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computers / comp.os.linux.misc / Re: What's the best linux distro?

SubjectAuthor
* Re: What's the best linux distro?F Russell
+* Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E.R.
|`* Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
| `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Jimmy Johnson
|  +* Re: What's the best linux distro?Robert Riches
|  |`- Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
|  `* Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
|   `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Rich
|    +* Re: What's the best linux distro?Jasen Betts
|    |`- Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
|    `- Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
+* Re: What's the best linux distro?F Russell
|`* Re: What's the best linux distro?SixOverFive
| +- Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
| +* Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E.R.
| |+* Re: What's the best linux distro?Richard Kettlewell
| ||`* Re: X-post and follow-Up (Was: What's the best linux distro?)Carlos E.R.
| || `* Re: X-post and follow-UpBud Frede
| ||  `- Re: X-post and follow-UpCarlos E. R.
| |+* Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
| ||`* Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E.R.
| || +* Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| || |+- Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E.R.
| || |+* Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
| || ||+- Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| || ||+* Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E.R.
| || |||+* Re: What's the best linux distro?Stéphane CARPENTIER
| || ||||+- Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E. R.
| || ||||`* Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
| || |||| +- Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E. R.
| || |||| `- Re: What's the best linux distro?Marc Haber
| || |||`* Re: What's the best linux distro?Bud Frede
| || ||| `- Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E. R.
| || ||`* Re: What's the best linux distro?Stéphane CARPENTIER
| || || `- Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
| || |+* Re: What's the best linux distro?Bobbie Sellers
| || ||+* Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| || |||`* Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E. R.
| || ||| `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Stéphane CARPENTIER
| || |||  `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| || |||   +* Re: What's the best linux distro?Stéphane CARPENTIER
| || |||   |`- Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| || |||   `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E. R.
| || |||    `- Re: What's the best linux distro?Aragorn
| || ||`* Re: What's the best linux distro?Bud Frede
| || || `- Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E. R.
| || |`* Re: What's the best linux distro?Bud Frede
| || | +- Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E. R.
| || | `- Re: What's the best linux distro?Aragorn
| || +* Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
| || |+* Re: What's the best linux distro?Robert Latest
| || ||+- Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
| || ||`* Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E.R.
| || || `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Robert Latest
| || ||  `- Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E.R.
| || |+- Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| || |+* Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| || ||`* Re: What's the best linux distro?Stéphane CARPENTIER
| || || `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Marc Haber
| || ||  `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Stéphane CARPENTIER
| || ||   `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| || ||    `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Richard Kettlewell
| || ||     `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| || ||      `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Richard Kettlewell
| || ||       `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| || ||        +* Re: What's the best linux distro?Richard Kettlewell
| || ||        |`* Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| || ||        | `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Richard Kettlewell
| || ||        |  +- Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E. R.
| || ||        |  `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| || ||        |   `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Richard Kettlewell
| || ||        |    `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| || ||        |     +- Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
| || ||        |     `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Richard Kettlewell
| || ||        |      `* Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
| || ||        |       `- Re: What's the best linux distro?Eli the Bearded
| || ||        `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Stéphane CARPENTIER
| || ||         +- Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E. R.
| || ||         `- Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| || |`* Re: What's the best linux distro?Richard Kettlewell
| || | `* Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
| || |  `- Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E.R.
| || `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Richard Kettlewell
| ||  +* Re: What's the best linux distro?jjb
| ||  |`* Re: What's the best linux distro?Bobbie Sellers
| ||  | +- Re: What's the best linux distro?Aragorn
| ||  | `- Re: What's the best linux distro?Bud Frede
| ||  +* Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| ||  |`- Re: What's the best linux distro?Richard Kettlewell
| ||  `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E.R.
| ||   `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Bud Frede
| ||    `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E. R.
| ||     `- Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
| |+* Re: What's the best linux distro?Jimmy Johnson
| ||+* Re: What's the best linux distro?Robert Latest
| |||`- Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E.R.
| ||+* Re: What's the best linux distro?Aragorn
| |||+* Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| ||||`* Re: What's the best linux distro?Aragorn
| |||| `- Re: What's the best linux distro?J.O. Aho
| |||`* Re: What's the best linux distro?Bud Frede
| ||`- Re: What's the best linux distro?Stéphane CARPENTIER
| |`- Re: What's the best linux distro?Branimir Maksimovic
| `- Re: What's the best linux distro?Stéphane CARPENTIER
`- Re: What's the best linux distro?SixOverFive

Pages:12345
Re: What's the best linux distro?

<sgh85b$4f7$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=7452&group=comp.os.linux.misc#7452

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: dan1espen@gmail.com (Dan Espen)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: What's the best linux distro?
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 20:18:50 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Dan Espen - Mon, 30 Aug 2021 00:18 UTC

Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:

> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>>>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>>> Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> writes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I never said systemd is easy to understand. It would be a lie. But
>>>>>>>>> saying SysV is easy would be a lie too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Funny you should say systemd is not easy to understand. I can't
>>>>>>>> imagine a simpler system. One file type for configuration with the
>>>>>>>> simplest syntax possible, and just a few keywords to know about.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A simple config file syntax doesn’t make a system easy to understand.
>>>>>>> There are thousands of lines of man pages containing over 160 options,
>>>>>>> with an implementation exceeding half a million lines of C. It’s not
>>>>>>> badly documented, but it’s a complex system and it’s silly to pretend
>>>>>>> there’s no learning curve here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where is the user interface? With initd, it's that pile of scripts,
>>>>>> each one a custom creation and a forest of symbolic links.
>>>>>> Where is the learning curve compared to systemd's simple config file
>>>>>> syntax?
>>>>>
>>>>> I have no idea why you’re focussing on the config file syntax, since
>>>>> there’s a lot more to systemd (or any nontrivial init) than that.
>>>>
>>>> It's the only visible user interface.
>>>
>>> systemd.syntax is tiny indeed, but if that’s all someone reads they will
>>> still have no idea how to write or interpret a unit file.
>>
>> "No idea"? Hardly.
>> Have you looked?
>
> Yes, I have written a number.
>
>> They seem pretty straight forward to me.
>
> Go on then, explain how to write a unit file that actually does
> something useful, using only information in `man systemd.syntax`.

Here is the existing emacs.service file on my system:

[Unit]
Description=Emacs: the extensible, self-documenting text editor

[Service]
Type=forking
ExecStart=/usr/bin/emacs --daemon
ExecStop=/usr/bin/emacsclient --eval "(kill-emacs)"
Restart=always

[Install]
WantedBy=default.target

If I wanted to add arguments to emacs I'd change the ExecStart line.

No reference to the man page is required.

--
Dan Espen

Re: What's the best linux distro?

<871r6bief4.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=7459&group=comp.os.linux.misc#7459

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!news.nntp4.net!nntp.terraraq.uk!.POSTED.nntp.terraraq.uk!not-for-mail
From: invalid@invalid.invalid (Richard Kettlewell)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: What's the best linux distro?
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2021 08:23:43 +0100
Organization: terraraq NNTP server
Message-ID: <871r6bief4.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk>
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F<\{jehn7.KrO{!7=:(@J~]<.[{>v9!1<qZY,{EJxg6?Er4Y7Ng2\Ft>Z&W?r\c.!4DXH5PWpga"ha
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 by: Richard Kettlewell - Mon, 30 Aug 2021 07:23 UTC

Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:

> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>>> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>>>>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>> Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> writes:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I never said systemd is easy to understand. It would be a lie. But
>>>>>>>>>> saying SysV is easy would be a lie too.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Funny you should say systemd is not easy to understand. I can't
>>>>>>>>> imagine a simpler system. One file type for configuration with the
>>>>>>>>> simplest syntax possible, and just a few keywords to know about.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A simple config file syntax doesn’t make a system easy to understand.
>>>>>>>> There are thousands of lines of man pages containing over 160 options,
>>>>>>>> with an implementation exceeding half a million lines of C. It’s not
>>>>>>>> badly documented, but it’s a complex system and it’s silly to pretend
>>>>>>>> there’s no learning curve here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Where is the user interface? With initd, it's that pile of scripts,
>>>>>>> each one a custom creation and a forest of symbolic links.
>>>>>>> Where is the learning curve compared to systemd's simple config file
>>>>>>> syntax?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have no idea why you’re focussing on the config file syntax, since
>>>>>> there’s a lot more to systemd (or any nontrivial init) than that.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's the only visible user interface.
>>>>
>>>> systemd.syntax is tiny indeed, but if that’s all someone reads they will
>>>> still have no idea how to write or interpret a unit file.
>>>
>>> "No idea"? Hardly.
>>> Have you looked?
>>
>> Yes, I have written a number.
>>
>>> They seem pretty straight forward to me.
>>
>> Go on then, explain how to write a unit file that actually does
>> something useful, using only information in `man systemd.syntax`.
>
> Here is the existing emacs.service file on my system:
>
> [Unit]
> Description=Emacs: the extensible, self-documenting text editor
>
> [Service]
> Type=forking
> ExecStart=/usr/bin/emacs --daemon
> ExecStop=/usr/bin/emacsclient --eval "(kill-emacs)"
> Restart=always
>
> [Install]
> WantedBy=default.target
>
> If I wanted to add arguments to emacs I'd change the ExecStart line.
>
> No reference to the man page is required.

Cargo-culting one example is a bit different to understanding the
system. If you wanted to do anything even slightly different you’d need
to read the manual. Which isn’t unreasonable, but it’s a long way beyond
knowing the config file surface syntax.

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

Re: What's the best linux distro?

<sgihdk$u1r$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=7461&group=comp.os.linux.misc#7461

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc alt.os.linux
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: dan1espen@gmail.com (Dan Espen)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: What's the best linux distro?
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2021 08:02:59 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Dan Espen - Mon, 30 Aug 2021 12:02 UTC

Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:

> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>>>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>>> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>>>>>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>>> Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I never said systemd is easy to understand. It would be a lie. But
>>>>>>>>>>> saying SysV is easy would be a lie too.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Funny you should say systemd is not easy to understand. I can't
>>>>>>>>>> imagine a simpler system. One file type for configuration with the
>>>>>>>>>> simplest syntax possible, and just a few keywords to know about.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A simple config file syntax doesn’t make a system easy to understand.
>>>>>>>>> There are thousands of lines of man pages containing over 160 options,
>>>>>>>>> with an implementation exceeding half a million lines of C. It’s not
>>>>>>>>> badly documented, but it’s a complex system and it’s silly to pretend
>>>>>>>>> there’s no learning curve here.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Where is the user interface? With initd, it's that pile of scripts,
>>>>>>>> each one a custom creation and a forest of symbolic links.
>>>>>>>> Where is the learning curve compared to systemd's simple config file
>>>>>>>> syntax?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have no idea why you’re focussing on the config file syntax, since
>>>>>>> there’s a lot more to systemd (or any nontrivial init) than that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's the only visible user interface.
>>>>>
>>>>> systemd.syntax is tiny indeed, but if that’s all someone reads they will
>>>>> still have no idea how to write or interpret a unit file.
>>>>
>>>> "No idea"? Hardly.
>>>> Have you looked?
>>>
>>> Yes, I have written a number.
>>>
>>>> They seem pretty straight forward to me.
>>>
>>> Go on then, explain how to write a unit file that actually does
>>> something useful, using only information in `man systemd.syntax`.
>>
>> Here is the existing emacs.service file on my system:
>>
>> [Unit]
>> Description=Emacs: the extensible, self-documenting text editor
>>
>> [Service]
>> Type=forking
>> ExecStart=/usr/bin/emacs --daemon
>> ExecStop=/usr/bin/emacsclient --eval "(kill-emacs)"
>> Restart=always
>>
>> [Install]
>> WantedBy=default.target
>>
>> If I wanted to add arguments to emacs I'd change the ExecStart line.
>>
>> No reference to the man page is required.
>
> Cargo-culting one example is a bit different to understanding the
> system. If you wanted to do anything even slightly different you’d need
> to read the manual. Which isn’t unreasonable, but it’s a long way beyond
> knowing the config file surface syntax.

I was asked for an example, I gave it.
Not enough for you?
I'm wasting my time.

Cargo cult:

A cargo cult is an indigenist millenarian belief system in which
adherents perform rituals which they believe will cause a more
technologically advanced society to deliver goods.

WTF?

--
Dan Espen

Re: What's the best linux distro?

<sgim9h$2np$1@dont-email.me>

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: What's the best linux distro?
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2021 14:26:09 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Mon, 30 Aug 2021 13:26 UTC

On 30/08/2021 13:02, Dan Espen wrote:
> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
>
>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>>>>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>>>>>>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>> Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I never said systemd is easy to understand. It would be a lie. But
>>>>>>>>>>>> saying SysV is easy would be a lie too.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Funny you should say systemd is not easy to understand. I can't
>>>>>>>>>>> imagine a simpler system. One file type for configuration with the
>>>>>>>>>>> simplest syntax possible, and just a few keywords to know about.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A simple config file syntax doesn’t make a system easy to understand.
>>>>>>>>>> There are thousands of lines of man pages containing over 160 options,
>>>>>>>>>> with an implementation exceeding half a million lines of C. It’s not
>>>>>>>>>> badly documented, but it’s a complex system and it’s silly to pretend
>>>>>>>>>> there’s no learning curve here.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Where is the user interface? With initd, it's that pile of scripts,
>>>>>>>>> each one a custom creation and a forest of symbolic links.
>>>>>>>>> Where is the learning curve compared to systemd's simple config file
>>>>>>>>> syntax?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have no idea why you’re focussing on the config file syntax, since
>>>>>>>> there’s a lot more to systemd (or any nontrivial init) than that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's the only visible user interface.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> systemd.syntax is tiny indeed, but if that’s all someone reads they will
>>>>>> still have no idea how to write or interpret a unit file.
>>>>>
>>>>> "No idea"? Hardly.
>>>>> Have you looked?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I have written a number.
>>>>
>>>>> They seem pretty straight forward to me.
>>>>
>>>> Go on then, explain how to write a unit file that actually does
>>>> something useful, using only information in `man systemd.syntax`.
>>>
>>> Here is the existing emacs.service file on my system:
>>>
>>> [Unit]
>>> Description=Emacs: the extensible, self-documenting text editor
>>>
>>> [Service]
>>> Type=forking
>>> ExecStart=/usr/bin/emacs --daemon
>>> ExecStop=/usr/bin/emacsclient --eval "(kill-emacs)"
>>> Restart=always
>>>
>>> [Install]
>>> WantedBy=default.target
>>>
>>> If I wanted to add arguments to emacs I'd change the ExecStart line.
>>>
>>> No reference to the man page is required.
>>
>> Cargo-culting one example is a bit different to understanding the
>> system. If you wanted to do anything even slightly different you’d need
>> to read the manual. Which isn’t unreasonable, but it’s a long way beyond
>> knowing the config file surface syntax.
>
> I was asked for an example, I gave it.
> Not enough for you?
> I'm wasting my time.
>
> Cargo cult:
>
> A cargo cult is an indigenist millenarian belief system in which
> adherents perform rituals which they believe will cause a more
> technologically advanced society to deliver goods.
>
> WTF?
>
Well yes, I was a bit puzzled by the use of that term. I assumed it was
sort of like 'using something not invented or understood here, but
delivered by someone who knew what they were doing'
Which is stretching the definition of cargo cult past breaking part.

'cribbing' would have been simpler to say.

It's a tradition that goes back to Bletchley Park, cryptography and the
dawn of the computer age.

We used to call it hacking - copy everything and then hack it about
till it does what you want. A very fast way to develop similar code
since you only need to really understand the bit that needs changing.

--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

<87v93mgenu.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk>

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!news.niel.me!nntp.terraraq.uk!.POSTED.nntp.terraraq.uk!not-for-mail
From: invalid@invalid.invalid (Richard Kettlewell)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: What's the best linux distro?
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 10:13:41 +0100
Organization: terraraq NNTP server
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 by: Richard Kettlewell - Tue, 31 Aug 2021 09:13 UTC

Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:

> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
>
>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>>>>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>>>>>>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>> Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I never said systemd is easy to understand. It would be a lie. But
>>>>>>>>>>>> saying SysV is easy would be a lie too.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Funny you should say systemd is not easy to understand. I can't
>>>>>>>>>>> imagine a simpler system. One file type for configuration with the
>>>>>>>>>>> simplest syntax possible, and just a few keywords to know about.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A simple config file syntax doesn’t make a system easy to understand.
>>>>>>>>>> There are thousands of lines of man pages containing over 160 options,
>>>>>>>>>> with an implementation exceeding half a million lines of C. It’s not
>>>>>>>>>> badly documented, but it’s a complex system and it’s silly to pretend
>>>>>>>>>> there’s no learning curve here.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Where is the user interface? With initd, it's that pile of scripts,
>>>>>>>>> each one a custom creation and a forest of symbolic links.
>>>>>>>>> Where is the learning curve compared to systemd's simple config file
>>>>>>>>> syntax?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have no idea why you’re focussing on the config file syntax, since
>>>>>>>> there’s a lot more to systemd (or any nontrivial init) than that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's the only visible user interface.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> systemd.syntax is tiny indeed, but if that’s all someone reads they will
>>>>>> still have no idea how to write or interpret a unit file.
>>>>>
>>>>> "No idea"? Hardly.
>>>>> Have you looked?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I have written a number.
>>>>
>>>>> They seem pretty straight forward to me.
>>>>
>>>> Go on then, explain how to write a unit file that actually does
>>>> something useful, using only information in `man systemd.syntax`.
>>>
>>> Here is the existing emacs.service file on my system:
>>>
>>> [Unit]
>>> Description=Emacs: the extensible, self-documenting text editor
>>>
>>> [Service]
>>> Type=forking
>>> ExecStart=/usr/bin/emacs --daemon
>>> ExecStop=/usr/bin/emacsclient --eval "(kill-emacs)"
>>> Restart=always
>>>
>>> [Install]
>>> WantedBy=default.target
>>>
>>> If I wanted to add arguments to emacs I'd change the ExecStart line.
>>>
>>> No reference to the man page is required.
>>
>> Cargo-culting one example is a bit different to understanding the
>> system. If you wanted to do anything even slightly different you’d need
>> to read the manual. Which isn’t unreasonable, but it’s a long way beyond
>> knowing the config file surface syntax.
>
> I was asked for an example, I gave it.
> Not enough for you?

You were asked for an example that used only knowledge of the syntax,
which is what you’ve spent the last few posts claiming is all you
need. Turns out what you really meant by “knowledge of the syntax” was
“an example to blindly copy, with no particular understanding of the
wider system”. Perhaps the conversation would have gone faster if you’d
said what you meant at the start.

> I'm wasting my time.
>
> Cargo cult:
>
> A cargo cult is an indigenist millenarian belief system in which
> adherents perform rituals which they believe will cause a more
> technologically advanced society to deliver goods.
>
> WTF?

The practice of copying things without understanding why they do what
they do. In my experience it’s a commonly used term among techies, at
least among the ones who do make the effort to fully understand the
technology they use, when faced with the output of people who guess and
bluff.

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

Re: What's the best linux distro?

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: What's the best linux distro?
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 10:38:00 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Tue, 31 Aug 2021 09:38 UTC

On 31/08/2021 10:13, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
> In my experience it’s a commonly used term among techies, at
> least among the ones who do make the effort to fully understand the
> technology they use, when faced with the output of people who guess and
> bluff.

Never heard it used that way, ever.

--
For in reason, all government without the consent of the governed is the
very definition of slavery.

Jonathan Swift

Re: What's the best linux distro?

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From: *@eli.users.panix.com (Eli the Bearded)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: What's the best linux distro?
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 20:39:39 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Some absurd concept
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 by: Eli the Bearded - Tue, 31 Aug 2021 20:39 UTC

In comp.os.linux.misc, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 31/08/2021 10:13, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
> > In my experience it’s a commonly used term among techies, at
> > least among the ones who do make the effort to fully understand the
> > technology they use, when faced with the output of people who guess and
> > bluff.

Yes. Sometimes used in reference to people who lean on Stack Overflow
too much.

> Never heard it used that way, ever.

Congratuations, now you have.

Some further reading:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_programming

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_science

Elijah
------
the "see also" sections of those two pages are also good reading

Re: What's the best linux distro?

<JhxXI.9270$2Q_3.8434@fx35.iad>

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From: branimir.maksimovic@gmail.com (Branimir Maksimovic)
Subject: Re: What's the best linux distro?
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 by: Branimir Maksimovic - Tue, 31 Aug 2021 21:36 UTC

On 2021-08-25, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 25/08/2021 06.41, SixOverFive wrote:
>> On 08/24/2021 08:53 AM, F Russell wrote:
>>> On Tue, 24 Aug 2021 08:10:49 +0200, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Your posting is utter bullshit.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Where is your proof or example to the contrary?  Without...
>>
>>
>> PEOPLE !!! What's going on here ???
>>
>> There IS NO "best" Linux distro. What's "best" depends
>> ENTIRELY on what YOU plan to DO with it.
>
> Oh, you must be new in these parts :-D
>
> F Russell is one of the local trolls, a fanatic. Linux has to be his way
he is either unemployed or he is payed for doing this.

--
bmaxa now listens rock.mp3

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