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computers / comp.os.linux.misc / Re: What's the best linux distro?

SubjectAuthor
* Re: What's the best linux distro?F Russell
+* Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E.R.
|`* Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
| `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Jimmy Johnson
|  +* Re: What's the best linux distro?Robert Riches
|  |`- Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
|  `* Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
|   `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Rich
|    +* Re: What's the best linux distro?Jasen Betts
|    |`- Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
|    `- Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
+* Re: What's the best linux distro?F Russell
|`* Re: What's the best linux distro?SixOverFive
| +- Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
| +* Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E.R.
| |+* Re: What's the best linux distro?Richard Kettlewell
| ||`* Re: X-post and follow-Up (Was: What's the best linux distro?)Carlos E.R.
| || `* Re: X-post and follow-UpBud Frede
| ||  `- Re: X-post and follow-UpCarlos E. R.
| |+* Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
| ||`* Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E.R.
| || +* Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| || |+- Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E.R.
| || |+* Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
| || ||+- Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| || ||+* Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E.R.
| || |||+* Re: What's the best linux distro?Stéphane CARPENTIER
| || ||||+- Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E. R.
| || ||||`* Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
| || |||| +- Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E. R.
| || |||| `- Re: What's the best linux distro?Marc Haber
| || |||`* Re: What's the best linux distro?Bud Frede
| || ||| `- Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E. R.
| || ||`* Re: What's the best linux distro?Stéphane CARPENTIER
| || || `- Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
| || |+* Re: What's the best linux distro?Bobbie Sellers
| || ||+* Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| || |||`* Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E. R.
| || ||| `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Stéphane CARPENTIER
| || |||  `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| || |||   +* Re: What's the best linux distro?Stéphane CARPENTIER
| || |||   |`- Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| || |||   `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E. R.
| || |||    `- Re: What's the best linux distro?Aragorn
| || ||`* Re: What's the best linux distro?Bud Frede
| || || `- Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E. R.
| || |`* Re: What's the best linux distro?Bud Frede
| || | +- Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E. R.
| || | `- Re: What's the best linux distro?Aragorn
| || +* Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
| || |+* Re: What's the best linux distro?Robert Latest
| || ||+- Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
| || ||`* Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E.R.
| || || `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Robert Latest
| || ||  `- Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E.R.
| || |+- Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| || |+* Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| || ||`* Re: What's the best linux distro?Stéphane CARPENTIER
| || || `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Marc Haber
| || ||  `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Stéphane CARPENTIER
| || ||   `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| || ||    `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Richard Kettlewell
| || ||     `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| || ||      `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Richard Kettlewell
| || ||       `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| || ||        +* Re: What's the best linux distro?Richard Kettlewell
| || ||        |`* Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| || ||        | `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Richard Kettlewell
| || ||        |  +- Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E. R.
| || ||        |  `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| || ||        |   `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Richard Kettlewell
| || ||        |    `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| || ||        |     +- Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
| || ||        |     `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Richard Kettlewell
| || ||        |      `* Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
| || ||        |       `- Re: What's the best linux distro?Eli the Bearded
| || ||        `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Stéphane CARPENTIER
| || ||         +- Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E. R.
| || ||         `- Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| || |`* Re: What's the best linux distro?Richard Kettlewell
| || | `* Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
| || |  `- Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E.R.
| || `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Richard Kettlewell
| ||  +* Re: What's the best linux distro?jjb
| ||  |`* Re: What's the best linux distro?Bobbie Sellers
| ||  | +- Re: What's the best linux distro?Aragorn
| ||  | `- Re: What's the best linux distro?Bud Frede
| ||  +* Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| ||  |`- Re: What's the best linux distro?Richard Kettlewell
| ||  `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E.R.
| ||   `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Bud Frede
| ||    `* Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E. R.
| ||     `- Re: What's the best linux distro?The Natural Philosopher
| |+* Re: What's the best linux distro?Jimmy Johnson
| ||+* Re: What's the best linux distro?Robert Latest
| |||`- Re: What's the best linux distro?Carlos E.R.
| ||+* Re: What's the best linux distro?Aragorn
| |||+* Re: What's the best linux distro?Dan Espen
| ||||`* Re: What's the best linux distro?Aragorn
| |||| `- Re: What's the best linux distro?J.O. Aho
| |||`* Re: What's the best linux distro?Bud Frede
| ||`- Re: What's the best linux distro?Stéphane CARPENTIER
| |`- Re: What's the best linux distro?Branimir Maksimovic
| `- Re: What's the best linux distro?Stéphane CARPENTIER
`- Re: What's the best linux distro?SixOverFive

Pages:12345
Re: What's the best linux distro?

<sg5v8v$an9$1@dont-email.me>

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From: bliss@mouse-potato.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: What's the best linux distro?
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 10:39:43 -0700
Organization: dis-organization
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 by: Bobbie Sellers - Wed, 25 Aug 2021 17:39 UTC

On 8/25/21 09:17, jjb wrote:
> On 25-08-2021 17:47, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>> systemd as it is today has a lot of features they’re missing, certainly,
>> but applying the same effort to them that was in fact put into systemd
>> doesn’t seem like a totally unrealistic option, had anyone chosen to
>> pursue it.
>>
>
> But they didn't...
>

Because they see the featuritis of systemd as a complication
to be avoided rather than sought. One program one function
is the old GNU design criteria.

bliss - boots & runs a Pretty Cool Linux Operating System aka pclinuxos.

No to systemd.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: What's the best linux distro?
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 18:44:56 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Wed, 25 Aug 2021 17:44 UTC

On 25/08/2021 16:38, Robert Latest wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> For example, before systemd my laptops had hard wired NFS mounts to my
>> server in /etc/fstab.
>>
>> The nfs layer came up after networking by wifi, the mounts were dine
>> later and all was well.
>>
>> To years later systemd had broken all the scripts
>
> I have a few NFS mounts to my local NAS on my systemd-running laptop without
> problems. Just a couple of lines in /etc/fstab, no scripts required.

now yes. two years ago, forget it

>
>> Having scripts execute in an orderly fashion according to alphanumerical
>> order was perfectly OK
>
> I find writing custom services is also a lot easier in systemd. Until once when
> I tried to write a timer unit. That was crap.
>

--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

Re: What's the best linux distro?

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From: robin_listas@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: What's the best linux distro?
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 20:15:49 +0200
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 by: Carlos E.R. - Wed, 25 Aug 2021 18:15 UTC

On 25/08/2021 17.38, Robert Latest wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> For example, before systemd my laptops had hard wired NFS mounts to my
>> server in /etc/fstab.
>>
>> The nfs layer came up after networking by wifi, the mounts were dine
>> later and all was well.
>>
>> To years later systemd had broken all the scripts
>
> I have a few NFS mounts to my local NAS on my systemd-running laptop without
> problems. Just a couple of lines in /etc/fstab, no scripts required.

Same here.

>> Having scripts execute in an orderly fashion according to alphanumerical
>> order was perfectly OK
>
> I find writing custom services is also a lot easier in systemd. Until once when
> I tried to write a timer unit. That was crap.

You can use cron instead, you have both. At least I do.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

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From: robin_listas@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: What's the best linux distro?
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 20:13:38 +0200
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 by: Carlos E.R. - Wed, 25 Aug 2021 18:13 UTC

On 25/08/2021 15.31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 25/08/2021 13:53, Dan Espen wrote:
>> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> On 25/08/2021 14.10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 25/08/2021 10:56, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>> Systemd is evil.
>>>> Well on that I do agree.
>>>> Goes completely against the principles of simplicity, transparency,
>>>> and not doing stuff that was working perfectly well already
>>>
>>> Well, the later is arguable. Many were not happy, and initd had no
>>> maintenance or hopes of improvements, so they were looking for a
>>> replacement. It could have been systemd or something else, but there
>>> was nothing else suitable. So many distributions changed.
>>>
>>> To me, it works very well, I have no complains.
>>
>> Systemd is unarguably faster.
>
> who needs to boot a server faster? when you only take it doiwn every few
> months and its down for at least a few hours while you mess aroujnd with
> it.

Me. I want booting my machines faster. Even the servers.

>
>> The user interface is way simpler than initd.
>
> Rubbish

In your opinion.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

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From: robin_listas@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: What's the best linux distro?
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 20:19:55 +0200
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 by: Carlos E.R. - Wed, 25 Aug 2021 18:19 UTC

On 25/08/2021 17.47, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 25/08/2021 10:56, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>> Systemd is evil.
>>>
>>> Well on that I do agree.
>>>
>>> Goes completely against the principles of simplicity, transparency,
>>> and not doing stuff that was working perfectly well already
>>
>> Well, the later is arguable. Many were not happy, and initd had no
>> maintenance or hopes of improvements, so they were looking for a
>> replacement. It could have been systemd or something else, but there
>> was nothing else suitable. So many distributions changed.
>
> “Nothing else suitable” isn’t true at all. Disregarding the rather large
> set of toy/experimental inits, Upstart was already deployed in
> production Linux systems. Launchd would have needed porting for use on
> Linux but was (and still is) happily managing large numbers of real
> computers.

Well, openSUSE was not about to use Ubuntu method :-p

> systemd as it is today has a lot of features they’re missing, certainly,
> but applying the same effort to them that was in fact put into systemd
> doesn’t seem like a totally unrealistic option, had anyone chosen to
> pursue it.
>

That's the point, no one chose to pursue it.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

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From: thorongil@telenet.be (Aragorn)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: What's the best linux distro?
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 22:14:25 +0200
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 by: Aragorn - Wed, 25 Aug 2021 20:14 UTC

On 25.08.2021 at 10:39, Bobbie Sellers scribbled:

> On 8/25/21 09:17, jjb wrote:
>
> > On 25-08-2021 17:47, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
> >
> >> systemd as it is today has a lot of features they’re missing,
> >> certainly, but applying the same effort to them that was in fact
> >> put into systemd doesn’t seem like a totally unrealistic option,
> >> had anyone chosen to pursue it.
> >
> > But they didn't...
>
> Because they see the featuritis of systemd as a complication
> to be avoided rather than sought.

Among other things that have already been addressed and that I shan't
get into anymore, the kernel was offering many advanced possibilities to
userspace that userspace wasn't making use of -- cgroups. And to the
best of my knowledge, even today, only one other init system beside
systemd offers support for that, i.e. Gentoo's openrc.

I won't contradict that there have been some ego issues involved --
e.g. Lennart asking the GNOME developers to make systemd's logind a
hard dependency of GDM -- but systemd really IS progress. It makes for
a consistent and transparent yet modular system daemon that replaces a
poorly maintained and archaic init system that blindly started services
with virtually no control over restarting them or managing them once
they were running, leaving disparate ways of managing them.

> One program one function is the old GNU design criteria.

Actually, that goes back to UNIX in general, and you might be sad to
hear that the GNU find utility sins badly against that principle, not
to mention GNU emacs.

> bliss - boots & runs a Pretty Cool Linux Operating System aka
> pclinuxos.
>
> No to systemd.

I've been running Manjaro -- which is also cool, and very clean under
the hood -- since late April 2019. Manjaro is based upon Arch and uses
systemd. The three main differences with Arch proper are...

1. It has a graphical installer.

2. It has many graphical utilities for installiong software and
configuring the system, including a Manjaro-specific package
manager that can be used as an alternative to pacman while still
maintaining full compatibility with it, and that can be used
graphically or from the command line.

3. It's a curated rolling release, so instead of there being updates
every day, updates are tested, bundled together and pushed out on
average twice a month, barring urgent updates to certain packages
for stability or security reasons.

My computer boots up in 10 seconds from pressing Enter at the GRUB menu
to the SDDM login screen, and from a successful login to a fully
loaded Plasma desktop takes about 2 seconds longer.

Given that kernels are updated with new patches without forcing one to
adopt a higher kernel version, it is necessary to reboot the machine at
least twice a month, or whenever a major update is rolled out. Updates
are always announced on dedicated threads at the forum, together with a
list of possible gotchas and how to deal with them.

(But of course, the n00bs won't look at those announcements. They're
even too lazy to do a forum search on whatever issue they may be
encountering with an update, and then we as moderators have to merge
their threads and point them at the announcement thread for a relief
from their oh-so-tragic burdens. <rolling eyes>)

--
With respect,
= Aragorn

Re: What's the best linux distro?

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From: Jimmy@disposable.invalid (Jimmy Johnson)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: What's the best linux distro?
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 20:47:23 -0700
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 by: Jimmy Johnson - Thu, 26 Aug 2021 03:47 UTC

On 08/24/2021 06:19 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> I dont give a rats ass about whether its FOSS or not. I care that it
> works, it's as secure as the people who do pick over the source code can
> make it, and well supported, up to and including porting third party
> apps to it.
>
> I got bored with the niceties of the moralities of software development
> sometime in the 1990s

> Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

I don't like you. There is nothing nice or good about Corporations or
the rich owning Open Source or murder, you're nothing less than a $atan
loving fool with no place to run and no place to hide, so don't be
surprised when your day comes. And saying you don't believe won't help,
you've been warned. LOL
--
James, Son of John

Re: What's the best linux distro?

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From: Jimmy@disposable.invalid (Jimmy Johnson)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: What's the best linux distro?
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 21:02:56 -0700
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 by: Jimmy Johnson - Thu, 26 Aug 2021 04:02 UTC

On 08/25/2021 02:56 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> F Russell is one of the local trolls, a fanatic. Linux has to be his way
> or it is evil. Systemd is evil. He likes a linux with basically no
> services, no init system, tailored solely for him. What the
> distributions do, a system that works as is for many people is evil.
> Linux for the masses is evil, it has to be for hackers only and must be
> difficult to use.

Besides slowing a system down, spying and selling user info, what did
systemd bring to the table? Systemd was a lie from the very beginning
when they said over and over it was faster. Our $ystem is full of lie$.
--
James, Son of John

Re: What's the best linux distro?

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From: spamtrap42@jacob21819.net (Robert Riches)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: What's the best linux distro?
Date: 26 Aug 2021 04:05:12 GMT
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 by: Robert Riches - Thu, 26 Aug 2021 04:05 UTC

On 2021-08-26, Jimmy Johnson <Jimmy@disposable.invalid> wrote:
> On 08/24/2021 06:19 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> I dont give a rats ass about whether its FOSS or not. I care that it
>> works, it's as secure as the people who do pick over the source code can
>> make it, and well supported, up to and including porting third party
>> apps to it.
>>
>> I got bored with the niceties of the moralities of software development
>> sometime in the 1990s
>
>> Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.
>
> I don't like you. There is nothing nice or good about Corporations or
> the rich owning Open Source or murder, you're nothing less than a $atan
> loving fool with no place to run and no place to hide, so don't be
> surprised when your day comes. And saying you don't believe won't help,
> you've been warned. LOL

Jimmy Johnson, your post sounds like a threat of violence or
other harm against TNP. I hope he prints a copy of your post to
show to law enforcement if that becomes necessary.

--
Robert Riches
spamtrap42@jacob21819.net
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

Re: What's the best linux distro?

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 by: Robert Latest - Thu, 26 Aug 2021 05:19 UTC

Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 25/08/2021 17.38, Robert Latest wrote:
>> I find writing custom services is also a lot easier in systemd. Until once
>> when I tried to write a timer unit. That was crap.
>
> You can use cron instead, you have both. At least I do.

Of course I ended up using cron for the timed thing. But for processes I want
to run permanently in the background, and that I want restarted upon a crash,
with proper logging, without having to bother how to properly demonize them,
systemd beats init.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

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 by: Robert Latest - Thu, 26 Aug 2021 05:35 UTC

Jimmy Johnson wrote:
> Besides slowing a system down, spying and selling user info, what did
> systemd bring to the table?

Please elaborate on the "spying" bit. Never heard of that.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: What's the best linux distro?
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 by: Richard Kettlewell - Thu, 26 Aug 2021 08:09 UTC

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
> Having scripts execute in an orderly fashion according to
> alphanumerical order was perfectly OK
>
> You looked at what systems your layer depended on, amd made sure you
> were later in the list.

If you’re rolling your own, that’s fine, although doing it by hand
rather than getting a computer to work it out for you seems rather
strange.

If you’re building a distribution, with a wide range of possible end
user configurations, it’s not sustainable; you need something that will
work it out dynamically, based on the local configuration. IIRC Debian
had long standing bugs in this area until adopting systemd.

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

Re: What's the best linux distro?

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: What's the best linux distro?
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2021 09:46:40 +0100
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Thu, 26 Aug 2021 08:46 UTC

On 26/08/2021 04:47, Jimmy Johnson wrote:
> On 08/24/2021 06:19 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> I dont give a rats ass about whether its FOSS or not. I care that it
>> works, it's as secure as the people who do pick over the source code can
>> make it, and  well supported,  up to and including porting third party
>> apps to it.
>>
>> I got bored with the niceties of the moralities of software development
>> sometime in the 1990s
>
>> Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.
>
> I don't like you. There is nothing nice or good about Corporations or
> the rich owning Open Source or murder, you're nothing less than a $atan
> loving fool with no place to run and no place to hide, so don't be
> surprised when your day comes. And saying you don't believe won't help,
> you've been warned. LOL

Well I must say that is very antisocial of you.
Did you get lost in someone else's Moral Maze?

--
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: What's the best linux distro?
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2021 09:48:36 +0100
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Thu, 26 Aug 2021 08:48 UTC

On 26/08/2021 05:05, Robert Riches wrote:
> On 2021-08-26, Jimmy Johnson <Jimmy@disposable.invalid> wrote:
>> On 08/24/2021 06:19 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> I dont give a rats ass about whether its FOSS or not. I care that it
>>> works, it's as secure as the people who do pick over the source code can
>>> make it, and well supported, up to and including porting third party
>>> apps to it.
>>>
>>> I got bored with the niceties of the moralities of software development
>>> sometime in the 1990s
>>
>>> Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.
>>
>> I don't like you. There is nothing nice or good about Corporations or
>> the rich owning Open Source or murder, you're nothing less than a $atan
>> loving fool with no place to run and no place to hide, so don't be
>> surprised when your day comes. And saying you don't believe won't help,
>> you've been warned. LOL
>
> Jimmy Johnson, your post sounds like a threat of violence or
> other harm against TNP. I hope he prints a copy of your post to
> show to law enforcement if that becomes necessary.
>
Don't be silly. This is Usenet. Hate speech is all part of the fun, and
probably de rigeur.

Golly don't you remember the flame wars, way back when?
And the final solution - the Kill File.

--
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: What's the best linux distro?
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2021 09:49:32 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Thu, 26 Aug 2021 08:49 UTC

On 26/08/2021 09:09, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
>> Having scripts execute in an orderly fashion according to
>> alphanumerical order was perfectly OK
>>
>> You looked at what systems your layer depended on, amd made sure you
>> were later in the list.
>
> If you’re rolling your own, that’s fine, although doing it by hand
> rather than getting a computer to work it out for you seems rather
> strange.
>
> If you’re building a distribution, with a wide range of possible end
> user configurations, it’s not sustainable; you need something that will
> work it out dynamically, based on the local configuration. IIRC Debian
> had long standing bugs in this area until adopting systemd.
>
And not a few due to adopting systemd...

--
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

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From: robin_listas@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: What's the best linux distro?
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 by: Carlos E.R. - Thu, 26 Aug 2021 09:28 UTC

On 26/08/2021 07.35, Robert Latest wrote:
> Jimmy Johnson wrote:
>> Besides slowing a system down, spying and selling user info, what did
>> systemd bring to the table?
>
> Please elaborate on the "spying" bit. Never heard of that.

Me neither. Prove it. The source code is available to any. It is just FUD.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

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From: robin_listas@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: What's the best linux distro?
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 by: Carlos E.R. - Thu, 26 Aug 2021 09:31 UTC

On 26/08/2021 10.49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 26/08/2021 09:09, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>> Having scripts execute in an orderly fashion according to
>>> alphanumerical order was perfectly OK
>>>
>>> You looked at what systems your layer depended on, amd made sure you
>>> were later in the list.
>>
>> If you’re rolling your own, that’s fine, although doing it by hand
>> rather than getting a computer to work it out for you seems rather
>> strange.
>>
>> If you’re building a distribution, with a wide range of possible end
>> user configurations, it’s not sustainable; you need something that will
>> work it out dynamically, based on the local configuration. IIRC Debian
>> had long standing bugs in this area until adopting systemd.
>>
> And not a few due to adopting systemd...

Which are being worked on or at least have hopes, not as the previous
system.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Re: X-post and follow-Up (Was: What's the best linux distro?)

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 by: Carlos E.R. - Thu, 26 Aug 2021 09:33 UTC

On 26/08/2021 10.31, J.O. Aho wrote:
> On 26/08/2021 06.13, RonB wrote:
>> On 2021-08-26, jrg <jeff.g.group@att.net> wrote:
>>> On 8/25/21 4:10 AM, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>>>> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
>>>>> He now and then posts something like that here, and sets the follow up
>>>>> to the advocacy group, to have a heated mad discussion there, I
>>>>> suppose.
>>>>
>>>> And you indulge him.
>>>>
>>> cross post deleted
>>>
>>> +1
>>
>> My slrn scorefile deletes all crossposts automatically. I find that
>> cleans
>> up a newsgroup faster than anything else.
>>
>
> Don't know which groups you subscribe for, but for me, most shit is
> multi posts and not cross posted, not sure it's possible with G2-web
> interface.

That way you have half the posts of the thread in one group and half in
the other, so that some people will not see yours.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

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From: robin_listas@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: What's the best linux distro?
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 by: Carlos E.R. - Thu, 26 Aug 2021 09:40 UTC

On 26/08/2021 07.19, Robert Latest wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 25/08/2021 17.38, Robert Latest wrote:
>>> I find writing custom services is also a lot easier in systemd. Until once
>>> when I tried to write a timer unit. That was crap.
>>
>> You can use cron instead, you have both. At least I do.
>
> Of course I ended up using cron for the timed thing. But for processes I want
> to run permanently in the background, and that I want restarted upon a crash,
> with proper logging, without having to bother how to properly demonize them,
> systemd beats init.

I recently migrated a cron job to a systemd timer (for leafnode). I
didn't know how to do that, but fortunately the packager had already
done that, just that the timer was not enabled.

Then I wanted to change its timing, and I tried to do that, which
failed. So I asked in the openSUSE mail list, got an exact answer within
a day, and the issue was solved.

As I mentioned, the original file is intact, but my installation
contains a modification that will survive updates. It is a nice method
for distributions, easy to maintain.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

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 by: Rich - Thu, 26 Aug 2021 12:11 UTC

In comp.os.linux.misc The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 26/08/2021 04:47, Jimmy Johnson wrote:
>> On 08/24/2021 06:19 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> I dont give a rats ass about whether its FOSS or not. I care that it
>>> works, it's as secure as the people who do pick over the source code can
>>> make it, and  well supported,  up to and including porting third party
>>> apps to it.
>>>
>>> I got bored with the niceties of the moralities of software development
>>> sometime in the 1990s
>>
>>> Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.
>>
>> I don't like you. There is nothing nice or good about Corporations or
>> the rich owning Open Source or murder, you're nothing less than a $atan
>> loving fool with no place to run and no place to hide, so don't be
>> surprised when your day comes. And saying you don't believe won't help,
>> you've been warned. LOL
>
> Well I must say that is very antisocial of you.
> Did you get lost in someone else's Moral Maze?

JJ's response would be the "hmm, you don't think like me, therefore you
must be _____" (pick your choice of "evil incarnate" for the blank).

Far too many recently have fallen into a trap of forgetting (or
possibly never understanding in the first place) that different people
can hold different opinions and it is not the end of the world. I.e.,
some have forgotten to "agree to disagree".

Re: What's the best linux distro?

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Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2021 13:21:48 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Jasen Betts - Thu, 26 Aug 2021 13:21 UTC

On 2021-08-26, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
> In comp.os.linux.misc The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 26/08/2021 04:47, Jimmy Johnson wrote:
>>> On 08/24/2021 06:19 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> I dont give a rats ass about whether its FOSS or not. I care that it
>>>> works, it's as secure as the people who do pick over the source code can
>>>> make it, and  well supported,  up to and including porting third party
>>>> apps to it.
>>>>
>>>> I got bored with the niceties of the moralities of software development
>>>> sometime in the 1990s
>>>
>>>> Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.
>>>
>>> I don't like you. There is nothing nice or good about Corporations or
>>> the rich owning Open Source or murder, you're nothing less than a $atan
>>> loving fool with no place to run and no place to hide, so don't be
>>> surprised when your day comes. And saying you don't believe won't help,
>>> you've been warned. LOL
>>
>> Well I must say that is very antisocial of you.
>> Did you get lost in someone else's Moral Maze?
>
> JJ's response would be the "hmm, you don't think like me, therefore you
> must be _____" (pick your choice of "evil incarnate" for the blank).

It was a response in kind to the original post, and entirely justified.

Correct me ig I'm wrong, bufrom from your response it seems that you also
prefer superstition to science.

If you don't want your idocies mocked don't post them to usenet.

--
Jasen.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: What's the best linux distro?
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2021 16:51:16 +0100
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Thu, 26 Aug 2021 15:51 UTC

On 26/08/2021 13:11, Rich wrote:
> In comp.os.linux.misc The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 26/08/2021 04:47, Jimmy Johnson wrote:
>>> On 08/24/2021 06:19 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> I dont give a rats ass about whether its FOSS or not. I care that it
>>>> works, it's as secure as the people who do pick over the source code can
>>>> make it, and  well supported,  up to and including porting third party
>>>> apps to it.
>>>>
>>>> I got bored with the niceties of the moralities of software development
>>>> sometime in the 1990s
>>>
>>>> Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.
>>>
>>> I don't like you. There is nothing nice or good about Corporations or
>>> the rich owning Open Source or murder, you're nothing less than a $atan
>>> loving fool with no place to run and no place to hide, so don't be
>>> surprised when your day comes. And saying you don't believe won't help,
>>> you've been warned. LOL
>>
>> Well I must say that is very antisocial of you.
>> Did you get lost in someone else's Moral Maze?
>
> JJ's response would be the "hmm, you don't think like me, therefore you
> must be _____" (pick your choice of "evil incarnate" for the blank).
>
> Far too many recently have fallen into a trap of forgetting (or
> possibly never understanding in the first place) that different people
> can hold different opinions and it is not the end of the world. I.e.,
> some have forgotten to "agree to disagree".
>
Well in the end some people - due mainly to insecurity one supposes -
move from purveyors of perspectives to Holders of the One True View.

Philosophy teaches one true fact, that there are no 'true' facts. There
are only inductive propositions, whose truth content is indecidable.

The problem with socialism per se, is that it is comprised of such
people. The tenets of Marxism and so called socialism are pronounced as
truth, not as informative perspectives.

It's as bad as science, which at least has the excuse that its
propositions are demonstrably not-false....yet anyway.

--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: What's the best linux distro?
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2021 16:53:54 +0100
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Thu, 26 Aug 2021 15:53 UTC

On 26/08/2021 14:21, Jasen Betts wrote:
> On 2021-08-26, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>> In comp.os.linux.misc The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 26/08/2021 04:47, Jimmy Johnson wrote:
>>>> On 08/24/2021 06:19 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I dont give a rats ass about whether its FOSS or not. I care that it
>>>>> works, it's as secure as the people who do pick over the source code can
>>>>> make it, and  well supported,  up to and including porting third party
>>>>> apps to it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I got bored with the niceties of the moralities of software development
>>>>> sometime in the 1990s
>>>>
>>>>> Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.
>>>>
>>>> I don't like you. There is nothing nice or good about Corporations or
>>>> the rich owning Open Source or murder, you're nothing less than a $atan
>>>> loving fool with no place to run and no place to hide, so don't be
>>>> surprised when your day comes. And saying you don't believe won't help,
>>>> you've been warned. LOL
>>>
>>> Well I must say that is very antisocial of you.
>>> Did you get lost in someone else's Moral Maze?
>>
>> JJ's response would be the "hmm, you don't think like me, therefore you
>> must be _____" (pick your choice of "evil incarnate" for the blank).
>
> It was a response in kind to the original post, and entirely justified.
>
> Correct me ig I'm wrong, bufrom from your response it seems that you also
> prefer superstition to science.

No, I don't think he is Believer in Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global
Warming..

>
> If you don't want your idocies mocked don't post them to usenet.
>
Indeed.

--
To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.

Re: What's the best linux distro?

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From: thorongil@telenet.be (Aragorn)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: What's the best linux distro?
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2021 18:10:54 +0200
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 by: Aragorn - Thu, 26 Aug 2021 16:10 UTC

On 25.08.2021 at 21:02, Jimmy Johnson scribbled:

> On 08/25/2021 02:56 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
> > F Russell is one of the local trolls, a fanatic. Linux has to be
> > his way or it is evil. Systemd is evil. He likes a linux with
> > basically no services, no init system, tailored solely for him.
> > What the distributions do, a system that works as is for many
> > people is evil. Linux for the masses is evil, it has to be for
> > hackers only and must be difficult to use.
>
> Besides slowing a system down, [...

My PCLinuxOS system with SysVinit booted up from hitting Enter at the
GRUB menu to a character-mode console login prompt in about 50 seconds.

My Manjaro system with systemd boots up from hitting Enter at the GRUB
menu to the SDDM login screen in 10 seconds.

Now, I could be grossly wrong, but I am still firmly convinced that 10
seconds is less than 50 seconds.

> ...] spying and selling user info [...

Links, please? To verifiable sources, please -- not to some "I hate
systemd" website.

>...], what did systemd bring to the table?

Uniformity and consistency in configuration, a failsafe mechanism for
the starting and managing of daemons, faster boot times, isolation and
containerization of processes, consistency in the naming convention of
attached peripherals -- e.g. drives, network interfaces -- as well as
autodetection of the EFI partition, the root partition and the swap
partition without needing any entries in /etc/fstab on drives with a
GUID partition table, et al.

AND... unlike with SysVinit, the code is actively being maintained.

--
With respect,
= Aragorn =

Re: What's the best linux distro?

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From: dan1espen@gmail.com (Dan Espen)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: What's the best linux distro?
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2021 13:12:39 -0400
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 by: Dan Espen - Thu, 26 Aug 2021 17:12 UTC

Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> writes:

> On 25.08.2021 at 21:02, Jimmy Johnson scribbled:
>
>> On 08/25/2021 02:56 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>
>> > F Russell is one of the local trolls, a fanatic. Linux has to be
>> > his way or it is evil. Systemd is evil. He likes a linux with
>> > basically no services, no init system, tailored solely for him.
>> > What the distributions do, a system that works as is for many
>> > people is evil. Linux for the masses is evil, it has to be for
>> > hackers only and must be difficult to use.
>>
>> Besides slowing a system down, [...
>
> My PCLinuxOS system with SysVinit booted up from hitting Enter at the
> GRUB menu to a character-mode console login prompt in about 50 seconds.
>
> My Manjaro system with systemd boots up from hitting Enter at the GRUB
> menu to the SDDM login screen in 10 seconds.
>
> Now, I could be grossly wrong, but I am still firmly convinced that 10
> seconds is less than 50 seconds.
>
>> ...] spying and selling user info [...
>
> Links, please? To verifiable sources, please -- not to some "I hate
> systemd" website.
>
>>...], what did systemd bring to the table?
>
> Uniformity and consistency in configuration, a failsafe mechanism for
> the starting and managing of daemons, faster boot times, isolation and
> containerization of processes, consistency in the naming convention of
> attached peripherals -- e.g. drives, network interfaces -- as well as
> autodetection of the EFI partition, the root partition and the swap
> partition without needing any entries in /etc/fstab on drives with a
> GUID partition table, et al.
>
> AND... unlike with SysVinit, the code is actively being maintained.

Still have me on ignore? Good post, finally some reason on the subject.

--
Dan Espen

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