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computers / alt.internet.wireless / Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?

SubjectAuthor
* [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocaWally J
+* Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment ofThe Real Bev
|`* Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geoFrank Slootweg
| +- Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment ofcandycanearter07
| `* Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment ofThe Real Bev
|  `* Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geoFrank Slootweg
|   +* Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geoRoger
|   |+* Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment ofThe Real Bev
|   ||`- Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geoWally J
|   |`* Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geoFrank Slootweg
|   | +* Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment ofThe Real Bev
|   | |`* Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geoPatrick
|   | | +- Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geoWally J
|   | | `- Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment ofcandycanearter07
|   | `* Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geoRoger
|   |  `* Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geoFrank Slootweg
|   |   `* Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment ofThe Real Bev
|   |    `* Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geoWally J
|   |     `* Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment ofThe Real Bev
|   |      `- Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geoWally J
|   `* Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geoChar Jackson
|    +- Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment ofThe Real Bev
|    +- Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geoWally J
|    `* Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geoFrank Slootweg
|     `* Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geoChar Jackson
|      +- Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geoWally J
|      `* Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geoFrank Slootweg
|       +* Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geoChar Jackson
|       |`* Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geoFrank Slootweg
|       | +* Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geoWolf Greenblatt
|       | |`* Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment ofAndy Burns
|       | | +- Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment ofsms
|       | | `- Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geoFrank Slootweg
|       | `* Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geoChar Jackson
|       |  `* Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geoFrank Slootweg
|       |   `* Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geoChar Jackson
|       |    `* Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geoFrank Slootweg
|       |     +- Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment ofsms
|       |     `- Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geoChar Jackson
|       `- Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geoWolf Greenblatt
+- Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment ofJörg Lorenz
+- Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment ofJeff Layman
+- Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment ofAndy Burns
+* Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geoNewyana2
|`- Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geoFrank Slootweg
`* Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geoDavid Higton
 `- Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment ofcandycanearter07

Pages:12
Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?

<uenjdd.nq4.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>

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From: this@ddress.is.invalid (Frank Slootweg)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,sci.geo.satellite-nav
Subject: Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?
Date: 23 Sep 2023 18:56:24 GMT
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 by: Frank Slootweg - Sat, 23 Sep 2023 18:56 UTC

Roger <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 23 Sep 2023 13:10:09 GMT, Frank Slootweg
> <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
> >Roger <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >> On 22 Sep 2023 17:58:43 GMT, Frank Slootweg
> >> <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >> >The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> On 9/22/23 8:16 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> >> >> > The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
> >[...]
> >> >> > [Rewind/repeat:]
> >> >> >> I just found out that MY location is picked up by google maps
> >> >> >> only via wifi+location services. With wifi off and cell
> >> >> >> service+location services on it can't see me.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > In the latter case, was 'Mobile data' off or on?
> >> >>
> >> >> I can choose 'airplane mode' on/off and wifi on/off. I hunted
> >> >> around for a 'mobile data'/other choice with no success.
> >> >
> >> > Hmmm!? Strange!? On most phones the 'Mobile data' on/off toggle is on
> >> >the same panel as the 'Wifi', 'Bluetooth', 'Airplane mode', 'Location',
> >> >etc. toggles. My panel has 4 pages and I can arrange what goes on which
> >> >page, so perhaps your 'Mobile data' toggle is not on the main page.
> >> >
> >> > Can someone with a Pixel <whatever> tell Bev where to look for the
> >> >'Mobile data' on/off toggle?
> >>
> >> Pixel 6a. Settings / Network and Internet / SIMs / Mobile data
> >
> > No, that's the settings/configuration part, i.e. not for day-to-day
> >use.
> >
> > I mean a - probably swipe-down - panel which has icons for each of the
> >above functions and these icons function as on/off toggles, i.e. you tap
> >the icon to switch the function (for example WiFi) on or off.
> >
> > On most phones. there's also such an icon/toggle for Mobile data. On
> >my phone. the icon is two white arrows - one up, one down - in a blue
> >(when on) circle. If the panel is not extended, it only shows the icons.
> >If it is extended, it shows the icon with its description ('Mobile
> >data').
> >
> > Does you Pixel 6a have such a panel with on/off icons/toggles? If so,
> >how do you get to it?
>
> Not quite as what you described. Swipe down then Internet gives
> two toggles: mobile operator name and Wi-Fi. Press operator name
> and a box appears "Turn off mobile data?". The options are Turn
> off and Cancel.

Thanks! Hopefully Bev's Pixel (2?) has a similar panel/setting.

Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?

<uenf8j$u4je$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=576&group=alt.internet.wireless#576

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: bashley101@gmail.com (The Real Bev)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,sci.geo.satellite-nav
Subject: Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of
cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 12:45:21 -0700
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 by: The Real Bev - Sat, 23 Sep 2023 19:45 UTC

On 9/23/23 11:56 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Roger <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 23 Sep 2023 13:10:09 GMT, Frank Slootweg
>> <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> >Roger <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> >> On 22 Sep 2023 17:58:43 GMT, Frank Slootweg
>> >> <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> On 9/22/23 8:16 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>> >> >> > The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >[...]
>> >> >> > [Rewind/repeat:]
>> >> >> >> I just found out that MY location is picked up by google maps
>> >> >> >> only via wifi+location services. With wifi off and cell
>> >> >> >> service+location services on it can't see me.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > In the latter case, was 'Mobile data' off or on?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I can choose 'airplane mode' on/off and wifi on/off. I hunted
>> >> >> around for a 'mobile data'/other choice with no success.
>> >> >
>> >> > Hmmm!? Strange!? On most phones the 'Mobile data' on/off toggle is on
>> >> >the same panel as the 'Wifi', 'Bluetooth', 'Airplane mode', 'Location',
>> >> >etc. toggles. My panel has 4 pages and I can arrange what goes on which
>> >> >page, so perhaps your 'Mobile data' toggle is not on the main page.
>> >> >
>> >> > Can someone with a Pixel <whatever> tell Bev where to look for the
>> >> >'Mobile data' on/off toggle?
>> >>
>> >> Pixel 6a. Settings / Network and Internet / SIMs / Mobile data
>> >
>> > No, that's the settings/configuration part, i.e. not for day-to-day
>> >use.
>> >
>> > I mean a - probably swipe-down - panel which has icons for each of the
>> >above functions and these icons function as on/off toggles, i.e. you tap
>> >the icon to switch the function (for example WiFi) on or off.
>> >
>> > On most phones. there's also such an icon/toggle for Mobile data. On
>> >my phone. the icon is two white arrows - one up, one down - in a blue
>> >(when on) circle. If the panel is not extended, it only shows the icons.
>> >If it is extended, it shows the icon with its description ('Mobile
>> >data').
>> >
>> > Does you Pixel 6a have such a panel with on/off icons/toggles? If so,
>> >how do you get to it?
>>
>> Not quite as what you described. Swipe down then Internet gives
>> two toggles: mobile operator name and Wi-Fi. Press operator name
>> and a box appears "Turn off mobile data?". The options are Turn
>> off and Cancel.
>
> Thanks! Hopefully Bev's Pixel (2?) has a similar panel/setting.

Settings / Network & internet / Mobile network [only when 'on'] /
Mobile data off/on and Roaming off/on

Since I leave the 'phone' off unless *I* want to make (or am expecting)
a call or actually need to use non-wifi data, I'm leaving both settings
ON.

--
Cheers,Bev
"It is a matter of regret that many low, mean suspicions
turn out to be well-founded." -- Edgar Watson Howe

Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?

<uenpg6$10hnc$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=579&group=alt.internet.wireless#579

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From: walterjones@invalid.nospam (Wally J)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,sci.geo.satellite-nav
Subject: Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 18:40:06 -0400
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 by: Wally J - Sat, 23 Sep 2023 22:40 UTC

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote

> Settings / Network & internet / Mobile network [only when 'on'] /
> Mobile data off/on and Roaming off/on

I just noticed I didn't have a 1-tap homescreen shortcut to roaming.
So I made one and put that one-tap shortcut into my shortcuts folder.

*Tutorial: How to make a 5-levels deep 1-tap shortcut to Google Precise Location Settings*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/KGDGRm7rUO4>

> Since I leave the 'phone' off unless *I* want to make (or am expecting)
> a call or actually need to use non-wifi data, I'm leaving both settings
> ON.

The problem isn't you leaving it on - it's Google's Android turning it off.
<https://i.postimg.cc/yx1yKMTJ/roaming-shortcut.jpg>

Hence you need to have a set of shortcuts to keep Google's location honest.
<https://i.postimg.cc/x1BL0M8G/shortcut-location-accuracy04.jpg>

Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?

<dvtugihrcmt2q58lmub6860rq244e717qm@4ax.com>

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From: none@none.invalid (Char Jackson)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,sci.geo.satellite-nav
Subject: Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?
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 by: Char Jackson - Sat, 23 Sep 2023 23:52 UTC

On 23 Sep 2023 12:44:30 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

>Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
>> I would just add that a Mobile Data switch probably isn't actually
>> needed. My phone, a Samsung Galaxy S20FE, doesn't appear to have such
>> a switch, but it does have Airplane Mode, which does the same thing.
>>
>> If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable Airplane Mode,
>> which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, then manually re-enable WiFi and BT.
>
> But Airplane mode also disables calls and SMS. That's why most phones
>have a 'Mobile data' on/off toggle, in addition to all the other ones.

I think you missed the last part of what I wrote. :)

c/p
>> If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable Airplane Mode,
>> which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, **then manually re-enable WiFi and BT.**
(emphasis added)

So that's how I disable mobile data, which I admit is an extremely infrequent
thing, but on closer examination I see now that my Samsung Galaxy S20 does,
indeed, have a Mobile Data switch. I'll probably never use it since I'm used to
using the Airplane Mode method.

> Example scenario: At home, streaming video. I don't want to risk that
>a WiFi problem makes my phone switch to Mobile data, so I switch off
>Mobile data and still can get/make calls (and get/send SMS (Yeah,
>*right*!)).
>
> Does your phone have a - probably swipe-down - panel with icons which
>work as on/off toggles for things like WiFi, Sound, Bluetooth, Location,
>Airplane mode, etc.?

Yes.

> If so - no offense intended - can you drag/swipe down that panel to
>get more toggles and more pages?

Yes, and that's where I finally found a Mobile Data switch, but I'll never use
it because Airplane Mode and WiFi are more important to me, and they do the same
job as the Mobile Data switch.

> For example, my swipe-down panel initially shows 5 toggles (I can
>configure which ones). If I drag/swipe it down further, I get 2 rows of
>4 toggles each. If I swipe left the extended panel, I get 3 more pages
>of 8 toggles each.
>
> The settings part (three vertical dots) calls this panel the 'Quick
>panel', which term I assume is also used on other Samsung phones.

Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?

<uenv2l$11b28$1@dont-email.me>

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From: walterjones@invalid.nospam (Wally J)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,sci.geo.satellite-nav
Subject: Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?
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 by: Wally J - Sun, 24 Sep 2023 00:15 UTC

Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote

>> If so - no offense intended - can you drag/swipe down that panel to
>> get more toggles and more pages?
>
> Yes, and that's where I finally found a Mobile Data switch, but I'll never use
> it because Airplane Mode and WiFi are more important to me, and they do the same
> job as the Mobile Data switch.

There are so many ways to efficiently access that mobile data on/off
switch, that it will end up being different based on personal preference.

For example, you can put into your shortcuts folder on your dock a one-tap
icon to open up the mobile-data activity in your Android settings menu.

But I simply swipe down, just like Frank Slootweg says he does too.
For efficiency, my Android 13 quick-settings tiles are set to:

1. Wireless debugging (can only be added from Developer options!)
2. Airplane mode
3. Location on/off
4. Data on/off
5. Wi-Fi on/off
6. Sound on/off

Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?

<ueoc6o$173j3$1@dont-email.me>

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From: bashley101@gmail.com (The Real Bev)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,sci.geo.satellite-nav
Subject: Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of
cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?
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 by: The Real Bev - Sun, 24 Sep 2023 03:59 UTC

On 9/23/23 3:40 PM, Wally J wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote
>
>> Settings / Network & internet / Mobile network [only when 'on'] /
>> Mobile data off/on and Roaming off/on
>
> I just noticed I didn't have a 1-tap homescreen shortcut to roaming.
> So I made one and put that one-tap shortcut into my shortcuts folder.
>
> *Tutorial: How to make a 5-levels deep 1-tap shortcut to Google Precise Location Settings*
> <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/KGDGRm7rUO4>
>
>> Since I leave the 'phone' off unless *I* want to make (or am expecting)
>> a call or actually need to use non-wifi data, I'm leaving both settings
>> ON.
>
> The problem isn't you leaving it on - it's Google's Android turning it off.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/yx1yKMTJ/roaming-shortcut.jpg>
>
> Hence you need to have a set of shortcuts to keep Google's location honest.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/x1BL0M8G/shortcut-location-accuracy04.jpg>

Since I have a cheap prepaid phone/data SIM I want to use it as little
as possible. Why would I worry about google turning anything off?

Although Firefox (linux, not android) does close tabs of its own
volition now and again. So does chrome. Android seems to turn
'location' off every once in a while, but if I need to have it on I'll
notice that.

--
Cheers,Bev
"It is a matter of regret that many low, mean suspicions
turn out to be well-founded." -- Edgar Watson Howe

Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?

<ueod3d$177lm$1@dont-email.me>

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From: walterjones@invalid.nospam (Wally J)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,sci.geo.satellite-nav
Subject: Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?
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 by: Wally J - Sun, 24 Sep 2023 04:14 UTC

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote

> Since I have a cheap prepaid phone/data SIM I want to use it as little
> as possible. Why would I worry about google turning anything off?

The problem is you can set up your phone perfectly, however you wish.
As I do... <https://i.postimg.cc/28KvcG6H/spoofwifiprovider01.jpg>

And then, after using just one or two of those secretly nefariously
not-so-well-behaved apps, it's no longer set up the way you had it set up.

For example...
.... If you use _any_ Google apps, you'll find most are poorly behaved.

They turn things back on that you had expressly turned off for example.

If that's fine by you - then there shouldn't be any worries on your part.
But it's not fine by me that Google apps secretly change privacy settings.

Always in favor of less privacy... toward more data collection...
... so I turn them off ...

Which is where the easy-to-use efficient one-tap shortcuts come in handy.

Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?

<uep4t8.20k.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>

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From: this@ddress.is.invalid (Frank Slootweg)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,sci.geo.satellite-nav
Subject: Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?
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 by: Frank Slootweg - Sun, 24 Sep 2023 09:01 UTC

Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
> On 23 Sep 2023 12:44:30 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
> >Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
> >> I would just add that a Mobile Data switch probably isn't actually
> >> needed. My phone, a Samsung Galaxy S20FE, doesn't appear to have such
> >> a switch, but it does have Airplane Mode, which does the same thing.
> >>
> >> If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable
> >> Airplane Mode, which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, then
> >> manually re-enable WiFi and BT.
> >
> > But Airplane mode also disables calls and SMS. That's why most phones
> >have a 'Mobile data' on/off toggle, in addition to all the other ones.
>
> I think you missed the last part of what I wrote. :)

No, I didn't, but you missed what *I* wrote! :-)

> c/p
> >> If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable
> >> Airplane Mode, which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, **then
> >> manually re-enable WiFi and BT.**
> (emphasis added)
>
> So that's how I disable mobile data, which I admit is an extremely
> infrequent thing, but on closer examination I see now that my Samsung
> Galaxy S20 does, indeed, have a Mobile Data switch. I'll probably
> never use it since I'm used to using the Airplane Mode method.

Yes, I understand that. But *my* point is that when you do that, you
*also* switch off calls and SMS. That may not matter to *you*, but is
*my* point:

> > Example scenario: At home, streaming video. I don't want to risk that
> >a WiFi problem makes my phone switch to Mobile data, so I switch off
> >Mobile data and still can get/make calls (and get/send SMS (Yeah,
> >*right*!)).
> >
> > Does your phone have a - probably swipe-down - panel with icons which
> >work as on/off toggles for things like WiFi, Sound, Bluetooth, Location,
> >Airplane mode, etc.?
>
> Yes.

Thanks for the confirmation. Being a Samsung, I thought it likely that
it would have the Quick panel.

> > If so - no offense intended - can you drag/swipe down that panel to
> >get more toggles and more pages?
>
> Yes, and that's where I finally found a Mobile Data switch, but I'll
> never use it because Airplane Mode and WiFi are more important to me,
> and they do the same job as the Mobile Data switch.

No they don't (see above), but for you the difference (no calls/SMS)
apparently does not matter.

Anyway, the beauty of the (Samsung's) Quick panel is that you can put
the buttons on the initial/main panel which are important to you and
leave the rest on the extended panel / extra pages, or hide them
alltogether.

> > For example, my swipe-down panel initially shows 5 toggles (I can
> >configure which ones). If I drag/swipe it down further, I get 2 rows of
> >4 toggles each. If I swipe left the extended panel, I get 3 more pages
> >of 8 toggles each.
> >
> > The settings part (three vertical dots) calls this panel the 'Quick
> >panel', which term I assume is also used on other Samsung phones.

Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?

<ek20hidjjdpdm7s0ef51umv707qtv7alm2@4ax.com>

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From: none@none.invalid (Char Jackson)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,sci.geo.satellite-nav
Subject: Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?
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 by: Char Jackson - Sun, 24 Sep 2023 10:14 UTC

On 24 Sep 2023 09:01:16 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

>Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
>> On 23 Sep 2023 12:44:30 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> >Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
>> >> I would just add that a Mobile Data switch probably isn't actually
>> >> needed. My phone, a Samsung Galaxy S20FE, doesn't appear to have such
>> >> a switch, but it does have Airplane Mode, which does the same thing.
>> >>
>> >> If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable
>> >> Airplane Mode, which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, then
>> >> manually re-enable WiFi and BT.
>> >
>> > But Airplane mode also disables calls and SMS. That's why most phones
>> >have a 'Mobile data' on/off toggle, in addition to all the other ones.
>>
>> I think you missed the last part of what I wrote. :)
>
> No, I didn't, but you missed what *I* wrote! :-)
>
>> c/p
>> >> If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable
>> >> Airplane Mode, which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, **then
>> >> manually re-enable WiFi and BT.**
>> (emphasis added)
>>
>> So that's how I disable mobile data, which I admit is an extremely
>> infrequent thing, but on closer examination I see now that my Samsung
>> Galaxy S20 does, indeed, have a Mobile Data switch. I'll probably
>> never use it since I'm used to using the Airplane Mode method.
>
> Yes, I understand that. But *my* point is that when you do that, you
>*also* switch off calls and SMS. That may not matter to *you*, but is
>*my* point:

You're right, but calls and SMS are only off for a second or two, right? As
quickly as you can hit the WiFi switch, they're back on again. For me, that
hasn't been a big deal.

<snip>

Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?

<ueq3q0.cio.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>

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From: this@ddress.is.invalid (Frank Slootweg)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,sci.geo.satellite-nav
Subject: Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?
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 by: Frank Slootweg - Sun, 24 Sep 2023 17:48 UTC

Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
> On 24 Sep 2023 09:01:16 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
> >Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
> >> On 23 Sep 2023 12:44:30 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
> >> >> I would just add that a Mobile Data switch probably isn't actually
> >> >> needed. My phone, a Samsung Galaxy S20FE, doesn't appear to have such
> >> >> a switch, but it does have Airplane Mode, which does the same thing.
> >> >>
> >> >> If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable
> >> >> Airplane Mode, which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, then
> >> >> manually re-enable WiFi and BT.
> >> >
> >> > But Airplane mode also disables calls and SMS. That's why most phones
> >> >have a 'Mobile data' on/off toggle, in addition to all the other ones.
> >>
> >> I think you missed the last part of what I wrote. :)
> >
> > No, I didn't, but you missed what *I* wrote! :-)
> >
> >> c/p
> >> >> If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable
> >> >> Airplane Mode, which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, **then
> >> >> manually re-enable WiFi and BT.**
> >> (emphasis added)
> >>
> >> So that's how I disable mobile data, which I admit is an extremely
> >> infrequent thing, but on closer examination I see now that my Samsung
> >> Galaxy S20 does, indeed, have a Mobile Data switch. I'll probably
> >> never use it since I'm used to using the Airplane Mode method.
> >
> > Yes, I understand that. But *my* point is that when you do that, you
> >*also* switch off calls and SMS. That may not matter to *you*, but is
> >*my* point:
>
> You're right, but calls and SMS are only off for a second or two, right? As
> quickly as you can hit the WiFi switch, they're back on again. For me, that
> hasn't been a big deal.

Ah, I see our confusion!

What's back on is *WiFi* calling/SMS (if your provider and phone
supports that). I meant normal 'cellular' calling/SMS. Cellular
calling/SMS is off, because Airplane mode turns off *all* radios and the
only way to turn the 'cellular' radio back on, is to switch off Airplane
mode.

Does this explain our misunderstanding?

> <snip>

Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?

<ueptf9$16rnq$3@dont-email.me>

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From: no@thanks.net (candycanearter07)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,sci.geo.satellite-nav
Subject: Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of
cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?
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 by: candycanearter07 - Sun, 24 Sep 2023 18:00 UTC

On 9/23/23 12:19, Patrick wrote:
> I don't think any of us ever took a class in how to use Android.
> So we learned it the same way that you are learning it right now.
>
> Once you learn it, they change it with the next Android release!

Not everything changes, right? Hopefully?
--
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?

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From: wolf@greenblatt.net (Wolf Greenblatt)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,sci.geo.satellite-nav
Subject: Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 21:01:51 -0400
Organization: Private News Server
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 by: Wolf Greenblatt - Mon, 25 Sep 2023 01:01 UTC

On 24 Sep 2023 09:01:16 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

>>> Does your phone have a - probably swipe-down - panel with icons which
>>>work as on/off toggles for things like WiFi, Sound, Bluetooth, Location,
>>>Airplane mode, etc.?
>>
>> Yes.
>
> Thanks for the confirmation. Being a Samsung, I thought it likely that
> it would have the Quick panel.

In each version of Android they add more quick settings tiles that can only
be added via the Developer options settings page such as in Android 13
Settings --> Developer options --> Quick settings developer tiles
Show layout bounds
Profile HWUI rendering
Force RGL layout direction
Window animation scale
Winscope trace
Sensors off
Wireless debugging
Show taps
Volume Up Press & Power Double Press Bugreport

The only two that I added are the "Sensors off" and "Wireless debugging"
quick settings tiles, where I mostly use the "Wireless debugging" switch
since it's required for adb to talk to Android using the LAN's Wi-Fi AP.

Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?

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From: wolf@greenblatt.net (Wolf Greenblatt)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,sci.geo.satellite-nav
Subject: Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 21:04:44 -0400
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 by: Wolf Greenblatt - Mon, 25 Sep 2023 01:04 UTC

On 24 Sep 2023 17:48:31 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> Airplane mode turns off *all* radios and the
> only way to turn the 'cellular' radio back on, is to switch off Airplane
> mode.

Good to know.

The "Airplane mode" quick settings tile turns off all the radios.
The "Sensors off" quick settings tile turns off all the sensors.

Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?

<t562hid7142u9rvbls12d46tb1k249ii4i@4ax.com>

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From: none@none.invalid (Char Jackson)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,sci.geo.satellite-nav
Subject: Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?
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 by: Char Jackson - Mon, 25 Sep 2023 05:35 UTC

On 24 Sep 2023 17:48:31 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

>Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
>> On 24 Sep 2023 09:01:16 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> >Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
>> >> On 23 Sep 2023 12:44:30 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
>> >> >> I would just add that a Mobile Data switch probably isn't actually
>> >> >> needed. My phone, a Samsung Galaxy S20FE, doesn't appear to have such
>> >> >> a switch, but it does have Airplane Mode, which does the same thing.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable
>> >> >> Airplane Mode, which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, then
>> >> >> manually re-enable WiFi and BT.
>> >> >
>> >> > But Airplane mode also disables calls and SMS. That's why most phones
>> >> >have a 'Mobile data' on/off toggle, in addition to all the other ones.
>> >>
>> >> I think you missed the last part of what I wrote. :)
>> >
>> > No, I didn't, but you missed what *I* wrote! :-)
>> >
>> >> c/p
>> >> >> If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable
>> >> >> Airplane Mode, which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, **then
>> >> >> manually re-enable WiFi and BT.**
>> >> (emphasis added)
>> >>
>> >> So that's how I disable mobile data, which I admit is an extremely
>> >> infrequent thing, but on closer examination I see now that my Samsung
>> >> Galaxy S20 does, indeed, have a Mobile Data switch. I'll probably
>> >> never use it since I'm used to using the Airplane Mode method.
>> >
>> > Yes, I understand that. But *my* point is that when you do that, you
>> >*also* switch off calls and SMS. That may not matter to *you*, but is
>> >*my* point:
>>
>> You're right, but calls and SMS are only off for a second or two, right? As
>> quickly as you can hit the WiFi switch, they're back on again. For me, that
>> hasn't been a big deal.
>
> Ah, I see our confusion!
>
> What's back on is *WiFi* calling/SMS

Yes! :)

>(if your provider and phone supports that).

I thought that most do, but perhaps it's less than I thought.

>I meant normal 'cellular' calling/SMS.

But doesn't that use Mobile Data where you are? If you turn off Mobile Data,
isn't WiFi your only remaining option for calls/SMS? Where I am, we don't use
circuit switched cellular connections anymore. Instead, it's all packet switched
for quite a few years now, so calls, SMS, and other data are all just data. At
least, that's my understanding.

>Cellular
>calling/SMS is off, because Airplane mode turns off *all* radios and the
>only way to turn the 'cellular' radio back on, is to switch off Airplane
>mode.

Agreed.

> Does this explain our misunderstanding?

Yes, and my apologies for dragging it out. My little neck of the woods may not
be representative of the entire world.

Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?

<kncp91FufolU3@mid.individual.net>

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From: usenet@andyburns.uk (Andy Burns)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,sci.geo.satellite-nav
Subject: Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of
cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 07:56:34 +0100
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 by: Andy Burns - Mon, 25 Sep 2023 06:56 UTC

Wolf Greenblatt wrote:

> Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
>> Airplane mode turns off *all* radios and the
>> only way to turn the 'cellular' radio back on, is to switch off Airplane
>> mode.
>
> Good to know.
>
> The "Airplane mode" quick settings tile turns off all the radios.
> The "Sensors off" quick settings tile turns off all the sensors.

That's not quite the full story.

On a "stock" version of Android (such a google Pixel) the first time you
turn on airplane mode, it does indeed turn off all radios.

However, if you manually turn back on bluetooth and wifi radios, the
phone remembers this, and subsequently when you turn on airplane mode it
only turns off the cellular radio (and pops up reminder that this is the
case).

Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: scharf.steven@geemail.com (sms)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,sci.geo.satellite-nav
Subject: Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of
cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 06:02:40 -0500
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 by: sms - Mon, 25 Sep 2023 11:02 UTC

On 9/25/2023 1:56 AM, Andy Burns wrote:

<snip>

> That's not quite the full story.
>
> On a "stock" version of Android (such a google Pixel) the first time you
> turn on airplane mode, it does indeed turn off all radios.
>
> However, if you manually turn back on bluetooth and wifi radios, the
> phone remembers this, and subsequently when you turn on airplane mode it
> only turns off the cellular radio (and pops up reminder that this is the
> case).

I did not realize that all Android devices with the latest version of
the operating system didn't function like this. It's the logical way for
Airplane mode to operate.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?

<uesdgs.n3k.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>

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From: this@ddress.is.invalid (Frank Slootweg)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,sci.geo.satellite-nav
Subject: Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?
Date: 25 Sep 2023 14:46:29 GMT
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 by: Frank Slootweg - Mon, 25 Sep 2023 14:46 UTC

Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
> On 24 Sep 2023 17:48:31 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
> >Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
> >> On 24 Sep 2023 09:01:16 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
> >> >> On 23 Sep 2023 12:44:30 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
> >> >> >> I would just add that a Mobile Data switch probably isn't actually
> >> >> >> needed. My phone, a Samsung Galaxy S20FE, doesn't appear to have such
> >> >> >> a switch, but it does have Airplane Mode, which does the same thing.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable
> >> >> >> Airplane Mode, which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, then
> >> >> >> manually re-enable WiFi and BT.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > But Airplane mode also disables calls and SMS. That's why most phones
> >> >> >have a 'Mobile data' on/off toggle, in addition to all the other ones.
> >> >>
> >> >> I think you missed the last part of what I wrote. :)
> >> >
> >> > No, I didn't, but you missed what *I* wrote! :-)
> >> >
> >> >> c/p
> >> >> >> If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable
> >> >> >> Airplane Mode, which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, **then
> >> >> >> manually re-enable WiFi and BT.**
> >> >> (emphasis added)
> >> >>
> >> >> So that's how I disable mobile data, which I admit is an extremely
> >> >> infrequent thing, but on closer examination I see now that my Samsung
> >> >> Galaxy S20 does, indeed, have a Mobile Data switch. I'll probably
> >> >> never use it since I'm used to using the Airplane Mode method.
> >> >
> >> > Yes, I understand that. But *my* point is that when you do that, you
> >> >*also* switch off calls and SMS. That may not matter to *you*, but is
> >> >*my* point:
> >>
> >> You're right, but calls and SMS are only off for a second or two, right? As
> >> quickly as you can hit the WiFi switch, they're back on again. For me, that
> >> hasn't been a big deal.
> >
> > Ah, I see our confusion!
> >
> > What's back on is *WiFi* calling/SMS
>
> Yes! :)
>
> >(if your provider and phone supports that).
>
> I thought that most do, but perhaps it's less than I thought.
>
> >I meant normal 'cellular' calling/SMS.
>
> But doesn't that use Mobile Data where you are? If you turn off Mobile
> Data, isn't WiFi your only remaining option for calls/SMS? Where I am,
> we don't use circuit switched cellular connections anymore. Instead,
> it's all packet switched for quite a few years now, so calls, SMS, and
> other data are all just data. At least, that's my understanding.

Yes, it's all data, but it's not all 'Mobile data'. Quite confusing,
but that's how it is. I just had a similar discussion with sms (the
poster), about MMS using data, but not 'Mobile data'.

The easiest to explain is probably that 'Mobile data' is data used for
Internet access and gets billed (or is included in your bundle)
*seperate* from calls/SMS/MMS. Any other data is not 'Mobile data'.

Another comparison/analogy: If you have fixed broadband, every thing -
TV, telephone, Internet - is 'data', but the Internet part is seperate
from the internet parts.

In my mobile 'plan', I can see how much is used/charged for calls and
SMS on one side and for Mobile data on the other side. If Mobile data is
switched off on the phone, calls/SMS are still charged in the calls/SMS
part and nothing is charged in the Mobile data part.

In short: For 'Mobile data' just read 'Mobile Internet use'.

> >Cellular
> >calling/SMS is off, because Airplane mode turns off *all* radios and the
> >only way to turn the 'cellular' radio back on, is to switch off Airplane
> >mode.
>
> Agreed.
>
> > Does this explain our misunderstanding?
>
> Yes, and my apologies for dragging it out. My little neck of the woods may not
> be representative of the entire world.

No apology needed, none at all. It's very confusing. I just (think I)
understand *this* bit. Ain't technology great! :-)

Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?

<uesfq6.n3k.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>

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From: this@ddress.is.invalid (Frank Slootweg)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,sci.geo.satellite-nav
Subject: Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?
Date: 25 Sep 2023 15:25:39 GMT
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 by: Frank Slootweg - Mon, 25 Sep 2023 15:25 UTC

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Wolf Greenblatt wrote:
>
> > Frank Slootweg wrote:
> >
> >> Airplane mode turns off *all* radios and the
> >> only way to turn the 'cellular' radio back on, is to switch off Airplane
> >> mode.
> >
> > Good to know.
> >
> > The "Airplane mode" quick settings tile turns off all the radios.
> > The "Sensors off" quick settings tile turns off all the sensors.
>
> That's not quite the full story.
>
> On a "stock" version of Android (such a google Pixel) the first time you
> turn on airplane mode, it does indeed turn off all radios.
>
> However, if you manually turn back on bluetooth and wifi radios, the
> phone remembers this, and subsequently when you turn on airplane mode it
> only turns off the cellular radio (and pops up reminder that this is the
> case).

Interesting, but - as you say - only applicable to Pixels (and the odd
"stock" Android phone).

For the large majority, one has to assume that Airplane mode turns off
all radios, unless proven otherwise. (For example on Samsungs and my
previous Huaweis.)

That's the main problem with Android, very little is 'standard'/
the_same for different brands/models, especially in this category
(settings/toggles).

Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?

<6ik4hi9vqkrbgfgofearo6mmua03v8ku6r@4ax.com>

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From: none@none.invalid (Char Jackson)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,sci.geo.satellite-nav
Subject: Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?
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 by: Char Jackson - Tue, 26 Sep 2023 04:11 UTC

On 25 Sep 2023 14:46:29 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

>Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
>> On 24 Sep 2023 17:48:31 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> >Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
>> >> On 24 Sep 2023 09:01:16 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
>> >> >> On 23 Sep 2023 12:44:30 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
>> >> >> >> I would just add that a Mobile Data switch probably isn't actually
>> >> >> >> needed. My phone, a Samsung Galaxy S20FE, doesn't appear to have such
>> >> >> >> a switch, but it does have Airplane Mode, which does the same thing.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable
>> >> >> >> Airplane Mode, which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, then
>> >> >> >> manually re-enable WiFi and BT.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > But Airplane mode also disables calls and SMS. That's why most phones
>> >> >> >have a 'Mobile data' on/off toggle, in addition to all the other ones.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I think you missed the last part of what I wrote. :)
>> >> >
>> >> > No, I didn't, but you missed what *I* wrote! :-)
>> >> >
>> >> >> c/p
>> >> >> >> If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable
>> >> >> >> Airplane Mode, which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, **then
>> >> >> >> manually re-enable WiFi and BT.**
>> >> >> (emphasis added)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> So that's how I disable mobile data, which I admit is an extremely
>> >> >> infrequent thing, but on closer examination I see now that my Samsung
>> >> >> Galaxy S20 does, indeed, have a Mobile Data switch. I'll probably
>> >> >> never use it since I'm used to using the Airplane Mode method.
>> >> >
>> >> > Yes, I understand that. But *my* point is that when you do that, you
>> >> >*also* switch off calls and SMS. That may not matter to *you*, but is
>> >> >*my* point:
>> >>
>> >> You're right, but calls and SMS are only off for a second or two, right? As
>> >> quickly as you can hit the WiFi switch, they're back on again. For me, that
>> >> hasn't been a big deal.
>> >
>> > Ah, I see our confusion!
>> >
>> > What's back on is *WiFi* calling/SMS
>>
>> Yes! :)
>>
>> >(if your provider and phone supports that).
>>
>> I thought that most do, but perhaps it's less than I thought.
>>
>> >I meant normal 'cellular' calling/SMS.
>>
>> But doesn't that use Mobile Data where you are? If you turn off Mobile
>> Data, isn't WiFi your only remaining option for calls/SMS? Where I am,
>> we don't use circuit switched cellular connections anymore. Instead,
>> it's all packet switched for quite a few years now, so calls, SMS, and
>> other data are all just data. At least, that's my understanding.
>
> Yes, it's all data, but it's not all 'Mobile data'. Quite confusing,
>but that's how it is. I just had a similar discussion with sms (the
>poster), about MMS using data, but not 'Mobile data'.
>
> The easiest to explain is probably that 'Mobile data' is data used for
>Internet access and gets billed (or is included in your bundle)
>*seperate* from calls/SMS/MMS. Any other data is not 'Mobile data'.

I think I'm learning that different wireless carriers possibly handle things
differently. I worked at a US-based wireless telecom for about 10 years and in
that ecosystem, once we moved away from circuit-switched voice to
packet-switched voice, all data was data, as far as the handset was concerned.
If the cellular radio was off for mobile data, it was off for *all* mobile data.
Once the different kinds of data, (voice, SMS, MMS, Internet access, etc.) were
inside the network, that's when various steering and billing levers were pulled.
That sounds different from what you're describing.

> Another comparison/analogy: If you have fixed broadband, every thing -
>TV, telephone, Internet - is 'data', but the Internet part is seperate
>from the internet parts.
>
> In my mobile 'plan', I can see how much is used/charged for calls and
>SMS on one side and for Mobile data on the other side. If Mobile data is
>switched off on the phone, calls/SMS are still charged in the calls/SMS
>part and nothing is charged in the Mobile data part.

The most interesting part of what I think you're saying is that even when Mobile
Data is disabled, the cellular radio is apparently not disabled since calls/SMS
are still allowed, so in your situation disabling Mobile Data is different from
Airplane Mode. I wouldn't have expected that. Thanks for that.

> In short: For 'Mobile data' just read 'Mobile Internet use'.
>
>> >Cellular
>> >calling/SMS is off, because Airplane mode turns off *all* radios and the
>> >only way to turn the 'cellular' radio back on, is to switch off Airplane
>> >mode.
>>
>> Agreed.
>>
>> > Does this explain our misunderstanding?
>>
>> Yes, and my apologies for dragging it out. My little neck of the woods may not
>> be representative of the entire world.
>
> No apology needed, none at all. It's very confusing. I just (think I)
>understand *this* bit. Ain't technology great! :-)

Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?

<ueuot3.pd8.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>

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From: this@ddress.is.invalid (Frank Slootweg)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,sci.geo.satellite-nav
Subject: Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?
Date: 26 Sep 2023 12:13:00 GMT
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 by: Frank Slootweg - Tue, 26 Sep 2023 12:13 UTC

Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
> On 25 Sep 2023 14:46:29 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

[Lots deleted.]

> > In my mobile 'plan', I can see how much is used/charged for calls and
> >SMS on one side and for Mobile data on the other side. If Mobile data is
> >switched off on the phone, calls/SMS are still charged in the calls/SMS
> >part and nothing is charged in the Mobile data part.
>
> The most interesting part of what I think you're saying is that even
> when Mobile Data is disabled, the cellular radio is apparently not
> disabled since calls/SMS are still allowed, so in your situation
> disabling Mobile Data is different from Airplane Mode. I wouldn't have
> expected that. Thanks for that.

Thanks for wording it so succintly! That's indeed the gist of the
issue.

An interesting experiment would be for you to do the following:

Switch off 'Mobile data' (you have found where that switch is on your
phone) *and* switch off Wi-Fi. Now see if you still can make or receive
a phone call or/and can send or receive a SMS message.

My 'guess' is that you can still do that. If so, we've proven that the
'Mobile data' part (read: Internet access) is off / no longer in use,
but the *other* data for calls and SMS is still on / in use. And that is
exactly my point.

FWIW, I can't imagine it's diffferent for you and for me. AFAIK, this
is world-wide technology and not location/provider/phone/etc. dependent.

BUT, of course I could be wrong. Happened before, so it's bound to
happen again. :-)

Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?

<ueuk83$2gnet$1@dont-email.me>

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From: scharf.steven@geemail.com (sms)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,sci.geo.satellite-nav
Subject: Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of
cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?
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 by: sms - Tue, 26 Sep 2023 12:53 UTC

On 9/26/2023 7:13 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> An interesting experiment would be for you to do the following:
>
> Switch off 'Mobile data' (you have found where that switch is on your
> phone) *and* switch off Wi-Fi. Now see if you still can make or receive
> a phone call or/and can send or receive a SMS message.
>
> My 'guess' is that you can still do that. If so, we've proven that the
> 'Mobile data' part (read: Internet access) is off / no longer in use,
> but the *other* data for calls and SMS is still on / in use. And that is
> exactly my point.

Correct. But you won't be able to send or receive an MMS.

But remember in pre-smart phone days you could still send and receive
MMS with the phone using data over AMPS, GSM, and CDMA. The carriers
charged for "messaging" which included a fixed number of SMS/MMS but
IIRC they did not distinguish between SMS and MMS.

The early cameras on smart phones generated files only in the hundreds
of KB so the carriers probably saw no reason to charge seperately for
MMS, or they had no system to do so; if your plan included 300 messages
they could be SMS or MMS. Now, a single iPhone photo can now be 75MB so
if you take just 13 photos of your meal you're at nearly a GB.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?

<8uf7hidcujle5sa0o4mlhnehv75klp48kv@4ax.com>

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From: none@none.invalid (Char Jackson)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,sci.geo.satellite-nav
Subject: Re: [Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?
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 by: Char Jackson - Wed, 27 Sep 2023 05:43 UTC

On 26 Sep 2023 12:13:00 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

>Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
>> On 25 Sep 2023 14:46:29 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
>[Lots deleted.]
>
>> > In my mobile 'plan', I can see how much is used/charged for calls and
>> >SMS on one side and for Mobile data on the other side. If Mobile data is
>> >switched off on the phone, calls/SMS are still charged in the calls/SMS
>> >part and nothing is charged in the Mobile data part.
>>
>> The most interesting part of what I think you're saying is that even
>> when Mobile Data is disabled, the cellular radio is apparently not
>> disabled since calls/SMS are still allowed, so in your situation
>> disabling Mobile Data is different from Airplane Mode. I wouldn't have
>> expected that. Thanks for that.
>
> Thanks for wording it so succintly! That's indeed the gist of the
>issue.
>
> An interesting experiment would be for you to do the following:
>
> Switch off 'Mobile data' (you have found where that switch is on your
>phone) *and* switch off Wi-Fi. Now see if you still can make or receive
>a phone call or/and can send or receive a SMS message.
>
> My 'guess' is that you can still do that.

Ugh, yes. That's awful, but it's a wake-up call. I'll most definitely avoid the
Mobile Data switch, as I've been doing since forever, and continue to use
Airplane Mode instead, when I need specific radios to be off.

>If so, we've proven that the
>'Mobile data' part (read: Internet access) is off / no longer in use,
>but the *other* data for calls and SMS is still on / in use. And that is
>exactly my point.

You're spot on.

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