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computers / comp.os.linux.misc / Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

SubjectAuthor
* HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxEli the Bearded
|`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
| +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
| |`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
| | +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
| | |`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
| | | `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
| | |  `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
| | |   `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
| | `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxCharlie Gibbs
| `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxjak
+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
|`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
| `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
|  `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
|+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxTauno Voipio
||`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
|| `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  |+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxBobbie Sellers
||  ||`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  || +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  || |`- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  || `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  ||  `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  ||   +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  ||   |`- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  ||   `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxCharlie Gibbs
||  ||    `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  ||     `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxCharlie Gibbs
||  ||      `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  ||       `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxCharlie Gibbs
||  ||        `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  | `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  |  `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAllodoxaphobia
||  |   `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |    `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  |     `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |      `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  |       +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxRoger Blake
||  |       |`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxpH
||  |       | `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |       `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |        +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  |        |+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxBobbie Sellers
||  |        ||`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  |        || `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |        ||  +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  |        ||  |`- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |        ||  `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  |        ||   `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |        |`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |        | +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxScott Lurndal
||  |        | |`- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAhem A Rivet's Shot
||  |        | +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxJ. Clarke
||  |        | |+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAhem A Rivet's Shot
||  |        | ||`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxPeter Flass
||  |        | || `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxJ. Clarke
||  |        | ||  `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |        | ||   `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  |        | ||    +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxDennis Boone
||  |        | ||    |`- Re: real programmers, was HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxJohn Levine
||  |        | ||    +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxDavid W. Hodgins
||  |        | ||    |+- Re: fine old languages, HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxJohn Levine
||  |        | ||    |+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |        | ||    ||`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxCharlie Gibbs
||  |        | ||    || `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxDan Espen
||  |        | ||    ||  `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxJ. Clarke
||  |        | ||    ||   `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxCharlie Gibbs
||  |        | ||    |`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  |        | ||    | +- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxDavid W. Hodgins
||  |        | ||    | `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxRich Alderson
||  |        | ||    `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxJerry Peters
||  |        | |`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |        | | +* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  |        | | |+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAhem A Rivet's Shot
||  |        | | ||+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  |        | | |||`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxgareth evans
||  |        | | ||| `* OT : Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxgareth evans
||  |        | | |||  `- Re: OT : Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  |        | | ||`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxCharlie Gibbs
||  |        | | || `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAhem A Rivet's Shot
||  |        | | |+- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxStéphane CARPENTIER
||  |        | | |`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxJ. Clarke
||  |        | | | `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |        | | |  `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxJ. Clarke
||  |        | | |   `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAhem A Rivet's Shot
||  |        | | `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  |        | +- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxQuestor
||  |        | `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAndreas Kohlbach
||  |        `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAnssi Saari
||  |         `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |          `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAnssi Saari
||  |           +- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  |           `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxTauno Voipio
||  |            +- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |            `* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
||  |             +- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
||  |             `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxTauno Voipio
||  `- Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxSixOverFive
|`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxThe Natural Philosopher
+* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxAragorn
`* Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBoxCharlie Gibbs

Pages:12345
Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
References: <1vGdnQotD_JChLr8nZ2dnUU7-L3NnZ2d@earthlink.com> <874kbc18bn.fsf@usenet.ankman.de> <sg8gn8$78h$1@dont-email.me> <LZmdnU0zIfsmp7X8nZ2dnUU7-L_NnZ2d@earthlink.com> <sg9grd$n4i$1@dont-email.me> <87wno6yf89.fsf@usenet.ankman.de> <sgcsq6$ovu$1@dont-email.me> <877dg5y20j.fsf@usenet.ankman.de> <slrnsilmof.12qs.trepidation@vps.jonz.net> <fvCdnYI1nve7WLD8nZ2dnUU7-d_NnZ2d@earthlink.com> <877dg1vs0c.fsf@usenet.ankman.de> <v8-dnU5U95snarP8nZ2dnUU7-LnNnZ2d@earthlink.com> <87pmtstsvv.fsf@usenet.ankman.de>
From: hae274c.net@nowhere (SixOverFive)
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2021 01:10:09 -0400
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 by: SixOverFive - Thu, 2 Sep 2021 05:10 UTC

On 9/1/21 7:52 AM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Aug 2021 23:47:05 -0400, SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:
>>
>> On 8/31/21 6:16 AM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>> On Tue, 31 Aug 2021 01:58:53 -0400, SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> WordStar was OK ... basic, but GOT IT DONE. Just had
>>>> to learn those shortcut commands :-)
>>> /me hugs the WordStar Diamond
>>> As I mentioned I love running vintage machines in an emulator I
>>> never
>>> owned to relive early micro computer history. For fun I did some word
>>> editing with WordStar on a Osborn I. Its keyboard doesn't has cursor keys
>>> (so the real cursor keys on the host machine have no function when
>>> emulating the Osborn), thus I had to use the "WordStar Diamond" instead.
>>> Also had to learn the WordStar shortcuts ^K.
>>
>> You could make do nicely with about 10 of them.
>>
>> I'll have to find a WordStar .img file somewhere ...
>>
>> I'm not sure what "vintage" means to YOU. A VIC-20 ? ZX-81 ?
>> TI-994a ? C64 ? Atari ? CoCo ?
>
> All of them. Plus the Osborn, Kaypro and many other micros of the 1980s.

Did ONE project on an Osbourne (or was it KayPro) "portable"
for people who were *convinced* CP/M-80 was forever and always
in the Business World. DOS - just a 'fad'. Oh well, they paid
actual money so .... :-)

The IBM "portable" PC was the same idea - medium-suitcase sized,
heavy as hell - very orange mini-screen - BUT you could put 640k
and an 8087 in that one. Z80s, well, not so much .....

WAY back, I did biz with a computer shop (remember those ?)
and the owner once asked me if there was ANY use for 16/32-bit
processors. I must have been psychic back in the day ... I said
32/64 was the future, and one of the main reasons would be
GRAPHICS/GUIs :-)

He was not convinced - and wanted me to buy an Atari-400 ...

I will still claim credit (surely unwarranted) for the Java
idea. That was back in the dial-up BBS days. They were all
text based and I said it might be nice to write TexTronic
graphic terminal emulators for the common machines and
export content in a format ALL could translate into nice
graphical displays. Why, you might even be able to see
PICTURES live in the posts !!!

OK, OK ... at 300 baud those pictures might load up just
a TAD slow ......

I *do* still have a VIC-20 in the storage heap somewhere.
Gotta see it it'll still boot sometime. They were actually
better to learn assembler on than the C64 because of the
simpler memory model. Also acquired an Apple 2e - WITH
dual floppy drives - it DOES boot, but I really really
need to figure out how to copy the system disks to newer
media. The coating is probably ready to flake off ....

Emulated is nice, but the REAL HARDWARE is still mor
e
compelling. Alas, even now, I can't buy a System-360
even though I do have an un-used room big enough to
hold all the necessary peripherials. It'd be a bit
crowded, yea, but ...

Can you still buy data-tape reels and paper-tape ?
Somewhere on YouTube there's a video by some guy
who brought a PDP-11 system back to life - AND
booted it with a strip of paper tape. The physical
interface seemed rather complex though.

Finished using DosBox-X today to run an ancient DB and
print 14 years worth of reports. Went MUCH nicer when
I set DBX to run at FULL speed - minutes became seconds.
A tad of Python and the ascii printouts became CSVs
that I brought into LibreOffice-Calc for posterity.
The DB was non-Y2K-compliant and 1999 was the last
time it was used. There WAS very extensive documentation,
but that was trashed a decade ago. Found the main account
by searching left-over BATCH files. NOW I've got to make
its successor, FileMaker, run. Finding the user/PWs will
take a lot of looking/guessing though ...

Oh well, I've gone on too long.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
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<874kbc18bn.fsf@usenet.ankman.de> <sg8gn8$78h$1@dont-email.me>
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<87wno6yf89.fsf@usenet.ankman.de> <sgcsq6$ovu$1@dont-email.me>
<877dg5y20j.fsf@usenet.ankman.de> <slrnsilmof.12qs.trepidation@vps.jonz.net>
<fvCdnYI1nve7WLD8nZ2dnUU7-d_NnZ2d@earthlink.com>
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<87pmtstsvv.fsf@usenet.ankman.de> <20210901214615@news.eternal-september.org>
<sgpdg5$vtn$1@dont-email.me>
From: hae274c.net@nowhere (SixOverFive)
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2021 01:29:29 -0400
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 by: SixOverFive - Thu, 2 Sep 2021 05:29 UTC

On 9/1/21 10:39 PM, pH wrote:
> On 2021-09-02, Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2021-09-01, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>> All of them. Plus the Osborn, Kaypro and many other micros of the 1980s.
>>
>> I still have my Interact in the original box. Hasn't worked in ages though.
>>
>> http://oldcomputermuseum.com/interact.html
>
>
> I appreciate the links you have in your sig and found the 18 reasons one
> very interesting reading.
>
> pH

An Osbourne/KayPro OUGHT to boot OK even after all this
time. The main worry is old-style capacitors. The
secondary worry is that the coating will flake off
boot disks the minute you spin them up. There at least
USED to be some places that would read those disks
"touchless" and move it all to newer media.

Those were NICE Z-80 boxes - albeit kind of 'end
of the line'. The IBM "portable" PC was the same
idea. All were the size of medium suitcases and
HEAVY and you needed to be young to read those
little built-in screens. The IBM though ... 640k
and an 8087 .... the others just could NOT compete.
And thus so ended CP/M-80 and CP/M in general.

Somewhere I have a picture of myself using an IBM-PPC
very literally "in the field" run from a DC-AC converter.
Field tests of various equipment, weather data was part
of the equation. How will particles spit from a dispenser
drift on the wind though the meadow ... I think this
was the '85 timeframe. Turbo-3 software - even found a
use for the Turtle Graphics ... the Turtle was a pointer
for the wind direction :-)

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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From: cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Date: 2 Sep 2021 06:02:43 GMT
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 by: Charlie Gibbs - Thu, 2 Sep 2021 06:02 UTC

On 2021-09-02, SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:

> As Winders move in further and further though ... I think
> they just COULDN'T keep their heads wrapped around it all
> and, profits in mind, they didn't CARE. MS was THE Os
> (and yes, MS is well-invested in Apple)

M$ gave Apple $150M to get the Department of Justice off their
backs. They realized that that if Apple went down, they'd be
unable to defend themselves against accusations that they are
a monopoly. They need Apple alive, but weak.

And then Apple got strong...

> and the mindset
> was that the world does it THEIR way or NO way. PAY,
> and DON'T complain.

And now Apple acts that way too.

> Which was a good part of why I was a very early Linux
> person :-)

I can use Windows and Apple systems, but Linux is the only
one in which I can actually feel comfortable.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | They don't understand Microsoft
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | has stolen their car and parked
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | a taxi in their driveway.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Mayayana

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

<87fsumsteu.fsf@usenet.ankman.de>

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From: ank@spamfence.net (Andreas Kohlbach)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Followup-To: alt.folklore.computers
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X-Face-What-Is-It: Capture Bee from Galaga
 by: Andreas Kohlbach - Thu, 2 Sep 2021 18:51 UTC

On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 01:10:09 -0400, SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:
>
> The IBM "portable" PC was the same idea - medium-suitcase sized,
> heavy as hell - very orange mini-screen - BUT you could put 640k
> and an 8087 in that one. Z80s, well, not so much .....

Didn't IBM came up with that after they saw the tremendous success of the
COMPAQ Portable (I think it was called "COMPAQ" when advertised). I seem
to remember the look came to be when two of the employees were on a lunch
break and put the design on a napkin.

> OK, OK ... at 300 baud those pictures might load up just
> a TAD slow ......

There was a Computer Chronicles episode about computer security in the
mid 80s, where a young hacker demonstrated how to break into a BBS. The
text appeared slow and the hacker mentioned something like "This 300 baud
is slow. I wished we had a 1200 baud modem - that would speed things up a
great deal". *g*

I F'up this into the folklore group. Cannot remember seen you there. You
might enjoy it.
--
Andreas

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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From: bliss@mouse-potato.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2021 13:25:43 -0700
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 by: Bobbie Sellers - Thu, 2 Sep 2021 20:25 UTC

On 9/2/21 11:51, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 01:10:09 -0400, SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:
>>
>> The IBM "portable" PC was the same idea - medium-suitcase sized,
>> heavy as hell - very orange mini-screen - BUT you could put 640k
>> and an 8087 in that one. Z80s, well, not so much .....
>
> Didn't IBM came up with that after they saw the tremendous success of the
> COMPAQ Portable (I think it was called "COMPAQ" when advertised). I seem
> to remember the look came to be when two of the employees were on a lunch
> break and put the design on a napkin.
>
>> OK, OK ... at 300 baud those pictures might load up just
>> a TAD slow ......
>
> There was a Computer Chronicles episode about computer security in the
> mid 80s, where a young hacker demonstrated how to break into a BBS. The
> text appeared slow and the hacker mentioned something like "This 300 baud
> is slow. I wished we had a 1200 baud modem - that would speed things up a
> great deal". *g*
>
> I F'up this into the folklore group. Cannot remember seen you there. You
> might enjoy it.
>

Anyone who paid attention knew a 300 baud modem was slow, 1200 baud was
a little better but I waited for the first cheap <$100 2400 baud device
was for sale at a computer show.
That was special.

bliss - boots & runs a Pretty Cool Linux Operating System aka pclinuxos.

--
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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From: ank@spamfence.net (Andreas Kohlbach)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2021 21:24:22 -0400
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X-Face-What-Is-It: Capture Bee from Galaga
 by: Andreas Kohlbach - Fri, 3 Sep 2021 01:24 UTC

On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 13:25:43 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>
> On 9/2/21 11:51, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>
>> There was a Computer Chronicles episode about computer security in
>> the
>> mid 80s, where a young hacker demonstrated how to break into a BBS. The
>> text appeared slow and the hacker mentioned something like "This 300 baud
>> is slow. I wished we had a 1200 baud modem - that would speed things up a
>> great deal". *g*
>> I F'up this into the folklore group. Cannot remember seen you
>> there. You
>> might enjoy it.
>>
>
> Anyone who paid attention knew a 300 baud modem was slow, 1200
> baud was a little better but I waited for the first cheap
> <$100 2400 baud device was for sale at a computer show.
> That was special.

Started with PCs in 1995 and had a 28,000 Modem. Used it in Windows 95
which came with the PC but also in pure MS-DOS. I think you could abort
the Windows boot and issue a parameter "gui=0" or something that Windows
was involved. Cannot remember what I used, but was using it for BBS.

Later in Linux (Hooray, were are on topic again ;-) - where I in 1997 had
no GUI due to hard disk space restrains - I used minicom.
--
Andreas

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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From: as@sci.fi (Anssi Saari)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2021 08:27:59 +0300
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 by: Anssi Saari - Fri, 3 Sep 2021 05:27 UTC

SixOverFive <hae274c.net> writes:

> I will still claim credit (surely unwarranted) for the Java
> idea. That was back in the dial-up BBS days. They were all
> text based and I said it might be nice to write TexTronic
> graphic terminal emulators for the common machines and
> export content in a format ALL could translate into nice
> graphical displays. Why, you might even be able to see
> PICTURES live in the posts !!!

I don't know what Java has to do with that but in a way it has become
reality as some terminal emulators these days support DEC's old sixel
graphics. These are bitmap graphics. Some apps support it too, so for
example you can use gnuplot to plot graphics right in the terminal if
you like.

Not a solution for 300 baud though.

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Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
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From: hae274c.net@nowhere (SixOverFive)
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2021 02:37:58 -0400
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 by: SixOverFive - Fri, 3 Sep 2021 06:37 UTC

On 9/2/21 2:02 AM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2021-09-02, SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:
>
>> As Winders move in further and further though ... I think
>> they just COULDN'T keep their heads wrapped around it all
>> and, profits in mind, they didn't CARE. MS was THE Os
>> (and yes, MS is well-invested in Apple)
>
> M$ gave Apple $150M to get the Department of Justice off their
> backs. They realized that that if Apple went down, they'd be
> unable to defend themselves against accusations that they are
> a monopoly. They need Apple alive, but weak.

Yep, that was the politic of the time. Jobs and some
others had paid their politicians to start anti-Trust
proceedings on MS - and Bill, oddly, had forgotten
to grease HIS reps.

But he learned.

> And then Apple got strong...

Well, relatively ....

>> and the mindset
>> was that the world does it THEIR way or NO way. PAY,
>> and DON'T complain.
>
> And now Apple acts that way too.

Most ALWAYS did. Apple is a de-facto "closed
system". However they cultivated the snooty
elite ... clever PR campaigns ... so Apple
users DON'T CARE how much 'heathen', affordable,
software they're being denied. Paying double/triple
shows how rich/important/stylish you are ! Apple
products are the modern Rolex.

>> Which was a good part of why I was a very early Linux
>> person :-)
>
> I can use Windows and Apple systems, but Linux is the only
> one in which I can actually feel comfortable.

I haven't had a Win/Apple "main system" in almost 20 YEARS.
ALWAYS Linux. No XP, no Vistas, no 7/8/9/10s.

I keep track of how to service/fix Winders crap, but I
won't USE it myself.

This is my brand-new SubNote ... came with Win-10. NEVER
EVEN LET IT BOOT. Immediately installed MX instead. Now
I have 80% of the little SSD free - instead of the 15%
I'd have had with Win.

One of my bigger concerns, these days especially, is how
much Win/IOS *spy* on you. Shit, Apple has just added code
to look for what it THINKS is kiddie porn on your system.
Got a pic of your 2-year-old NOT wearing a burquah ... you
are GUILTY - the robots SAY you are, can't debate them.
They BOTH keep VAST caches/thumbnails the NSA and far worse
can exploit. This is the Stasi horror times ten ..... ONLY
bad things can result.

Oh, for fun, search a Win-2K registry for "NSA" :-)

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
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 by: SixOverFive - Fri, 3 Sep 2021 07:19 UTC

On 9/2/21 2:51 PM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 01:10:09 -0400, SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:
>>
>> The IBM "portable" PC was the same idea - medium-suitcase sized,
>> heavy as hell - very orange mini-screen - BUT you could put 640k
>> and an 8087 in that one. Z80s, well, not so much .....
>
> Didn't IBM came up with that after they saw the tremendous success of the
> COMPAQ Portable (I think it was called "COMPAQ" when advertised). I seem
> to remember the look came to be when two of the employees were on a lunch
> break and put the design on a napkin.

Yep, it was intended as a direct competitor to the
Compaq "portable" ... and, at the time, also Osbourne
and KayPro.

But, like them, it was basically a desktop PC shoved
into a suitcase-sized box with a handle.

I was using the IBM-PPC for agricultural-product
research at the time. Wanted to see how certain
dusts would disperse in the wind across the fields.
Kept track of wind direction/speed and there were
sticky-slides at certain intervals in the bushes.
Got lots of neato pretty-colored wind-drift
charts out of that. From that, "average" dispersal
data could be gleaned, useful for real-world
application charts.

>> OK, OK ... at 300 baud those pictures might load up just
>> a TAD slow ......
>
> There was a Computer Chronicles episode about computer security in the
> mid 80s, where a young hacker demonstrated how to break into a BBS. The
> text appeared slow and the hacker mentioned something like "This 300 baud
> is slow. I wished we had a 1200 baud modem - that would speed things up a
> great deal". *g*

Heh ... yea yea ... I *remember*. Had one of those
'acoustic modems' in the beginning - you literally
squished the phone handpiece into them. My first
1200 baud was Anchor Robotics. VASTLY better. At
300 baud you could actually read the text real-time
as it came in. Oh well, there WERE slower baud rates
before then .........

Somewhere I have a Radio Shack "laptop" ... last
thing Gates actually wrote some code for. This was
WAY before real 'laptops'. They were VERY popular
with the Press - you could fit the acoustic coupler
into any phone in the world and send in your story.
(also had a direct-connect phone line capability -
it could dial tone or pulse AND deal with common
foreign systems). Ran on actual dry/alk BATTERIES
you could buy at any store.

> I F'up this into the folklore group. Cannot remember seen you there. You
> might enjoy it.

Having LIVED a lot of this "folklore" it doesn't seem
like nostalgic "lore" to me .....

But I did mostly miss the mainframe/mini days ...
only had to use punchcards/paper-tape ONCE in a
college class (which I dropped out of because
the school already had serial terminals that'd
do all that PLUS). The class was years behind
the reality ......

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
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From: hae274c.net@nowhere (SixOverFive)
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2021 03:38:07 -0400
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 by: SixOverFive - Fri, 3 Sep 2021 07:38 UTC

On 9/2/21 9:24 PM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 13:25:43 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>>
>> On 9/2/21 11:51, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>
>>> There was a Computer Chronicles episode about computer security in
>>> the
>>> mid 80s, where a young hacker demonstrated how to break into a BBS. The
>>> text appeared slow and the hacker mentioned something like "This 300 baud
>>> is slow. I wished we had a 1200 baud modem - that would speed things up a
>>> great deal". *g*
>>> I F'up this into the folklore group. Cannot remember seen you
>>> there. You
>>> might enjoy it.
>>>
>>
>> Anyone who paid attention knew a 300 baud modem was slow, 1200
>> baud was a little better but I waited for the first cheap
>> <$100 2400 baud device was for sale at a computer show.
>> That was special.
>
> Started with PCs in 1995 and had a 28,000 Modecm.

Wow - SO priviledged !!! :-)

300 baud is where I started, back in the early 80's.

You could literally read the text AS it came in.

But there were slower rates before that ...

> Used it in Windows 95

VIC-20s, Atari-400s, one LSI-11 box ... massive
overwhelming KILOBYTES of RAM :-)

> which came with the PC but also in pure MS-DOS. I think you could abort
> the Windows boot and issue a parameter "gui=0" or something that Windows
> was involved. Cannot remember what I used, but was using it for BBS.

BBS's were originally pre-IBM, pre-DOS. Mostly the
new consumer PCs of the era. A C64 was *advanced* ...

There WAS software that'd let you hook a C64 into a
bunch of multiplexed phone lines and cope with dozens
of users at once. Basically, the users were treated
as serial terminals connected to one 'server'.
Pretty impressive for literal megahertz boxes.

LOTS of them though. The best was one by BYTE magazine.
All the tech stuff. CompuServe came into the picture too.
Had large forums almost exactly like usenet (well, the
civil way usenet USED to be).

I had a serial terminal plugged into a 1200 baud modem
back then. It was fun. ATTD <phone number> .... type
it right.

> Later in Linux (Hooray, were are on topic again ;-) - where I in 1997 had
> no GUI due to hard disk space restrains - I used minicom.

There was Linux before there were GUIs for it. Came in
fairly early, but X was pretty beta/alpha for awhile
there ....

I'd always wanted UNIX ... but could not afford it. Linux
was the "cheap" quasi-UNIX and was thus very attractive.
Kinda junky at the start, but it got a little better ....

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

<sgslhc$djo$1@dont-email.me>

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2021 09:14:36 +0100
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Fri, 3 Sep 2021 08:14 UTC

On 03/09/2021 08:38, SixOverFive wrote:
> 300 baud is where I started, back in the early 80's.

I raise you 50 baud and an acoustic coupler early 1970s
My first experience of 'computer modelling' at the far end of the phone
line.

The model predicted results were of course nothing like the actual real
world result, because the model was far too simple.

Bit like Climate Change really, except instead of 50 baud and a
mainframe with less power than a z80, we have gigabit speeds and a
supercomputer to calculate answers predicated on assumptions too
simplistic to have any real world value.

That's PROGRESS.

--
“It is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of
making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people
who pay no price for being wrong.”

Thomas Sowell

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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 by: Scott Lurndal - Fri, 3 Sep 2021 14:00 UTC

SixOverFive <hae274c.net> writes:
>On 9/2/21 2:51 PM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:

>> There was a Computer Chronicles episode about computer security in the
>> mid 80s, where a young hacker demonstrated how to break into a BBS. The
>> text appeared slow and the hacker mentioned something like "This 300 baud
>> is slow. I wished we had a 1200 baud modem - that would speed things up a
>> great deal". *g*
>
> Heh ... yea yea ... I *remember*. Had one of those
> 'acoustic modems' in the beginning - you literally
> squished the phone handpiece into them. My first
> 1200 baud was Anchor Robotics. VASTLY better. At
> 300 baud you could actually read the text real-time
> as it came in. Oh well, there WERE slower baud rates
> before then .........

Try 110 baud with an ASR-33. Switching to 300 baud on
a LA-120 was blazing fast...

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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From: ank@spamfence.net (Andreas Kohlbach)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2021 12:13:13 -0400
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 by: Andreas Kohlbach - Fri, 3 Sep 2021 16:13 UTC

On Fri, 3 Sep 2021 03:38:07 -0400, SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:
>
> On 9/2/21 9:24 PM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 13:25:43 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone who paid attention knew a 300 baud modem was slow, 1200
>>> baud was a little better but I waited for the first cheap
>>> <$100 2400 baud device was for sale at a computer show.
>>> That was special.
>> Started with PCs in 1995 and had a 28,000 Modecm.
>
> Wow - SO priviledged !!! :-)
>
> 300 baud is where I started, back in the early 80's.

I was so underprivileged to miss the early days in micro-computing. And
when I finally had my first (Commodore 64 in late 1984) no one had a
modem. It was too expensive and the next BBS was a long distance call away.

> You could literally read the text AS it came in.

One of the days back then borrowed an acoustic coupler. There you could
read the text as it came in. And hold your farts, as it would disrupt the
connection. There was no error correction (or we didn't knew about it) so
garbage was then printed on the screen. *g*
--
Andreas

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2021 17:44:37 +0100
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 by: Ahem A Rivet's - Fri, 3 Sep 2021 16:44 UTC

On Fri, 03 Sep 2021 14:00:34 GMT
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

> Try 110 baud with an ASR-33.

We found it very useful in 1974, turn on punch both ends and run
tapes through the readers at each end to get two way data transfer with
hard copy.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/

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From: jclarke.873638@gmail.com (J. Clarke)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Message-ID: <b164jgt5pl8tuuu7gs8s4gtjd6ldsf4tao@4ax.com>
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Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2021 14:11:42 -0400
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 by: J. Clarke - Fri, 3 Sep 2021 18:11 UTC

On Fri, 3 Sep 2021 03:19:54 -0400, SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:

>On 9/2/21 2:51 PM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 01:10:09 -0400, SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> The IBM "portable" PC was the same idea - medium-suitcase sized,
>>> heavy as hell - very orange mini-screen - BUT you could put 640k
>>> and an 8087 in that one. Z80s, well, not so much .....
>>
>> Didn't IBM came up with that after they saw the tremendous success of the
>> COMPAQ Portable (I think it was called "COMPAQ" when advertised). I seem
>> to remember the look came to be when two of the employees were on a lunch
>> break and put the design on a napkin.
>
> Yep, it was intended as a direct competitor to the
> Compaq "portable" ... and, at the time, also Osbourne
> and KayPro.
>
> But, like them, it was basically a desktop PC shoved
> into a suitcase-sized box with a handle.
>
> I was using the IBM-PPC for agricultural-product
> research at the time. Wanted to see how certain
> dusts would disperse in the wind across the fields.
> Kept track of wind direction/speed and there were
> sticky-slides at certain intervals in the bushes.
> Got lots of neato pretty-colored wind-drift
> charts out of that. From that, "average" dispersal
> data could be gleaned, useful for real-world
> application charts.
>
>>> OK, OK ... at 300 baud those pictures might load up just
>>> a TAD slow ......
>>
>> There was a Computer Chronicles episode about computer security in the
>> mid 80s, where a young hacker demonstrated how to break into a BBS. The
>> text appeared slow and the hacker mentioned something like "This 300 baud
>> is slow. I wished we had a 1200 baud modem - that would speed things up a
>> great deal". *g*
>
> Heh ... yea yea ... I *remember*. Had one of those
> 'acoustic modems' in the beginning - you literally
> squished the phone handpiece into them. My first
> 1200 baud was Anchor Robotics. VASTLY better. At
> 300 baud you could actually read the text real-time
> as it came in. Oh well, there WERE slower baud rates
> before then .........
>
> Somewhere I have a Radio Shack "laptop" ... last
> thing Gates actually wrote some code for. This was
> WAY before real 'laptops'. They were VERY popular
> with the Press - you could fit the acoustic coupler
> into any phone in the world and send in your story.
> (also had a direct-connect phone line capability -
> it could dial tone or pulse AND deal with common
> foreign systems). Ran on actual dry/alk BATTERIES
> you could buy at any store.
>
>> I F'up this into the folklore group. Cannot remember seen you there. You
>> might enjoy it.
>
> Having LIVED a lot of this "folklore" it doesn't seem
> like nostalgic "lore" to me .....
>
> But I did mostly miss the mainframe/mini days ...
> only had to use punchcards/paper-tape ONCE in a
> college class (which I dropped out of because
> the school already had serial terminals that'd
> do all that PLUS). The class was years behind
> the reality ......

Some professors are like that. I remember helping an undergrad find
the keypunch (I was a computer science grad student and I didn't even
know the school _had_ a keypunch or card reader until that came up).
Seems he was taking a programming course from somebody in the
chemistry department and that idiot insisted that his students use
cards because that's what they'd be working with in the real world. I
ended up having to go dig up an operator.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

<20210903195345.1fe658b46921b8bcfff7a36e@eircom.net>

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From: steveo@eircom.net (Ahem A Rivet's Shot)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2021 19:53:45 +0100
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 by: Ahem A Rivet's - Fri, 3 Sep 2021 18:53 UTC

On Fri, 03 Sep 2021 14:11:42 -0400
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

> and that idiot insisted that his students use
> cards because that's what they'd be working with in the real world.

Reminds me of the A level computer science course I wished I hadn't
taken - the year before it had been all about machine architecture,
assembly language programming, data structures and algorithms, fun stuff.
But I wasn't allowed to take it that year (because I was taking my O
levels) I had to wait and take it the following year and so the course I
got to take was COBOL, systems analysis and data validation and not what I
had been looking forward to at all. But it was "what we'd be working with
in the real world" or so I was told when I moaned about the change.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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From: usenet@only.tnx (Questor)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
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 by: Questor - Fri, 3 Sep 2021 19:34 UTC

On Fri, 3 Sep 2021 03:19:54 -0400, SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:
>But I did mostly miss the mainframe/mini days ...
>only had to use punchcards/paper-tape ONCE in a
>college class (which I dropped out of because
>the school already had serial terminals that'd
>do all that PLUS). The class was years behind
>the reality

I'm glad I had the opportunity to have some first-hand experience with the
"submit a deck of punched cards" model of computing in college. I'm even
gladder that timewharing was an option and I didn't have to use punched
cards very long.

I also used paper tape as one of the boot loaders for a DEC KI-10.

I'm thankful I got to use those things and get my feet wet, so to speak, in that
part of computing history. It's even better that those experiences were
peripheral, not central, to my computing activities.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

<601278435.652395486.631602.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>

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From: peter_flass@yahoo.com (Peter Flass)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2021 13:59:26 -0700
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 by: Peter Flass - Fri, 3 Sep 2021 20:59 UTC

Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 03 Sep 2021 14:11:42 -0400
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> and that idiot insisted that his students use
>> cards because that's what they'd be working with in the real world.
>
> Reminds me of the A level computer science course I wished I hadn't
> taken - the year before it had been all about machine architecture,
> assembly language programming, data structures and algorithms, fun stuff.
> But I wasn't allowed to take it that year (because I was taking my O
> levels) I had to wait and take it the following year and so the course I
> got to take was COBOL, systems analysis and data validation and not what I
> had been looking forward to at all. But it was "what we'd be working with
> in the real world" or so I was told when I moaned about the change.
>

COBOL programmers are still in demand, apparently.

--
Pete

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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From: ank@spamfence.net (Andreas Kohlbach)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
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X-Face-What-Is-It: Capture Bee from Galaga
 by: Andreas Kohlbach - Fri, 3 Sep 2021 23:57 UTC

On Fri, 3 Sep 2021 03:19:54 -0400, SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:
>
> On 9/2/21 2:51 PM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>
>> I F'up this into the folklore group. Cannot remember seen you there. You
>> might enjoy it.
>
> Having LIVED a lot of this "folklore" it doesn't seem
> like nostalgic "lore" to me .....

We're talking nostalgia/folklore, but not (or just as side note) about
Linux in recent articles... So I set the F'up.
--
Andreas

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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From: jclarke.873638@gmail.com (J. Clarke)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
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 by: J. Clarke - Sat, 4 Sep 2021 00:18 UTC

On Fri, 3 Sep 2021 13:59:26 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, 03 Sep 2021 14:11:42 -0400
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> and that idiot insisted that his students use
>>> cards because that's what they'd be working with in the real world.
>>
>> Reminds me of the A level computer science course I wished I hadn't
>> taken - the year before it had been all about machine architecture,
>> assembly language programming, data structures and algorithms, fun stuff.
>> But I wasn't allowed to take it that year (because I was taking my O
>> levels) I had to wait and take it the following year and so the course I
>> got to take was COBOL, systems analysis and data validation and not what I
>> had been looking forward to at all. But it was "what we'd be working with
>> in the real world" or so I was told when I moaned about the change.
>>
>
>COBOL programmers are still in demand, apparently.

They are. Unfortunately these days to get a job you have to move to
India and be willing to work for an Indian wage. It's a _good_ Indian
wage mind you, I understand you can live comfortably on it, but it's
below US minimum.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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From: hae274c.net@nowhere (SixOverFive)
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2021 01:01:20 -0400
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 by: SixOverFive - Sat, 4 Sep 2021 05:01 UTC

On 9/3/21 4:14 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 03/09/2021 08:38, SixOverFive wrote:
>> 300 baud is where I started, back in the early 80's.
>
> I raise you 50 baud and an acoustic coupler early 1970s

Well played sir :-)

Yes, there WAS a time when 300 baud was magically advanced :-)

> My first experience of 'computer modelling' at the far end of the phone
> line.
>
> The model predicted results were of course nothing like the actual real
> world result, because the model was far too simple.

"Models" are almost always that way alas .... the
Real World is MESSY and infested with Butterflies.

In the old days, these "modelers" would be walking the
streets in togas, carrying "REPENT- THE END IS NEAR"
signs. NOW, it's Prime Time, book/movie deals, testimony
before Congress. Maybe the end IS near ? First-world
societies - SO dependent on efficient, sane, practical,
interconnectivity - fall first and hardest .......

And the horsemen of The Horde follows closely.

The LATEST trend has been to deliberately SABOTAGE "AI"
systems that, after crunching petabytes of data, arrive
at conclusions not in keeping with the latest social/policial/
economic 'PC' orthodoxies. What's THAT say ? "The Science",
but ONLY if it's saying what you want to hear.

> Bit like Climate Change really, except instead of 50 baud and a
> mainframe with less power than a z80, we have gigabit speeds and a
> supercomputer to calculate answers predicated on assumptions too
> simplistic to have any real world value.

GIGO ... *now* at a million times the speed :-)

> That's PROGRESS.

Maybe that guy on TV is right - buy LOTS of gold
and move to Namibia or somewhere WAY off the grid ....

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

<s_mdnXRDeMbXnK78nZ2dnUU7-TvNnZ2d@earthlink.com>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=7552&group=comp.os.linux.misc#7552

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NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2021 00:16:58 -0500
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
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From: hae274c.net@nowhere (SixOverFive)
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2021 01:16:57 -0400
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 by: SixOverFive - Sat, 4 Sep 2021 05:16 UTC

On 9/3/21 12:13 PM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Sep 2021 03:38:07 -0400, SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:
>>
>> On 9/2/21 9:24 PM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>> On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 13:25:43 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>>>
>>>> Anyone who paid attention knew a 300 baud modem was slow, 1200
>>>> baud was a little better but I waited for the first cheap
>>>> <$100 2400 baud device was for sale at a computer show.
>>>> That was special.
>>> Started with PCs in 1995 and had a 28,000 Modecm.
>>
>> Wow - SO priviledged !!! :-)
>>
>> 300 baud is where I started, back in the early 80's.
>
> I was so underprivileged to miss the early days in micro-computing. And
> when I finally had my first (Commodore 64 in late 1984) no one had a
> modem. It was too expensive and the next BBS was a long distance call away.

There WERE modems for C64s ... but they WERE kind of expensive.
I spent a lot of my poor paychecks on PC hardware back then ...

And yes, many BBS's were long-distance calls.

Liked the old BYTE Mag BBS though - toll free number.

And somewhere in there was Compuserve - affordable.
It had forums MUCH like usenet, albeit more civil.
For kicks I used an old serial terminal plugged into
a modem - no "system"/OS at all.

MAY find ways to go back to something like that,
given modern issues .......

Alas when CS started losing money to the internet it
changed a bunch of policies/procedures and you could
not even un-subscribe - NO way to contact a human.
Eventually I went to the bank and had them REJECT
any and all charges from CS. CS didn't like it -
even issued threats - but TOUGH. They never got
another dime.

>> You could literally read the text AS it came in.
>
> One of the days back then borrowed an acoustic coupler. There you could
> read the text as it came in. And hold your farts, as it would disrn.upt the
> connection. There was no error correction (or we didn't knew about it) so
> garbage was then printed on the screen. *g*

Yep. There WAS error-correction, but BARELY. Random
noises COULD be interpreted as data.

The fun fun Bad Old Days :-)

And it WAS fun.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

<sqOdnSja5Jm0m678nZ2dnUU7-VPNnZ2d@earthlink.com>

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Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
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<874kbc18bn.fsf@usenet.ankman.de> <sg8gn8$78h$1@dont-email.me>
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From: hae274c.net@nowhere (SixOverFive)
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2021 01:37:44 -0400
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 by: SixOverFive - Sat, 4 Sep 2021 05:37 UTC

On 9/1/21 12:21 AM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2021-08-31, SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:
>
>> On 08/30/2021 10:03 AM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>
>>> On 2021-08-30, SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 08/29/2021 08:51 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If all else fails, you can always re-write it.
>>>>> As another old saying goes:
>>>>>
>>>>> There's never time to do it right,
>>>>> but always time to do it over.
>>>>
>>>> Only if you live in Mom's basement.
>>>>
>>>> In a pay-by-the-hour environment you CAN'T do it
>>>> over and over and over again.
>>>
>>> Not over and over and over, perhaps. But given a
>>> sufficiently crappy design, vague and/or conflicting
>>> specs, and a steady stream of ill-conceived change
>>> requests, the system will eventually fall apart,
>>> at which time even the dumbest managers will realize
>>> that a re-write is in order.
>>
>> The Boss wants PRODUCT, PROFIT - and he/she/it
>> wants it NOW. Doesn't MATTER if it's a crappy
>> un-extensible un-supportable design, just has
>> to LOOK GOOD so the advertisers can SELL it.
>
> And that will work until that crappy un-extensible
> un-supportable design can't keep up with requirements.
> But that's next year's problem, over the event horizon
> for companies interested solely in the current quarter's
> bottom line. If everything crashes next year... well,
> if the boss is really clever he'll have his golden
> parachute packed and ready for use.
>
>> And that's The Truth about far far more software
>> than you'd like to believe. Wonder how those
>> eastern-bloc teenagers keep getting into all
>> our stuff ? NOW you know why.
>
> Not just eastern-bloc teenagers? Windows looks great,
> works crappy, and has security holes you can drive a
> truck through - some of them by design.
>
>> If you want GOOD software (and hardware) look
>> to the people who design NASA planetary probes.
>> Ultra-resistant to corruption, always ways to
>> get around damage. Those systems are a marvel.
>> They're also part of the reason those probes
>> COST so much and take a decade+ to design.
>
> Yes, but that software is so _boring_! No fancy but
> meaningless graphics, no futzing around behind your
> back - just columns of numbers that are meaningless
> to those who don't know what they're doing, but
> priceless to those who do.

Yea ! SUBSTANCE over Style ... what BARBARIANS !!!

> My philosophy is that systems should be ugly and boring.
> Ugly because they have no glitzy graphics that get in the
> way, and boring because they just do what they're supposed
> to do without unpleasant surprise

Then the Real World has little left for you (and I) ...

>> "Dilbert" is a LOT more true than most think.
>> The writer spend a long time at IBM and similar
>> houses until he just couldn't take the BS
>> anymore .....
>
> Paraphrasing Voltaire:
>
> If Dilbert did not exist, it would
> be necessary to invent him.

Unfortunately, VERY unfortunately, there are a LOT
of Dilberts, caught in the SAME jungle of pointy-haired
bosses, suffering out there ..

But fear not, the Style-over-Substance cadre WILL soon
take their places ... I'll all LOOK so Great !!!

Last month the Hubble telescope went down, hard. The
main computer just CROAKED - probably bad memory chips.
Radiation can do that. But, a few weeks later, the NASA
types had the thing running again - because there were
ways to redirect connections to a few other little
computers on the thing that were never designed to manage
the whole scope. Now it works. AMAZING.*These* are the
kinds of programmers/engineers I really respect. I know
I'm not even in their league.

I've been actively persueing VMs lately - DOS, CP/M -
Some cross-compiling and you can burn it into actual
chips. Sometimes you need to revisit the past so you
can construct a better future.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

<uvydnTnAkP4o0qn8nZ2dnUU7-aXNnZ2d@earthlink.com>

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NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2021 00:03:49 -0500
Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
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From: hae274c.net@nowhere (SixOverFive)
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2021 01:03:48 -0400
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 by: SixOverFive - Sun, 5 Sep 2021 05:03 UTC

On 9/3/21 1:27 AM, Anssi Saari wrote:
> SixOverFive <hae274c.net> writes:
>
>> I will still claim credit (surely unwarranted) for the Java
>> idea. That was back in the dial-up BBS days. They were all
>> text based and I said it might be nice to write TexTronic
>> graphic terminal emulators for the common machines and
>> export content in a format ALL could translate into nice
>> graphical displays. Why, you might even be able to see
>> PICTURES live in the posts !!!
>
> I don't know what Java has to do with that but in a way it has become
> reality as some terminal emulators these days support DEC's old sixel
> graphics. These are bitmap graphics. Some apps support it too, so for
> example you can use gnuplot to plot graphics right in the terminal if
> you like.
>
> Not a solution for 300 baud though.

Well, Java is a "virtual machine". You write an
interpreter for each platform and then your Java
runs on ALL of them.

As I recall, the TexTronic terminals were VECTOR
graphics, not bitmap. Point(x,y), Line(x1,y1,x2,y2).
You really could produce a decent GUI experience at
low baud rates. Not quite the modern capability, but
we're talking the 1980s here and ANYTHING would have
been an improvement.

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

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Subject: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
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 by: SixOverFive - Sun, 5 Sep 2021 05:40 UTC

On 9/3/21 2:11 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Sep 2021 03:19:54 -0400, SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:
>
>> On 9/2/21 2:51 PM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>> On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 01:10:09 -0400, SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The IBM "portable" PC was the same idea - medium-suitcase sized,
>>>> heavy as hell - very orange mini-screen - BUT you could put 640k
>>>> and an 8087 in that one. Z80s, well, not so much .....
>>>
>>> Didn't IBM came up with that after they saw the tremendous success of the
>>> COMPAQ Portable (I think it was called "COMPAQ" when advertised). I seem
>>> to remember the look came to be when two of the employees were on a lunch
>>> break and put the design on a napkin.
>>
>> Yep, it was intended as a direct competitor to the
>> Compaq "portable" ... and, at the time, also Osbourne
>> and KayPro.
>>
>> But, like them, it was basically a desktop PC shoved
>> into a suitcase-sized box with a handle.
>>
>> I was using the IBM-PPC for agricultural-product
>> research at the time. Wanted to see how certain
>> dusts would disperse in the wind across the fields.
>> Kept track of wind direction/speed and there were
>> sticky-slides at certain intervals in the bushes.
>> Got lots of neato pretty-colored wind-drift
>> charts out of that. From that, "average" dispersal
>> data could be gleaned, useful for real-world
>> application charts.
>>
>>>> OK, OK ... at 300 baud those pictures might load up just
>>>> a TAD slow ......
>>>
>>> There was a Computer Chronicles episode about computer security in the
>>> mid 80s, where a young hacker demonstrated how to break into a BBS. The
>>> text appeared slow and the hacker mentioned something like "This 300 baud
>>> is slow. I wished we had a 1200 baud modem - that would speed things up a
>>> great deal". *g*
>>
>> Heh ... yea yea ... I *remember*. Had one of those
>> 'acoustic modems' in the beginning - you literally
>> squished the phone handpiece into them. My first
>> 1200 baud was Anchor Robotics. VASTLY better. At
>> 300 baud you could actually read the text real-time
>> as it came in. Oh well, there WERE slower baud rates
>> before then .........
>>
>> Somewhere I have a Radio Shack "laptop" ... last
>> thing Gates actually wrote some code for. This was
>> WAY before real 'laptops'. They were VERY popular
>> with the Press - you could fit the acoustic coupler
>> into any phone in the world and send in your story.
>> (also had a direct-connect phone line capability -
>> it could dial tone or pulse AND deal with common
>> foreign systems). Ran on actual dry/alk BATTERIES
>> you could buy at any store.
>>
>>> I F'up this into the folklore group. Cannot remember seen you there. You
>>> might enjoy it.
>>
>> Having LIVED a lot of this "folklore" it doesn't seem
>> like nostalgic "lore" to me .....
>>
>> But I did mostly miss the mainframe/mini days ...
>> only had to use punchcards/paper-tape ONCE in a
>> college class (which I dropped out of because
>> the school already had serial terminals that'd
>> do all that PLUS). The class was years behind
>> the reality ......
>
> Some professors are like that. I remember helping an undergrad find
> the keypunch (I was a computer science grad student and I didn't even
> know the school _had_ a keypunch or card reader until that came up).
> Seems he was taking a programming course from somebody in the
> chemistry department and that idiot insisted that his students use
> cards because that's what they'd be working with in the real world. I
> ended up having to go dig up an operator.

PART of the problem is that the computer world was
evolving SO fast back then. What was State Of The
Art one year was Obsolete Crap the next.

So, the prof wasn't necessarily stupid - but perhaps
just a SINGLE year behind the curve.

Some of the bigger data centers DID hang on to cards
and tape for quite awhile after they were officially
obsolete. They'd invested big $$$ in that equipment
and were gonna USE it (and had blown their new
equipment budgets on it). So, the punch-card experience
wasn't necessarily useless, depending on where the
student was going to wind up.

Oh, go shopping ... they DO still sell cartridge-tape
backup units still - they're up to three or four TB
now and cost lots of $$$. Clearly there's a market
for that 60s/70s/80s style tech, certain niches.

Microprocessors were a New Frontier back then, and a
certain democratization for invention that hadn't been
seen since the latter 1800s with Edison/Tesla/Marconi/
Deforest. You didn't need a 200 IQ and a big development
team to come up with and make use of really neat
innovations. Lots that came out of that period is
STILL in play now. Often, laziness was the Mother
Of All Invention - "This SUCKS ... how can I make
it easier/better ?".

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