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computers / comp.sys.raspberry-pi / Re: PCBs available

SubjectAuthor
* PCBs availableThe Natural Philosopher
`* Re: PCBs availableTheo
 +* Re: PCBs availablePancho
 |`* Re: PCBs availableTheo
 | `* Re: PCBs availableThe Natural Philosopher
 |  `* Re: PCBs availableComputer Nerd Kev
 |   `* Re: PCBs availableThe Natural Philosopher
 |    `* Re: PCBs availableComputer Nerd Kev
 |     `* Re: PCBs availableThe Natural Philosopher
 |      `* Re: PCBs availableComputer Nerd Kev
 |       `- Re: PCBs availableThe Natural Philosopher
 +* Re: PCBs availableThe Natural Philosopher
 |`* Re: PCBs availableTheo
 | +* Re: PCBs availableThe Natural Philosopher
 | |`* Re: PCBs availableTheo
 | | `- Re: PCBs availableThe Natural Philosopher
 | `* Re: PCBs availableAndy Burns
 |  `- Re: PCBs availableTheo
 `* Re: PCBs availableDavid Higton
  `- Re: PCBs availableTheo

1
PCBs available

<ug8lq4$2fkip$1@dont-email.me>

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: PCBs available
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:37:39 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Thu, 12 Oct 2023 11:37 UTC

The dear chinese sent me 10 PCBs instead of one, so if anyone UK want a
PCB to build a mains powered power supply with 4 x 250VAC capable relays
buffered to suit raspberry PI GPIO current levels....

Let me know. Correct power supply choice would make it OK for 110V

http://vps.templar.co.uk/Odds%20and%20Ends/BCD_0025.JPG

--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

Re: PCBs available

<yqC*NXHsz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

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From: theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: PCBs available
Date: 12 Oct 2023 23:22:20 +0100 (BST)
Organization: University of Cambridge, England
Message-ID: <yqC*NXHsz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
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Originator: theom@chiark.greenend.org.uk ([212.13.197.229])
 by: Theo - Thu, 12 Oct 2023 22:22 UTC

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> The dear chinese sent me 10 PCBs instead of one, so if anyone UK want a
> PCB to build a mains powered power supply with 4 x 250VAC capable relays
> buffered to suit raspberry PI GPIO current levels....

That's a nice board - clear markings, easy to access components, neat power
supply. What tool did you use to design it, out of interest?

> Let me know. Correct power supply choice would make it OK for 110V

I made my own similar board last year - 7 relays, in a much tighter space,
mains coils and contacts (but still trying to keep the best isolation I
could).

I now need to trigger one mains coil from a Pi without exporting mains or
putting any DC wiring in the all-mains enclosure (where I can't get good
isolation). Current plan is to make a photo-triac triggered by light from
an LED on the Pi carried on some optical fibre...

Theo

Re: PCBs available

<ugatpu$324nh$1@dont-email.me>

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From: Pancho.Jones@proton.me (Pancho)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: PCBs available
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 09:06:22 +0100
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 by: Pancho - Fri, 13 Oct 2023 08:06 UTC

On 12/10/2023 23:22, Theo wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> The dear chinese sent me 10 PCBs instead of one, so if anyone UK want a
>> PCB to build a mains powered power supply with 4 x 250VAC capable relays
>> buffered to suit raspberry PI GPIO current levels....
>
> That's a nice board - clear markings, easy to access components, neat power
> supply. What tool did you use to design it, out of interest?
>
>> Let me know. Correct power supply choice would make it OK for 110V
>
> I made my own similar board last year - 7 relays, in a much tighter space,
> mains coils and contacts (but still trying to keep the best isolation I
> could).
>
> I now need to trigger one mains coil from a Pi without exporting mains or
> putting any DC wiring in the all-mains enclosure (where I can't get good
> isolation). Current plan is to make a photo-triac triggered by light from
> an LED on the Pi carried on some optical fibre...
>
> Theo

I assumed it was a standard board. A 5v/240v relay is a common
requirement. I used a very similar board, before I switched to using
Shelly/Sonoff type devices. It even had 4 relays, when I only wanted one.

Re: PCBs available

<yqC*ClKsz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

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From: theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: PCBs available
Date: 13 Oct 2023 10:18:40 +0100 (BST)
Organization: University of Cambridge, England
Message-ID: <yqC*ClKsz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
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Originator: theom@chiark.greenend.org.uk ([212.13.197.229])
 by: Theo - Fri, 13 Oct 2023 09:18 UTC

Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:
> I assumed it was a standard board. A 5v/240v relay is a common
> requirement. I used a very similar board, before I switched to using
> Shelly/Sonoff type devices. It even had 4 relays, when I only wanted one.

Chinese relay boards aren't uncommon, eg:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262499095094

- on that one there are optocouplers between the inputs and the relay coils,
for some reason (maybe they were cheaper than transistors, or they really
don't trust the relays' isolation?)

The nice thing about TNP's board is there's a mains to 5V converter on
board, which means you can power the board from the mains that you're
switching. Otherwise you need to arrange for a separate DC power supply,
and that gets annoying in a tight space - with this board you don't need a
separate power supply for the Pi.

Theo

Re: PCBs available

<ugb97s$34vit$6@dont-email.me>

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: PCBs available
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 12:21:32 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
Lines: 44
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Fri, 13 Oct 2023 11:21 UTC

On 12/10/2023 23:22, Theo wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> The dear chinese sent me 10 PCBs instead of one, so if anyone UK want a
>> PCB to build a mains powered power supply with 4 x 250VAC capable relays
>> buffered to suit raspberry PI GPIO current levels....
>
> That's a nice board - clear markings, easy to access components, neat power
> supply. What tool did you use to design it, out of interest?
Since when I did this professionally it was black tape on clear film, I
ended up using Corel Draw! I started with a 3D modelling program to make
sure the physical bits fitted, then exported the copper to Corel,
because I am very fluent in it

I found a CDR to Gerber conversion utility online. That made all the
difference and it even worked for the legend. The drill file was harder
but again I found a utility to create that.

3D printed case is on its way from a good friend. STL files available
for that as well
>
>> Let me know. Correct power supply choice would make it OK for 110V
>
> I made my own similar board last year - 7 relays, in a much tighter space,
> mains coils and contacts (but still trying to keep the best isolation I
> could).
>
> I now need to trigger one mains coil from a Pi without exporting mains or
> putting any DC wiring in the all-mains enclosure (where I can't get good
> isolation). Current plan is to make a photo-triac triggered by light from
> an LED on the Pi carried on some optical fibre...

If a discrete optical coupler is a nono that might work.

>
> Theo

--
“A leader is best When people barely know he exists. Of a good leader,
who talks little,When his work is done, his aim fulfilled,They will say,
“We did this ourselves.”

― Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

Re: PCBs available

<ugba2h$35bbn$1@dont-email.me>

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: PCBs available
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 12:35:44 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
Lines: 56
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Fri, 13 Oct 2023 11:35 UTC

On 13/10/2023 10:18, Theo wrote:
> Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:
>> I assumed it was a standard board. A 5v/240v relay is a common
>> requirement. I used a very similar board, before I switched to using
>> Shelly/Sonoff type devices. It even had 4 relays, when I only wanted one.
>
> Chinese relay boards aren't uncommon, eg:
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262499095094
>
> - on that one there are optocouplers between the inputs and the relay coils,
> for some reason (maybe they were cheaper than transistors, or they really
> don't trust the relays' isolation?)
>
> The nice thing about TNP's board is there's a mains to 5V converter on
> board, which means you can power the board from the mains that you're
> switching. Otherwise you need to arrange for a separate DC power supply,
> and that gets annoying in a tight space - with this board you don't need a
> separate power supply for the Pi.
>
> Theo

Yes. I was going to cobble it all together from hats, but then it all
seemed messy.
If I had thought a bit more I could have made a bigger board and put the
zero actually ON the main PCB, and eliminated the 6 way plug...

I am considering just that for the next part of all this - the oil tank
ultrasonic level sensor which needs a battery holder, a micropower timer
to fire the PI Pico up every hour and then shut it down, and the
ultrasonic transducers. Plus two resistors to drop the supply voltage to
something the PICO ADC can handle.

It seems that the place that does the board just does a whole big sheet
of copper pcb at one price, so ordering just one doesn't happen. I think
this was $40 for ten boards.

Now I don't want a million oil tank sensors, but frankly $40 for a
single proto board is OK so if I get another 20 thrown in, they will be
up for grabs too.

I am not claiming that I can get my discrete parts count down to a mass
produced surface mounted HAT, because I cant. But the heating
controller has to 'see me out' and this looks to be a reasonably
professional way to use my skills and what eyesight and manual dexterity
I have left to make a solution that exactly fits what I want.

And the odd thing is, that 4 transistors of such ancient vintage is
*cheaper* than a pack of 6 in a DIP or SMD package...

Anyway, can't wait to put it in its 3D printed case and install it. It
been hard work but lots of fun too.

--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

Re: PCBs available

<BqC*R2Ksz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

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From: theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: PCBs available
Date: 13 Oct 2023 13:23:11 +0100 (BST)
Organization: University of Cambridge, England
Message-ID: <BqC*R2Ksz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
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Originator: theom@chiark.greenend.org.uk ([212.13.197.229])
 by: Theo - Fri, 13 Oct 2023 12:23 UTC

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Since when I did this professionally it was black tape on clear film, I
> ended up using Corel Draw! I started with a 3D modelling program to make
> sure the physical bits fitted, then exported the copper to Corel,
> because I am very fluent in it
>
> I found a CDR to Gerber conversion utility online. That made all the
> difference and it even worked for the legend. The drill file was harder
> but again I found a utility to create that.

Nice. An ex-colleague of mine has a startup which does 'PCB art', ie using
the PCB medium for artistic design that happens to be a functional circuit:
https://boldport.com/

He has a flow that uses Inkscape for the 'artistry' and then turns it into
Gerbers:
https://github.com/boldport/pcbmode

but if you don't need any of the schematic/netlist/ERC/DRC/etc support that
a PCB tool gives you, just hand drawing it in the drawing package works well
enough. It's quite a nice idea for making attractive and not-complicated
boards.

> > I now need to trigger one mains coil from a Pi without exporting mains or
> > putting any DC wiring in the all-mains enclosure (where I can't get good
> > isolation). Current plan is to make a photo-triac triggered by light from
> > an LED on the Pi carried on some optical fibre...
>
> If a discrete optical coupler is a nono that might work.

It's a bit annoying... with no DC in the box and not wanting to risk
exporting mains to the Pi, or making another box with a relay, the obvious
option is an optocoupler, but you can't really ensure good isolation unless
you put it in a good enclosure, which is tricky here because I'm shoving it
in an existing mains box dangling on flying leads.

Aha, I thought, you can get optotriacs to switch AC, so what about if I just
get a phototriac and shine a light at it to trigger the triac instead of
having the LED in the optotriac. Trouble is, phototriacs don't exist as a
discrete component. So the next plan is to use an LDR (photoresistor) to
trigger the gate of a regular triac (street lights use this for the
dawn-to-dusk circuit). Only finding an LDR rated for 339Vpeak is tricky, so
I probably need to voltage divide first...

I suppose I should just bite the bullet with an optotriac, put it in a
little case with wire tail connections, and pot it all with some HV safe
resin. Although the idea of a mains box with just an optical fibre input
does have its appeal...

Theo

Re: PCBs available

<ugbh3f$36utl$1@dont-email.me>

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: PCBs available
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 14:35:43 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Fri, 13 Oct 2023 13:35 UTC

On 13/10/2023 13:23, Theo wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> Since when I did this professionally it was black tape on clear film, I
>> ended up using Corel Draw! I started with a 3D modelling program to make
>> sure the physical bits fitted, then exported the copper to Corel,
>> because I am very fluent in it
>>
>> I found a CDR to Gerber conversion utility online. That made all the
>> difference and it even worked for the legend. The drill file was harder
>> but again I found a utility to create that.
>
> Nice. An ex-colleague of mine has a startup which does 'PCB art', ie using
> the PCB medium for artistic design that happens to be a functional circuit:
> https://boldport.com/
>
> He has a flow that uses Inkscape for the 'artistry' and then turns it into
> Gerbers:
> https://github.com/boldport/pcbmode
>
> but if you don't need any of the schematic/netlist/ERC/DRC/etc support that
> a PCB tool gives you, just hand drawing it in the drawing package works well
> enough. It's quite a nice idea for making attractive and not-complicated
> boards.
>
>>> I now need to trigger one mains coil from a Pi without exporting mains or
>>> putting any DC wiring in the all-mains enclosure (where I can't get good
>>> isolation). Current plan is to make a photo-triac triggered by light from
>>> an LED on the Pi carried on some optical fibre...
>>
>> If a discrete optical coupler is a nono that might work.
>
> It's a bit annoying... with no DC in the box and not wanting to risk
> exporting mains to the Pi, or making another box with a relay, the obvious
> option is an optocoupler, but you can't really ensure good isolation unless
> you put it in a good enclosure, which is tricky here because I'm shoving it
> in an existing mains box dangling on flying leads.
>
> Aha, I thought, you can get optotriacs to switch AC, so what about if I just
> get a phototriac and shine a light at it to trigger the triac instead of
> having the LED in the optotriac. Trouble is, phototriacs don't exist as a
> discrete component. So the next plan is to use an LDR (photoresistor) to
> trigger the gate of a regular triac (street lights use this for the
> dawn-to-dusk circuit). Only finding an LDR rated for 339Vpeak is tricky, so
> I probably need to voltage divide first...
>
> I suppose I should just bite the bullet with an optotriac, put it in a
> little case with wire tail connections, and pot it all with some HV safe
> resin. Although the idea of a mains box with just an optical fibre input
> does have its appeal...
>
> Theo
yes, you have thought it through all right., I didnt think LDRs had a
'maximum voltage' rating TBH.

The other possible coupler is RF. Or magnetism outside the box
triggering something inside. Like a reed relay

--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"

Re: PCBs available

<kot0alF8laeU2@mid.individual.net>

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From: usenet@andyburns.uk (Andy Burns)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: PCBs available
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 14:51:18 +0100
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 by: Andy Burns - Fri, 13 Oct 2023 13:51 UTC

Theo wrote:

> It's a bit annoying... with no DC in the box and not wanting to risk
> exporting mains to the Pi, or making another box with a relay, the
> obvious option is an optocoupler, but you can't really ensure good
> isolation unless you put it in a good enclosure, which is tricky here
> because I'm shoving it in an existing mains box dangling on flying
> leads. Aha, I thought, you can get optotriacs to switch AC, so what
> about if I just get a phototriac and shine a light at it to trigger the
> triac instead of having the LED in the optotriac. Trouble is,
> phototriacs don't exist as a discrete component.

Can't you "snap" one of these in half?

<https://cpc.farnell.com/omron-electronic-components/ee-sx4070/opto-switch-slotted/dp/SC12350?>

Re: PCBs available

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From: theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: PCBs available
Date: 13 Oct 2023 15:09:41 +0100 (BST)
Organization: University of Cambridge, England
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 by: Theo - Fri, 13 Oct 2023 14:09 UTC

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Theo wrote:
>
> > It's a bit annoying... with no DC in the box and not wanting to risk
> > exporting mains to the Pi, or making another box with a relay, the
> > obvious option is an optocoupler, but you can't really ensure good
> > isolation unless you put it in a good enclosure, which is tricky here
> > because I'm shoving it in an existing mains box dangling on flying
> > leads. Aha, I thought, you can get optotriacs to switch AC, so what
> > about if I just get a phototriac and shine a light at it to trigger the
> > triac instead of having the LED in the optotriac. Trouble is,
> > phototriacs don't exist as a discrete component.
>
> Can't you "snap" one of these in half?
>
> <https://cpc.farnell.com/omron-electronic-components/ee-sx4070/opto-switch-slotted/dp/SC12350?>

That's a photodetector (photodiode, amplifier) which has a DC output and
needs a DC power supply. It can neither switch nor be powered by mains,
without extra components. You'd need an AC to DC power supply (either a
SMPSU module, or DIY a non-isolated PSU with associated risks) and then a
circuit to switch an AC mains output (a zero-crossing triac, possibly).

Makes it much more complicated than it needs to be.

Theo

Re: PCBs available

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From: theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: PCBs available
Date: 13 Oct 2023 15:24:35 +0100 (BST)
Organization: University of Cambridge, England
Message-ID: <BqC*itLsz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
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 by: Theo - Fri, 13 Oct 2023 14:24 UTC

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 13/10/2023 13:23, Theo wrote:
> > It's a bit annoying... with no DC in the box and not wanting to risk
> > exporting mains to the Pi, or making another box with a relay, the obvious
> > option is an optocoupler, but you can't really ensure good isolation unless
> > you put it in a good enclosure, which is tricky here because I'm shoving it
> > in an existing mains box dangling on flying leads.
> >
> > Aha, I thought, you can get optotriacs to switch AC, so what about if I just
> > get a phototriac and shine a light at it to trigger the triac instead of
> > having the LED in the optotriac. Trouble is, phototriacs don't exist as a
> > discrete component. So the next plan is to use an LDR (photoresistor) to
> > trigger the gate of a regular triac (street lights use this for the
> > dawn-to-dusk circuit). Only finding an LDR rated for 339Vpeak is tricky, so
> > I probably need to voltage divide first...
> >
> > I suppose I should just bite the bullet with an optotriac, put it in a
> > little case with wire tail connections, and pot it all with some HV safe
> > resin. Although the idea of a mains box with just an optical fibre input
> > does have its appeal...
> >
> > Theo
> yes, you have thought it through all right., I didnt think LDRs had a
> 'maximum voltage' rating TBH.

LDRs are funny because most of them are CdS and cadmium is restricted under
RoHS, so the market is a bit limited. Most of the popular (Chinese) ones go
up to 100-150V. I found a 250V one, but that'll be 250V dc so not rated to
handle 240Vac peaks (=339Vdc). Don't want to connect something directly to
the mains that I'm running out of spec.

> The other possible coupler is RF. Or magnetism outside the box
> triggering something inside. Like a reed relay

It's a steel box, so magnetism through it is awkward. I thought about RF,
but the receiver needs a DC power supply - I don't have space for one of
those 433MHz 'remote control plugs' you find on Amazon, and the steel box
won't help with the RF.

I thought about reed relays, but all of the ones available are PCB mount and
I don't have a PCB.

I suppose if I'm potting something I could equally as well pot a PCB reed
relay as an optotriac, and bring out the coil connections to the Pi.
Although the opto's LED I can connect directly to the Pi, while the coil
will need a booster transistor.

Theo

Re: PCBs available

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: PCBs available
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 16:59:39 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Fri, 13 Oct 2023 15:59 UTC

On 13/10/2023 15:24, Theo wrote:
> I thought about reed relays, but all of the ones available are PCB mount
> and I don't have a PCB. I suppose if I'm potting something I could
> equally as well pot a PCB reed relay as an optotriac, and bring out the
> coil connections to the Pi. Although the opto's LED I can connect
> directly to the Pi, while the coil will need a booster transistor.

I am surprised the old glass envelope things don't still exist.

Mmm. if you google 400V opto-isolator you find many option.
Phototransistors and phototriacs instead of LDR's

--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

Re: PCBs available

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From: not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Subject: Re: PCBs available
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
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 by: Computer Nerd Kev - Fri, 13 Oct 2023 21:58 UTC

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> It seems that the place that does the board just does a whole big sheet
> of copper pcb at one price, so ordering just one doesn't happen. I think
> this was $40 for ten boards.

There are some that will do batches of five. They do arrange
multiple designs onto the same board for etching, so it's not a
matter of minimum copper area, but they usually make extras in case
of flaws and 10 + 1 extra would be more cost-efficient for them
than 1 + 1 extra. I once got a (very) flawed board thrown in amongst
the others with a big X drawn on it with permanent marker - not sure
what to think of that.

Of course sometimes the pricing is just wacky. The first time I
ordered from one Chinese PCB manufacturer, the price for 105 boards
was _lower_ than for 100.

That had been fixed by my second order, and they started slugging
me with an extra postage charge at the end of check-out then too
(probably because I'm not in a major city like most customers).

I still prefer to etch boards myself sometimes, but then I prefer
doing most things myself if given half a chance.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

Re: PCBs available

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: PCBs available
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2023 11:23:27 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Sat, 14 Oct 2023 10:23 UTC

On 13/10/2023 22:58, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> It seems that the place that does the board just does a whole big sheet
>> of copper pcb at one price, so ordering just one doesn't happen. I think
>> this was $40 for ten boards.
>
> There are some that will do batches of five. They do arrange
> multiple designs onto the same board for etching, so it's not a
> matter of minimum copper area, but they usually make extras in case
> of flaws and 10 + 1 extra would be more cost-efficient for them
> than 1 + 1 extra. I once got a (very) flawed board thrown in amongst
> the others with a big X drawn on it with permanent marker - not sure
> what to think of that.
>
> Of course sometimes the pricing is just wacky. The first time I
> ordered from one Chinese PCB manufacturer, the price for 105 boards
> was _lower_ than for 100.
>
> That had been fixed by my second order, and they started slugging
> me with an extra postage charge at the end of check-out then too
> (probably because I'm not in a major city like most customers).
>
> I still prefer to etch boards myself sometimes, but then I prefer
> doing most things myself if given half a chance.
>
I tried, but in the end the cost of what it took me to utterly fail to
get a board exposed correctly was well in excess of $40.

The key breakthrough was finding a Corel to Gerber converter: things
like EagleCAD and friends are just too damned complex with a very steep
learning curve.
Fine for a 10 layer board perhaps, but not for a very simple beast like
this

--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

Re: PCBs available

<5d2b61f35a.DaveMeUK@BeagleBoard-xM>

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From: dave@davehigton.me.uk (David Higton)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: PCBs available
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2023 21:08:02 +0100
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 by: David Higton - Sat, 14 Oct 2023 20:08 UTC

In message <yqC*NXHsz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

> I now need to trigger one mains coil from a Pi without exporting mains or
> putting any DC wiring in the all-mains enclosure (where I can't get good
> isolation).

Would a solid state relay do what you want? They are available for low
power applications as well as high power.

The one thing they are not good for is controlling transformer-coupled
loads.

David

Re: PCBs available

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From: theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: PCBs available
Date: 14 Oct 2023 22:13:50 +0100 (BST)
Organization: University of Cambridge, England
Message-ID: <s3t*JeSsz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
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 by: Theo - Sat, 14 Oct 2023 21:13 UTC

David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
> In message <yqC*NXHsz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > I now need to trigger one mains coil from a Pi without exporting mains or
> > putting any DC wiring in the all-mains enclosure (where I can't get good
> > isolation).
>
> Would a solid state relay do what you want? They are available for low
> power applications as well as high power.
>
> The one thing they are not good for is controlling transformer-coupled
> loads.

Yes, they're basically the optotriac idea but in a Darlington configuration
and with the snubber network integrated. I agree that does make life
easier than building the circuit.

I have a few lying around but they're large bricks, roughly the size of a
cased Pi. However there appear to be slim 2A SSRs around:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203683359224
which will likely do the job (minus PCB).

Theo

Re: PCBs available

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From: not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Subject: Re: PCBs available
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 by: Computer Nerd Kev - Sat, 14 Oct 2023 23:00 UTC

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 13/10/2023 22:58, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> I still prefer to etch boards myself sometimes, but then I prefer
>> doing most things myself if given half a chance.
>>
> I tried, but in the end the cost of what it took me to utterly fail to
> get a board exposed correctly was well in excess of $40.

Oh right, yeah those photo-resist kits are expensive. I use the
toner transfer method, but you need to pick a printer with a
straight-through paper feed path for that. I tried to turn an
ink-jet printer into a direct-PCB printer once, but got defeated
by all the microswitch sensors from the removed paper feeder that
needed to be triggered at the right moment or else the controler
would throw an error.

> The key breakthrough was finding a Corel to Gerber converter: things
> like EagleCAD and friends are just too damned complex with a very steep
> learning curve.
> Fine for a 10 layer board perhaps, but not for a very simple beast like
> this

Those programs do make it easier to keep within the manufacturing
specs of the PCB manufacturer though, by checking all the gaps
between tracks. Things like that are one other reason I prefer to
just make boards myself rather than deal with Chinglish emails
about how the silkscreen goes slightly over the edge of the board
or there's an extra charge because a via was in the wrong place.
Too much for a one-off DIY project. Although I'll admit that I
haven't found a good way to line up the pattern on double-sided
boards when etching them myself, so that's usually frustrating too.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _# | Note: I won't see posts made from Google Groups |

Re: PCBs available

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: PCBs available
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 11:28:49 +0100
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Sun, 15 Oct 2023 10:28 UTC

On 15/10/2023 00:00, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> Those programs do make it easier to keep within the manufacturing specs
> of the PCB manufacturer though, by checking all the gaps between tracks.

Probably, but I was doing that years ago, by hand

> Things like that are one other reason I prefer to just make boards
> myself rather than deal with Chinglish emails about how the silkscreen
> goes slightly over the edge of the board or there's an extra charge
> because a via was in the wrong place. Too much for a one-off DIY
> project. Although I'll admit that I haven't found a good way to line up
> the pattern on double-sided boards when etching them myself, so that's
> usually frustrating too.

1/. Its easy to register the sides. You just drill some registration
holes before exposing
2/. You wont have a silkscreen or vias on a hand etched board.
3/. Whoever was at the other end of this transaction spoke perfect
English and seemed to be based in the USA. I suspect he has a chum in a
pcb plant in china, and gets s slender commission

I have to say this is the second time I have these these people and it
has always gone smoothly, if slowly in terms of postage.

The minimum they require is four Gerber files - the board outline, the
copper, the silkscreen and the solder mask. And a drill file in the CNC
format.
Since i designed the board in Corel using layers for each of the above,
alignment was guaranteed.

Recommended.
https://dirtypcbs.com/store/pcbs

--
There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do
that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon
emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent
renewable energy.

Re: PCBs available

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From: not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Subject: Re: PCBs available
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
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 by: Computer Nerd Kev - Sun, 15 Oct 2023 12:22 UTC

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 15/10/2023 00:00, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> Things like that are one other reason I prefer to just make boards
>> myself rather than deal with Chinglish emails about how the silkscreen
>> goes slightly over the edge of the board or there's an extra charge
>> because a via was in the wrong place. Too much for a one-off DIY
>> project. Although I'll admit that I haven't found a good way to line up
>> the pattern on double-sided boards when etching them myself, so that's
>> usually frustrating too.
>
> 1/. Its easy to register the sides. You just drill some registration
> holes before exposing

That doesn't apply for toner transfer where I pre-heat the board
and then apply the grease paper with the layout printed on it. I
have tried anchoring corners of the paper but it tends to all go
wrong (I succeed eventually though).

> 2/. You wont have a silkscreen or vias on a hand etched board.

Can do. The silkscreen is just the same toner transfer process done
again after etching, and vias can just be wires soldered on either
side of the board if the holes and tracks are big enough.

> 3/. Whoever was at the other end of this transaction spoke perfect
> English and seemed to be based in the USA. I suspect he has a chum in a
> pcb plant in china, and gets s slender commission

Sounds good. I just like doing things myself at heart.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _# | Note: I won't see posts made from Google Groups |

Re: PCBs available

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: PCBs available
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 13:40:14 +0100
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Sun, 15 Oct 2023 12:40 UTC

On 15/10/2023 13:22, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> Sounds good. I just like doing things myself at heart.

So do I, but there are limits to what one can do *well*.

--
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

Jonathan Swift.

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