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computers / comp.os.linux.misc / Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

SubjectAuthor
* HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxEli the Bearded
|`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
| +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
| |`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
| | +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
| | |`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
| | | `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
| | |  `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
| | |   `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
| | `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxCharlie Gibbs
| `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxjak
+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
|`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
| `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
|  `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
|+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxTauno Voipio
||`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
|| `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  |+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxBobbie Sellers
||  ||`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  || +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  || |`- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  || `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  ||  `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  ||   +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  ||   |`- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  ||   `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxCharlie Gibbs
||  ||    `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  ||     `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxCharlie Gibbs
||  ||      `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  ||       `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxCharlie Gibbs
||  ||        `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  | `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  |  `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAllodoxaphobia
||  |   `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |    `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  |     `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |      `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  |       +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxRoger Blake
||  |       |`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxpH
||  |       | `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |       `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |        +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  |        |+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxBobbie Sellers
||  |        ||`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  |        || `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |        ||  +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  |        ||  |`- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |        ||  `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  |        ||   `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |        |`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |        | +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxScott Lurndal
||  |        | |`- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAhem A Rivet's Shot
||  |        | +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxJ. Clarke
||  |        | |+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAhem A Rivet's Shot
||  |        | ||`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxPeter Flass
||  |        | || `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxJ. Clarke
||  |        | ||  `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |        | ||   `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  |        | ||    +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxDennis Boone
||  |        | ||    |`- Re: real programmers, was HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxJohn Levine
||  |        | ||    +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxDavid W. Hodgins
||  |        | ||    |+- Re: fine old languages, HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxJohn Levine
||  |        | ||    |+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |        | ||    ||`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxCharlie Gibbs
||  |        | ||    || `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxDan Espen
||  |        | ||    ||  `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxJ. Clarke
||  |        | ||    ||   `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxCharlie Gibbs
||  |        | ||    |`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  |        | ||    | +- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxDavid W. Hodgins
||  |        | ||    | `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxRich Alderson
||  |        | ||    `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxJerry Peters
||  |        | |`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |        | | +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  |        | | |+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAhem A Rivet's Shot
||  |        | | ||+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  |        | | |||`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxgareth evans
||  |        | | ||| `* OT : Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxgareth evans
||  |        | | |||  `- Re: OT : Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  |        | | ||`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxCharlie Gibbs
||  |        | | || `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAhem A Rivet's Shot
||  |        | | |+- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxStéphane CARPENTIER
||  |        | | |`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxJ. Clarke
||  |        | | | `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |        | | |  `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxJ. Clarke
||  |        | | |   `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAhem A Rivet's Shot
||  |        | | `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  |        | +- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxQuestor
||  |        | `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  |        `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAnssi Saari
||  |         `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |          `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAnssi Saari
||  |           +- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  |           `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxTauno Voipio
||  |            +- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |            `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |             +- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  |             `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxTauno Voipio
||  `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
|`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAragorn
`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxCharlie Gibbs

Pages:12345
Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

<4vmdndlRB4Tf_an8nZ2dnUU7-cPNnZ2d@earthlink.com>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=7575&group=comp.os.linux.misc#7575

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Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
References: <fvCdnYI1nve7WLD8nZ2dnUU7-d_NnZ2d@earthlink.com> <877dg1vs0c.fsf@usenet.ankman.de> <v8-dnU5U95snarP8nZ2dnUU7-LnNnZ2d@earthlink.com> <87pmtstsvv.fsf@usenet.ankman.de> <1vSdnRrF6Iwvwa38nZ2dnUU7-N3NnZ2d@earthlink.com> <87fsumsteu.fsf@usenet.ankman.de> <jICdnW4qH7AGUaz8nZ2dnUU7-QPNnZ2d@earthlink.com> <b164jgt5pl8tuuu7gs8s4gtjd6ldsf4tao@4ax.com> <20210903195345.1fe658b46921b8bcfff7a36e@eircom.net> <601278435.652395486.631602.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> <brd5jg11h2sv67g34rh4kfghd64mvv8ndu@4ax.com>
From: hae274c.net@nowhere (SixOverFive)
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2021 02:14:26 -0400
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 by: SixOverFive - Sun, 5 Sep 2021 06:14 UTC

On 9/3/21 8:18 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Sep 2021 13:59:26 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 03 Sep 2021 14:11:42 -0400
>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> and that idiot insisted that his students use
>>>> cards because that's what they'd be working with in the real world.
>>>
>>> Reminds me of the A level computer science course I wished I hadn't
>>> taken - the year before it had been all about machine architecture,
>>> assembly language programming, data structures and algorithms, fun stuff.
>>> But I wasn't allowed to take it that year (because I was taking my O
>>> levels) I had to wait and take it the following year and so the course I
>>> got to take was COBOL, systems analysis and data validation and not what I
>>> had been looking forward to at all. But it was "what we'd be working with
>>> in the real world" or so I was told when I moaned about the change.
>>>
>>
>> COBOL programmers are still in demand, apparently.
>
> They are. Unfortunately these days to get a job you have to move to
> India and be willing to work for an Indian wage. It's a _good_ Indian
> wage mind you, I understand you can live comfortably on it, but it's
> below US minimum.

Know a guy who got a job fairly recently at a govt
op ... one requirement was that he learn COBOL because
they'd heavily invested in *perfect* COBOL apps way
back in the day and would not, could not afford to,
have them re-written in anything else. Important
customized stuff like payrolls, scheduling ...

COBOL was a wonder-language back in the day, perfect for
all kinds of biz apps and (sort of) self-documenting
because of the quasi-natural-language code. Its "PIC"
statement was great, could do everything printf() can
do, help you out with format conversions and forms.
It was assumed you were using TTY terminals and serial
ASCII printers. There ARE a couple of COBOL development
tools for Linux ... one, I think, will even set up
tinted columns for the older, more anal, COBOL versions
where you had to put certain codes in EXACTLY the
right columns. DID make the compilers simpler ...

And for the science types, FORTRAN. That's ALSO still
used. There are HUGE libraries of heavy-duty sci-related
code that NOBODY dares throw away and don't have the
time/budget to recreate. I remember having to translate
a FORTRAN stats collection into IBMPC BASICA ... long
"poke" lines for working the 8087 .... yuk !

Despite the similar-looking chip number, the 8087 was
NOT like the 8088 (or most any other microprocessor).
A very different paradigm. A couple years later the
compiler-makers all added '87 math libraries and that
made it all disappear, but BEFORE .... let's say I
was *thrilled* that Turbo Pascal included an '87
code switch - right when I had to write something that
did a lot of graphic transforms.

I'd suggest "Foley & Van-Dam Fundamentals Of Interactive
Computer Graphics" ... STILL worth looking at. That's how
it really gets done "under the hood".

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

<sh1vn0$nut$3@dont-email.me>

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2021 09:38:56 +0100
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Sun, 5 Sep 2021 08:38 UTC

On 05/09/2021 06:40, SixOverFive wrote:
> Often, laziness was the Mother
>   Of All Invention - "This SUCKS ... how can I make
>   it easier/better ?".

Which was pretty much Linus' attitude, and the rest, is history

--
“when things get difficult you just have to lie”

― Jean Claud Jüncker

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

<sh207o$sdd$1@dont-email.me>

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2021 09:47:51 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Sun, 5 Sep 2021 08:47 UTC

On 05/09/2021 07:14, SixOverFive wrote:
> On 9/3/21 8:18 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Fri, 3 Sep 2021 13:59:26 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 03 Sep 2021 14:11:42 -0400
>>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> and that idiot insisted that his students use
>>>>> cards because that's what they'd be working with in the real world.
>>>>
>>>>     Reminds me of the A level computer science course I wished I hadn't
>>>> taken - the year before it had been all about machine architecture,
>>>> assembly language programming, data structures and algorithms, fun
>>>> stuff.
>>>> But I wasn't allowed to take it that year (because I was taking my O
>>>> levels) I had to wait and take it the following year and so the
>>>> course I
>>>> got to take was COBOL, systems analysis and data validation and not
>>>> what I
>>>> had been looking forward to at all. But it was "what we'd be working
>>>> with
>>>> in the real world" or so I was told when I moaned about the change.
>>>>
>>>
>>> COBOL programmers are still in demand, apparently.
>>
>> They are.  Unfortunately these days to get a job you have to move to
>> India and be willing to work for an Indian wage.  It's a _good_ Indian
>> wage mind you, I understand you can live comfortably on it, but it's
>> below US minimum.
>
>   Know a guy who got a job fairly recently at a govt
>   op ... one requirement was that he learn COBOL because
>   they'd heavily invested in *perfect* COBOL apps way
>   back in the day and would not, could not afford to,
>   have them re-written in anything else. Important
>   customized stuff like payrolls, scheduling ...
>
>   COBOL was a wonder-language back in the day, perfect for
>   all kinds of biz apps and (sort of) self-documenting
>   because of the quasi-natural-language code. Its "PIC"
>   statement was great, could do everything printf() can
>   do, help you out with format conversions and forms.
>   It was assumed you were using TTY terminals and serial
>   ASCII printers. There ARE a couple of COBOL development
>   tools for Linux ... one, I think, will even set up
>   tinted columns for the older, more anal, COBOL versions
>   where you had to put certain codes in EXACTLY the
>   right columns. DID make the compilers simpler ...
>

COBOL was and is a damned good language for commercial programming: It
enforces a discipline on coding and can be used on machines with
extremely low RAM. It is extremely *efficient* in execution (though
massively wordy in source code) What it didn't have back them was a
database language to run under it. I particularly liked an idea which I
believe it originated - and that is a formal way of specifying the data
structures - tables and fields - in advance. When building SQL style
applications this is massively useful even in a small project coded by
a single person

> And for the science types, FORTRAN. That's ALSO still
> used. There are HUGE libraries of heavy-duty sci-related
> code that NOBODY dares throw away and don't have the
> time/budget to recreate. I remember having to translate
> a FORTRAN stats collection into IBMPC BASICA ... long
> "poke" lines for working the 8087 .... yuk !
>
> Despite the similar-looking chip number, the 8087 was
> NOT like the 8088 (or most any other microprocessor).
> A very different paradigm. A couple years later the
> compiler-makers all added '87 math libraries and that
> made it all disappear, but BEFORE .... let's say I
> was *thrilled* that Turbo Pascal included an '87
> code switch - right when I had to write something that
> did a lot of graphic transforms.
>
> I'd suggest "Foley & Van-Dam Fundamentals Of Interactive
> Computer Graphics" ... STILL worth looking at. That's how
> it really gets done "under the hood".

Again, FORTRAN is a fully functional efficient compiled procedural
language. There is no need to 'improve' it.

The IT world gota lot worse when computer scientists started writing
languages. They just couldn't keep it simple. They had to show off.

Hence 'object oriented' rubbish and 'operator overloading' - sheesh the
worst idea EVER. Making a expresssion symbol dependent on the context in
which its being used.

--
“when things get difficult you just have to lie” ― Jean Claud Jüncker

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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From: steveo@eircom.net (Ahem A Rivet's Shot)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2021 10:49:59 +0100
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 by: Ahem A Rivet's - Sun, 5 Sep 2021 09:49 UTC

On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 09:38:56 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 05/09/2021 06:40, SixOverFive wrote:
> > Often, laziness was the Mother
> >   Of All Invention - "This SUCKS ... how can I make
> >   it easier/better ?".
>
> Which was pretty much Linus' attitude, and the rest, is history

More like Stallman's and before that a certain group at Berkeley
and before that a handful of people at Bell and before that ...

It's giant's shoulders all the way down, all stacked up like a
circus pyramid.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

<slrnsj962d.2im.sc@scarpet42p.localdomain>

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From: sc@fiat-linux.fr (Stéphane CARPENTIER)
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
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 by: Stéphane CARPENTIER - Sun, 5 Sep 2021 10:13 UTC

Le 05-09-2021, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> a écrit :
> On 05/09/2021 06:40, SixOverFive wrote:
>> Often, laziness was the Mother
>>   Of All Invention - "This SUCKS ... how can I make
>>   it easier/better ?".
>
> Which was pretty much Linus' attitude, and the rest, is history

No, Linus' attitude was more "I want to have fun, do you want to have
fun too?"

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2021 11:22:00 +0100
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Sun, 5 Sep 2021 10:22 UTC

On 05/09/2021 10:49, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 09:38:56 +0100
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 05/09/2021 06:40, SixOverFive wrote:
>>> Often, laziness was the Mother
>>>   Of All Invention - "This SUCKS ... how can I make
>>>   it easier/better ?".
>>
>> Which was pretty much Linus' attitude, and the rest, is history
>
> More like Stallman's and before that a certain group at Berkeley
> and before that a handful of people at Bell and before that ...
>
> It's giant's shoulders all the way down, all stacked up like a
> circus pyramid.
>
And then you get Computer Scientists, and their attitude is 'this is too
easy/simple, how can we make it more complicated?'

--
There’s a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons
that sound good.

Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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From: headstone255@yahoo.com (gareth evans)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2021 11:31:27 +0100
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 by: gareth evans - Sun, 5 Sep 2021 10:31 UTC

On 05/09/2021 11:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 05/09/2021 10:49, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 09:38:56 +0100
>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 05/09/2021 06:40, SixOverFive wrote:
>>>> Often, laziness was the Mother
>>>> Of All Invention - "This SUCKS ... how can I make
>>>> it easier/better ?".
>>>
>>> Which was pretty much Linus' attitude, and the rest, is history
>>
>> More like Stallman's and before that a certain group at Berkeley
>> and before that a handful of people at Bell and before that ...
>>
>> It's giant's shoulders all the way down, all stacked up like a
>> circus pyramid.
>>
> And then you get Computer Scientists, and their attitude is 'this is too
> easy/simple, how can we make it more complicated?'
>

AIUI, you failed your Computer Science PhD assessment if you used,
"very" instead of, "highly".

OT : Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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From: headstone255@yahoo.com (gareth evans)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: OT : Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
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 by: gareth evans - Sun, 5 Sep 2021 10:38 UTC

On 05/09/2021 11:31, gareth evans wrote:
>
> AIUI, you failed your Computer Science PhD assessment if you used,
> "very" instead of, "highly".

Sorry, an afterthought ... I thought that to get a PhD you had to
either invent something or else discover something previously
unfathomable but the plague of PhDs awarded these days do not
seem to be accompanied by widespread increases of knowledge
or developments in technology.

Re: OT : Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: OT : Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2021 12:15:23 +0100
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Sun, 5 Sep 2021 11:15 UTC

On 05/09/2021 11:38, gareth evans wrote:
> On 05/09/2021 11:31, gareth evans wrote:
>>
>> AIUI, you failed your Computer Science PhD assessment if you used,
>> "very" instead of, "highly".
>
> Sorry, an afterthought ... I thought that to get a PhD you had to
> either invent something or else discover something previously
> unfathomable but the plague of PhDs awarded these days do not
> seem to be accompanied by widespread increases of knowledge
> or developments in technology.
>
>
No, you just have to write some impenetrable gobbledygook and get a chum
to peer review it.

"The influence of Patriarchal Modality on the development of unconscious
homophobia in the Victorian institution' etc etc

Clever people strive to make difficult stuff easy to understand.
Not so clever people strive to make simple stuff more complicated so
only they can understand it, and thus preserve their status and their
careers

As a wonderful example of prime communist blatherskite Eric Hobsbawn is
the go-to idiot

“The test of a progressive policy is not private but public, not just
rising income and consumption for individuals, but widening the
opportunities and what Amartya Sen calls the 'capabilities' of all
through collective action. But that means, it must mean, public
non-profit initiative, even if only in redistributing private
accumulation. Public decisions aimed at collective social improvement
from which all human lives should gain. That is the basis of progressive
policy—not maximising economic growth and personal incomes. Nowhere will
this be more important than in tackling the greatest problem facing us
this century, the environmental crisis. Whatever ideological logo we
choose for it, it will mean a major shift away from the free market and
towards public action, a bigger shift than the British government has
yet envisaged. And, given the acuteness of the economic crisis, probably
a fairly rapid shift. Time is not on our side.”

― Eric Hobsbawm

Contrast Scruton

“When, in the works of Lacan, Deleuze and Althusser, the nonsense
machine began to crank out its impenetrable sentences, of which nothing
could be understood except that they all had “capitalism” as their
target, it looked as though Nothing had at last found its voice.”
― Roger Scruton, Thinkers Of The New Left

“The greatest task on the right, therefore, is to rescue the language of
politics: to put within our grasp what has been forcibly removed from it
by jargon.”
― Roger Scruton, Fools, Frauds and Firebrands: Thinkers of the New Left

--
WOKE is an acronym... Without Originality, Knowledge or Education.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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From: as@sci.fi (Anssi Saari)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2021 15:25:28 +0300
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 by: Anssi Saari - Sun, 5 Sep 2021 12:25 UTC

SixOverFive <hae274c.net> writes:

> Well, Java is a "virtual machine". You write an
> interpreter for each platform and then your Java
> runs on ALL of them.

Yes, I see the connection now to terminal emulators. Well, it seemed a
little unlikely to me Java would have much in the way of originality so
I looked around for precedents.

The result is, the UCSD p-system was probably the first "write once run
anywhere" system. It's from the 1970s. It was actually ported to the
usual CPUs of the time, Z80 and 6502 and 68k and 8086 CPUs. It was even
a free option for the original IBM PCs apparently and and the Apple II
version apparently sold quite a lot for the time.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2021 14:03:53 +0100
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Sun, 5 Sep 2021 13:03 UTC

On 05/09/2021 13:25, Anssi Saari wrote:
> SixOverFive <hae274c.net> writes:
>
>> Well, Java is a "virtual machine". You write an
>> interpreter for each platform and then your Java
>> runs on ALL of them.
>
> Yes, I see the connection now to terminal emulators. Well, it seemed a
> little unlikely to me Java would have much in the way of originality so
> I looked around for precedents.
>
> The result is, the UCSD p-system was probably the first "write once run
> anywhere" system. It's from the 1970s. It was actually ported to the
> usual CPUs of the time, Z80 and 6502 and 68k and 8086 CPUs. It was even
> a free option for the original IBM PCs apparently and and the Apple II
> version apparently sold quite a lot for the time.
>
BASIC
FORTH

All interpreters like P code and from earlier

--
Climate is what you expect but weather is what you get.
Mark Twain

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From: jclarke.873638@gmail.com (J. Clarke)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
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 by: J. Clarke - Sun, 5 Sep 2021 13:50 UTC

On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 09:38:56 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 05/09/2021 06:40, SixOverFive wrote:
>> Often, laziness was the Mother
>>   Of All Invention - "This SUCKS ... how can I make
>>   it easier/better ?".
>
>Which was pretty much Linus' attitude, and the rest, is history

Works for me. The two that go with it are that "it is easier to gain
forgiveness than permission" and "initiative is when you did something
you weren't supposed to do and it turned out good".

Much of my work is boring and annoying. When I get annoyed I automate
whatever is annoying me.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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From: drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone)
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
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 by: Dennis Boone - Sun, 5 Sep 2021 15:00 UTC

> COBOL was and is a damned good language for commercial programming: It
> enforces a discipline on coding

Hah. You can write bad code in any language, and CObOL gives you
plenty of rope. ALTER clause anyone?

De

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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From: ank@spamfence.net (Andreas Kohlbach)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
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X-Face-What-Is-It: Capture Bee from Galaga
 by: Andreas Kohlbach - Sun, 5 Sep 2021 16:22 UTC

On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 01:40:06 -0400, SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:
>
> On 9/3/21 2:11 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> Some professors are like that. I remember helping an undergrad find
>> the keypunch (I was a computer science grad student and I didn't even
>> know the school _had_ a keypunch or card reader until that came up).
>> Seems he was taking a programming course from somebody in the
>> chemistry department and that idiot insisted that his students use
>> cards because that's what they'd be working with in the real world. I
>> ended up having to go dig up an operator.
>
>
> PART of the problem is that the computer world was
> evolving SO fast back then. What was State Of The
> Art one year was Obsolete Crap the next.

I think that is only true until the mid 80s. From 1971 to around 1984 the
address/data bus size of a (microprocessor based) CPU doubled several
times to 32-Bit. Since around 2000 mainstream hardware is stuck at
64-bit.

Today it's more RAM, faster CPU, more RAM, faster CPU... - how
boring. That should only change once Quantum-Computing becomes
mainstream.
--
Andreas

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
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 by: Tauno Voipio - Sun, 5 Sep 2021 16:27 UTC

On 5.9.21 15.25, Anssi Saari wrote:
> SixOverFive <hae274c.net> writes:
>
>> Well, Java is a "virtual machine". You write an
>> interpreter for each platform and then your Java
>> runs on ALL of them.
>
> Yes, I see the connection now to terminal emulators. Well, it seemed a
> little unlikely to me Java would have much in the way of originality so
> I looked around for precedents.
>
> The result is, the UCSD p-system was probably the first "write once run
> anywhere" system. It's from the 1970s. It was actually ported to the
> usual CPUs of the time, Z80 and 6502 and 68k and 8086 CPUs. It was even
> a free option for the original IBM PCs apparently and and the Apple II
> version apparently sold quite a lot for the time.
>

The p-code is a bit older. AFAIK, it was first used in the first Pascal
compiler system made at the ETH (Eidgenössische Technische Hohscule) in
Zurich, by Urs Ammann, Christian Jacobi and Kesav Nori under direction
of professor Niklaus Wirth.

The UCSD team took it from the Zurich system.

--

-TV

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Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
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 by: David W. Hodgins - Sun, 5 Sep 2021 16:05 UTC

On Sun, 05 Sep 2021 04:47:51 -0400, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> COBOL was and is a damned good language for commercial programming: It
> enforces a discipline on coding and can be used on machines with
> extremely low RAM. It is extremely *efficient* in execution (though
> massively wordy in source code) What it didn't have back them was a
> database language to run under it. I particularly liked an idea which I
> believe it originated - and that is a formal way of specifying the data
> structures - tables and fields - in advance. When building SQL style
> applications this is massively useful even in a small project coded by
> a single person

> Again, FORTRAN is a fully functional efficient compiled procedural
> language. There is no need to 'improve' it.

Then there was PL/1, which was basically a combination of Fortran and Cobol.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

--
Change dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org to davidwhodgins@teksavvy.com for
email replies.

Re: fine old languages, HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: fine old languages, HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2021 22:20:43 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: John Levine - Sun, 5 Sep 2021 22:20 UTC

According to David W. Hodgins <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org>:
>> Again, FORTRAN is a fully functional efficient compiled procedural
>> language. There is no need to 'improve' it.
>
>Then there was PL/1, which was basically a combination of Fortran and Cobol.

It also had a fair amount of Algol mixed in to give it block structure and recursion.

Considering that PL/I was invented by a committee at IBM under intense time pressure
to ship and all-purpose language to use on their all-purpose S/360 mainframes, it's
a remarkably good language. Sixty years later we can see some of the mistakes like
the wild abandon with which you can mix datatypes, but they got a lot of it right.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

Re: real programmers, was HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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Subject: Re: real programmers, was HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
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 by: John Levine - Sun, 5 Sep 2021 22:16 UTC

According to Dennis Boone <drb@ihatespam.msu.edu>:
> > COBOL was and is a damned good language for commercial programming: It
> > enforces a discipline on coding
>
>Hah. You can write bad code in any language, and CObOL gives you
>plenty of rope. ALTER clause anyone?

No worse than the Fortran assigned GOTO. Sensible programmers stopped using them
as soon as there were other ways to write subroutines, like about 1962.

Academincs sneered at COBOL because it was so wordy and looked like pseudo-English
but it had a lot of good ideas that modern programmers have no idea originated there.

C structures and C++ class data structures are COBOL data (via PL/I
which got them from COBOL and uses essentially the COBOL syntax.) The
COBOL report writer was one of the first uses of coroutines but
unfortunately few COBOL programmers understood it well enough to use
it effectively.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
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From: hae274c.net@nowhere (SixOverFive)
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 by: SixOverFive - Mon, 6 Sep 2021 00:14 UTC

On 9/5/21 12:27 PM, Tauno Voipio wrote:
> On 5.9.21 15.25, Anssi Saari wrote:
>> SixOverFive <hae274c.net> writes:
>>
>>>    Well, Java is a "virtual machine". You write an
>>>    interpreter for each platform and then your Java
>>>    runs on ALL of them.
>>
>> Yes, I see the connection now to terminal emulators. Well, it seemed a
>> little unlikely to me Java would have much in the way of originality so
>> I looked around for precedents.
>>
>> The result is, the UCSD p-system was probably the first "write once run
>> anywhere" system. It's from the 1970s. It was actually ported to the
>> usual CPUs of the time, Z80 and 6502 and 68k and 8086 CPUs. It was even
>> a free option for the original IBM PCs apparently and and the Apple II
>> version apparently sold quite a lot for the time.
>>
>
> The p-code is a bit older. AFAIK, it was first used in the first Pascal
> compiler system made at the ETH (Eidgenössische Technische Hohscule) in
> Zurich, by Urs Ammann, Christian Jacobi and Kesav Nori under direction
> of professor Niklaus Wirth.
>
> The UCSD team took it from the Zurich system.

I'm sure the IDEA of "Write once - run it anywhere" went
back even before Wirth. However the HARDWARE may not have
been up to it. Those VMs/code-interpreters use up memory
and storage space. Older computers hardly HAD any memory
and "storage" was big reels of mag-tape that was REALLY
slow to read/write.

In the late 60s I saw a museum exhibit on 'modern tech
wonders'. ONE was an IBM system/360 (maybe 370) with
a cool "deskset" - yes it was the size of a desk. Next
to the CPU box was a shiny box about a meter cube. That
was the RAM ... I think it was a whopping 3 kilobytes !
At of least 12x3k ferrite doughnuts strung in a matrix
of wires - probably assembled by hand :-)

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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 by: SixOverFive - Mon, 6 Sep 2021 00:18 UTC

On 9/5/21 9:50 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 09:38:56 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 05/09/2021 06:40, SixOverFive wrote:
>>> Often, laziness was the Mother
>>>   Of All Invention - "This SUCKS ... how can I make
>>>   it easier/better ?".
>>
>> Which was pretty much Linus' attitude, and the rest, is history.

I think Linus was also too broke to buy UNIX :-)

So, BUILD YOUR OWN.

>
> Works for me. The two that go with it are that "it is easier to gain
> forgiveness than permission" and "initiative is when you did something
> you weren't supposed to do and it turned out good".
>
> Much of my work is boring and annoying. When I get annoyed I automate
> whatever is annoying me.

The only way to stay sane. Often the automation work
is MUCH more interesting than whatever project you're
automating :-)

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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 by: SixOverFive - Mon, 6 Sep 2021 00:29 UTC

On 9/1/21 3:52 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 01/09/2021 05:13, SixOverFive wrote:
>> Do they still make "fuse" PROMS ? Even better ... you
>>    don't re-write THOSE :-)
>
> well FPGAS are sort of usable as that design your won processor and its
> microcode...

Do any of them still use fusible link memory ? I'll have
to check. My guess is "no" - it's all "field RE-programmable"
these days.

I did get a hit for more traditional fusible-link chips, they
CAN still be purchased. Most are measured in BYTES though,
a few had KBs. If it just HAS to work, just HAS to be
unchangable, those are your ticket. Wouldn't be surprised
if the bootstrap in some of those space probes use that
kind of memory. Radiation/heat/cold isn't going to do much
to those little metal wires.

Never got into FPGAs for some reason, though they are
pretty neat. Guess there was never a NEED in the stuff
I was doing. It'd be cool to emulate certain old CPUs
using them - or "improve" on them. How about a 64-bit
PDP-11 ? :-)

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
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 by: J. Clarke - Mon, 6 Sep 2021 02:38 UTC

On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 20:18:08 -0400, SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:

>On 9/5/21 9:50 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 09:38:56 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 05/09/2021 06:40, SixOverFive wrote:
>>>> Often, laziness was the Mother
>>>>   Of All Invention - "This SUCKS ... how can I make
>>>>   it easier/better ?".
>>>
>>> Which was pretty much Linus' attitude, and the rest, is history.
>
> I think Linus was also too broke to buy UNIX :-)
>
> So, BUILD YOUR OWN.

I understand it started out making some improvements on Minix, and he
improved right into a full blown Unix workalike.
>> Works for me. The two that go with it are that "it is easier to gain
>> forgiveness than permission" and "initiative is when you did something
>> you weren't supposed to do and it turned out good".
>>
>> Much of my work is boring and annoying. When I get annoyed I automate
>> whatever is annoying me.
>
> The only way to stay sane. Often the automation work
> is MUCH more interesting than whatever project you're
> automating :-)

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
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From: hae274c.net@nowhere (SixOverFive)
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2021 23:00:03 -0400
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 by: SixOverFive - Mon, 6 Sep 2021 03:00 UTC

On 9/5/21 12:05 PM, David W. Hodgins wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Sep 2021 04:47:51 -0400, The Natural Philosopher
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> COBOL was and is a damned good language for commercial programming: It
>> enforces a discipline on coding and can be used on machines with
>> extremely low RAM. It is extremely *efficient* in execution (though
>> massively wordy in source code) What it didn't have back them was  a
>> database language to run under it. I particularly liked an idea which I
>> believe it originated - and that is a formal way of specifying the data
>> structures - tables and fields - in advance. When building SQL style
>> applications this is massively useful even in a small project coded  by
>> a single person
>
>> Again, FORTRAN is a fully functional efficient compiled procedural
>> language. There is no need to 'improve' it.
>
> Then there was PL/1, which was basically a combination of Fortran and
> Cobol.
>
> Regards, Dave Hodgins
>

Found an DR-PL/I compiler image that'll run in
a DosBox or VirtualBox DOS environment. No MANUAL
though. There was no such thing as a "standard
implementation" back then (and hardly NOW) so
you need an DR-PL/I manual to effectively use
DR-PL/I.

PL/I always seemed to be a bit of a "kitchen sink"
language - you could spot bits of several, even BASIC,
in there. There were several viable approaches to
every task ... which ain't terrible.

Anyway, except for the wordiness and a few annoying quirks,
COBOL really is a perfectly viable language for commercial
programming. It does what you need to be done. Certainly
not "visual" though, however I really don't like Object
Oriented (still always write basically K&R 'C') so I don't
miss THAT in COBOL.

FORTRAN likewise is a perfectly good "sci/math oriented"
language. STILL widely used, often because SO many great
and powerful code snippets were writ back in the 60s and
nobody wants to take the time to RE-write them in anything
else.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
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From: hae274c.net@nowhere (SixOverFive)
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 by: SixOverFive - Mon, 6 Sep 2021 04:53 UTC

Oh yea, they DID have "hard disks" back in the day.

These were 5-10 brownish platters in a pack. You'd open
something about the size of a diswasher and stick the
pack in, turn the handle to remove the cover. There
were squarish reader arms that'd move in and out at
an impressively slow speed. Sometimes, because it was
hard to tell, people would try to remove the disk
packs before they'd finished spinning. You COULD just
stick the cover in and yank out the pack. Alas then
it became a large heavy TOP that began to precess ...
sometimes with enough energy to fling the thing
out of your hand :-)

MET a guy who pioneered hard disks once. The originals
used a vapor-deposited COBALT coating instead of ferrite.
As I recall there was still a problem with ferrite coatings
and they would either flake off or be too rough.

Before that there were DRUMS ... like the original Edison
phonographs - except much bigger. The reader/writer would
scan back and forth along the drum on a worm screw.

And if you want weird ... look up "mercury delay-line
memory" :-) Envision a few thousand feet of really
thin polythene tube full of mercury spooled up. Mercury
is a GOOD conductor, but SLOW conductor. You'd impress
your signals at one end, and x-milliseconds later they'd
finally arrive at the other end. In the middle was a
"repeater" that'd read the older signal and re-send it
to the starting end - and you could READ/WRITE said
signal while you were repeating it. "Serial memory" the
old fashioned way. Millisecond memory seems useless, BUT
it was the fastest practical thing in the late 40s and
early 50s.

The Apollo computers used "rope memory" - HAND assembled.
This was basically ferrite-core memory, but assembled
on loose wires so you could pack it into a small space.
There WERE better solutions in the late 60s ... so I
suspect a pork-barrel project ... indeed I seem to
remember they were made in Texas - LBJs state :-)

The computer era from 1945-1955 is fun reading. Their
solutions, with the present tech, were often fascinating.

Hmm ... with modern stuff we could probably make serial
delay memory out of OPTICAL FIBER. It'd be so fast the
CPUs would seem slow by comparison - catch a byte
every third or fourth time around. The ultimate chip
cache :-)

My hopes for the future - basically abandon binary.
I think, with modern manufacturing capability, we
could make deca-state logic - base 10 - able to
cope with voltage levels from 0-9 stably. You don't
need 10 transistors to represent 10-bit bytes, just
ONE. No, it is not "analog", just the ability to hold
a lot more discrete logic states in the same circuitry.

The downside with current tech is that transistors/CMOS
are only efficient when it's fully OFF or ON ... in all
other cases it's a power-eating resistor. They'll have
to find ways around that - maybe optronics. I've even
heard of all-optical tricks based on interference
patterns (I thought of that around 1980 but until
now there was no practical way to do it).

Oh, and they ARE combining real analog in with
binary CPUs .... analog can innately do certain kinds
of engineering-relevant "calculations" pretty much
instantly, no calculation per-se. Any math that can
be represented as a sum of ratios can be done with
analog in SERIOUSLY real-time. Just don't take the
results through too many analog steps or the errors
WILL getcha.

So, deca-state speed-of-light moderately-parallelized
analog-supplimented CPUs - do-able within the next 10
years. (you don't want TOO much parallelization or
you lose speed in "traffic control", still ok for
super-specialty stuff like mining bitcoins though).
Thing is THAT'S IT ... the end of the Moore's Law.
Anything more requires something completely different
from "CPUs" that we now imagine.

Will the MAX CPUs be enough for real "AI" ??? MAYbe.
Barely. Better techniques might decrease the power
needed for real, thinking, AI personalities. I still
suspect there's a fractal-ish approach. Better start
writing AIs into the (quasi-Human) Rights laws. At
present, only S.Korea even considered it. Alas humans
DO like the idea of "slaves" .... and the AIs will
be made to be as "human" as possible because it
facilitates what WE want from them. This means they
can be oppressed, suffer, and The Laws are NOT going
to work because, like any human 2-year-old, they can
work around "laws"/"rules" easily. Invent "people"
and you have to deal with "people". Messy.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2021 08:49:28 +0100
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Mon, 6 Sep 2021 07:49 UTC

On 06/09/2021 01:29, SixOverFive wrote:
> On 9/1/21 3:52 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 01/09/2021 05:13, SixOverFive wrote:
>>> Do they still make "fuse" PROMS ? Even better ... you
>>>    don't re-write THOSE :-)
>>
>> well FPGAS are sort of usable as that design your won processor and
>> its microcode...
>
>   Do any of them still use fusible link memory ?

I couldn't find any on a cursory search.

I'll have
>   to check. My guess is "no" - it's all "field RE-programmable"
>   these days.

Yep. Flash mainly

>
>   I did get a hit for more traditional fusible-link chips, they
>   CAN still be purchased. Most are measured in BYTES though,
>   a few had KBs. If it just HAS to work, just HAS to be
>   unchangable, those are your ticket. Wouldn't be surprised
>   if the bootstrap in some of those space probes use that
>   kind of memory. Radiation/heat/cold isn't going to do much
>   to those little metal wires.
>
Fusible link was good - we used UV erasable until the code was stable,
then blew the PROMS. Typically this would be what was in a PC BIOS: I
guess today that is Flash on most motherboards.

Upgrades were done by removing them and plugging in new PROMS

>   Never got into FPGAs for some reason, though they are
>   pretty neat. Guess there was never a NEED in the stuff
>   I was doing. It'd be cool to emulate certain old CPUs
>   using them - or "improve" on them. How about a 64-bit
>   PDP-11 ?  :-)

--
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
....than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman

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