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computers / comp.os.linux.misc / Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

SubjectAuthor
* HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxEli the Bearded
|`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
| +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
| |`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
| | +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
| | |`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
| | | `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
| | |  `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
| | |   `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
| | `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxCharlie Gibbs
| `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxjak
+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
|`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
| `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
|  `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
|+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxTauno Voipio
||`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
|| `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  |+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxBobbie Sellers
||  ||`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  || +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  || |`- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  || `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  ||  `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  ||   +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  ||   |`- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  ||   `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxCharlie Gibbs
||  ||    `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  ||     `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxCharlie Gibbs
||  ||      `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  ||       `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxCharlie Gibbs
||  ||        `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  | `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  |  `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAllodoxaphobia
||  |   `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |    `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  |     `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |      `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  |       +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxRoger Blake
||  |       |`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxpH
||  |       | `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |       `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |        +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  |        |+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxBobbie Sellers
||  |        ||`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  |        || `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |        ||  +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  |        ||  |`- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |        ||  `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  |        ||   `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |        |`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |        | +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxScott Lurndal
||  |        | |`- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAhem A Rivet's Shot
||  |        | +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxJ. Clarke
||  |        | |+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAhem A Rivet's Shot
||  |        | ||`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxPeter Flass
||  |        | || `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxJ. Clarke
||  |        | ||  `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |        | ||   `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  |        | ||    +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxDennis Boone
||  |        | ||    |`- Re: real programmers, was HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxJohn Levine
||  |        | ||    +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxDavid W. Hodgins
||  |        | ||    |+- Re: fine old languages, HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxJohn Levine
||  |        | ||    |+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |        | ||    ||`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxCharlie Gibbs
||  |        | ||    || `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxDan Espen
||  |        | ||    ||  `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxJ. Clarke
||  |        | ||    ||   `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxCharlie Gibbs
||  |        | ||    |`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  |        | ||    | +- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxDavid W. Hodgins
||  |        | ||    | `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxRich Alderson
||  |        | ||    `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxJerry Peters
||  |        | |`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |        | | +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  |        | | |+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAhem A Rivet's Shot
||  |        | | ||+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  |        | | |||`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxgareth evans
||  |        | | ||| `* OT : Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxgareth evans
||  |        | | |||  `- Re: OT : Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  |        | | ||`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxCharlie Gibbs
||  |        | | || `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAhem A Rivet's Shot
||  |        | | |+- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxStéphane CARPENTIER
||  |        | | |`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxJ. Clarke
||  |        | | | `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |        | | |  `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxJ. Clarke
||  |        | | |   `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAhem A Rivet's Shot
||  |        | | `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  |        | +- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxQuestor
||  |        | `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  |        `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAnssi Saari
||  |         `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |          `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAnssi Saari
||  |           +- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  |           `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxTauno Voipio
||  |            +- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |            `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |             +- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  |             `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxTauno Voipio
||  `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
|`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAragorn
`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxCharlie Gibbs

Pages:12345
Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

<sh4h93$nhj$2@dont-email.me>

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2021 08:50:59 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Mon, 6 Sep 2021 07:50 UTC

On 05/09/2021 17:05, David W. Hodgins wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Sep 2021 04:47:51 -0400, The Natural Philosopher
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> COBOL was and is a damned good language for commercial programming: It
>> enforces a discipline on coding and can be used on machines with
>> extremely low RAM. It is extremely *efficient* in execution (though
>> massively wordy in source code) What it didn't have back them was  a
>> database language to run under it. I particularly liked an idea which I
>> believe it originated - and that is a formal way of specifying the data
>> structures - tables and fields - in advance. When building SQL style
>> applications this is massively useful even in a small project coded  by
>> a single person
>
>> Again, FORTRAN is a fully functional efficient compiled procedural
>> language. There is no need to 'improve' it.
>
> Then there was PL/1, which was basically a combination of Fortran and
> Cobol.
>
which turned out to be less handy.

ALGOL was also there, and IIRC that morphed into B, BCPL and then C..

> Regards, Dave Hodgins
>

--
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
....than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2021 08:58:30 +0100
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Mon, 6 Sep 2021 07:58 UTC

On 06/09/2021 05:53, SixOverFive wrote:
> The Apollo computers used "rope memory" - HAND assembled.
> This was basically ferrite-core memory, but assembled
> on loose wires so you could pack it into a small space.
> There WERE better solutions in the late 60s ... so I
> suspect a pork-barrel project ... indeed I seem to
> remember they were made in Texas - LBJs state

Core store is very radiation proof. And very shock and vibration proof

--
"It is an established fact to 97% confidence limits that left wing
conspirators see right wing conspiracies everywhere"

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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From: steveo@eircom.net (Ahem A Rivet's Shot)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2021 08:53:51 +0100
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 by: Ahem A Rivet's - Mon, 6 Sep 2021 07:53 UTC

On Sun, 05 Sep 2021 22:38:57 -0400
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 20:18:08 -0400, SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:
>
> >On 9/5/21 9:50 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> >> On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 09:38:56 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
> >> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 05/09/2021 06:40, SixOverFive wrote:
> >>>> Often, laziness was the Mother
> >>>>   Of All Invention - "This SUCKS ... how can I make
> >>>>   it easier/better ?".
> >>>
> >>> Which was pretty much Linus' attitude, and the rest, is history.
> >
> > I think Linus was also too broke to buy UNIX :-)
> >
> > So, BUILD YOUR OWN.
>
> I understand it started out making some improvements on Minix, and he
> improved right into a full blown Unix workalike.

The earliest story of the origin I read (sometime before 1.0) was
that he started with a clever idea for a more efficient context switch,
developed it under Minix and built out from there picking up fellow
travellers along the way to help round it out into enough of a unix kernel
clone to run GNU tools. The first working code was said to be two
processes one printing As the other Bs.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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From: tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid (Tauno Voipio)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2021 12:36:33 +0300
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 by: Tauno Voipio - Mon, 6 Sep 2021 09:36 UTC

On 6.9.2021 07:53 AM, SixOverFive wrote:
>
> The Apollo computers used "rope memory" - HAND assembled.
> This was basically ferrite-core memory, but assembled
> on loose wires so you could pack it into a small space.
> There WERE better solutions in the late 60s ... so I
> suspect a pork-barrel project ... indeed I seem to
> remember they were made in Texas - LBJs state  :-)
>

The rope memory was ROM. It used soft ferrite (transformer) cores.
A ferrite storage memory used square-loop (permanen magnet) cores.

There was as many cores as the memory bit width, each having a
secondary winding and a sense amplifier. The word lines were threaded
through a core for an one bit and around the core for a zero bit.
For reading, a word line was pulsed and the responses from the
bit lines stored to the data register. To save drivers, the word
lines were matrixed.

--

-TV

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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From: dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org (David W. Hodgins)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2021 11:16:55 -0400
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 by: David W. Hodgins - Mon, 6 Sep 2021 15:16 UTC

On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 03:50:59 -0400, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 05/09/2021 17:05, David W. Hodgins wrote:
>> On Sun, 05 Sep 2021 04:47:51 -0400, The Natural Philosopher
>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> COBOL was and is a damned good language for commercial programming: It
>>> enforces a discipline on coding and can be used on machines with
>>> extremely low RAM. It is extremely *efficient* in execution (though
>>> massively wordy in source code) What it didn't have back them was a
>>> database language to run under it. I particularly liked an idea which I
>>> believe it originated - and that is a formal way of specifying the data
>>> structures - tables and fields - in advance. When building SQL style
>>> applications this is massively useful even in a small project coded by
>>> a single person
>>
>>> Again, FORTRAN is a fully functional efficient compiled procedural
>>> language. There is no need to 'improve' it.
>>
>> Then there was PL/1, which was basically a combination of Fortran and
>> Cobol.
>>
> which turned out to be less handy.

Depends on the task. PL/1 supported 15 dimensional arrays. I don't remember if
Fortran did, but even if it did, PL/1 allowing better variable names to be
used allowing it to still be understandable. If a variable name exceeded 30
characters it took the first and last 15 characters. As long as that was unique,
it worked. COBOL was a max of 3 dimensions and a max of 30 character variable
names.

> ALGOL was also there, and IIRC that morphed into B, BCPL and then C..

I never used ALGOL, B, or BCPL, and only did a tiny bit of work in C.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

--
Change dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org to davidwhodgins@teksavvy.com for
email replies.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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From: news@alderson.users.panix.com (Rich Alderson)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Date: 06 Sep 2021 15:04:10 -0400
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 by: Rich Alderson - Mon, 6 Sep 2021 19:04 UTC

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:

> ALGOL was also there, and IIRC that morphed into B, BCPL and then C..

Order of invention was CPL, BCPL, B, and C.

There were jokes in the 1980s nad 1990s about the proper name for the next
language in the sequence: D, or P?

(Note that at least one object-oriented C successor named D was created.)

--
Rich Alderson news@alderson.users.panix.com
Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
--Galen

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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From: cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
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 by: Charlie Gibbs - Tue, 7 Sep 2021 20:12 UTC

On 2021-09-05, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

> On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 09:38:56 +0100
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 05/09/2021 06:40, SixOverFive wrote:
>>
>>> Often, laziness was the Mother
>>>   Of All Invention - "This SUCKS ... how can I make
>>>   it easier/better ?".
>>
>> Which was pretty much Linus' attitude, and the rest, is history
>
> More like Stallman's and before that a certain group at Berkeley
> and before that a handful of people at Bell and before that ...
>
> It's giant's shoulders all the way down, all stacked up like a
> circus pyramid.

With Bill Gates hacking away at the bottom...

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | They don't understand Microsoft
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | has stolen their car and parked
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | a taxi in their driveway.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Mayayana

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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From: cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
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 by: Charlie Gibbs - Tue, 7 Sep 2021 20:12 UTC

On 2021-09-06, SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:

> FORTRAN likewise is a perfectly good "sci/math oriented"
> language. STILL widely used, often because SO many great
> and powerful code snippets were writ back in the 60s and
> nobody wants to take the time to RE-write them in anything
> else.

As Stan Kelly-Bootle said in _The Devil's DP Dictionary_,

Yet FORTRAN gallops on, transportable as syphilis,
fired by a bottomless pit of working subprograms.

BTW has anyone else noticed that Newsguy has died?

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | They don't understand Microsoft
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | has stolen their car and parked
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | a taxi in their driveway.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Mayayana

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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From: dan1espen@gmail.com (Dan Espen)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2021 16:27:36 -0400
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 by: Dan Espen - Tue, 7 Sep 2021 20:27 UTC

Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:

> On 2021-09-06, SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:
>
>> FORTRAN likewise is a perfectly good "sci/math oriented"
>> language. STILL widely used, often because SO many great
>> and powerful code snippets were writ back in the 60s and
>> nobody wants to take the time to RE-write them in anything
>> else.
>
> As Stan Kelly-Bootle said in _The Devil's DP Dictionary_,
>
> Yet FORTRAN gallops on, transportable as syphilis,
> fired by a bottomless pit of working subprograms.
>
> BTW has anyone else noticed that Newsguy has died?

https://www.reddit.com/r/usenet/comments/ph9lde/newsguycom_whats_happening/

Bankrupt.

--
Dan Espen

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

<20210907220556.3525621f4abf5d537325ff6c@eircom.net>

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From: steveo@eircom.net (Ahem A Rivet's Shot)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
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 by: Ahem A Rivet's - Tue, 7 Sep 2021 21:05 UTC

On Tue, 07 Sep 2021 20:12:50 GMT
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:

> On 2021-09-05, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 09:38:56 +0100
> > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> On 05/09/2021 06:40, SixOverFive wrote:
> >>
> >>> Often, laziness was the Mother
> >>>   Of All Invention - "This SUCKS ... how can I make
> >>>   it easier/better ?".
> >>
> >> Which was pretty much Linus' attitude, and the rest, is history
> >
> > More like Stallman's and before that a certain group at Berkeley
> > and before that a handful of people at Bell and before that ...
> >
> > It's giant's shoulders all the way down, all stacked up like a
> > circus pyramid.
>
> With Bill Gates hacking away at the bottom...

Somewhere in the middle with Ken Dodd's tickling stick I think.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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From: jclarke.873638@gmail.com (J. Clarke)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Message-ID: <fspfjg5l1ast78075qrrq0p44e1coaigcj@4ax.com>
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Organization: Forte - www.forteinc.com
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Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2021 18:30:13 -0400
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 by: J. Clarke - Tue, 7 Sep 2021 22:30 UTC

On Tue, 07 Sep 2021 16:27:36 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>
>> On 2021-09-06, SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:
>>
>>> FORTRAN likewise is a perfectly good "sci/math oriented"
>>> language. STILL widely used, often because SO many great
>>> and powerful code snippets were writ back in the 60s and
>>> nobody wants to take the time to RE-write them in anything
>>> else.
>>
>> As Stan Kelly-Bootle said in _The Devil's DP Dictionary_,
>>
>> Yet FORTRAN gallops on, transportable as syphilis,
>> fired by a bottomless pit of working subprograms.
>>
>> BTW has anyone else noticed that Newsguy has died?
>
>https://www.reddit.com/r/usenet/comments/ph9lde/newsguycom_whats_happening/
>
>Bankrupt.

Shame, but they brought it on themselves. Too many outages--I finally
changed over to Forteinc. One of the things that annoyed me about
Newsguy was the periodic shutdowns when the moved their servers to a
new location--remind me of the kids who move to a different apartment
every time the lease is up.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
From: cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
References: <b164jgt5pl8tuuu7gs8s4gtjd6ldsf4tao@4ax.com>
<20210903195345.1fe658b46921b8bcfff7a36e@eircom.net>
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<7JPZI.75219$rl3.28398@fx45.iad> <sh8hvq$qhb$1@dont-email.me>
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 by: Charlie Gibbs - Wed, 8 Sep 2021 00:17 UTC

On 2021-09-07, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 07 Sep 2021 16:27:36 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> BTW has anyone else noticed that Newsguy has died?
>>
>> https://www.reddit.com/r/usenet/comments/ph9lde/newsguycom_whats_happening/
>>
>> Bankrupt.
>
> Shame, but they brought it on themselves. Too many outages--I finally
> changed over to Forteinc. One of the things that annoyed me about
> Newsguy was the periodic shutdowns when the moved their servers to a
> new location--remind me of the kids who move to a different apartment
> every time the lease is up.

Too bad. I've been with them a long time, and never noticed too many
outages. I dug through my stuff and in the configuration for Pan
(which I used to use to download from the binaries groups but haven't
used for several years) I found the login information for Astraweb.
Fortunately, that site and my account on it are still alive - so I'm back.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | They don't understand Microsoft
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | has stolen their car and parked
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | a taxi in their driveway.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Mayayana

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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From: jerry@example.invalid (Jerry Peters)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2021 02:04:16 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Jerry Peters - Thu, 9 Sep 2021 02:04 UTC

In comp.os.linux.misc The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 05/09/2021 07:14, SixOverFive wrote:
>> On 9/3/21 8:18 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Fri, 3 Sep 2021 13:59:26 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 03 Sep 2021 14:11:42 -0400
>>>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> and that idiot insisted that his students use
>>>>>> cards because that's what they'd be working with in the real world.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Reminds me of the A level computer science course I wished I hadn't
>>>>> taken - the year before it had been all about machine architecture,
>>>>> assembly language programming, data structures and algorithms, fun
>>>>> stuff.
>>>>> But I wasn't allowed to take it that year (because I was taking my O
>>>>> levels) I had to wait and take it the following year and so the
>>>>> course I
>>>>> got to take was COBOL, systems analysis and data validation and not
>>>>> what I
>>>>> had been looking forward to at all. But it was "what we'd be working
>>>>> with
>>>>> in the real world" or so I was told when I moaned about the change.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> COBOL programmers are still in demand, apparently.
>>>
>>> They are.  Unfortunately these days to get a job you have to move to
>>> India and be willing to work for an Indian wage.  It's a _good_ Indian
>>> wage mind you, I understand you can live comfortably on it, but it's
>>> below US minimum.
>>
>>   Know a guy who got a job fairly recently at a govt
>>   op ... one requirement was that he learn COBOL because
>>   they'd heavily invested in *perfect* COBOL apps way
>>   back in the day and would not, could not afford to,
>>   have them re-written in anything else. Important
>>   customized stuff like payrolls, scheduling ...
>>
>>   COBOL was a wonder-language back in the day, perfect for
>>   all kinds of biz apps and (sort of) self-documenting
>>   because of the quasi-natural-language code. Its "PIC"
>>   statement was great, could do everything printf() can
>>   do, help you out with format conversions and forms.
>>   It was assumed you were using TTY terminals and serial
>>   ASCII printers. There ARE a couple of COBOL development
>>   tools for Linux ... one, I think, will even set up
>>   tinted columns for the older, more anal, COBOL versions
>>   where you had to put certain codes in EXACTLY the
>>   right columns. DID make the compilers simpler ...
>>
>
>
> COBOL was and is a damned good language for commercial programming: It
> enforces a discipline on coding and can be used on machines with
> extremely low RAM. It is extremely *efficient* in execution (though

ROTFL, certainly *not* the IBM compilers. I had a habit of looking at
the generated code -- it was *horrible*. It was so bad that a company
called Capex wrote an optimizer for it. It greatly improved the
efficiency of the programs.

Jerry

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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 by: jak - Thu, 9 Sep 2021 19:56 UTC

Il 27/08/2021 02:57, SixOverFive ha scritto:
> On 08/26/2021 01:05 AM, Eli the Bearded wrote:
>> In comp.os.linux.misc, SixOverFive  <hae274b.net> wrote:
>>> Drifting around today I found a few interesting antiques
>>> on the net. One was DOS-6.22 ... and a Turbo Pascal 6
>>> compiler that ran on it. Also got the MS Fortran/Pascal/COBOL
>>> and BASCOM for it. Even more interesting, remember when the
>>> IBM-PCs first came out ? They came with TWO floppies -
>>> IBM-DOS and CP/M-86. The originals had CP/M 1.0 while the
>>> closely-following PC-XTs came with CP/M 1.10 ...
>>> got BOTH to run inside VirtualBox. Even found an ancient
>>> Aztec 'C' compiler that'll make CP/M executables AND
>>> the (rather extensive) manual.
>>
>> Check if it is at archive.org and if not, upload it.
>> I see several versions of the Aztec C Compiler manual scanned.
>> This looks like the earliest:
>>
>> https://archive.org/details/Aztec_C_1.05_User_Manual_Dec82
>>
>>> A decided Blast From The Past - fun, fun, fun ! Gotta
>>> find something cool to write for CP/M-86 ... mail server
>>> maybe ?
>>
>> Not too hard, unless you need encryption support.
>
>
>   Encryption is math ... but naturally you'd have to
>   write your own stuff in those ancient systems.
>   They didn't really do processes back then alas,
>   everything was very linear. The IBM-C talks about
>   what we'd call "semaphores" and other subprocess/
>   subthread related stuff so MAYBE it's possible
>   in DOS. I remember some "hotkey" programs that
>   absolutely ran as background processes ...
>
>

Sorry, just a clarification:
Hotkey activated dos programs, otherwise called TSR (terminate and stay
resident) programs, are not background processes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminate_and_stay_resident_program

>
>
>>> There are also ancient Linux versions out there, if
>>> you want to play. I bought the first one, RedHat I think,
>>> that had any kind of xorg GUI WAY on back. SUSE came
>>> along shortly afterwards and was better. May still
>>> have the floppies somewhere, but the download was
>>> easier.
>>
>> I remember playing around with MGR, a non-X11 GUI that came with my
>> first Redhat distro. (There was X11, too, but it was provided as
>> an alternative.)
>
>   Yea, X11 was "experimental" way back in the beginning,
>   and I recall it had lots of weird issues. Got better.
>   The first Linux I tried, I think I selected X11 mostly
>   because it "sounded cool" - had an "X" in it  :-)
>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ManaGeR
>>
>> I see no one has yet run it in emulation to provide a screenshot for
>> the article. Richard Kettlewell, in this group, answered my question
>> in 2012 when I said I remembered that program but couldn't remember
>> it's name. I noted the lack of screenshot in my reply then (message ID
>> <eli$1311091452@qz.little-neck.ny.us> ).
>>
>> Elijah
>> ------
>> betting no one has ported MGR to 64 bits, and that a port is needed
>>
>
>   Some things are destined to just fade away.
>
>   However I *know* that some DOS apps are still in use,
>   running in DOS with "older" hardware - one place has
>   a large old database it does NOT want to try and port
>   over to anything newer (a multi-value PICK-like DB
>   that doesn't fit the MSSQL flat-file schema very well).
>   Too much work. I think some places are even running
>   emulated System 360s because they have some vital
>   big old COBOL programs they just are NOT gonna pay
>   anybody to re-write. If it works ....
>
>   A year or two ago, DeGaulle airport in Paris had a
>   ground-traffic control problem. Turned out the box
>   running the custom app was WIN-3.11 Still working after
>   decades. Apparently they got it up and going again ...
>
>   Oh, and I came across an article recently on implementing
>   Unix-V on an emulated PDP-11, on a rPI ....
>
>   There's the "good old stuff", and then just "old stuff".

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