

Re: Kubuntu for Pi-400

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 22 Days 18 Hours ago by: Dave

The code must be compiled for the ARM processor. Dave

Re: Kubuntu for Pi-400

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 22 Days 18 Hours ago by: Dave

To run on the Pi-400, the OS needs to be for the ARM processor. Dave

Re: Kubuntu for Pi-400

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 22 Days 20 Hours ago by: Anssi Saari

Is there any reason to think some specific porting work is needed? Kubuntu is just Ubuntu with KDE.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 22 Days 21 Hours ago by: Dan Espen

Yes it does. Of course that's a command line tool and not that hard to learn, but I'd expect the distro to be loaded with tools making use of the command line tool an exception rather than the rule. True, but then I'd consider cgroups

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 22 Days 21 Hours ago by: Dan Espen

"No idea"? Hardly. Have you looked? They seem pretty straight forward to me.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 22 Days 22 Hours ago by: Bud Frede

I was just thinking of exactly that. I worked at a place that used SunOS and then Solaris, and we kept our user IDs consistent throughout and then automounted our home directories. No matter what machine I logged into, I had my files wit

Re: Why are hyperlinks blue?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 22 Days 22 Hours ago by: Aragorn

Slightly educated guess: it may have been inherited from Multics.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 22 Days 22 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

Its like postscript and X windows. Designed to be able to do anything, but finally tamed by putting in shims to ensue that there is a way simpler API that only uses the useful 1% of the features... But they are standards and we are stu

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 22 Days 23 Hours ago by: Aragorn

Haters gonna hate, and some people simply have an irrational fear of change, even when "change" equals "better". <shrug>

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 22 Days 23 Hours ago by: Richard Kettlewell

That’s always been possible with automounting, since before Linux even existed. The only new thing here is that it’s integrated into init.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 22 Days 23 Hours ago by: Carlos E. R.

No :-) I only use a handful of commands or maybe less. systemctl and journalctl, that's it. :-)

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 22 Days 23 Hours ago by: J.O. Aho

One thing that systemd does which none of the other init systems (as far as I know) do set some things to be executed first when you need it, so by default nfs mounts aren't mounted at boot up, they are mounted first when you access th

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days ago by: Stéphane CARPENTIER

What about that? journalctl systemctl systemd-cryptenroll systemd-hwdb systemd-nspawn systemd-stdio-bridge systemd-analyze systemd-delta systemd-id128 systemd-path systemd-sysext systemd-ask-password systemd-detect-virt systemd-inhibit s

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days ago by: Carlos E. R.

.... cgroups, yes. I have used it and it is indeed useful and simple with systemd. Absolutely :-)

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days ago by: Carlos E. R.

I don't remember what was said at the time about upstart, but basically it was "no" :-) Me, at the time I preferred initd scripts. Easy to change /one/ script that misbehaves. But of course, each script was different with its own learnin

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days ago by: Carlos E. R.

You are right :-)

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days ago by: Carlos E. R.

That's it, absolutely.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days ago by: Richard Kettlewell

systemd.syntax is tiny indeed, but if that’s all someone reads they will still have no idea how to write or interpret a unit file.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days ago by: Bud Frede

Emacs anyone? :-) I'd also point to compression being added to tar with GNU tar. That compbined two programs into one. Not very "one program one function." There are plenty of non-GNU examples of UNIX things that don't adhere to "one p

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days 1 Hour ago by: Bud Frede

I'm sorry, but I've used Systemd on a much larger variety of distros, and a far wider variety of systems, desktops, servers, laptops, Raspberry Pi and Odroid SBCs, etc., and Systemd has been quite fast and has been more reliable, mostly

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days 1 Hour ago by: Dan Espen

It's the only visible user interface.

Re: X-post and follow-Up

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days 1 Hour ago by: Carlos E. R.

Certainly, me too. The two groups listed in this post are precisely just that.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days 1 Hour ago by: Richard Kettlewell

I have no idea why you’re focussing on the config file syntax, since there’s a lot more to systemd (or any nontrivial init) than that.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days 1 Hour ago by: Bud Frede

One of my friends did some testing way back when systemd was first being used, in Arch IIRC what he tested with. He found that systemd did indeed speed up the boot process vs. SysV init. I'm not sure that I can really offer any valid an

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days 1 Hour ago by: Bud Frede

Redhat was using upstart. That's arguably more persuasive than anything that SuSE was doing or not doing. :-)

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days 1 Hour ago by: Bud Frede

Especially the servers sometimes. If something is down, or if load skyrockets and it needs to autoscale, I very much want servers that boot fast. SysV init can be simple to use, for simple tasks. However, when you need something comple

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days 2 Hours ago by: Bud Frede

I'm kind of surprised that some people are still whinging about it. Systemd is what most distros are using and that's that. It isn't perfect, but it works and it has useful features that SysV init did not - features that I wanted and s

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days 2 Hours ago by: Dan Espen

Where is the user interface? With initd, it's that pile of scripts, each one a custom creation and a forest of symbolic links. Where is the learning curve compared to systemd's simple config file syntax? No one said ANYTHING about "no

Re: X-post and follow-Up

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days 2 Hours ago by: Bud Frede

I tend to leave the groups alone when replying to a cross-posted article, although I do remove things like the advocacy cesspools.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days 3 Hours ago by: Richard Kettlewell

A simple config file syntax doesn’t make a system easy to understand. There are thousands of lines of man pages containing over 160 options, with an implementation exceeding half a million lines of C. It’s not badly documented, but i

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days 5 Hours ago by: Andreas Kohlbach

Yes, but some software became "abandonware". Thus I assumed the software you wrote (and most importantly the company you did it for) is long out of business, thus no one would claim a copyright, as it seems to be the case for Wordstar by

Re: Why are hyperlinks blue?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days 5 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

Why not?

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days 7 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

I'm sure it DID have its uses, was VERY tempted in fact ... However my client at the time did NOT like the up-front costs - and only had about ten employees that would use it. The cost/benefit ratio wasn't good enough. So

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days 7 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

A number of Z80 boards were set up to handle at least one extra 64kb page of memory. It was a clunky, sometimes proprietary, paging system. Early DOS/86 wasn't much better. It's why the 68000 series drew so many fans with

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days 8 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Shit NO ! That was WAY Back In The Day and they were convinced DOS was just Flash-In-The-Pan fad. CP/M Forever And Always ! Besides, the contract stated that they, or their heirs/creditors, owned the source. Haven't you

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days 8 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Try using/developing-for ArcGIS. Everybody who does is pining horribly for the i15 12ghz dodecacore and a multi-teraflop Nvidia card. The need for local power has NOT gone away. In any case, "making it work" has become les

Re: Why are hyperlinks blue?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days 8 Hours ago by: Rich

Another possibility (for the Python specific question) is that Python simply copied the Unix shell's comment character, which is also a #. But then that just moves the question back to: Why do Unix shell comments begin with a "#"?

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days 12 Hours ago by: Allodoxaphobia

heh... I still have WordStar 6.0 running in DosBox on my Ubuntu system. I have it running both for a curiosity exercise and for the ability to print some old, specially crafted PCL files. I'll see if I can drag it along to its half-ce

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days 15 Hours ago by: Aragorn

So does the one in PCLinuxOS, but it's still SysVinit. It has simply been patched with parallel execution, and while it's definitely a lot faster than the original SysVinit, it doesn't come anywhere near systemd.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days 16 Hours ago by: Carlos E. R.

The initd system used in openSUSE also started services in parallel.

Re: Linux on a Chromebook

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days 17 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

That was not really my intention. My intention is to make the point that second hand quality is often better than new crap.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days 18 Hours ago by: Dan Espen

There should be no difference. Both schemes start services. Those services will run at the same speed regardless of how they are started.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days 19 Hours ago by: Stéphane CARPENTIER

The boot process is faster, it's obvious. But the boot process takes only the few first seconds of the time I'm using my computer. Once I'm using my computer, I have no idea about the way to compare the efficiency of SysV vs. systemd. Mos

Re: Kubuntu for Pi-400

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days 20 Hours ago by: Bobbie Sellers

Check out Manjaro, they have a port, I believe to RaspPi. Good solid distribution even if it uses systemd. bliss - boots & runs a Pretty Cool Linux Operating System aka pclinuxos.

Kubuntu for Pi-400

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days 20 Hours ago by: Dave

I was wondering if there are any plans to port Kubunto to ARM/Pi-400? Over the holiday I plan to update my Linux, and Kubuntu is near the top of the list. However, I also plan on giving a few Pi-400's as gifts, and it would be great if

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days 20 Hours ago by: Andreas Kohlbach

I didn't question that. :-) That was what Adam Osborn knew and put into reality. I think the first word processor was Electronic Pencil. "Everything" after are a clones. ;-) <https://news-commentaries.blogspot.com/2018/03/history-of-w

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days 21 Hours ago by: Andreas Kohlbach

Does this software still exist? Never had any (now vintage) hardware other than a Commodore 64 and Amiga. But thanks to emulation I can catch up with the past on machines I never owned but were a big part of the late 70s/early 80s (micro

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days 21 Hours ago by: Dan Espen

You should know it's faster everywhere based on it's design. It starts/stops services in parallel instead of serially. That's ALWAYS going to be faster.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 23 Days 21 Hours ago by: Dan Espen

Funny you should say systemd is not easy to understand. I can't imagine a simpler system. One file type for configuration with the simplest syntax possible, and just a few keywords to know about. What could be eliminated or simplified?

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 24 Days ago by: Stéphane CARPENTIER

Of course some services must be started before others. And systemd provide a way to do it. But the possibility to order some services doesn't force me to chose the order every service. You can say the logs must be started before everythin

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 24 Days ago by: Stéphane CARPENTIER

Exactly. And you forget everything the user don't need and is not aware of. But which are there in case he would need them. It's impressive the number of packages installed on a popular distro just to avoid the end-user the need to know w

Re: Why are hyperlinks blue?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 24 Days 2 Hours ago by: Carlos E. R.

Because that char was available. All languages I know chose one character or a combo to mark comments. They need it, some character that doesn't have already a meaning in the language. For example, Pascal used "(* ... *)", and later Turb

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 24 Days 3 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

You have to see it from the other angle, as I did running companies. When you had a mainframe. with serial terminals, if one user had a problem it was with a cheap terminal or a cable If everyone had a problem, it was with the one actu

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 24 Days 4 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

When you have seen and helped maintain one 386 PC running SCO unix with 30 serial terminals wired to it, run an entire company including spreadsheet, word processing database and accounts, you wouldnt baulk at the price. To replace th

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 24 Days 4 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

Cue why I said 'among the first' spreadsheets. Yes, visicalc was the killer app on Apple II and Quark Xpress with Photoshop was the killer app on MacOS 9 Supercalc was the CP/M clone. With Wordstar and Supercalc and a dot matrix printe

Re: Linux on a Chromebook

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 24 Days 4 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

its cheap and doesn't last? My real point was that refurbished computers are great value.Better value than new mass market chromebooks I can pick up a used computer for less than the cost of buying the processor in it. Bang for the

Re: Why are hyperlinks blue?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 24 Days 5 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

its been a convention in script languages for years. C uses // or /* .....*/ Assembler used ; ..... need something. # as good as anything else.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 24 Days 7 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

FAT/DOS *did* keep better track of things. Even FAT-12 was better than CP/M. Things advance, step by step. Though sometimes they advance towards a cliff ... And sometimes they advance in reverse ... the current trend to re

Re: Why are hyperlinks blue?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 24 Days 7 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Why do Python comments begin with a "#" ??? It's often "inventors priority" in these things. No actual REASON for it ... the HTML inventors just wanted links to stand out somehow. Blue looked nice ...

Re: Why are hyperlinks blue?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 24 Days 7 Hours ago by: Computer Nerd Kev

Quite interesting. That article didn't mention the IBM BookManager Library Reader for Windows which defaults to blue (without underline) for link text in the last release. That release shows a copyright year of 1994 in the "About" window;

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 24 Days 7 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Better Z80 systems used a few extra pins to implement paged memory (in a clunky fashion). So, at least 128k was not out of the picture. With programs often writ mostly in assembler, that was enough to do a LOT of neat stuff.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 24 Days 8 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

diskette, Unfortunately, binary files were exactly what I had in mind ..... Yes, you CAN do ASCII database records, even use the PICK-ish ascii-delimited structure (easy to READ, much more of a bitch to edit - lots of spe

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 24 Days 18 Hours ago by: Bobbie Sellers

Pioneering times for digital workers. CPM machines were rife and quite disk bound with only floppy drives, only about 64 K of memory so any application had to fit, pull in data from floppies and manipulate it. Priced for business, one

Re: Linux on a Chromebook

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 24 Days 19 Hours ago by: Andreas Kohlbach

4 GB would be enough for me. More important is the screen size. Should at least have a 15" display. Why is the ESSD nasty? I tested some in a shop and it felt fluid. No idea though how it would behave if Linux was installed.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 24 Days 19 Hours ago by: Andreas Kohlbach

Wasn't VISICALC the first commercial successful spreadsheet, which (first) only ran on an Apple ][? That was the first "killer app". Some people bought an Apple ][, only to have access to a spreadsheet! Crazy times.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 24 Days 22 Hours ago by: Marc Haber

Imagine you have a DNS server for your IPv6 VPN users, and the VPN server must be reachable over IPv6. That needs network, and the IPv6 setup to be finished (no more tentative addresses, that takes a few seconds), before starting the VPN

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 24 Days 22 Hours ago by: Marc Haber

Wrong argumentation. With the right distribution, an upgrade doesn't take four hours, and the services are not down the entire time. But, if my server takes 5 minutes for its POST, it doesn't matter when the OS boot takes. On the other h

Re: Linux on a Chromebook

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 24 Days 23 Hours ago by: Charlie Gibbs

a.k.a "Software as a Service" (SaaS) I find it ironic that the goal of the modern right-wing business establishment is the elimination of private ownership - the dream of Karl Marx. +1 The laptop I'm writing this on is a refurbished

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 4 Hours ago by: J.O. Aho

Sure systemd has come with some merits, but not everything has been great, as it do "eat up" other projects, which has lead to a number of serious security issues with a high exportability as it's been the pid 1 that been using them.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 5 Hours ago by: Carlos E. R.

You get charged per second of downtime. Not the only thing...

Why are hyperlinks blue?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 8 Hours ago by: Andrei Z.

Why are hyperlinks blue? https://blog.mozilla.org/en/internet-culture/deep-dives/why-are-hyperlinks-blue/

Re: Linux on a Chromebook

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 9 Hours ago by: Bobbie Sellers

You can buy very nice used and refurbished Dell, i5 or i7 laptops for a pittance (compared to new prices), I have an E6520, E6520, and my letest bought April 2020. E7450. These can keep up it seems though they burn a bit more energy

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 9 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

'Designed to sell, not to work'....

Re: Linux on a Chromebook

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 10 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

My take on this was that a second hand two year old quality ex business laptop would not only run linux 'out of the box', but was better specced for the same price as a new chromebook Uk prices for a new chromebook with 4GB ram and nast

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 11 Hours ago by: Charlie Gibbs

Hmm, I have an unopened copy of CP/M-86 version 2. I'll get it uploaded to Bitsavers someday. CP/M stored file sizes in 128-byte sectors. That's why that control-Z byte was introduced: so you could tell when you've hit the exact end o

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 11 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

No, the problem was that text files used a ctrl-z to mark EOF so you had to scan the last sector looking for it...and use that as your file size. For code files - executables - spare bytes at the end didn't matter. and ctrl-z was a vali

Re: thirty years ago

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 11 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

Redhat have IIRC over a hundred coders working on kernel and driver stuff which goes back into the FOSS pool. The may get income from support, but they spend it on code development Linux wouldn't be where it is without injectoions of pa

Re: Linux on a Chromebook

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 11 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Have no doubts, MS badly *wants* a return to the client/server + license fees paradigm. Every release edges further and further in that direction. Oh yea, since your "machine" and data really reside on MS servers it makes

Re: thirty years ago

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 11 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Well, RH and some others mostly sell "support", but they DO write their own stuff for smoothly interconnecting lots of other processors/boxes/storage even if those boxes are out in "the cloud" somewhere. "Big data" customizati

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 12 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

It's a remarkably good OS if you have for example a PC running instrumentation...pretty real time even if only single tasking, easy to write a custom interrupt based driver for to handle IO, and enough UI to allow a decent screen base

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 12 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

TCP/IP stacks existed in DOS back in the day. Used to sell them... No sure you would get one for a z80 running CP/M though - ISTR the smallest was around 45Kbytes

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 12 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Ah HA ! So if you wanted to append a file, you should have your records sized at some multiple of 128 ..... This is useful information. The young people do not realize how CP/M was *the* "business system" for quite a long

Re: Linux on a Chromebook

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 12 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

Translate: He challenges orthodoxies and group think, so must be 'cancelled'.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 12 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

Since its already been down for 4 hours for upgrades, what difference does 5 minutes make? I mean all this is so ACADEMIC. So ArtStudent™ hand wavy. IME the only thing that delays booting is the necessity of fsking the file system an

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 12 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

It's a shame you cant tell a criticism from a refutation of a claimed advantage

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 12 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Encryption is math ... but naturally you'd have to write your own stuff in those ancient systems. They didn't really do processes back then alas, everything was very linear. The IBM-C talks about what we'd call "semaphores

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 12 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

It can be done on an Arduino (probably easier on the Mega with more RAM). They DO make a network card, you CAN implement a (very VERY slow) web page. So, it can be done in DOS and even CP/M for sure.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 12 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Haven't seen that ... brought in a couple of my old Turbo programs and they all compiled and ran as expected. They included KB and disk i/o. The only thing that MIGHT be affected would be the built in time-delay ; I don't know

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 13 Hours ago by: Carlos E. R.

Unless, as is often the case, the distribution also upgraded everything, services and apps and libraries, with more features. Every upgrade of software bring better features, more code, bigger and slower. Not because of switching to syste

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 13 Hours ago by: Carlos E. R.

True. Equally important is not having to adjust everything on a new server to have it working, but just install and go. More time available for the real issues.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 16 Hours ago by: Stéphane CARPENTIER

s/Our Sytem/My message/

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 16 Hours ago by: Stéphane CARPENTIER

Agreed. I don't understand the need to have to chose the order of the services. Why should I care to now if my printer must be started before or after my webcam?

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 16 Hours ago by: Stéphane CARPENTIER

In fact, I'd say it's even more important for the servers. Because when you need to restart your server, you know you have a lot of people waiting for it to be available again.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 16 Hours ago by: Stéphane CARPENTIER

OK, you don't know what you are talking about. There are legitimate criticisms against systemd. This is not one of them. By design it's way easier to know what services are running.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 16 Hours ago by: Stéphane CARPENTIER

That part's easy to answer. The only thing he does is putting his name in the source files before compiling the kernel. Like that he believe he has his own kernel home made. It takes him a week: just in time to repeat the process with the

Re: Linux on a Chromebook

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 16 Hours ago by: Joerg Lorenz

TNP is killfiled here because of antisocial behaviour in other groups. This assumption is wrong because I do not do it = not everybody.

Re: Linux on a Chromebook

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 17 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

Pretty much how I did it But with a stingy budget, reconditioned ex company HP Pavilion was the best deal I needed a mic and camera as well. Didnt need SD, but installed normal SSD It's my travel laptop, so needs full comms. Screen i

Re: Linux on a Chromebook

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 18 Hours ago by: Eli the Bearded

Sometimes people killfile based on "all articles with message-ID X in references", which is a way to get all replies even as the debaters vary the subject. I don't do that in _this_ group, but I have done it. I'm also more likely to rea

Re: Linux on a Chromebook

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 19 Hours ago by: Andreas Kohlbach

That is your assumption (going back to English). The Natural Philosop did reply to it. What's the difference? I assume everybody who read here reads here, no matter if a subject change occurred or not.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 19 Hours ago by: Aragorn

A word of caution, though. I have no experience with VirtualBox, but if you're going to be running that TurboPascal 6.0 inside of it, then if possible, you'll have to set up VirtualBox to mimic a CPU with a clock speed below 200 MHz.

Re: Linux on a Chromebook (was: thirty years ago)

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 19 Hours ago by: Joerg Lorenz

Very much the same here. This time I ordered a new Dell machine with a preinstalled Ubuntu. I'll get it in the second half of September. Just a couple of weeks ago I "misused" my 2016 MacBook Air to install Mint. Works wonderful. A live

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 19 Hours ago by: Aragorn

Gosh, no -- that was a long time (and two desktop computers) ago. I used to be anti-systemd too, because I couldn't see its merits, and I guess I was just jerking my knee, like so many others. (I am only human (I think) and not above

Re: Linux on a Chromebook

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 19 Hours ago by: Joerg Lorenz

Nein. Viele haben sicher diesen Thread und damit den von Dir eröffneten Subthread abgehakt. Dein "Thread" ist thematisch extrem weit vom Originalthread weg. Neuer Thread = neue Leser Alter Thread mit Subject-Change /= neue Leser

Re: Linux on a Chromebook (was: thirty years ago)

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 19 Hours ago by: Eli the Bearded

Probably yes. Chromebooks seem to have pushed out all of the netbooks that I so loved, but seem slightly more difficult to re-OS and never seem to have great hard drive or RAM offerings. So I personally have avoided them. My method for p

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 20 Hours ago by: Dan Espen

Still have me on ignore? Good post, finally some reason on the subject.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 20 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

The disk formats were pretty crude, I think that's why there were ctrl-Z in text files to indicate the end. MS-DOS FAT was a little better, but this is all from very old memory...so may be misremembered

Re: Linux on a Chromebook

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 20 Hours ago by: Andreas Kohlbach

Nicht wirklich. ;-) I changed the subject. Thus creating a new topic would just be a technical issue in my opinion.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 20 Hours ago by: Tauno Voipio

CP/M had bookkeeping in 128 byte extents, not more accurate. The extent size was also the sector size of a basic single-density 8 inch diskette, with 77 tracks of 26 sectors each.

Re: Linux on a Chromebook

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 20 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

Well the title has changed. so it *sort of* is a new thread...

Re: Linux on a Chromebook

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 20 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

I wondered about that - rather like a tablet or smart phone but here is my best wet finger guess MS knows it lost te smart ]phoine and tablet war, so its buying up the cloud apps they use. Linux won the server wars and the minicomputer

Re: Linux on a Chromebook (was: thirty years ago)

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 20 Hours ago by: Joerg Lorenz

Wouldn't it be more appropriate and helpful to open a new thread for this topic?

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 20 Hours ago by: Andreas Kohlbach

MS-DOS did? I admit I have no idea, but always thought CP/M was superior to MS-DOS; even that MS-DOS was more or less a clone. And not forget CP/M was the first operating system for micros, running on many system architectures, as long as

Linux on a Chromebook (was: thirty years ago)

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 20 Hours ago by: Andreas Kohlbach

Everybody seems doing cloud today. Thus I didn't expect there would be a Windows 11. I assumed they would create some dumb client after Windows 10 to connect to their cloud instead. Similar to what Google did with Chrome OS, depending muc

Re: thirty years ago

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 20 Hours ago by: Andreas Kohlbach

CBM as in Commodore Business Machines? Can't remember what I was doing that day in 1991. I was 30 years younger though. ;-) Took until four years later I had my first "IBM compatible" and another three years after that to install my firs

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 21 Hours ago by: Aragorn

My PCLinuxOS system with SysVinit booted up from hitting Enter at the GRUB menu to a character-mode console login prompt in about 50 seconds. My Manjaro system with systemd boots up from hitting Enter at the GRUB menu to the SDDM login

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 21 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

No, I don't think he is Believer in Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming.. Indeed.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 21 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

Well in the end some people - due mainly to insecurity one supposes - move from purveyors of perspectives to Holders of the One True View. Philosophy teaches one true fact, that there are no 'true' facts. There are only inductive propos

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 25 Days 23 Hours ago by: Jasen Betts

It was a response in kind to the original post, and entirely justified. Correct me ig I'm wrong, bufrom from your response it seems that you also prefer superstition to science. If you don't want your idocies mocked don't post them to u

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 1 Hour ago by: Rich

JJ's response would be the "hmm, you don't think like me, therefore you must be _____" (pick your choice of "evil incarnate" for the blank). Far too many recently have fallen into a trap of forgetting (or possibly never understanding i

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 3 Hours ago by: Carlos E.R.

I recently migrated a cron job to a systemd timer (for leafnode). I didn't know how to do that, but fortunately the packager had already done that, just that the timer was not enabled. Then I wanted to change its timing, and I tried to

Re: X-post and follow-Up (Was: What's the best linux distro?)

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 3 Hours ago by: Carlos E.R.

That way you have half the posts of the thread in one group and half in the other, so that some people will not see yours.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 3 Hours ago by: Carlos E.R.

Which are being worked on or at least have hopes, not as the previous system.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 3 Hours ago by: Carlos E.R.

Me neither. Prove it. The source code is available to any. It is just FUD.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 4 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

TCP/IP stack?

Re: thirty years ago

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 4 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

MS will have worked out where its income lies, as IBM did when it realised the money wasn't necessarily in hardware or operating systems. Google has showed more enterprise than MS in terms of cloud level applications but Microsoft is in

Re: thirty years ago

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 4 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

I think it took a decade and a bit before Linux outperformed (in terms of what you could do on it, obviously it was always fater and nicer code) a windows desktop, as a desktop. As a server it was all pretty decent from the mid to late

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 4 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

And not a few due to adopting systemd...

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 4 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

Don't be silly. This is Usenet. Hate speech is all part of the fun, and probably de rigeur. Golly don't you remember the flame wars, way back when? And the final solution - the Kill File.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 4 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

Well I must say that is very antisocial of you. Did you get lost in someone else's Moral Maze?

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 5 Hours ago by: Richard Kettlewell

If you’re rolling your own, that’s fine, although doing it by hand rather than getting a computer to work it out for you seems rather strange. If you’re building a distribution, with a wide range of possible end user configurations

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 7 Hours ago by: Robert Latest

Please elaborate on the "spying" bit. Never heard of that.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 7 Hours ago by: Robert Latest

Of course I ended up using cron for the timed thing. But for processes I want to run permanently in the background, and that I want restarted upon a crash, with proper logging, without having to bother how to properly demonize them, syste

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 8 Hours ago by: Eli the Bearded

Check if it is at archive.org and if not, upload it. I see several versions of the Aztec C Compiler manual scanned. This looks like the earliest: https://archive.org/details/Aztec_C_1.05_User_Manual_Dec82 Not too hard, unless you need

HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 8 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Drifting around today I found a few interesting antiques on the net. One was DOS-6.22 ... and a Turbo Pascal 6 compiler that ran on it. Also got the MS Fortran/Pascal/COBOL and BASCOM for it. Even more interesting, remember when the IBM-PCs

Re: thirty years ago

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 9 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

The biggest things often start very small, hype-free. Strong rumors that Win-11 replaces a lot of the behind-the-scenes code with de-facto Linux, Win-12 will be almost entirely Linux tweaked into a look-alike/work-alike t

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 9 Hours ago by: Robert Riches

Jimmy Johnson, your post sounds like a threat of violence or other harm against TNP. I hope he prints a copy of your post to show to law enforcement if that becomes necessary.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 9 Hours ago by: Jimmy Johnson

Besides slowing a system down, spying and selling user info, what did systemd bring to the table? Systemd was a lie from the very beginning when they said over and over it was faster. Our $ystem is full of lie$.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 9 Hours ago by: Jimmy Johnson

I don't like you. There is nothing nice or good about Corporations or the rich owning Open Source or murder, you're nothing less than a $atan loving fool with no place to run and no place to hide, so don't be surprised when your day

Re: thirty years ago

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 13 Hours ago by: Bobbie Sellers

Oh I was 54 when Linus announced and I assure you it has been 30 years. It took me 15 years and the collapse of CBM to get into using GNU/Linux. Oh and thanks to Eli the Bearded for the reminder. bliss

Re: thirty years ago

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 14 Hours ago by: The Doctor

Yes BSD could have been bigger!

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 16 Hours ago by: Aragorn

Among other things that have already been addressed and that I shan't get into anymore, the kernel was offering many advanced possibilities to userspace that userspace wasn't making use of -- cgroups. And to the best of my knowledge, ev

Re: thirty years ago

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 18 Hours ago by: John McCue

Funny, remember the old days when one of the common questions was "What machine is Linus using ?". Then some people would try and get the same hardware :) 30 years, who would have thought!

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 18 Hours ago by: Carlos E.R.

Well, openSUSE was not about to use Ubuntu method :-p That's the point, no one chose to pursue it.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 18 Hours ago by: Carlos E.R.

Same here. You can use cron instead, you have both. At least I do.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 19 Hours ago by: Carlos E.R.

Me. I want booting my machines faster. Even the servers. In your opinion.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 19 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

now yes. two years ago, forget it

thirty years ago

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 19 Hours ago by: Eli the Bearded

First Linux announcement, 25 August 1991. From: torvalds@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Linus Benedict Torvalds) Newsgroups: comp.os.minix Subject: What would you like to see most in minix? Summary: small poll for my new operating system Me

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 19 Hours ago by: Bobbie Sellers

Because they see the featuritis of systemd as a complication to be avoided rather than sought. One program one function is the old GNU design criteria. bliss - boots & runs a Pretty Cool Linux Operating System aka pclinuxos. No to

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 19 Hours ago by: Richard Kettlewell

I’m not sure how you get to that from the above. Just pointing out that Carlos’s characterisation of the situation at the time decisions were being made wasn’t accurate. I’m not trying to bash anything here.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 20 Hours ago by: Dan Espen

So now it's "some other init system could be better". That's no way to bash systemd, you're supposed to attack the character of the lead developer.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 20 Hours ago by: Dan Espen

There is nothing about the design of systemd that would make your services run any different than they did before systemd, and there is no doubt that startup and shutdown are faster with systemd. So I reject your claim of slower. There

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 20 Hours ago by: jjb

But they didn't...

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 20 Hours ago by: Dan Espen

Oh here we go down that blind alley. I said it was faster, whether you appreciate it or not is irrelevant. Oh really? Do you know anything about system design? One file type, no forest of links, no utility to reconstruct the soft link

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 21 Hours ago by: Dan Espen

Bull, it was a f***ing mess. As I said, systemd faster, easier to understand, way more capable.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 21 Hours ago by: Dan Espen

initd still works on my Fedora system: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora/rawhide/system-administrators-guide/infrastructure-services/Services_and_Daemons/

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 21 Hours ago by: Richard Kettlewell

“Nothing else suitable” isn’t true at all. Disregarding the rather large set of toy/experimental inits, Upstart was already deployed in production Linux systems. Launchd would have needed porting for use on Linux but was (and still

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 21 Hours ago by: Robert Latest

I have a few NFS mounts to my local NAS on my systemd-running laptop without problems. Just a couple of lines in /etc/fstab, no scripts required. I find writing custom services is also a lot easier in systemd. Until once when I tried to

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 21 Hours ago by: Bobbie Sellers

Well certainly I suffer from vast areas of ignorance but GNU/Linux without systemd was/is faster and is/was more reliable than when I used systemd on Mageia 3.1. I started with Mandriva 2006. Before that I used Amiga computers from C

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 23 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

who needs to boot a server faster? when you only take it doiwn every few months and its down for at least a few hours while you mess aroujnd with it. Rubbish If you dont know what services are running on a machine or what they do, y

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 26 Days 23 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

The problem is that it obsoleted a lot of tried and tested ways of bringing stuff online. For example, before systemd my laptops had hard wired NFS mounts to my server in /etc/fstab. The nfs layer came up after networking by wifi, the

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 27 Days ago by: Carlos E.R.

Or easily modifying a distribution provided service file in a manner that it survives updates.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 27 Days ago by: Dan Espen

Systemd is unarguably faster. The user interface is way simpler than initd. The design of systemd makes a whole bunch of things possible that were never possible with initd. (Like actually being able to access a description of each serv

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 27 Days ago by: Carlos E.R.

Well, the later is arguable. Many were not happy, and initd had no maintenance or hopes of improvements, so they were looking for a replacement. It could have been systemd or something else, but there was nothing else suitable. So many

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 27 Days 1 Hour ago by: The Natural Philosop

Well on that I do agree. Goes completely against the principles of simplicity, transparency, and not doing stuff that was working perfectly well already

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 27 Days 2 Hours ago by: Richard Kettlewell

And you indulge him.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 27 Days 3 Hours ago by: Carlos E.R.

Oh, you must be new in these parts :-D F Russell is one of the local trolls, a fanatic. Linux has to be his way or it is evil. Systemd is evil. He likes a linux with basically no services, no init system, tailored solely for him. What

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 27 Days 3 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

I stick with one distro - Mint - because after messing around with many others, that proved optimal for *my desktop needs. It also runs on my local server. There is no need, but i am used to its foibles, and I likewise have Ubuntu on my

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 27 Days 8 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

PEOPLE !!! What's going on here ??? There IS NO "best" Linux distro. What's "best" depends ENTIRELY on what YOU plan to DO with it. And there's also all the BSDs too ... resurrected Amiga-OS, Plan-9, DOS, CP/M, emulated C-64s, OS-9...

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 27 Days 9 Hours ago by: SixOverFive

Then go back to Debian 1.0 .... Sorry, but reality is *complicated* ....

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 27 Days 23 Hours ago by: The Natural Philosop

Exactly. Linux runs my desktop and my servers. Its a bit like windows, only better, more stable, and cost nothing more than the effort of installing it . I dont give a rats ass about whether its FOSS or not. I care that it works, it's

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 28 Days ago by: F Russell

Where is your proof or example to the contrary? Without it your statement is purely empty. But my claims remain unassailable -- except to shallow and deluded idiots like you. "Troll" is one of the three words in your entire pathetic

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 28 Days 12 Hours ago by: Carlos E.R.

Sue them. Then why don't you create your's, and see how many want it?

Re: What's the best linux distro?

comp.os.linux.misc

Posted: 28 Days 14 Hours ago by: F Russell

Totally wrong. If one desires to install an alternative init system on Fedora it will be impossible. The distro is locked into systemd as are many others. Choice does not exist. Unless a distro specifically allows allows alternative

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