My friend has decided she'd like programs to install on F:, and put
their data on G:.

How wise or otherwise this is, can we _please_ leave to another thread?
(My own view is that there's little point in trying to keep non-OS
software separate from the OS, as most software sprays files all over
the place - such as in system32 - and so much in the registry. So I just
image my C: from time to time, knowing that in the event of disaster I
can restore from the image, and have both my OS and all software back
how I want it, in one go. [Keeping _data_ separate I agree with.] But as
I say, let's start another thread if we want to argue about that!)

At present, all software, if it gives any choice in the matter, defaults
to installing itself in C:\Program Files [or Program Files (x86)], and
to making a data folder that's on C: too. Some software doesn't even
ask, but most does. (It also tends to want to bury things way down - in
something like C:\Users\<name>\AppData\roaming\...; my friend, like the
majority of home users I suspect, is sole user, so doesn't _need_ all
that structure, so would prefer just G:\<softwareName>.) In most cases,
where software _does_ ask, it does let you choose where to put itself
and its data (though I came across an interesting one this week - Online
Bible, fairly ancient - that would let you type in G:\blah\blah, but
immediately changed it to just G: as soon as you tabbed away from that
field. Ignore that one).

_Is_ there any setting that can be changed so the _default_ drive isn't
C:? Either for prog. or its data? (And, ideally, get rid of the long and
tortuous burying?)

My friend's system is W10-64, but I'd be interested - if there is an
answer (other than "no" of course!) - to know for W7 (-32 if it makes
any difference) too.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Grammar is there to help, not hinder."
-- Mark Wallace, APIHNA, 2nd December 2000 (quoted by John Flynn 2000-12-6)

On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 12:43:13 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

>My friend has decided she'd like programs to install on F:, and put
>their data on G:.
>
>How wise or otherwise this is

My C: drive is a limited size SSD. So I install other software on D:
when I am given the option.

--

Dennis

On 19/09/2021 13.43, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> My friend has decided she'd like programs to install on F:, and put
> their data on G:.
>
> How wise or otherwise this is, can we _please_ leave to another thread?
> (My own view is that there's little point in trying to keep non-OS
> software separate from the OS, as most software sprays files all over
> the place - such as in system32 - and so much in the registry. So I just
> image my C: from time to time, knowing that in the event of disaster I
> can restore from the image, and have both my OS and all software back
> how I want it, in one go. [Keeping _data_ separate I agree with.] But as
> I say, let's start another thread if we want to argue about that!)
>
> At present, all software, if it gives any choice in the matter, defaults
> to installing itself in C:\Program Files [or Program Files (x86)], and
> to making a data folder that's on C: too. Some software doesn't even
> ask, but most does. (It also tends to want to bury things way down - in
> something like C:\Users\<name>\AppData\roaming\...; my friend, like the
> majority of home users I suspect, is sole user, so doesn't _need_ all
> that structure, so would prefer just G:\<softwareName>.) In most cases,
> where software _does_ ask, it does let you choose where to put itself
> and its data (though I came across an interesting one this week - Online
> Bible, fairly ancient - that would let you type in G:\blah\blah, but
> immediately changed it to just G: as soon as you tabbed away from that
> field. Ignore that one).
>
> _Is_ there any setting that can be changed so the _default_ drive isn't
> C:? Either for prog. or its data? (And, ideally, get rid of the long and
> tortuous burying?)

Do we have symlinks in Windows?

My main system being Linux, it is an obvious idea to achieve the goal.
Thus, the question would be whether Window 10 has symlinks. Then just
symlink the normal place in C: to any other disk.

Is that possible and would it work?

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 at 08:33:37, Dennis <nobody@nowhere.invalid> wrote
(my responses usually follow points raised):
>On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 12:43:13 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
><G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>
>>My friend has decided she'd like programs to install on F:, and put
>>their data on G:.
>>
>>How wise or otherwise this is
>
>My C: drive is a limited size SSD. So I install other software on D:
>when I am given the option.
>
As is hers (though 250G, so some time to go yet).

But you have to manually intervene (and, as you say, you're not always
given the option). It'd save a lot of time if there was some way of
telling Windows to _default_ to a different drive (and less deep for the
data location too).

Carlos's question about SymLinks is an interesting one - if we can just
put something in C:\Program Files (and (x32)) that redirects to the same
folder(s) on F:, that might work, though (even if it works) it sounds
decidedly clunky to me, and a change to the default would be preferable.

In much the same way that "Documents" (at least they've got rid of - I
think! - the patronising "My "; I'm not a five-year-old, and don't need
"my little pony" or "my first Sony") can, though the process is
tortuous, be relocated to somewhere else, it'd be good if Program Files
could be, and AppData too. (For those that want to.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I love the way Microsoft follows standards. In much the same manner that fish
follow migrating caribou. - Paul Tomblin, cited by "The Real Bev", 2017-2-18.

On 9/19/2021 4:43 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> My friend has decided she'd like programs to install on F:, and put
> their data on G:.
>
> How wise or otherwise this is, can we _please_ leave to another thread?
> (My own view is that there's little point in trying to keep non-OS
> software separate from the OS, as most software sprays files all over
> the place - such as in system32 - and so much in the registry.

With one minor change, your point is correct. I would change "little
point" to "no point."

> So I just
> image my C: from time to time, knowing that in the event of disaster I
> can restore from the image, and have both my OS and all software back
> how I want it, in one go. [Keeping _data_ separate I agree with.] But as
> I say, let's start another thread if we want to argue about that!)
>
> At present, all software, if it gives any choice in the matter, defaults
> to installing itself in C:\Program Files [or Program Files (x86)], and
> to making a data folder that's on C: too. Some software doesn't even
> ask, but most does. (It also tends to want to bury things way down - in
> something like C:\Users\<name>\AppData\roaming\...; my friend, like the
> majority of home users I suspect, is sole user, so doesn't _need_ all
> that structure, so would prefer just G:\<softwareName>.) In most cases,
> where software _does_ ask, it does let you choose where to put itself
> and its data (though I came across an interesting one this week - Online
> Bible, fairly ancient - that would let you type in G:\blah\blah, but
> immediately changed it to just G: as soon as you tabbed away from that
> field. Ignore that one).
>
> _Is_ there any setting that can be changed so the _default_ drive isn't
> C:? Either for prog. or its data? (And, ideally, get rid of the long and
> tortuous burying?)
>
> My friend's system is W10-64, but I'd be interested - if there is an
> answer (other than "no" of course!) - to know for W7 (-32 if it makes
> any difference) too.
>

--
Ken

On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 08:07:20 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

> On 9/19/2021 4:43 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>> My friend has decided she'd like programs to install on F:, and put
>> their data on G:.
>>
>> How wise or otherwise this is, can we _please_ leave to another thread?
>> (My own view is that there's little point in trying to keep non-OS
>> software separate from the OS, as most software sprays files all over
>> the place - such as in system32 - and so much in the registry.
>
>
> With one minor change, your point is correct. I would change "little
> point" to "no point."
>
>
>
>> So I just image my C: from time to time, knowing that in the event of
>> disaster I can restore from the image, and have both my OS and all
>> software back how I want it, in one go. [Keeping _data_ separate I
>> agree with.] But as I say, let's start another thread if we want to
>> argue about that!)
>>
>> At present, all software, if it gives any choice in the matter,
>> defaults to installing itself in C:\Program Files [or Program Files
>> (x86)], and to making a data folder that's on C: too. Some software
>> doesn't even ask, but most does. (It also tends to want to bury things
>> way down - in something like C:\Users\<name>\AppData\roaming\...; my
>> friend, like the majority of home users I suspect, is sole user, so
>> doesn't _need_ all that structure, so would prefer just
>> G:\<softwareName>.) In most cases, where software _does_ ask, it does
>> let you choose where to put itself and its data (though I came across
>> an interesting one this week - Online Bible, fairly ancient - that
>> would let you type in G:\blah\blah, but immediately changed it to just
>> G: as soon as you tabbed away from that field. Ignore that one).
>>
>> _Is_ there any setting that can be changed so the _default_ drive isn't
>> C:? Either for prog. or its data? (And, ideally, get rid of the long
>> and tortuous burying?)
>>
>> My friend's system is W10-64, but I'd be interested - if there is an
>> answer (other than "no" of course!) - to know for W7 (-32 if it makes
>> any difference) too.
>>

Back when I used windows, I would make "My Documents" folder a link to
another drive. I long ago switched to Linux. Linux offers where to locate
user data during advanced installation, but is easy to change later.
Windows on the other hand requires a detective to locate where stuff is
stored.

On 19/09/2021 15.35, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 at 08:33:37, Dennis <nobody@nowhere.invalid> wrote
> (my responses usually follow points raised):

....

> Carlos's question about SymLinks is an interesting one - if we can just
> put something in C:\Program Files (and (x32)) that redirects to the same
> folder(s) on F:, that might work, though (even if it works) it sounds
> decidedly clunky to me, and a change to the default would be preferable.

Another idea coming from Linux: can Windows do "bind mounts"?

How can I explain.. In Linux, I write this in fstab:

/home/_var_spool_news /var/spool/news none bind

Means that I put the existing directory "/home/_var_spool_news" to be
grafted or virtually mounted at directory "/var/spool/news".

The idea would be to graft G:\Programs into C:\Programs

It is not a symlink: in Linux, the programs are capable or "viewing" the
link, whereas a bind mount is totally transparent.

Windows has symlinks of some kind, but I have not heard of bind mounts
there.

> In much the same way that "Documents" (at least they've got rid of - I
> think! - the patronising "My "; I'm not a five-year-old, and don't need
> "my little pony" or "my first Sony") can, though the process is
> tortuous, be relocated to somewhere else, it'd be good if Program Files
> could be, and AppData too. (For those that want to.)

AFAIR, not globally, but per user, at the time I looked into it.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 19/09/2021 13.43, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>> My friend has decided she'd like programs to install on F:, and put
>> their data on G:.
>
> Do we have symlinks in Windows?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolic_link#NTFS_symbolic_link

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolic_link#NTFS_junction_points

*******

# Symbolic Link (can go off-partition)

cd /d C:\ # Set working directory to C: root, before
# fiddling Program files.

mklink /D "Program Files" "E:\Program Files" # symbolic link. The source is
# a relative path. The CD matters.

# Junction point (system uses these already, in HomeDir, for potential redirect)

mklink /J "C:\Program Files" "E:\Program Files" # Apparently a Junction can go
# off partition and notice
# the references are absolute paths

# Hardlink. Apparently used for files only. Shares the 4K data clusters.
Used by Windows, to link items from WinSXS maintenance folder, to places
like C:\windows\System32 and friends. Must stay on partition, so this
is not a "space saving by moving off disk", this is a "space saving
by sharing the same data clusters with two file pointers".

mklink /H link.txt target.txt # Both pointers on the same partition.
# The ownership and permissions would be the
# same on both of them.

You can also use "subst", which is an older redirection
mechanism, but that's the wrong item for this job. I only
mention that as one of the set of linking capabilities
Windows has. Windows also has .lnk when making a shortcut,
which again, is not the right animal for this task.

And no, I'm not writing out all the steps to do this
Program File movement.

Depending on method used, there is at least one registry
setting to change. My answer is intended to give some idea
how many linking mechanisms Windows has. It has slowly
caught up with the competition.

Each of the linking mechanisms has "issues", such as not
being able to descent a Junction Point without getting
a "Path Too Long" error. Linux has a similar problem
with infinite recursion on one of its linking mechanisms.

While pictures like this one, represent an acknowledgment by
Microsoft that small storage devices suck, this interface
doesn't seem to solve the problem entirely.

https://images.techhive.com/images/article/2016/03/storagesettings-100648307-large.png?auto=webp

And Nirsoft apparently has a tool for listing some of that
kind of content (linkages). Even good ole "nfi.exe" doesn't
entirely solve such problems, as it does not have a
representation that dumps all the linkage info contained
in the partition. For example, in nfi.exe, I can tell
that a filenum has two pointers in it (houses a hard link),
but the on-screen info does not tell me where the pointers
point to. That's a secret. Similarly, if there are Reparse Points
in a filenum, there's no representation for that either. If
someone would only rewrite "nfi.exe" and bring it into this
century, we might end up with a good tool. nfi.exe is at least
18 years old right now, and I'm still using it.

Really, no tool is perfect on Windows, when it comes to file
systems, and I *still* don't have a utility that can tell me
if "two disks are identical".

Paul

Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
[...]

> Do we have symlinks in Windows?
>
> My main system being Linux, it is an obvious idea to achieve the goal.
> Thus, the question would be whether Window 10 has symlinks. Then just
> symlink the normal place in C: to any other disk.
>
> Is that possible and would it work?

I just did a quick search on "how to put program files on a different
drive" [1], which - amongst many others - gave this hit:

'Move Program Files to Another Drive Windows 10/8/7 | 3 Ways'
<https://www.ubackup.com/backup-restore/move-program-files-to-another-drive-windows-10.html#toc.0.7197484428211234>

The document describes several methods and one of them uses symbolic
links, which apparently Windows *does* have,

The command in question is 'MKLINK', which has this (mklink /?) usage
info:

<quote>

Creates a symbolic link.

MKLINK [[/D] | [/H] | [/J]] Link Target

/D Creates a directory symbolic link. Default is a file
symbolic link.
/H Creates a hard link instead of a symbolic link.
/J Creates a Directory Junction.
Link specifies the new symbolic link name.
Target specifies the path (relative or absolute) that the new link
refers to.

</quote>

[1] While typing that search string, Google lists many other related
searches.

On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 08:07:20 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
> On 9/19/2021 4:43 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> > [quoted text muted]
> > How wise or otherwise this is, can we _please_ leave to another thread?
> > (My own view is that there's little point in trying to keep non-OS
> > software separate from the OS, as most software sprays files all over
> > the place - such as in system32 - and so much in the registry.
>
>
> With one minor change, your point is correct. I would change "little
> point" to "no point."

Unless, of course, you're running out of space on C:.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
https://OakRoadSystems.com/
Shikata ga nai...

On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 12:43:13 +0100, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> _Is_ there any setting that can be changed so the _default_ drive isn't
> C:? Either for prog. or its data? (And, ideally, get rid of the long and
> tortuous burying?)

System environment variables for program locations:
ProgramFiles
ProgramFles(x86)
You could change that to G:. But the risk is that previously
installed programs, if not well written, would break.

System environment variables for application data:
APPDATA
LOCALAPPDATA
You could change those, but with the risk that previously installed
programs would not be able to find their settings. You could move
existing existing C:\Users\{name}\Appdata\Roaming and C:\Users\{name}
\Appdata\Local files and folders to the new location, which would
reduce the risk, but then all your pointers for pinned data files and
most-recently-user data files would be pointing to the old location.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
https://OakRoadSystems.com/
Shikata ga nai...

On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 12:43:13 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

>My friend has decided she'd like programs to install on F:, and put
>their data on G:.
>
>How wise or otherwise this is, can we _please_ leave to another thread?
>(My own view is that there's little point in trying to keep non-OS
>software separate from the OS, as most software sprays files all over
>the place - such as in system32 - and so much in the registry. So I just
>image my C: from time to time, knowing that in the event of disaster I
>can restore from the image, and have both my OS and all software back
>how I want it, in one go. [Keeping _data_ separate I agree with.] But as
>I say, let's start another thread if we want to argue about that!)
>
>At present, all software, if it gives any choice in the matter, defaults
>to installing itself in C:\Program Files [or Program Files (x86)], and
>to making a data folder that's on C: too. Some software doesn't even
>ask, but most does. (It also tends to want to bury things way down - in
>something like C:\Users\<name>\AppData\roaming\...; my friend, like the
>majority of home users I suspect, is sole user, so doesn't _need_ all
>that structure, so would prefer just G:\<softwareName>.) In most cases,
>where software _does_ ask, it does let you choose where to put itself
>and its data (though I came across an interesting one this week - Online
>Bible, fairly ancient - that would let you type in G:\blah\blah, but
>immediately changed it to just G: as soon as you tabbed away from that
>field. Ignore that one).
>
>_Is_ there any setting that can be changed so the _default_ drive isn't
>C:? Either for prog. or its data? (And, ideally, get rid of the long and
>tortuous burying?)
>
>My friend's system is W10-64, but I'd be interested - if there is an
>answer (other than "no" of course!) - to know for W7 (-32 if it makes
>any difference) too.

Been a couple of years, but changing the registry worked. Installed
the apps to K:\
There were side effects, if you don't restore the orginal settings
Windows updates fail..imagine that. The apps still send data to C:\
Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion
C:\Program Files
C:\Program Files (x86)

On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 at 14:12:42, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote (my
responses usually follow points raised):
[]
>> On 19/09/2021 13.43, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>>> My friend has decided she'd like programs to install on F:, and put
>>> their data on G:.
[]
># Symbolic Link (can go off-partition)
[]
># Junction point (system uses these already, in HomeDir, for potential
>redirect)
[]
># Hardlink. Apparently used for files only. Shares the 4K data clusters.
[]
>And no, I'm not writing out all the steps to do this
>Program File movement.

Thanks - marked Keep for future reference, but way too deep for this
bear of little brain (-:.
Besides, I was really hoping for a way to make software default to using
somewhere else, not just use somewhere else and _think_ it's using
somewhere on C:, which - if they worked at all - the links (of whichever
sort) would do, if I understand the concept at all. (The system
variables thing _might_ work - see later posts.)
[]
>Each of the linking mechanisms has "issues", such as not
[]
>Really, no tool is perfect on Windows, when it comes to file
>systems, and I *still* don't have a utility that can tell me
>if "two disks are identical".
>
> Paul
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Who came first? Adam or Eve?" "Adam of course; men always do."
Victoria Wood (via Peter Hesketh)

On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 at 15:36:10, Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm>
wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
>On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 08:07:20 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On 9/19/2021 4:43 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>> > [quoted text muted]
>> > How wise or otherwise this is, can we _please_ leave to another thread?
>> > (My own view is that there's little point in trying to keep non-OS
>> > software separate from the OS, as most software sprays files all over
>> > the place - such as in system32 - and so much in the registry.
>>
>>
>> With one minor change, your point is correct. I would change "little
>> point" to "no point."

I did say can we move to another thread if we want to argue about that
(the "I'll reinstall _everything_ if something goes wrong" people might
disagree anyway, or might not) ...
>
>Unless, of course, you're running out of space on C:.
>
.... though that's a good one. (Though IMO if it happens you misjudged
when setting up partitions/drives. But it can happen, especially if you
have sloppily-written software that doesn't let you choose where to put
stuff, like where iTunes backs up your iPhone. [iSoftware didn't seem to
acknowledge the existence of other than C:, last time I did battle with
it, though maybe it does/did and I just didn't find it.])
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Who came first? Adam or Eve?" "Adam of course; men always do."
Victoria Wood (via Peter Hesketh)

On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 at 15:42:41, Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm>
wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
>On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 12:43:13 +0100, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>> _Is_ there any setting that can be changed so the _default_ drive isn't
>> C:? Either for prog. or its data? (And, ideally, get rid of the long and
>> tortuous burying?)
>
>System environment variables for program locations:
> ProgramFiles
> ProgramFles(x86)
>You could change that to G:. But the risk is that previously

That sounds promising; it's the sort of thing I was thinking of, anyway.
If it made the install location for new software _default_ to other than
C:, sounds good.

(Except there's always the fear that a W10 "up"date might reset it.)

>installed programs, if not well written, would break.

Yes, one wouldn't know whether to move already-installed files
(including those for parts of Windows) from the C: location or not;
depends whether softwares look for themselves in an explicit location,
or use a %systemvariable%/... type of where-am-I. And I bet some use
one, others use the other.
>
>System environment variables for application data:
> APPDATA
> LOCALAPPDATA
>You could change those, but with the risk that previously installed
>programs would not be able to find their settings. You could move
>existing existing C:\Users\{name}\Appdata\Roaming and C:\Users\{name}
>\Appdata\Local files and folders to the new location, which would

Same problem - depends whether the affected software looks for their
data in explicitly C:\<blah>, or uses %mydata%/blah.

(Plus the confusion between AppData, LocalAppData, roaming, floating,
sinking, ...)

>reduce the risk, but then all your pointers for pinned data files and
>most-recently-user data files would be pointing to the old location.
>
I could accept having to redo pins, shortcuts, MRU, and so on - I think
they'd be the least of the worries.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Who came first? Adam or Eve?" "Adam of course; men always do."
Victoria Wood (via Peter Hesketh)

On 9/20/2021 7:32 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 at 15:36:10, Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm>
> wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
>>On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 08:07:20 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
>>> On 9/19/2021 4:43 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>>> > [quoted text muted]
>>> > How wise or otherwise this is, can we _please_ leave to another thread?
>>> > (My own view is that there's little point in trying to keep non-OS
>>> > software separate from the OS, as most software sprays files all over
>>> > the place - such as in system32 - and so much in the registry.
>>>
>>>
>>> With one minor change, your point is correct. I would change "little
>>> point" to "no point."
>
> I did say can we move to another thread if we want to argue about that
> (the "I'll reinstall _everything_ if something goes wrong" people might
> disagree anyway, or might not) ...

Yes, I know. Let me suggest that in the future, if you want that to
happen, the best way to do it is to start another thread yourself, and
in the original thread point out that you did and what its subject name is.

Also note that I wasn't arguing about it. I was agreeing with your point
and making it even more strongly than you did.

>>Unless, of course, you're running out of space on C:.
>>
> ... though that's a good one.

Yes, of course. I didn't bother to point it out, since to me it was obvious.

> (Though IMO if it happens you misjudged
> when setting up partitions/drives.

Yes, a very good point.

> But it can happen, especially if you
> have sloppily-written software that doesn't let you choose where to put
> stuff, like where iTunes backs up your iPhone. [iSoftware didn't seem to
> acknowledge the existence of other than C:, last time I did battle with
> it, though maybe it does/did and I just didn't find it.])
>

--
Ken

On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 12:43:13 +0100, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>
> _Is_ there any setting that can be changed so the _default_ drive isn't
> C:? Either for prog. or its data? (And, ideally, get rid of the long and
> tortuous burying?)

Yes. Depending on which directory, the setting can be either process
specific, user specific, or global, which are already mentioned in the other
replies. But we can't change which one the software installers should use,
because it's in the software code. i.e. a program may specifically choose to
use a predefined path; or either one of above, and optionally with a
fallback e.g. process -> user -> global.

What you want, which is: change once, applies forever; would be a setting
which affect programs globally or for the current user. This will surely
affects existing programs which are already installed into drive C:,
especially if they rely only on settings, rather than on which
drive+directory they are actually running from.

So, yes. There's a setting for it. And yes, you can change it. But not
without a side effect.

The real problem here is mainly because Windows platform has no software
installation specification (read: rules) which is agreed and used by all
kind of software installers such as Inno Setup, Nullsoft Installer, Windows
Istallers (MSI), InstallShield, etc. including self extracting archive
programs.

Because of a problem like yours, some of these software installers provide a
way to specify a default installation path. But because there is no agreed
software installation specification, each of those software installers use a
method which is different and/or incompatible with another.

On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 at 08:35:57, TheChief <9thInf-1stCav@VietVet.org>
wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
>On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 12:43:13 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
><G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>
>>My friend has decided she'd like programs to install on F:, and put
>>their data on G:.
>>
>>How wise or otherwise this is, can we _please_ leave to another thread?
[]
>>_Is_ there any setting that can be changed so the _default_ drive isn't
>>C:? Either for prog. or its data? (And, ideally, get rid of the long and
>>tortuous burying?)
[]
>Been a couple of years, but changing the registry worked. Installed
>the apps to K:\
>There were side effects, if you don't restore the orginal settings
>Windows updates fail..imagine that. The apps still send data to C:\
>Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion
>C:\Program Files
>C:\Program Files (x86)

Interesting. I wonder if that's where environment variables (as
suggested by another poster) are stored.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Who came first? Adam or Eve?" "Adam of course; men always do."
Victoria Wood (via Peter Hesketh)

On 20/09/2021 15:44, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 at 08:35:57, TheChief <9thInf-1stCav@VietVet.org>
> wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
>>
>> There were side effects, if you don't restore the orginal settings
>> Windows updates fail..imagine that.  The apps still send data to C:\
>> Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion
>> C:\Program Files
>> C:\Program Files (x86)
>
> Interesting. I wonder if that's where environment variables (as
> suggested by another poster) are stored.

No, it's:

HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Environment

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

Ii had the same problem when installing ON1 Photo 10.
The answer I found for Windows 7 is as in
https://on1help.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360024022811-Installing-ON1-Photo-10-on-D-drive

I dont know if this would work in Win 10 but I assume that ir would.
Caveat - involves changing registry

On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 12:43:13 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

>My friend has decided she'd like programs to install on F:, and put
>their data on G:.
>
>How wise or otherwise this is, can we _please_ leave to another thread?
>(My own view is that there's little point in trying to keep non-OS
>software separate from the OS, as most software sprays files all over
>the place - such as in system32 - and so much in the registry. So I just
>image my C: from time to time, knowing that in the event of disaster I
>can restore from the image, and have both my OS and all software back
>how I want it, in one go. [Keeping _data_ separate I agree with.] But as
>I say, let's start another thread if we want to argue about that!)
>
>At present, all software, if it gives any choice in the matter, defaults
>to installing itself in C:\Program Files [or Program Files (x86)], and
>to making a data folder that's on C: too. Some software doesn't even
>ask, but most does. (It also tends to want to bury things way down - in
>something like C:\Users\<name>\AppData\roaming\...; my friend, like the
>majority of home users I suspect, is sole user, so doesn't _need_ all
>that structure, so would prefer just G:\<softwareName>.) In most cases,
>where software _does_ ask, it does let you choose where to put itself
>and its data (though I came across an interesting one this week - Online
>Bible, fairly ancient - that would let you type in G:\blah\blah, but
>immediately changed it to just G: as soon as you tabbed away from that
>field. Ignore that one).
>
>_Is_ there any setting that can be changed so the _default_ drive isn't
>C:? Either for prog. or its data? (And, ideally, get rid of the long and
>tortuous burying?)
>
>My friend's system is W10-64, but I'd be interested - if there is an
>answer (other than "no" of course!) - to know for W7 (-32 if it makes
>any difference) too.

--
remove fred before emailing

On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 15:40:41 +0100, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 at 15:42:41, Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm>
> wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
> > [quoted text muted]
> >System environment variables for program locations:
> > ProgramFiles
> > ProgramFles(x86)
> >You could change that to G:. But the risk is that previously
>
> That sounds promising; it's the sort of thing I was thinking of, anyway.
> If it made the install location for new software _default_ to other than
> C:, sounds good.
>
> (Except there's always the fear that a W10 "up"date might reset it.)
>
> >installed programs, if not well written, would break.
>
> Yes, one wouldn't know whether to move already-installed files
> (including those for parts of Windows) from the C: location or not;
> depends whether softwares look for themselves in an explicit location,
> or use a %systemvariable%/... type of where-am-I. And I bet some use
> one, others use the other.

A possible solution for that: a symlink. I haven't used them myself,
but only know what I've read. If I understand things correctly, a
symlink can make your new install location appear to be part of C:
\Program Files, or vice versa. And if I'm not mistaken, this ought to
work even with applications that have stored hard-coded paths,
because the operating system automatically follows symlinks.

But again, I'm theorizing here based on reading; I don't have any
actual experience.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
https://OakRoadSystems.com/
Shikata ga nai...

On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 08:35:57 -0400, TheChief wrote:
> The apps still send data to C:\
> Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion
> C:\Program Files
> C:\Program Files (x86)

I'm not familiar with that notation. The bit beginning HKEY looks
like a registry key, but the earlier bit looks like the start of a
file path. But shouldn't drive C: be _under_ Computer, not above it?

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
https://OakRoadSystems.com/
Shikata ga nai...

On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 15:44:09 +0100, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> Interesting. I wonder if that's where environment variables (as
> suggested by another poster) are stored.

A quick google for "environment variables in windows registry":
(without quotes) revealed a bunch of good hits. The first one:

http://www.dowdandassociates.com/blog/content/howto-set-an-
environment-variable-in-windows-command-line-and-registry/

gave this:

* HKCU\Environment for user-level variables
* HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Environment
for system-level variables

along with additional background info, including the setx command,
which was new to me.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
https://OakRoadSystems.com/
Shikata ga nai...

On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 at 17:52:06, scbs29 <scbs29@fred.talktalk.net> wrote
(my responses usually follow points raised):
>Ii had the same problem when installing ON1 Photo 10.
>The answer I found for Windows 7 is as in
>https://on1help.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360024022811-Instal
>ling-ON1-Photo-10-on-D-drive
>
>I dont know if this would work in Win 10 but I assume that ir would.
>Caveat - involves changing registry
[]
Thanks.

From one of the followup comments:

"The link is

https://www.thewindowsclub.com/change-default-program-files-directory-win
dows

However, the caveat is that Microsoft does not support changing it in
this way, as in

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/933700/microsoft-does-not-suppor
t-changing-the-location-of-the-program-files

So it should only be done temporarily while installing, then the
registry value changed back."

That sounds like _more_ work than just manually changing the install
directory during installation.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

it is easy to make up a lie, but it can take much more time and effort to
convincingly refute it. - Patrick Cockburn, i, 2016-9-24

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in
news:AEsAa9fRJyRhFw3D@255soft.uk:

> My friend has decided she'd like programs to install on F:,
> and put their data on G:.
>
> How wise or otherwise this is, can we _please_ leave to
> another thread?

It seems that there's an unsupported way to do this...

https://www.thewindowsclub.com/change-default-program-files-directory-windows

**I** wouldn't attempt this however.

I'm not sure how I would handle this, other than specifying the location at the time of each
installation.

I do use an alternative location for non-UAC compliant apps that don't work properly when
installed under ProgramFiles/ProgramFiles(x86). And that's c:\Programs. All my PCs
have a 'Program Files', 'Program Files (x86)', and 'Programs' directory.

In other news...there's a SymLink extension for Windows Explorer...

https://www.techspot.com/downloads/7107-hardlink-shell-extension.html