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computers / alt.comp.os.windows-10 / Re: disk to VHD

SubjectAuthor
* disk to VHDphilo
+- Re: disk to VHDIdaho Homo Joe
+* Re: disk to VHDPaul
|+- Re: disk to VHDphilo
|`* Re: disk to VHDphilo
| +* Re: disk to VHDphilo
| |`* Re: disk to VHDPaul
| | `* Re: disk to VHDphilo
| |  `* Re: disk to VHDPaul
| |   `- Re: disk to VHDphilo
| `* Re: disk to VHDFrank Slootweg
|  `* Re: disk to VHDphilo
|   `* Re: disk to VHDFrank Slootweg
|    `* Re: disk to VHDKen Blake
|     `* Re: disk to VHDFrank Slootweg
|      +* Re: disk to VHDphilo
|      |+* Re: disk to VHDPaul
|      ||`* Re: disk to VHDphilo
|      || `* Re: disk to VHDJ. P. Gilliver (John)
|      ||  `* Re: disk to VHDKen Blake
|      ||   `* Re: disk to VHDJ. P. Gilliver (John)
|      ||    `* Re: disk to VHDKen Blake
|      ||     `* Re: disk to VHDJ. P. Gilliver (John)
|      ||      `- Re: disk to VHDKen Blake
|      |+* Re: disk to VHDRabidHussar
|      ||`* Re: disk to VHDphilo
|      || +- Re: disk to VHDPaul
|      || `* Re: disk to VHDRabidHussar
|      ||  `- Re: disk to VHDPaul
|      |`* Re: disk to VHDKen Blake
|      | `* windows iterations (was: Re: disk to VHD)J. P. Gilliver (John)
|      |  +* Re: windows iterations (was: Re: disk to VHD)J. P. Gilliver (John)
|      |  |`- Re: windows iterations (was: Re: disk to VHD)Mark Lloyd
|      |  +- Re: windows iterations (was: Re: disk to VHD)Ken Blake
|      |  +- Re: windows iterations (was: Re: disk to VHD)Mark Lloyd
|      |  `* Re: windows iterationsFrank Slootweg
|      |   `* Re: windows iterationsPaul
|      |    `* Re: windows iterationsRabidHussar
|      |     +- Re: windows iterationsKen Blake
|      |     `- Re: windows iterationsFrank Slootweg
|      `- Re: disk to VHDKen Blake
+* Re: disk to VHD Follow Upphilo
|`* Re: disk to VHD Follow UpPaul
| `- Re: disk to VHD Follow Upphilo
`- Re: disk to VHD Hey...I got the results I wantedphilo

Pages:12
Re: disk to VHD

<M452J.63722$Dr.29401@fx40.iad>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=55768&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#55768

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Subject: Re: disk to VHD
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
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From: rabid@huss.ar (RabidHussar)
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 by: RabidHussar - Mon, 20 Sep 2021 19:14 UTC

On 2021-09-20 11:53 a.m., philo wrote:
> I have been building and repairing machines for over 20 years and have
> found Linux ideal for organizations who serve people with limited finances.
> I've set up old machines which are great for giving the people Internet
> browsers.
>
> All the maint I have to do is occasuinalky go in and delete the Windows
> exe malware piled up on the desktop.
>
> As to my buddy...he uses his machine mainly to sell books on eBay and
> though his scanner would work on Linux...he would still have to learn
> something different and I don't want to waste my time baby-sitting

With Linux Mint, there's not much to learn. However, let's be honest:
he's not learned anything about Windows anyway if he still asks you to
help him out. :)

--
@RabidHussar

Re: disk to VHD

<iqsdeaFcjffU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: ken@invalidemail.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: disk to VHD
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2021 14:40:26 -0700
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In-Reply-To: <si83hd.6b4.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
 by: Ken Blake - Mon, 20 Sep 2021 21:40 UTC

On 9/19/2021 10:38 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>> On 9/19/2021 7:29 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>> > philo <philo@privacy.net> wrote:
>> > [...]
>> >
>> >> BTW: When I booted up Win8.1 it found a bunch of updates, many from this
>> >> year. I thought they were on the "paid support" only phase.
>> >
>> > No, only 'Mainstream support' has ended (on January 9, 2018). Windows
>> > 8.1 still is in 'Extended support' (till January 10, 2023).
>> >
>> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_8.1#End-of-life>
>>
>> I know that, but what I don't know is exactly what the difference is
>> between mainstream support and extended support. Can you or anyone else
>> here explain it, or point me to a web page that explains it?
>
> Well, a short search gives this hit:
>
> <https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/policies/fixed#mainstream-support>
>
> As most Microsoft documents, it's - IMO - clear as mud. 'Enjoy'!

Yes, I've seen that and it doesn't give me a clear answer, which is why
I asked. Thanks anyway..

> I searched on "what does microsoft "mainstream support" mean" (without
> outer quotes) and this was the first (and only?) Microsoft document, but
> there are many other pages from other sources.
>
> FWIW, I interpret 'Mainstream support' as the period when you are
> likely to get changes/additions/enhancements/<whatever> (and bug fixes
> and security fixes) and 'Extended support' as the period when you only
> get bug fixes and security fixes.
>

--
Ken

Re: disk to VHD

<sib2ol$6n1$1@dont-email.me>

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From: nospam@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: disk to VHD
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2021 18:42:30 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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In-Reply-To: <M452J.63722$Dr.29401@fx40.iad>
 by: Paul - Mon, 20 Sep 2021 22:42 UTC

RabidHussar wrote:
> On 2021-09-20 11:53 a.m., philo wrote:
>> I have been building and repairing machines for over 20 years and have
>> found Linux ideal for organizations who serve people with limited
>> finances.
>> I've set up old machines which are great for giving the people
>> Internet browsers.
>>
>> All the maint I have to do is occasuinalky go in and delete the
>> Windows exe malware piled up on the desktop.
>>
>> As to my buddy...he uses his machine mainly to sell books on eBay and
>> though his scanner would work on Linux...he would still have to learn
>> something different and I don't want to waste my time baby-sitting
>
> With Linux Mint, there's not much to learn. However, let's be honest:
> he's not learned anything about Windows anyway if he still asks you to
> help him out. :)
>

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/update/windows-update-logs

# Open an Administrator Powershell window

PS C:\> Get-WindowsUpdateLog

Converting C:\Windows\logs\WindowsUpdate into C:\Users\Admin\Desktop\WindowsUpdate.log

In that folder should be some ETL (event files). These are binary
and need to be translated to a text representation, then stored
in the output logfile.

The claim is, perhaps in the past it was here. But the Powershell
command will put it on the Desktop where you can see it.

C:\Windows\Logs\WindowsUpdate\windowsupdate.log

*******

# There is also the Component Based Servicing log.

%systemroot%\Logs\CBS\CBS.log == C:\Windows\Logs\CBS\CBS.log

notepad C:\Windows\Logs\CBS\CBS.log

Those are examples of places to look for inspiration.

The CBS.log is the usual unreadable material, but if there
is a simple problem and the text repeats over and over again
in a consistent way, you might copy that into a Google search.

Paul

Re: disk to VHD

<iqv9r1FtdtlU2@mid.individual.net>

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From: ken@invalidemail.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: disk to VHD
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2021 16:57:21 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Tue, 21 Sep 2021 23:57 UTC

On 9/20/2021 3:54 AM, philo wrote:
> On 9/19/2021 12:38 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>> Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>>> On 9/19/2021 7:29 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>>> philo <philo@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>>> BTW: When I booted up Win8.1 it found a bunch of updates, many from this
>>>>> year. I thought they were on the "paid support" only phase.
>>>>
>>>> No, only 'Mainstream support' has ended (on January 9, 2018). Windows
>>>> 8.1 still is in 'Extended support' (till January 10, 2023).
>>>>
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_8.1#End-of-life>
>>>
>>> I know that, but what I don't know is exactly what the difference is
>>> between mainstream support and extended support. Can you or anyone else
>>> here explain it, or point me to a web page that explains it?
>>
>> Well, a short search gives this hit:
>>
>> <https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/policies/fixed#mainstream-support>
>>
>> As most Microsoft documents, it's - IMO - clear as mud. 'Enjoy'!
>>
>> I searched on "what does microsoft "mainstream support" mean" (without
>> outer quotes) and this was the first (and only?) Microsoft document, but
>> there are many other pages from other sources.
>>
>> FWIW, I interpret 'Mainstream support' as the period when you are
>> likely to get changes/additions/enhancements/<whatever> (and bug fixes
>> and security fixes) and 'Extended support' as the period when you only
>> get bug fixes and security fixes.
>>
>
>
> I have a friend with a limited budget who is still using Win7
>
> His machine does not have the specs for Win10 but that last time I had
> it on the bench here, I contemplated an upgrade to Win8
>
> Win7 can be upgraded to Win8 with all apps left in place...but a direct
> upgrade to 8.1 will put everything in Windows.old and start fresh....so
> I would have had to do two upgrades.
>
> I have a test machine on my bench where I went through the procedure.
> BTW: I purposely did some minor sabotage to the Win8.1 installation and
> on my 15 year old test machine, all repair options failed...including a
> fresh install of Win8.1
> The fresh install of Win8 worked though.
>
> I did put the 8.1 installation into a Hypervisor before I destroyed it,
> so I can experiment again if I so desire
>
> Too much trouble for too little gain.
>
> I figure since Firefox is still getting updates as well as his virus
> checker, he should be OK.

I almost always think each new version of Windows is better than its
predecessor. The one flagrant counterexample, as far as I'm concerned,
is version 7 to 8.

--
Ken

Re: disk to VHD

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From: ken@invalidemail.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: disk to VHD
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2021 17:05:00 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Wed, 22 Sep 2021 00:05 UTC

On 9/20/2021 8:19 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 at 11:59:21, philo <philo@news.novabbs.com> wrote
> (my responses usually follow points raised):
> []
>>When he first got his computer, I talked him through his email setup
>>...and even though when he read back all his settings to me, it did not
>>work.
>>
>>Had to go over there to see he entered his email address : Joe at gmail.com
>>
>>At least he did not spell out "dot."
>
> While we may laugh (or put head in hands), this is a reminder that not
> everyone thinks as we do, or knows what we do. After all, the @ sign
> isn't common anywhere else, and I wouldn't be surprised if not a lot of
> people knew of it before email was so common; I did know of it, but
> rarely encountered it.
>
> (As for "dot", I don't think that was common usage either before "the
> dot com boom" - people said "full stop" [UK] or "period" [US], or
> "point" in figures.)

America was thus clearly top nation, and History came to a .

--
Ken

Re: disk to VHD Hey...I got the results I wanted

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From: philo@privacy.net (philo)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: disk to VHD Hey...I got the results I wanted
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2021 21:40:51 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: philo - Wed, 22 Sep 2021 02:40 UTC

On 9/18/21 2:59 PM, philo wrote:
> I just used Microsoft's utility disk2vhd   to test win10's Hyper-V
>
> I have a Win8.1 installation on a hard drive and when I converted it for
> use on Hyper-V I was pleased with the good results.  I've used Virtual
> Box to run Win98 specifically to run a 16 bit game, but Hyper-V is
> pretty nice.
>
>
> The only thing about disk2vhd is that it can only see Windows drives.
>
> For my next project I'd like to try a real challenge.
>
> I have an old SCO  Unix server that I'd like to see if I can run in
> Hyper-V.   This might be tricky as it is extremely fussy about H/W
> changes. It requires a kernel re-compile after even small changes and
> afterwards there is a chance of kernel panic.
>
> Rather than keep cloning HD's, It would be a lot easier to experiment
> with a spare VHD
>
>
> Anyone know of good software that can convert a non-Windows HD to VHD?

I ended up installing SCO in a virtual machine but the system hung
during boot, no matter which settings I used...HOWEVER I was able to
boot to the single user mode and finally get to the text based games I
wanted to fool with.

No need for a GUI and no need for me to clone a physical hard drive.

Now I can get some rest.

I've sure had a lot of wrest

Re: disk to VHD

<VRzVvSKgHyShFws7@255soft.uk>

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Message-ID: <VRzVvSKgHyShFws7@255soft.uk>
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:30:24 +0100
From: G6JPG@255soft.uk (J. P. Gilliver (John))
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: disk to VHD
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 by: J. P. Gilliver (John - Wed, 22 Sep 2021 12:30 UTC

On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 at 17:05:00, Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote
(my responses usually follow points raised):
>On 9/20/2021 8:19 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 at 11:59:21, philo <philo@news.novabbs.com> wrote
>> (my responses usually follow points raised):
[]
>>>Had to go over there to see he entered his email address : Joe at gmail.com
>>>
>>>At least he did not spell out "dot."
>> While we may laugh (or put head in hands), this is a reminder that
>>not
>> everyone thinks as we do, or knows what we do. After all, the @ sign
>> isn't common anywhere else, and I wouldn't be surprised if not a lot of
>> people knew of it before email was so common; I did know of it, but
>> rarely encountered it.
>> (As for "dot", I don't think that was common usage either before
>>"the
>> dot com boom" - people said "full stop" [UK] or "period" [US], or
>> "point" in figures.)
>
>
>
>America was thus clearly top nation, and History came to a .
>
>
Chiz.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Veni, Vidi, Video (I came, I saw, I'll watch it again later) - Mik from S+AS
Limited (mik@saslimited.demon.co.uk), 1998

windows iterations (was: Re: disk to VHD)

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Subject: windows iterations (was: Re: disk to VHD)
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 by: J. P. Gilliver (John - Wed, 22 Sep 2021 12:59 UTC

On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 at 16:57:21, Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote
(my responses usually follow points raised):
[]
>I almost always think each new version of Windows is better than its
>predecessor. The one flagrant counterexample, as far as I'm concerned,
>is version 7 to 8.
>
I vaguely favour the alternating principle (every _second_ one was good)
- though each had _something_ worthwhile to add (and you sometimes have
to consider minor variants to make it work):
>
(I never used 1 and 2. Hardware probably wasn't up to it anyway.)
3. - usable
3.1 (and 3.11) - good for their time
95 - first with the modern GUI; fair (poor at USB)
98 - fixed some of 95, but unfinished in some ways
98SE - good (towards the end, let down by USB, though there was the -
third-party - universal USB driver)
Me ("Millennium edition") - not _much_ liked, though it has its
adherents; arguably first not something running on top of DOS (though
that's partly true of the '9xs)
XP - good, in general; certainly affectionately liked looking back
Vista - good in theory (sort of an early 7), but that's really come to
light with hindsight: at release it wasn't much liked, not least because
user access control was rather vicious
7 - mostly liked, after initial resistance to any new variant
8 - mostly hated, mainly for the "tiles" interface (which was only the
default)
8.1 - fixed some of the worst aspects of 8, but still not very popular
10 - now entering the same phase as 7, i. e. nostalgia beginning. Some -
probably many on the 10 'group - like it a lot; some dislike the
(without jumping through hoops) unblockable updates aspect.
Arguably, 10 is actually several iterations; 10 21H1 is quite a lot
different from the original 10, though the overall is much the same.
11 - ?

That's initially the "consumer" ones: the business area also had NT3.51
(Windows 3.1 UI, roughly, but more robust - but rather stark), then NT4
('9x/XP interface; generally considered better, but needed more powerful
hardware - many companies used 3.51 and 4 in parallel as the 3.51
machines still had a lot of life left in them). The two streams more or
less merged at XP - though there were variants of all versions aimed
more at home (often called Home) and business (often called Pro) from
then on (as well as other versions - sometimes a very minimal version
aimed at the least hardware capable of running the version at all,
sometimes a version aimed at schools, sometimes a top level version
{sometimes called Ultimate}). [I haven't heard any mention of variants
of 11, but I'd be surprised if there aren't.]

There, that should provoke lots of arguments (-: [Though that
wasn't/isn't my intention.]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Veni, Vidi, Video (I came, I saw, I'll watch it again later) - Mik from S+AS
Limited (mik@saslimited.demon.co.uk), 1998

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 by: J. P. Gilliver (John - Wed, 22 Sep 2021 14:43 UTC

On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 at 10:03:06, RabidHussar <rabid@huss.ar> wrote (my
responses usually follow points raised):
>On 2021-09-22 8:59 a.m., J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 at 16:57:21, Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com>
> wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
> []
>
>> I almost always think each new version of Windows is better than
>> its predecessor. The one flagrant counterexample, as far as I'm
>> concerned, is version 7 to 8.
>
>
> I vaguely favour the alternating principle (every _second_ one was
> good) - though each had _something_ worthwhile to add (and you
> sometimes have to consider minor variants to make it work):
>
> (I never used 1 and 2. Hardware probably wasn't up to it anyway.)
> 3. - usable
>
>I liked it but didn't see the point of the software at the time. Much
>of the good stuff was in DOS.

Indeed.

> 3.1 (and 3.11) - good for their time
>
>It allowed you to get onto the Internet so it was definitely good. It

Actually, I used the internet more under DOS (with a variant of the -
ITIW - KA9Q suite) in those days, only firing up W3.1 if I wanted to use
a web page. (I. e., email, FTP, etc. was fine - I think I even used Lynx
sometimes. Was still on dialup.)

>doesn't multitask well for some but I'm a "one application at a time"

I was too, then. (Well, DOS encouraged that!)

>type of guy anyway so I didn't see the issues, even on my very outdated
>hardware at the time.
> 95 - first with the modern GUI; fair (poor at USB)
>
>It was pretty good, especially with the Plus pack. However, the winnuke

I never felt tempted to get the Plus! pack!

>crap people used all the time showcased how vulnerable it was
>security-wise.
> 98 - fixed some of 95, but unfinished in some ways
>I found it awful.

I don't remember enough about it.
>
> 98SE - good (towards the end, let down by USB, though there was the
> - third-party - universal USB driver)
>My go-to OS until Windows 2000 came out.

I stayed with it a long time.

> Me ("Millennium edition") - not _much_ liked, though it has its
> adherents; arguably first not something running on top of DOS
> (though that's partly true of the '9xs)
>
>Garbage in every way. Stability was clearly not the developers' concern
>at this point in time.

Seemed rushed, and not to offer anything much beyond 98SE. And some
things removed IIRR.

> XP - good, in general; certainly affectionately liked looking back
>You forgot 2000 which was stellar in every possible way. XP was an
>improvement on something that was already very excellent.

I did indeed forget 2000. Though I think it was still part of the NT
sequence, rather than the "home" sequence. Though some overlap, I think
of the NT sequence as mainly NTFS-based, with the home sequence based on
FAT (and variants). Came together in XP (which could run on FAT, but by
default didn't).

[I preferred FAT, but Everything - the Voidtools utility - doesn't work
anything like as well on FAT; I think that was the clincher, as I find
Everything very useful.]
>
> Vista - good in theory (sort of an early 7), but that's really come
> to light with hindsight: at release it wasn't much liked, not least
> because user access control was rather vicious
>
>I didn't see the issue, to be honest. I was part of the  beta-testing
>process and found bugs to report on a daily basis. When they froze the
>code and released it to the public, I couldn't believe it: clearly,
>what I was running was nowhere near ready for the public. However, what
>the public DID get wasn't that bad as long as your hardware wasn't
>already outdated. Some features have since disappeared such as the
>animated wallpaper but it wasn't as bad as people say. Most people

I think you're in the minority - perhaps being an "insider". My main
experience with Vista was helping an old chap who'd been given a Vista
laptop, which was as slow as molasses; I don't think it actually didn't
work, but wait times were bad, to the extent that I more than once
thought of paving it and installing XP. Reading what _others_ were
saying, I think the pain of the UIC _was_ great.

>don't realize that 7 is basically just a re-released version of Vista.

I've read it said as "Vista was an early 7" [as I said above] (-:

> 7 - mostly liked, after initial resistance to any new variant
>It was little more than an optimized version of Vista whose performance
>was close enough to XP that people didn't mind upgrading. I think that
>people are probably still holding onto it to this day since none of the
>newer stuff responds as quickly.

Hmm.
>
> 8 - mostly hated, mainly for the "tiles" interface (which was only
> the default)
>It was the same as 7 except for the absence of the Start button (you
>had to go to the lower-left corner instead). I understand what they
>tried to do with the tiles but a Start menu would have been better.

It sort of coincided with the explosion in 'phones; tiles are a lot less
useful if you don't have a touch screen, which most even laptops didn't
(certainly not machines with separate monitors). Actually, I'm not aware
large touch screens are that common, even now.

> 8.1 - fixed some of the worst aspects of 8, but still not very
> popular
>Same as 8 except that the Start button re-appeared. I couldn't see any
>other improvements, personally.

I'll admit I have minimal experience of the 8s, so based on what I've
read others saying. (Brief plays with it in shops - remember shops!? -
it seemed more alien than anything before, and to some extent since.)
>
> 10 - now entering the same phase as 7, i. e. nostalgia beginning.
> Some - probably many on the 10 'group - like it a lot; some dislike
> the (without jumping through hoops) unblockable updates aspect.
> Arguably, 10 is actually several iterations; 10 21H1 is quite a lot
> different from the original 10, though the overall is much the same.
>
>Not bad but some of its issues are hard to ignore, notably how
>Bluetooth ceases to function for no good reason every so often, same as

How much of that is just your (or a few like you) experience, though? (I
haven't much experience of using it.)

>the wireless. The continued confusion between the new Settings panel
>and the old Control Panel drag it down as well.

Agreed, the confusion is bad - with two and a half ways of getting to
things: Settings, and the two ways the Control Panel can be sorted.
(Plus Device Manager as a third way for some things.)

> 11 - ?
>
> That's initially the "consumer" ones: the business area also had
> NT3.51 (Windows 3.1 UI, roughly, but more robust - but rather
> stark), then NT4 ('9x/XP interface; generally considered better, but
> needed more powerful hardware - many companies used 3.51 and 4 in
> parallel as the 3.51 machines still had a lot of life left in them).

Then 2000.

> The two streams more or less merged at XP - though there were
> variants of all versions aimed more at home (often called Home) and
> business (often called Pro) from then on (as well as other versions
> - sometimes a very minimal version aimed at the least hardware
> capable of running the version at all, sometimes a version aimed at
> schools, sometimes a top level version {sometimes called Ultimate}).
> [I haven't heard any mention of variants of 11, but I'd be surprised
> if there aren't.]
>
> There, that should provoke lots of arguments (-: [Though that
> wasn't/isn't my intention.]
>
>I find 11 to be quite good so far, especially since the Bluetooth and
>wireless issues are mostly resolved. There is a lag in getting to the
>context menu but it doesn't ruin the overall experience. It's clearly
>better than 10, in my opinion, even in the beta stages.

Your "clearly" is perhaps different from some. I've not used it at all,
but from what I've seen on here, most of those who've tried it seem to
give the impression that "there's nothing* wrong with it, but I don't
see that much that's a game-changer improvement either". (*other than
teething troubles.) The fact that the installer - or tester - demands
certain things (hardware) that the OS itself doesn't actually need to
run (so far) is a bit of a con, though; whether - since that fact has
leaked out - M$ relax those requirements, or actually implement
something that really needs them (which would be seen by some as being
done in a fit of pique [others will see it as a good security measure -
the TPS module thing - or just a good clear-out of old hardware - the
generations thing]), we'll just have to see.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf


Click here to read the complete article
Re: windows iterations (was: Re: disk to VHD)

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 by: Ken Blake - Wed, 22 Sep 2021 15:16 UTC

On 9/22/2021 5:59 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 at 16:57:21, Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote
> (my responses usually follow points raised):
> []
>>I almost always think each new version of Windows is better than its
>>predecessor. The one flagrant counterexample, as far as I'm concerned,
>>is version 7 to 8.
>>
> I vaguely favour the alternating principle (every _second_ one was good)

Not me.

> - though each had _something_ worthwhile to add (and you sometimes have
> to consider minor variants to make it work):
>>
> (I never used 1 and 2. Hardware probably wasn't up to it anyway.)

I started with 2, as I think I said earlier.

> 3. - usable
> 3.1 (and 3.11) - good for their time

No big deal, but I'll mention it because it was one of my pet peeves
back in those days:

Windows 3.11 was almost identical to 3.1. It just added a few fixes that
had been available separately and a few new drivers.

You probably meant Windows for Workgroups 3.11. That *was* different,
but please don't mix it up with Windows 3.11.

> 95 - first with the modern GUI; fair (poor at USB)
> 98 - fixed some of 95, but unfinished in some ways
> 98SE - good (towards the end, let down by USB, though there was the -
> third-party - universal USB driver)
> Me ("Millennium edition") - not _much_ liked, though it has its
> adherents; arguably first not something running on top of DOS (though
> that's partly true of the '9xs)

I wasn't exactly an adherent. It wasn't much different from 98, but I
thought it was fine.

> XP - good, in general; certainly affectionately liked looking back

> Vista - good in theory (sort of an early 7), but that's really come to
> light with hindsight: at release it wasn't much liked, not least because
> user access control was rather vicious

I never had a problem with it.

> 7 - mostly liked, after initial resistance to any new variant

> 8 - mostly hated, mainly for the "tiles" interface (which was only the
> default)

Hated by me too.

> 8.1 - fixed some of the worst aspects of 8, but still not very popular

Better than 8, but still not great.

> 10 - now entering the same phase as 7, i. e. nostalgia beginning. Some -
> probably many on the 10 'group - like it a lot; some dislike the
> (without jumping through hoops) unblockable updates aspect.
> Arguably, 10 is actually several iterations; 10 21H1 is quite a lot
> different from the original 10, though the overall is much the same.

I like 10 fine. A big improvement over 8.x

> 11 - ?

We'll see.

> That's initially the "consumer" ones: the business area also had NT3.51
> (Windows 3.1 UI, roughly, but more robust - but rather stark), then NT4
> ('9x/XP interface; generally considered better, but needed more powerful
> hardware - many companies used 3.51 and 4 in parallel as the 3.51
> machines still had a lot of life left in them).

I never ran an NT version except for 2000. which I liked.

The two streams more or
> less merged at XP - though there were variants of all versions aimed
> more at home (often called Home) and business (often called Pro) from
> then on (as well as other versions - sometimes a very minimal version
> aimed at the least hardware capable of running the version at all,
> sometimes a version aimed at schools, sometimes a top level version
> {sometimes called Ultimate}). [I haven't heard any mention of variants
> of 11, but I'd be surprised if there aren't.]
>
> There, that should provoke lots of arguments (-: [Though that
> wasn't/isn't my intention.]

No arguments from me. I was mostly just voicing my opinions.

--
Ken

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From: ken@invalidemail.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: disk to VHD
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 08:24:24 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Wed, 22 Sep 2021 15:24 UTC

On 9/22/2021 5:30 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 at 17:05:00, Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote
> (my responses usually follow points raised):
>>On 9/20/2021 8:19 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>>> On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 at 11:59:21, philo <philo@news.novabbs.com> wrote
>>> (my responses usually follow points raised):
> []
>>>>Had to go over there to see he entered his email address : Joe at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>At least he did not spell out "dot."
>>> While we may laugh (or put head in hands), this is a reminder that
>>>not
>>> everyone thinks as we do, or knows what we do. After all, the @ sign
>>> isn't common anywhere else, and I wouldn't be surprised if not a lot of
>>> people knew of it before email was so common; I did know of it, but
>>> rarely encountered it.
>>> (As for "dot", I don't think that was common usage either before
>>>"the
>>> dot com boom" - people said "full stop" [UK] or "period" [US], or
>>> "point" in figures.)
>>
>>
>>
>>America was thus clearly top nation, and History came to a .
>>
>>
> Chiz.

Did you miss the reference? It's the last line of "1066 and all that."

--
Ken

Re: windows iterations (was: Re: disk to VHD)

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Subject: Re: windows iterations (was: Re: disk to VHD)
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From: not@mail.invalid (Mark Lloyd)
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 by: Mark Lloyd - Wed, 22 Sep 2021 16:54 UTC

On 9/22/21 7:59 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

[snip]

> Me ("Millennium edition") - not _much_ liked, though it has its
> adherents; arguably first not something running on top of DOS (though
> that's partly true of the '9xs)

It IS running on top of DOS, they just tried to hide that fact.

ME did have the advantage of including the USB storage driver, but
otherwise wasn't better than 98SE. However not worse unless you count
the more fragile help system.

Also, you left out the best version: 2000

> XP - good, in general; certainly affectionately liked looking back
> Vista - good in theory (sort of an early 7), but that's really come to
> light with hindsight: at release it wasn't much liked, not least because
> user access control was rather vicious

The first with the "assume you're a thief" system misleadingly labeled
"activation".

[snip]

--
94 days until the winter celebration (Saturday, December 25, 2021 12:00
AM for 1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"To fear to face an issue is to believe the worst is true." Ayn Rand

Re: windows iterations (was: Re: disk to VHD)

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Subject: Re: windows iterations (was: Re: disk to VHD)
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 by: Mark Lloyd - Wed, 22 Sep 2021 17:03 UTC

On 9/22/21 11:10 AM, RabidHussar wrote:

[snip]

>>>  Me ("Millennium edition") - not _much_ liked, though it has its
>>>  adherents; arguably first not something running on top of DOS
>>>  (though that's partly true of the '9xs)
>>>
>>> Garbage in every way. Stability was clearly not the developers' concern
>>> at this point in time.
>>
>> Seemed rushed, and not to offer anything much beyond 98SE. And some
>> things removed IIRR.
>
> It truly was a waste of time. It added the basic video editor and system
> restore but otherwise, it was a pointless upgrade. The system restore
> was also completely useless since it ran as poorly in the past as it did
> in the present.

When I was setting up an old system (for testing old browsers) I had a
choice of using 98SE or ME. ME was the obvious choice since it comes
with the USB storage driver, which I was going to need.

[snip]

--
94 days until the winter celebration (Saturday, December 25, 2021 12:00
AM for 1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"To fear to face an issue is to believe the worst is true." Ayn Rand

Re: windows iterations

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From: this@ddress.is.invalid (Frank Slootweg)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.win95.general.discussion
Subject: Re: windows iterations
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 by: Frank Slootweg - Thu, 23 Sep 2021 10:34 UTC

RabidHussar <rabid@huss.ar> wrote:
[...]

Can you please stop posting in multipart/alternative format, i.e.
a text/plain part (good) *and* a text/html part (not good and
redundant)?

Thanks.

I assume it's just an error in the configuration of your News account
in Thunderbird.

Re: windows iterations

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From: nospam@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.win95.general.discussion
Subject: Re: windows iterations
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 by: Paul - Thu, 23 Sep 2021 15:49 UTC

Frank Slootweg wrote:
> RabidHussar <rabid@huss.ar> wrote:
> [...]
>
> Can you please stop posting in multipart/alternative format, i.e.
> a text/plain part (good) *and* a text/html part (not good and
> redundant)?
>
> Thanks.
>
> I assume it's just an error in the configuration of your News account
> in Thunderbird.

Those messages are getting filtered off here, as multipart
don't make it through in at least some of these groups.

*******

http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3CvIG2J.15879%24Im6.7503%40fx09.iad%3E

User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.1.1

From: RabidHussar <rabid@huss.ar>

Message-ID: <vIG2J.15879$Im6.7503@fx09.iad>

NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 14:03:07 UTC

Content-Type: multipart... <=== HTML email setting

*******

Paul

Re: windows iterations

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 by: RabidHussar - Thu, 23 Sep 2021 17:27 UTC

On 2021-09-23 11:49 a.m., Paul wrote:
> Frank Slootweg wrote:
>> RabidHussar <rabid@huss.ar> wrote:
>> [...]
>>
>>   Can you please stop posting in multipart/alternative format, i.e.
>> a text/plain part (good) *and* a text/html part (not good and
>> redundant)?
>>
>>   Thanks.
>>
>>   I assume it's just an error in the configuration of your News account
>> in Thunderbird.
>
> Those messages are getting filtered off here, as multipart
> don't make it through in at least some of these groups.
>
> *******
>
> http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3CvIG2J.15879%24Im6.7503%40fx09.iad%3E
>
>
>   User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0)
> Gecko/20100101
>    Thunderbird/91.1.1
>
>   From: RabidHussar <rabid@huss.ar>
>
>   Message-ID: <vIG2J.15879$Im6.7503@fx09.iad>
>
>   NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 14:03:07 UTC
>
>   Content-Type: multipart...   <=== HTML email setting
>
> *******
>
>    Paul

I'll send in plain text by default. It wasn't an error on my part; I
intentionally sent both versions but I didn't know that it would cause
issues.

--
@RabidHussar
Proud LibreOffice <http://www.libreoffice.org> & Thunderbird
<http://www.thunderbird.net> donor
Pure blood
Supporter of independent journalism
John 15:18

Re: windows iterations

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From: ken@invalidemail.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.win95.general.discussion
Subject: Re: windows iterations
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In-Reply-To: <YN23J.43929$md6.19368@fx36.iad>
 by: Ken Blake - Thu, 23 Sep 2021 18:02 UTC

On 9/23/2021 10:27 AM, RabidHussar wrote:
> On 2021-09-23 11:49 a.m., Paul wrote:
>> Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>> RabidHussar <rabid@huss.ar> wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>   Can you please stop posting in multipart/alternative format, i.e.
>>> a text/plain part (good) *and* a text/html part (not good and
>>> redundant)?
>>>
>>>   Thanks.
>>>
>>>   I assume it's just an error in the configuration of your News account
>>> in Thunderbird.
>>
>> Those messages are getting filtered off here, as multipart
>> don't make it through in at least some of these groups.
>>
>> *******
>>
>> http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3CvIG2J.15879%24Im6.7503%40fx09.iad%3E
>>
>>
>>   User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0)
>> Gecko/20100101
>>    Thunderbird/91.1.1
>>
>>   From: RabidHussar <rabid@huss.ar>
>>
>>   Message-ID: <vIG2J.15879$Im6.7503@fx09.iad>
>>
>>   NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 14:03:07 UTC
>>
>>   Content-Type: multipart...   <=== HTML email setting
>>
>> *******
>>
>>    Paul
>
> I'll send in plain text by default. It wasn't an error on my part; I
> intentionally sent both versions but I didn't know that it would cause
> issues.

It's much better now, thanks.

--
Ken

Re: disk to VHD

<lMwJY+JqMPThFwTV@255soft.uk>

 copy mid

https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=55996&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#55996

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NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 16:36:36 -0500
Message-ID: <lMwJY+JqMPThFwTV@255soft.uk>
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 22:35:38 +0100
From: G6JPG@255soft.uk (J. P. Gilliver (John))
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: disk to VHD
References: <si5gfm$q85$1@dont-email.me> <si5lqv$1c0$1@dont-email.me>
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 by: J. P. Gilliver (John - Thu, 23 Sep 2021 21:35 UTC

On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 at 08:24:24, Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote
(my responses usually follow points raised):
>On 9/22/2021 5:30 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>> On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 at 17:05:00, Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote
>> (my responses usually follow points raised):
>>>On 9/20/2021 8:19 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 at 11:59:21, philo <philo@news.novabbs.com> wrote
>>>> (my responses usually follow points raised):
>> []
>>>>>Had to go over there to see he entered his email address : Joe at
>>>>>gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>At least he did not spell out "dot."
>>>> While we may laugh (or put head in hands), this is a reminder that
>>>>not
>>>> everyone thinks as we do, or knows what we do. After all, the @ sign
>>>> isn't common anywhere else, and I wouldn't be surprised if not a lot of
>>>> people knew of it before email was so common; I did know of it, but
>>>> rarely encountered it.
>>>> (As for "dot", I don't think that was common usage either before
>>>>"the
>>>> dot com boom" - people said "full stop" [UK] or "period" [US], or
>>>> "point" in figures.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>America was thus clearly top nation, and History came to a .
>>>
>>>
>> Chiz.
>
>
>Did you miss the reference? It's the last line of "1066 and all that."
>
>
And Chiz (if I remembered it correctly) was a line from Down wiv skool,
by I think at least one of the same authors (-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

All's well that ends.

Re: disk to VHD

<ir4b32Fskm0U1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=55998&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#55998

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!lilly.ping.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: ken@invalidemail.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: disk to VHD
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 14:49:20 -0700
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <ir4b32Fskm0U1@mid.individual.net>
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In-Reply-To: <lMwJY+JqMPThFwTV@255soft.uk>
 by: Ken Blake - Thu, 23 Sep 2021 21:49 UTC

On 9/23/2021 2:35 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 at 08:24:24, Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote
> (my responses usually follow points raised):
>>On 9/22/2021 5:30 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>>> On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 at 17:05:00, Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote
>>> (my responses usually follow points raised):
>>>>On 9/20/2021 8:19 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 at 11:59:21, philo <philo@news.novabbs.com> wrote
>>>>> (my responses usually follow points raised):
>>> []
>>>>>>Had to go over there to see he entered his email address : Joe at
>>>>>>gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>At least he did not spell out "dot."
>>>>> While we may laugh (or put head in hands), this is a reminder that
>>>>>not
>>>>> everyone thinks as we do, or knows what we do. After all, the @ sign
>>>>> isn't common anywhere else, and I wouldn't be surprised if not a lot of
>>>>> people knew of it before email was so common; I did know of it, but
>>>>> rarely encountered it.
>>>>> (As for "dot", I don't think that was common usage either before
>>>>>"the
>>>>> dot com boom" - people said "full stop" [UK] or "period" [US], or
>>>>> "point" in figures.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>America was thus clearly top nation, and History came to a .
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Chiz.
>>
>>
>>Did you miss the reference? It's the last line of "1066 and all that."
>>
>>
> And Chiz (if I remembered it correctly) was a line from Down wiv skool,
> by I think at least one of the same authors (-:

I had never heard of "Down with Skool" before, but I just googled it.
It's different authors.

I had never seen "chiz" before either, and also had to look that up.

--
Ken

Re: windows iterations

<sikg7a.ack.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=56049&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#56049

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From: this@ddress.is.invalid (Frank Slootweg)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.win95.general.discussion
Subject: Re: windows iterations
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 by: Frank Slootweg - Fri, 24 Sep 2021 10:27 UTC

RabidHussar <rabid@huss.ar> wrote:
> On 2021-09-23 11:49 a.m., Paul wrote:
> > Frank Slootweg wrote:
> >> RabidHussar <rabid@huss.ar> wrote:
> >> [...]
> >>
> >>   Can you please stop posting in multipart/alternative format, i.e.
> >> a text/plain part (good) *and* a text/html part (not good and
> >> redundant)?
> >>
> >>   Thanks.
> >>
> >>   I assume it's just an error in the configuration of your News account
> >> in Thunderbird.
> >
> > Those messages are getting filtered off here, as multipart
> > don't make it through in at least some of these groups.
[...]
> I'll send in plain text by default. It wasn't an error on my part; I
> intentionally sent both versions but I didn't know that it would cause
> issues.

Thanks. For me they didn't cause problems, but as Paul mentioned,
articles which have a text/html part might get dropped by some News
servers and hence will not propagate to other News servers. But in any
case, posting in text/plain *plus* text/html format is wasteful, because
the text/html part does not add any value/functionality.

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