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Science and religion are in full accord but science and faith are in complete discord.


computers / comp.os.linux.misc / Re: thirty years ago

SubjectAuthor
* thirty years agoEli the Bearded
+* Re: thirty years agoJohn McCue
|`* Re: thirty years agoBobbie Sellers
| +- Re: thirty years agoThe Natural Philosopher
| `- Re: thirty years agoAndreas Kohlbach
+- Re: thirty years agoThe Doctor
+* Re: thirty years agoSixOverFive
|`* Re: thirty years agoThe Natural Philosopher
| +* Linux on a Chromebook (was: thirty years ago)Andreas Kohlbach
| |+* Re: Linux on a Chromebook (was: thirty years ago)Joerg Lorenz
| ||+- Re: Linux on a ChromebookThe Natural Philosopher
| ||`* Re: Linux on a ChromebookAndreas Kohlbach
| || `* Re: Linux on a ChromebookJoerg Lorenz
| ||  `* Re: Linux on a ChromebookAndreas Kohlbach
| ||   +- Re: Linux on a ChromebookEli the Bearded
| ||   `* Re: Linux on a ChromebookJoerg Lorenz
| ||    `- Re: Linux on a ChromebookThe Natural Philosopher
| |+- Re: Linux on a ChromebookThe Natural Philosopher
| |+* Re: Linux on a Chromebook (was: thirty years ago)Eli the Bearded
| ||+- Re: Linux on a Chromebook (was: thirty years ago)Joerg Lorenz
| ||`- Re: Linux on a ChromebookThe Natural Philosopher
| |`* Re: Linux on a ChromebookSixOverFive
| | +* Re: Linux on a ChromebookThe Natural Philosopher
| | |+- Re: Linux on a ChromebookCharlie Gibbs
| | |`* Re: Linux on a ChromebookAndreas Kohlbach
| | | `* Re: Linux on a ChromebookThe Natural Philosopher
| | |  `* Re: Linux on a ChromebookAndreas Kohlbach
| | |   `- Re: Linux on a ChromebookThe Natural Philosopher
| | `- Re: Linux on a ChromebookBobbie Sellers
| `* Re: thirty years agoSixOverFive
|  `- Re: thirty years agoThe Natural Philosopher
+- Re: thirty years agoAndrei Z.
+- Re: thirty years agoSolbu
`* Re: thirty years agoAndrei Z.
 `- Re: thirty years agoAndrei Z.

Pages:12
Re: Linux on a Chromebook

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From: bliss@mouse-potato.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Linux on a Chromebook
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2021 21:06:03 -0700
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 by: Bobbie Sellers - Fri, 27 Aug 2021 04:06 UTC

On 8/26/21 18:38, SixOverFive wrote:
> On 08/26/2021 12:21 PM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>> On Thu, 26 Aug 2021 10:02:14 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>> On 26/08/2021 05:12, SixOverFive wrote:
>>>> Strong rumors that Win-11 replaces a lot of the
>>>>     behind-the-scenes code with de-facto Linux, Win-12
>>>>     will be almost entirely Linux tweaked into a
>>>>     look-alike/work-alike that fools people into thinking
>>>>     it is still the old Winders line. MS just can't keep
>>>>     up with 30+ years of "legacy" and and HAS to switch
>>>>     to a more organized paradigm.
>>>>
>>> MS will have worked out where its income lies, as IBM did when it
>>> realised the money wasn't necessarily in hardware or operating
>>> systems.
>>
>> Everybody seems doing cloud today. Thus I didn't expect there would be a
>> Windows 11. I assumed they would create some dumb client after Windows 10
>> to connect to their cloud instead. Similar to what Google did with Chrome
>> OS, depending much or less on their cloud (pretty much useless without
>> internet connection).
>
>   Have no doubts, MS badly *wants* a return to the
>   client/server + license fees paradigm. Every release
>   edges further and further in that direction.
>
>   Oh yea, since your "machine" and data really reside
>   on MS servers it makes it a hell of a lot easier to
>   monitor/mine/sell your stuff ....
>
>   With MS (and G), assume evil intent until proven otherwise.
>
>
>> Btw. I might need a new laptop after 9 years hacking on this one in front
>> of me and thought about a Chromebook, because they are cheap (no Windows
>> OEM license?). But don't want to give up on Linux. There are a lot of
>> Howtos in the internet, and some reporting of messing all up. Anyone
>> successfully installed Linux - preferably next to Chrome OS - on a
>> Chromebook here?
>
>    Some you CAN flush and install Linux, some you can't. I think
>    manufacturers have some deal with G and/or MS to intentionally
>    try and stick people with proprietary OSs. There are a few
>    outfits that sell notebooks pre-installed with Linux, but they
>    are expensive (good high-powered units though).
>
>    This missive is being writ on a N300-based Dell P24-something,
>    compact, cheap, absolutely not for modern games or video
>    work. Flushed Winders and managed to get MX in there. Winders
>    actually used up about 70% of the 32gb SSD ... MX only about
>    15 percent  :-)

You can buy very nice used and refurbished Dell, i5 or i7 laptops for a
pittance (compared to new prices), I have an E6520,
E6520, and my letest bought April 2020. E7450. These can keep up it
seems though they burn a bit more energy, The Pine Book will be out of
stock until next month and it should run about $220-$250 if you want
to escape the Intel tyranny. Search on "Pine 64" to find the store. I
think it uses Manjaro with KDE.

Enjoy your shopping...

bliss - boots & runs a Pretty Cool Linux Operating System aka pclinuxos.

--
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

Re: Linux on a Chromebook

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From: cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Linux on a Chromebook
Date: 27 Aug 2021 13:32:20 GMT
Organization: NewsGuy.com
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 by: Charlie Gibbs - Fri, 27 Aug 2021 13:32 UTC

On 2021-08-27, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 27/08/2021 02:38, SixOverFive wrote:
>
>>   Have no doubts, MS badly *wants* a return to the
>>   client/server + license fees paradigm. Every release
>>   edges further and further in that direction.

a.k.a "Software as a Service" (SaaS)

I find it ironic that the goal of the modern right-wing
business establishment is the elimination of private
ownership - the dream of Karl Marx.

>>   Oh yea, since your "machine" and data really reside
>>   on MS servers it makes it a hell of a lot easier to
>>   monitor/mine/sell your stuff ....
>>
>>   With MS (and G), assume evil intent until proven otherwise.

+1

>>    Some you CAN flush and install Linux, some you can't. I think
>>    manufacturers have some deal with G and/or MS to intentionally
>>    try and stick people with proprietary OSs. There are a few
>>    outfits that sell notebooks pre-installed with Linux, but they
>>    are expensive (good high-powered units though).
>
> My take on this was that a second hand two year old quality ex business
> laptop would not only run linux 'out of the box', but was better specced
> for the same price as a new chromebook

The laptop I'm writing this on is a refurbished Lenovo T410,
an i5 box that has no trouble with Linux. Plus - and this
is important for me - it has a professional-grade keyboard,
which is increasingly difficult to find in a laptop.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | They don't understand Microsoft
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | has stolen their car and parked
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | a taxi in their driveway.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Mayayana

Re: Linux on a Chromebook

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From: ank@spamfence.net (Andreas Kohlbach)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Linux on a Chromebook
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 13:30:16 -0400
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 by: Andreas Kohlbach - Fri, 27 Aug 2021 17:30 UTC

On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 03:34:21 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
> Uk prices for a new chromebook with 4GB ram and nasty essd start
> around £200

4 GB would be enough for me. More important is the screen size. Should at
least have a 15" display.

Why is the ESSD nasty? I tested some in a shop and it felt fluid. No idea
though how it would behave if Linux was installed.
--
Andreas

Re: Linux on a Chromebook

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Linux on a Chromebook
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2021 09:34:13 +0100
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Sat, 28 Aug 2021 08:34 UTC

On 27/08/2021 18:30, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 03:34:21 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>> Uk prices for a new chromebook with 4GB ram and nasty essd start
>> around £200
>
> 4 GB would be enough for me. More important is the screen size. Should at
> least have a 15" display.
>
> Why is the ESSD nasty? I tested some in a shop and it felt fluid. No idea
> though how it would behave if Linux was installed.
>

its cheap and doesn't last?

My real point was that refurbished computers are great value.Better
value than new mass market chromebooks

I can pick up a used computer for less than the cost of buying the
processor in it. Bang for the buck is far better than new.

My cheap but new laptop didn't last as long as the refurbed model that
replaced it had *already* lasted before I bought it!

You might think what can go wrong in a cheap chromebook or laptop?
Backlight flickers. LCD screen has viciously narrow viewing angle and no
contrast. Interface board sockets fail with repeated use - Ethernet,
USB, power sockets all badly made and lose contact. Poor wifi
performance that drops out..camera fails. Keyboard is 'muddy'.
..
My £200 'new' laptop developed or had *all* of the above, and then it
wouldn't boot and gave memory errors no matter what RAM I put in, I just
gave up.

Same disk, same RAM in an used HP - faultless performance and twice the
wifi speed as well, Built to last.

The simple fact is that a second hand lightly used £500 laptop is way
better than a new £200 laptop.

And can be got for £200 more or less

My server here is a 15 year old MB that came with DDR2 RAM, and a
windows XP license for FREE!!

The disks in it did not, I agree. But its been the house server for
getting on for ten years now and is still capable of saturating the
100Mbps network that connects it to the world.

--
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
too dark to read.

Groucho Marx

Re: Linux on a Chromebook

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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Linux on a Chromebook
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 by: Andreas Kohlbach - Sat, 28 Aug 2021 16:42 UTC

On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 09:34:13 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
> On 27/08/2021 18:30, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>> On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 03:34:21 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>> Uk prices for a new chromebook with 4GB ram and nasty essd start
>>> around £200
>> 4 GB would be enough for me. More important is the screen
>> size. Should at
>> least have a 15" display.
>> Why is the ESSD nasty? I tested some in a shop and it felt fluid. No
>> idea
>> though how it would behave if Linux was installed.
>>
>
> its cheap and doesn't last?
>
> My real point was that refurbished computers are great value.Better
> value than new mass market chromebooks
>
> I can pick up a used computer for less than the cost of buying the
> processor in it. Bang for the buck is far better than new.
>
> My cheap but new laptop didn't last as long as the refurbed model that
> replaced it had *already* lasted before I bought it!
>
> You might think what can go wrong in a cheap chromebook or laptop?
> Backlight flickers. LCD screen has viciously narrow viewing angle and
> no contrast. Interface board sockets fail with repeated use -
> Ethernet, USB, power sockets all badly made and lose contact. Poor
> wifi performance that drops out..camera fails. Keyboard is 'muddy'.

I had several "budget" laptops made by Acer. All died from heavy use
within two years. Usually the CPU got so hot over a long period of time
that keyboard keys situated on top "glued" and wouldn't work.

The Acer One netbook almost died at the very first start as the fan of
the CPU wouldn't come on that an emergency shutdown occurred. But probably
too late. Took a few months (just after the warranty went out) to get
turned on at all.

But amazingly the one here in front of me, another notebook for $350
still works after nine years now. I "lost" three out of four cursor keys
already. Most of the keys lost their printing (no idea how you call the
characters printed on them). Both speakers died in the past years and the
lid won't hold in place. But besides this it is still functionally. It's
by HP.

I might go for another budget machine if I can afford a new computer. That
can be a refurbished laptop or a Chromebook. Unfortunately most 15.6"
Chromebooks I saw in a shop were made by Acer...

> My £200 'new' laptop developed or had *all* of the above, and then it
> wouldn't boot and gave memory errors no matter what RAM I put in, I
> just gave up.
>
> Same disk, same RAM in an used HP - faultless performance and twice
> the wifi speed as well, Built to last.

You just confirm that HP have a better quality (am not working for HP to
say this).
--
Andreas

Re: Linux on a Chromebook

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Linux on a Chromebook
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2021 20:18:35 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Sat, 28 Aug 2021 19:18 UTC

On 28/08/2021 17:42, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> You just confirm that HP have a better quality (am not working for HP to
> say this).

That was not really my intention. My intention is to make the point that
second hand quality is often better than new crap.

--
Climate is what you expect but weather is what you get.
Mark Twain

Re: thirty years ago

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From: no-email@invalid.invalid (Andrei Z.)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: thirty years ago
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2021 08:29:06 +0300
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: Andrei Z. - Mon, 30 Aug 2021 05:29 UTC

Eli the Bearded wrote:
> First Linux announcement, 25 August 1991.
>
> From: torvalds@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Linus Benedict Torvalds)
> Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
> Subject: What would you like to see most in minix?
> Summary: small poll for my new operating system
> Message-ID: <1991Aug25.205708.9541@klaava.Helsinki.FI>
> Date: 25 Aug 91 20:57:08 GMT
> Organization: University of Helsinki
>
>
> Hello everybody out there using minix -
>
> I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and
> professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. This has been brewing
> since april, and is starting to get ready. I'd like any feedback on
> things people like/dislike in minix, as my OS resembles it somewhat
> (same physical layout of the file-system (due to practical reasons)
> among other things).
>
> I've currently ported bash(1.08) and gcc(1.40), and things seem to work.
> This implies that I'll get something practical within a few months, and
> I'd like to know what features most people would want. Any suggestions
> are welcome, but I won't promise I'll implement them :-)
>
> Linus (torvalds@kruuna.helsinki.fi)
>
> PS. Yes - it's free of any minix code, and it has a multi-threaded fs.
> It is NOT protable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably never
> will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that's all I have :-(.
>
<snip>

30 things you didn't know about the Linux kernel

https://opensource.com/article/21/8/linux-kernel

Sounds of the Compiling Linux Kernel

https://youtu.be/4yMVkQRhiiQ

https://github.com/Shizcow/SOTCLK

Re: thirty years ago

<sh029q$bdt$1@dont-email.me>

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 by: Solbu - Sat, 4 Sep 2021 15:10 UTC

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Eli the Bearded wrote:

> I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and
> professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones.

If I ever get a chance to attend one of Torvalds talks, the one question
I dream of asking is: When will it be big and professional like Gnu. :-)

- --
Solbu - https://www.solbu.net
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Re: thirty years ago

<si7hqc$1dd3$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: no-email@invalid.invalid (Andrei Z.)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: thirty years ago
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2021 17:34:52 +0300
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 by: Andrei Z. - Sun, 19 Sep 2021 14:34 UTC

Eli the Bearded wrote:
> First Linux announcement, 25 August 1991.
>
> From: torvalds@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Linus Benedict Torvalds)
> Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
> Subject: What would you like to see most in minix?
> Summary: small poll for my new operating system
> Message-ID: <1991Aug25.205708.9541@klaava.Helsinki.FI>
> Date: 25 Aug 91 20:57:08 GMT
> Organization: University of Helsinki
>
>
> Hello everybody out there using minix -
>
> I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and
> professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. This has been brewing
> since april, and is starting to get ready. I'd like any feedback on
> things people like/dislike in minix, as my OS resembles it somewhat
> (same physical layout of the file-system (due to practical reasons)
> among other things).
>
> I've currently ported bash(1.08) and gcc(1.40), and things seem to work.
> This implies that I'll get something practical within a few months, and
> I'd like to know what features most people would want. Any suggestions
> are welcome, but I won't promise I'll implement them :-)
>
> Linus (torvalds@kruuna.helsinki.fi)
>
> PS. Yes - it's free of any minix code, and it has a multi-threaded fs.
> It is NOT protable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably never
> will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that's all I have :-(.
>
>
From Linus Torvalds <>
Date Fri, 17 Sep 2021 13:02:58 -0700
Subject 30 years since the Linux 0.01 release

https://lkml.org/lkml/2021/9/17/1018

"This is just a random note to let people know that today is actually
one of the core 30-year anniversary dates: 0.01 was uploaded Sept 17, 1991."

Re: thirty years ago

<si95sc$1og2$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: no-email@invalid.invalid (Andrei Z.)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: thirty years ago
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2021 08:23:24 +0300
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 by: Andrei Z. - Mon, 20 Sep 2021 05:23 UTC

Andrei Z. wrote:
> Eli the Bearded wrote:
>> First Linux announcement, 25 August 1991.
>>
>>    From: torvalds@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Linus Benedict Torvalds)
>>    Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
>>    Subject: What would you like to see most in minix?
>>    Summary: small poll for my new operating system
>>    Message-ID: <1991Aug25.205708.9541@klaava.Helsinki.FI>
>>    Date: 25 Aug 91 20:57:08 GMT
>>    Organization: University of Helsinki
>>
>>
>>    Hello everybody out there using minix -
>>
>>    I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and
>>    professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones.  This has been brewing
>>    since april, and is starting to get ready.  I'd like any feedback on
>>    things people like/dislike in minix, as my OS resembles it somewhat
>>    (same physical layout of the file-system (due to practical reasons)
>>    among other things).
>>
>>    I've currently ported bash(1.08) and gcc(1.40), and things seem to
>> work.
>>    This implies that I'll get something practical within a few months,
>> and
>>    I'd like to know what features most people would want.  Any
>> suggestions
>>    are welcome, but I won't promise I'll implement them :-)
>>
>>          Linus (torvalds@kruuna.helsinki.fi)
>>
>>    PS.  Yes - it's free of any minix code, and it has a multi-threaded
>> fs.
>>    It is NOT protable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably
>> never
>>    will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that's all I have
>> :-(.
>>
>>
> From    Linus Torvalds <>
> Date    Fri, 17 Sep 2021 13:02:58 -0700
> Subject    30 years since the Linux 0.01 release
>
> https://lkml.org/lkml/2021/9/17/1018
>
> "This is just a random note to let people know that today is actually
> one of the core 30-year anniversary dates: 0.01 was uploaded Sept 17,
> 1991."

Dirk Hohndel Reflects On What Made Linux So Successful

https://www.tfir.io/dirk-hohndel-reflects-on-what-made-linux-so-successful/

Pages:12
server_pubkey.txt

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