I just used Microsoft's utility disk2vhd to test win10's Hyper-V

I have a Win8.1 installation on a hard drive and when I converted it for
use on Hyper-V I was pleased with the good results. I've used Virtual
Box to run Win98 specifically to run a 16 bit game, but Hyper-V is
pretty nice.

The only thing about disk2vhd is that it can only see Windows drives.

For my next project I'd like to try a real challenge.

I have an old SCO Unix server that I'd like to see if I can run in
Hyper-V. This might be tricky as it is extremely fussy about H/W
changes. It requires a kernel re-compile after even small changes and
afterwards there is a chance of kernel panic.

Rather than keep cloning HD's, It would be a lot easier to experiment
with a spare VHD

Anyone know of good software that can convert a non-Windows HD to VHD?

Try John Doe's utility "Jerk Off Into My Mouth Converter"
Its free and sometimes it works!

philo wrote:
> I just used Microsoft's utility disk2vhd to test win10's Hyper-V
>
> I have a Win8.1 installation on a hard drive and when I converted it for
> use on Hyper-V I was pleased with the good results. I've used Virtual
> Box to run Win98 specifically to run a 16 bit game, but Hyper-V is
> pretty nice.
>
>
> The only thing about disk2vhd is that it can only see Windows drives.
>
> For my next project I'd like to try a real challenge.
>
> I have an old SCO Unix server that I'd like to see if I can run in
> Hyper-V. This might be tricky as it is extremely fussy about H/W
> changes. It requires a kernel re-compile after even small changes and
> afterwards there is a chance of kernel panic.
>
> Rather than keep cloning HD's, It would be a lot easier to experiment
> with a spare VHD
>
>
> Anyone know of good software that can convert a non-Windows HD to VHD?

https://www.virtualbox.org/manual/ch08.html#vboxmanage-convertfromraw

VBoxManage convertfromraw <filename> <outputfile>
[--format VDI|VMDK|VHD]
[--variant Standard,Fixed,Split2G,Stream,ESX]
[--uuid <uuid>]

This is a guess on my part

dd if=/dev/sda of=some.img ...

vboxmanage convertfromraw some.img some.vhd --format VHD --variant Fixed

Note that sometimes the manual lies, and when it promises
VHD format, it will pop an error and tell you it cannot
make a VHD. That's the Oracle way of doing things. Regular
people would just scratch "VHD" from the manual for the command,
if the tool did not support that as output.

The output file should be a few KB larger than the original .img .

The file will require massaging after that, to make it smaller.
But this file should be "functional", enough to test as is.
It's for storage reasons, it could stand some work afterwards
to make it smaller.

*******

The right tool for this is VHDTool.exe version 2.0.0.0 ,
but all vestiges of the original have been destroyed. Now
it was really fast, because it prepended a 1KB header
to the file and the conversion time from "dd" .img format
was like, 2 seconds. I would expect the VBoxmanage to use
the "dumb" conversion method. Requiring potentially
hours of copying. It's not that this tool is "wonderful",
but the developer did note the simplicity of what the
boss asked him to do. It's just clever thinking.

This is the details of Version 2.0.0.0 of the program from MSFT.

---------------------------
Checksum information
---------------------------
Name: VhdTool_msdn.exe
Size: 58368 bytes

SHA1: DB2345FD48CA19DBFA5ED694724374EE814D3730

This is the source.
It relies on stdafx, so I suppose you can't take it
to Linux to compile it. Maybe that'll work in MinGW32.
(It would be a lot of work setting up a three versions
old version of Visual Studio just for this.)
From a requirements perspective, the program really
should not have any #include at all in it, as what
it is doing is that dumb.

VhdTool_msdn.cpp

https://pastebin.com/kdUwvDFG

Oh, well.

*******

With your boundless enthusiasm, you can

1) Add a floppy drive to a VirtualBox machine.
2) Try attaching your dd.img to that.

What I don't know, is if the floppy drive driver,
is fixated on 1440K .img or not. If it will accept
any size .img, then that would be a way of mounting
a raw item you've captured from disk. The idea would
be that you're working read-only with that .img and
not trying to write to it.

That's a long shot.

I have a feeling I'm missing some option in there,
because I might have done this at some point in the
past (passthru of a disk drive). Even using USB
passthru and a USB enclosure for the drive, might
work. Who knows really. Then, you create a dynamic
VHD (an empty one) and copy from the passthru device,
into the VHD. Any 2MB chunks that are all-zeros, won't
require storage space.

Summary: sparse tools area, half finished junk, lots
of sweat from the P2V person doing the work.
I hope you got the picture OK :-/ Grrr.
I have plenty of junk here over the years,
but none of it stands out as a "just works" item.
Every one of them can break, the minute you use it.

Paul

Thanks Paul.
This will give me something to do.
It's not going to matter how efficient it is as it's all of one gig or so.

Btw: The machine has a floppy drive and I found a few good floppies but there is no way to format then as fat.

I get options such as Xenix an HTPS (not HPFS) and a few other file systems I never heard of.

On 9/18/21 4:31 PM, Paul wrote:
> philo wrote:
>> I just used Microsoft's utility disk2vhd   to test win10's Hyper-V
>>
>> I have a Win8.1 installation on a hard drive and when I converted it
>> for use on Hyper-V I was pleased with the good results.  I've used
>> Virtual Box to run Win98 specifically to run a 16 bit game, but
>> Hyper-V is pretty nice.
>>
>>
>> The only thing about disk2vhd is that it can only see Windows drives.
>>
>> For my next project I'd like to try a real challenge.
>>
>> I have an old SCO  Unix server that I'd like to see if I can run in
>> Hyper-V.   This might be tricky as it is extremely fussy about H/W
>> changes. It requires a kernel re-compile after even small changes and
>> afterwards there is a chance of kernel panic.
>>
>> Rather than keep cloning HD's, It would be a lot easier to experiment
>> with a spare VHD
>>
>>
>> Anyone know of good software that can convert a non-Windows HD to VHD?
>
> https://www.virtualbox.org/manual/ch08.html#vboxmanage-convertfromraw
>
> VBoxManage convertfromraw   <filename> <outputfile>
>                             [--format VDI|VMDK|VHD]
>                             [--variant Standard,Fixed,Split2G,Stream,ESX]
>                             [--uuid <uuid>]
>
> This is a guess on my part
>
>    dd if=/dev/sda of=some.img ...
>
>    vboxmanage convertfromraw  some.img some.vhd --format VHD --variant
> Fixed
>
> Note that sometimes the manual lies, and when it promises
> VHD format, it will pop an error and tell you it cannot
> make a VHD. That's the Oracle way of doing things. Regular
> people would just scratch "VHD" from the manual for the command,
> if the tool did not support that as output.
>
> The output file should be a few KB larger than the original .img .
>
> The file will require massaging after that, to make it smaller.
> But this file should be "functional", enough to test as is.
> It's for storage reasons, it could stand some work afterwards
> to make it smaller.
>
> *******
>
> The right tool for this is VHDTool.exe version 2.0.0.0 ,
> but all vestiges of the original have been destroyed. Now
> it was really fast, because it prepended a 1KB header
> to the file and the conversion time from "dd" .img format
> was like, 2 seconds. I would expect the VBoxmanage to use
> the "dumb" conversion method. Requiring potentially
> hours of copying. It's not that this tool is "wonderful",
> but the developer did note the simplicity of what the
> boss asked him to do. It's just clever thinking.
>
> This is the details of Version 2.0.0.0 of the program from MSFT.
>
> ---------------------------
> Checksum information
> ---------------------------
> Name: VhdTool_msdn.exe
> Size: 58368 bytes
>
> SHA1: DB2345FD48CA19DBFA5ED694724374EE814D3730
>
> This is the source.
> It relies on stdafx, so I suppose you can't take it
> to Linux to compile it. Maybe that'll work in MinGW32.
> (It would be a lot of work setting up a three versions
> old version of Visual Studio just for this.)
> From a requirements perspective, the program really
> should not have any #include at all in it, as what
> it is doing is that dumb.
>
> VhdTool_msdn.cpp
>
> https://pastebin.com/kdUwvDFG
>
> Oh, well.
>
> *******
>
> With your boundless enthusiasm, you can
>
> 1) Add a floppy drive to a VirtualBox machine.
> 2) Try attaching your dd.img to that.
>
> What I don't know, is if the floppy drive driver,
> is fixated on 1440K .img or not. If it will accept
> any size .img, then that would be a way of mounting
> a raw item you've captured from disk. The idea would
> be that you're working read-only with that .img and
> not trying to write to it.
>
> That's a long shot.
>
> I have a feeling I'm missing some option in there,
> because I might have done this at some point in the
> past (passthru of a disk drive). Even using USB
> passthru and a USB enclosure for the drive, might
> work. Who knows really. Then, you create a dynamic
> VHD (an empty one) and copy from the passthru device,
> into the VHD. Any 2MB chunks that are all-zeros, won't
> require storage space.
>
> Summary: sparse tools area, half finished junk, lots
>          of sweat from the P2V person doing the work.
>          I hope you got the picture OK :-/ Grrr.
>          I have plenty of junk here over the years,
>          but none of it stands out as a "just works" item.
>          Every one of them can break, the minute you use it.
>
>    Paul

no-go

I did find VHDtool.exe but it's for configuring a VHD No way to
create one from a HD

dd would be my best bet but I can't use it.

The server drive is SCSI and neither of my Linux installations can
install the PCI controller for it so it's not visible from gparted

My Windows machine *can* install the controller & disk management sees
the drive.

Bottom line is I need a Windows utility that can create a VHD from a
non-windows HD

(Does not have to be a VHD...I can convert once the file is made)

On 9/18/2021 6:45 PM, philo wrote:
> On 9/18/21 4:31 PM, Paul wrote:
>> philo wrote:
>>> I just used Microsoft's utility disk2vhd   to test win10's Hyper-V
>>>
>>> I have a Win8.1 installation on a hard drive and when I converted it
>>> for use on Hyper-V I was pleased with the good results.  I've used
>>>

<snip>
>>
>> Summary: sparse tools area, half finished junk, lots
>>           of sweat from the P2V person doing the work.
>>           I hope you got the picture OK :-/ Grrr.
>>           I have plenty of junk here over the years,
>>           but none of it stands out as a "just works" item.
>>           Every one of them can break, the minute you use it.
>>
>>     Paul
>
>
>  no-go
>
> I did find  VHDtool.exe   but it's  for configuring a VHD   No way to
> create one from a HD
>
>
> dd   would be my best bet but I can't use it.
>
> The server drive is SCSI and neither of my Linux installations can
> install the PCI controller for it so it's not visible from gparted
>
>
> My Windows machine *can* install the controller & disk management sees
> the drive.
>
>
> Bottom line is I need a Windows utility that can create a VHD from a
> non-windows HD
>
>
> (Does not have to be a VHD...I can convert once the file is made)
>
>

Well, I suppose I could clone the SCSI to SATA

Then use the SATA drive in my Linux machine and use dd

Since it's only about 1 GB, should not waste too much time

philo wrote:
> On 9/18/2021 6:45 PM, philo wrote:
>> On 9/18/21 4:31 PM, Paul wrote:
>>> philo wrote:
>>>> I just used Microsoft's utility disk2vhd to test win10's Hyper-V
>>>>
>>>> I have a Win8.1 installation on a hard drive and when I converted it
>>>> for use on Hyper-V I was pleased with the good results. I've used
>
>
> <snip>
>>>
>>> Summary: sparse tools area, half finished junk, lots
>>> of sweat from the P2V person doing the work.
>>> I hope you got the picture OK :-/ Grrr.
>>> I have plenty of junk here over the years,
>>> but none of it stands out as a "just works" item.
>>> Every one of them can break, the minute you use it.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>
>>
>> no-go
>>
>> I did find VHDtool.exe but it's for configuring a VHD No way to
>> create one from a HD
>>
>>
>> dd would be my best bet but I can't use it.
>>
>> The server drive is SCSI and neither of my Linux installations can
>> install the PCI controller for it so it's not visible from gparted
>>
>>
>> My Windows machine *can* install the controller & disk management sees
>> the drive.
>>
>>
>> Bottom line is I need a Windows utility that can create a VHD from a
>> non-windows HD
>>
>>
>> (Does not have to be a VHD...I can convert once the file is made)
>>
>>
>
>
>
> Well, I suppose I could clone the SCSI to SATA
>
> Then use the SATA drive in my Linux machine and use dd
>
> Since it's only about 1 GB, should not waste too much time

Would a Puppy distro have a driver for your SCSI ?

https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=puppy

Paul

I don't know.
It looks like the controller is being recognized but simply can't spin up the disk.

If this was not going to be a one time deal, I'd investigate but to clone it to SATA will be pretty easy and won't take long.

I don't want to put too much time into a project that probably won't work anyway.

philo wrote:
> I don't know.
> It looks like the controller is being recognized but simply can't spin
> up the disk.
>
> If this was not going to be a one time deal, I'd investigate but to
> clone it to SATA will be pretty easy and won't take long.
>
> I don't want to put too much time into a project that probably won't
> work anyway.

Even without a terminator, it would probably spin.

Some of those drives, had a bank of switches, and
one of the switches might have been "staggered spin".

One other thing that happened with drives, was
"stiction". And a drive with 50,000 hours on it
and ball bearings for the motor, some of those
drives, you have to rotate them 90 degrees along
their major axis before startup, wait for the spindle
to spin, then rotate them back to normal orientation.
That's only practical for drives in a Sun ShoeBox, but
that's how I used to coax an ancient sun drive to spin.

I hope the reason for the lack of spin, is
not mechanical.

Paul

philo <philo@privacy.net> wrote:
[...]

> dd would be my best bet but I can't use it.
>
> The server drive is SCSI and neither of my Linux installations can
> install the PCI controller for it so it's not visible from gparted
>
>
> My Windows machine *can* install the controller & disk management sees
> the drive.

AFAIK, Paul knows - i.e. has the URL for - a (safe) dd-lookalike for
Windows.

> Bottom line is I need a Windows utility that can create a VHD from a
> non-windows HD
>
>
> (Does not have to be a VHD...I can convert once the file is made)

On 9/19/2021 4:07 AM, Paul wrote:
> philo wrote:
>> I don't know.
>> It looks like the controller is being recognized but simply can't spin
>> up the disk.
>>
>> If this was not going to be a one time deal, I'd investigate but to
>> clone it to SATA will be pretty easy and won't take long.
>>
>> I don't want to put too much time into a project that probably won't
>> work anyway.
>
> Even without a terminator, it would probably spin.
>
> Some of those drives, had a bank of switches, and
> one of the switches might have been "staggered spin".
>
> One other thing that happened with drives, was
> "stiction". And a drive with 50,000 hours on it
> and ball bearings for the motor, some of those
> drives, you have to rotate them 90 degrees along
> their major axis before startup, wait for the spindle
> to spin, then rotate them back to normal orientation.
> That's only practical for drives in a Sun ShoeBox, but
> that's how I used to coax an ancient sun drive to spin.
>
> I hope the reason for the lack of spin, is
> not mechanical.
>
>    Paul

Oh no, the drive works fine in my Windows machine.

I have several backups anyway

On 9/19/2021 5:34 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> philo <philo@privacy.net> wrote:
> [...]
>
>> dd would be my best bet but I can't use it.
>>
>> The server drive is SCSI and neither of my Linux installations can
>> install the PCI controller for it so it's not visible from gparted
>>
>>
>> My Windows machine *can* install the controller & disk management sees
>> the drive.
>
> AFAIK, Paul knows - i.e. has the URL for - a (safe) dd-lookalike for
> Windows.
>
>> Bottom line is I need a Windows utility that can create a VHD from a
>> non-windows HD
>>
>>
>> (Does not have to be a VHD...I can convert once the file is made)

I'll wait and see. right now I'm about to import an XP installation

BTW: When I booted up Win8.1 it found a bunch of updates, many from this
year. I thought they were on the "paid support" only phase.

On 9/18/2021 2:59 PM, philo wrote:
> I just used Microsoft's utility disk2vhd   to test win10's Hyper-V
>
> I have a Win8.1 installation on a hard drive and when I converted it for
> use on Hyper-V I was pleased with the good results.  I've used Virtual
> Box to run Win98 specifically to run a 16 bit game, but Hyper-V is
> pretty nice.
>
>
> The only thing about disk2vhd is that it can only see Windows drives.
>
> For my next project I'd like to try a real challenge.
>
> I have an old SCO  Unix server that I'd like to see if I can run in
> Hyper-V.   This might be tricky as it is extremely fussy about H/W
> changes. It requires a kernel re-compile after even small changes and
> afterwards there is a chance of kernel panic.
>
> Rather than keep cloning HD's, It would be a lot easier to experiment
> with a spare VHD
>
>
> Anyone know of good software that can convert a non-Windows HD to VHD?

I don't think I'm going to bother because I tried to do this with XP and
it crashed in Hyper-V upon loading and using Virtual Box...it just hung.

Win 8.1 was successful as it can reconfigure fairly well on different
H/W but XP has little tolerance.

Since SCO has *zero* tolerance, there is no sense in even trying.

Just as an example of how picky SCO is, the machine has two serial ports
COM1 is for the mouse and COM2 in unused.

If I do as little as turn off COM2 in the BIOS, the machine won't boot.

I think I'm going to limit my experimenting to pre-built virtual
machines, there are many out there

philo <philo@privacy.net> wrote:
[...]

> BTW: When I booted up Win8.1 it found a bunch of updates, many from this
> year. I thought they were on the "paid support" only phase.

No, only 'Mainstream support' has ended (on January 9, 2018). Windows
8.1 still is in 'Extended support' (till January 10, 2023).

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_8.1#End-of-life>

I'm still running 8.1 - no 10 on our machines if I can help it ! :-) -
and still get monthly updates, normally two a month, the 'Security
Monthly Quality Rollup' and the 'Windows Malicious Software Removal
Tool'.

On 9/19/2021 7:29 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> philo <philo@privacy.net> wrote:
> [...]
>
>> BTW: When I booted up Win8.1 it found a bunch of updates, many from this
>> year. I thought they were on the "paid support" only phase.
>
> No, only 'Mainstream support' has ended (on January 9, 2018). Windows
> 8.1 still is in 'Extended support' (till January 10, 2023).
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_8.1#End-of-life>

I know that, but what I don't know is exactly what the difference is
between mainstream support and extended support. Can you or anyone else
here explain it, or point me to a web page that explains it?

--
Ken

Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
> On 9/19/2021 7:29 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > philo <philo@privacy.net> wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> >> BTW: When I booted up Win8.1 it found a bunch of updates, many from this
> >> year. I thought they were on the "paid support" only phase.
> >
> > No, only 'Mainstream support' has ended (on January 9, 2018). Windows
> > 8.1 still is in 'Extended support' (till January 10, 2023).
> >
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_8.1#End-of-life>
>
> I know that, but what I don't know is exactly what the difference is
> between mainstream support and extended support. Can you or anyone else
> here explain it, or point me to a web page that explains it?

Well, a short search gives this hit:

<https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/policies/fixed#mainstream-support>

As most Microsoft documents, it's - IMO - clear as mud. 'Enjoy'!

I searched on "what does microsoft "mainstream support" mean" (without
outer quotes) and this was the first (and only?) Microsoft document, but
there are many other pages from other sources.

FWIW, I interpret 'Mainstream support' as the period when you are
likely to get changes/additions/enhancements/<whatever> (and bug fixes
and security fixes) and 'Extended support' as the period when you only
get bug fixes and security fixes.

philo wrote:
> On 9/18/2021 2:59 PM, philo wrote:
>> I just used Microsoft's utility disk2vhd to test win10's Hyper-V
>>
>> I have a Win8.1 installation on a hard drive and when I converted it
>> for use on Hyper-V I was pleased with the good results. I've used
>> Virtual Box to run Win98 specifically to run a 16 bit game, but
>> Hyper-V is pretty nice.
>>
>>
>> The only thing about disk2vhd is that it can only see Windows drives.
>>
>> For my next project I'd like to try a real challenge.
>>
>> I have an old SCO Unix server that I'd like to see if I can run in
>> Hyper-V. This might be tricky as it is extremely fussy about H/W
>> changes. It requires a kernel re-compile after even small changes and
>> afterwards there is a chance of kernel panic.
>>
>> Rather than keep cloning HD's, It would be a lot easier to experiment
>> with a spare VHD
>>
>>
>> Anyone know of good software that can convert a non-Windows HD to VHD?
>
>
>
> I don't think I'm going to bother because I tried to do this with XP and
> it crashed in Hyper-V upon loading and using Virtual Box...it just hung.
>
> Win 8.1 was successful as it can reconfigure fairly well on different
> H/W but XP has little tolerance.
>
> Since SCO has *zero* tolerance, there is no sense in even trying.
>
> Just as an example of how picky SCO is, the machine has two serial ports
> COM1 is for the mouse and COM2 in unused.
>
> If I do as little as turn off COM2 in the BIOS, the machine won't boot.
>
>
> I think I'm going to limit my experimenting to pre-built virtual
> machines, there are many out there

One article I could find, the user reinstalls SCO into the
VM, so that the hardware detections will be established during
installation. And that's only going to work, for any hardware
families that SCO supports. So if SCO only has SCSI drivers
and no SATA or IDE drivers, then you'll need a virtual SCSI
device in the VM environment, to give it a place to hang its hat.

Virtual machines do have serial port and parallel port emulations,
as well as HID device emulation.

Even if I had the source media to do an install in a VM,
I doubt I'd get this running on the first try.

Paul

I once managed to do an SCO installation but it was bare bones and no way for me to figure out how to get the software on the server I have.

There are a few text-based games I found interesting.

I think more interesting though was that the professor who set up the server had the games well nested and out of sight...
They were nested 12 layers deep.

LOL.

On 9/19/2021 12:38 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>> On 9/19/2021 7:29 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>> philo <philo@privacy.net> wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>> BTW: When I booted up Win8.1 it found a bunch of updates, many from this
>>>> year. I thought they were on the "paid support" only phase.
>>>
>>> No, only 'Mainstream support' has ended (on January 9, 2018). Windows
>>> 8.1 still is in 'Extended support' (till January 10, 2023).
>>>
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_8.1#End-of-life>
>>
>> I know that, but what I don't know is exactly what the difference is
>> between mainstream support and extended support. Can you or anyone else
>> here explain it, or point me to a web page that explains it?
>
> Well, a short search gives this hit:
>
> <https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/policies/fixed#mainstream-support>
>
> As most Microsoft documents, it's - IMO - clear as mud. 'Enjoy'!
>
> I searched on "what does microsoft "mainstream support" mean" (without
> outer quotes) and this was the first (and only?) Microsoft document, but
> there are many other pages from other sources.
>
> FWIW, I interpret 'Mainstream support' as the period when you are
> likely to get changes/additions/enhancements/<whatever> (and bug fixes
> and security fixes) and 'Extended support' as the period when you only
> get bug fixes and security fixes.
>

I have a friend with a limited budget who is still using Win7

His machine does not have the specs for Win10 but that last time I had
it on the bench here, I contemplated an upgrade to Win8

Win7 can be upgraded to Win8 with all apps left in place...but a direct
upgrade to 8.1 will put everything in Windows.old and start fresh....so
I would have had to do two upgrades.

I have a test machine on my bench where I went through the procedure.
BTW: I purposely did some minor sabotage to the Win8.1 installation and
on my 15 year old test machine, all repair options failed...including a
fresh install of Win8.1
The fresh install of Win8 worked though.

I did put the 8.1 installation into a Hypervisor before I destroyed it,
so I can experiment again if I so desire

Too much trouble for too little gain.

I figure since Firefox is still getting updates as well as his virus
checker, he should be OK.

philo wrote:

> I have a friend with a limited budget who is still using Win7
>
> His machine does not have the specs for Win10 but that last time I had
> it on the bench here, I contemplated an upgrade to Win8
>
> Win7 can be upgraded to Win8 with all apps left in place...but a direct
> upgrade to 8.1 will put everything in Windows.old and start fresh....so
> I would have had to do two upgrades.
>
> I have a test machine on my bench where I went through the procedure.
> BTW: I purposely did some minor sabotage to the Win8.1 installation and
> on my 15 year old test machine, all repair options failed...including a
> fresh install of Win8.1
> The fresh install of Win8 worked though.
>
> I did put the 8.1 installation into a Hypervisor before I destroyed it,
> so I can experiment again if I so desire
>
> Too much trouble for too little gain.
>
> I figure since Firefox is still getting updates as well as his virus
> checker, he should be OK.

Win8/Win8.1 is more than a little annoying. That's what I'm using
today, on the typing machine. The previous OS, its time was up
and it had to go. I'm on my "backup OS" now.

I would be careful doing this without permission from owner,
and without explaining all the window-geflippen that goes on in 8/8.1.
When you bang windows against the sides of the screen, the
window resizes as it sees fit. The swipe down the right hand
side with your mouse, is an acquired art too.

If you need install-only keys, to overcome the lack of a "skip"
in Windows 8 or Windows 8.1, here they are. These are from
a gentleman in Germany as far as I know, who likely got this
info from Microsoft at some point in regard to his IT responsibilities.

Windows 8.0 Pro: XKY4K-2NRWR-8F6P2-448RF-CRYQH
Windows 8.0 Core: FB4WR-32NVD-4RW79-XQFWH-CYQG3 "Core" = Home

Windows 8.1 Pro: XHQ8N-C3MCJ-RQXB6-WCHYG-C9WKB
Windows 8.1 Core: 334NH-RXG76-64THK-C7CKG-D3VPT "Core" = Home

After the install is finished, you can then do a key replacement
and install the licensed key.

Paul

Thanks Paul. I sure recall seeing that key with CRY near the end.

Good point though is that I'd be able to install it but then would need a valid and paid for key...so Win8 is out of the question.

Win8.1 is quite usable as long as one's fingers don't slip and invoke those tiles but Win8 is unusable.

I don't know how long it took me to find the shut down button.

This guy would never be able to figure it out.

When he first got his computer, I talked him through his email setup ...and even though when he read back all his settings to me, it did not work.

Had to go over there to see he entered his email address : Joe at gmail.com

At least he did not spell out "dot."

On 2021-09-20 6:54 a.m., philo wrote:
> On 9/19/2021 12:38 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>> Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>>> On 9/19/2021 7:29 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>>> philo <philo@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>>> BTW: When I booted up Win8.1 it found a bunch of updates, many from
>>>>> this
>>>>> year. I thought they were on the "paid support" only phase.
>>>>
>>>>     No, only 'Mainstream support' has ended (on January 9, 2018).
>>>> Windows
>>>> 8.1 still is in 'Extended support' (till January 10, 2023).
>>>>
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_8.1#End-of-life>
>>>
>>> I know that, but what I don't know is exactly what the difference is
>>> between mainstream support and extended support. Can you or anyone else
>>> here explain it, or point me to a web page that explains it?
>>
>>    Well, a short search gives this hit:
>>
>> <https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/policies/fixed#mainstream-support>
>>
>>
>>    As most Microsoft documents, it's - IMO - clear as mud. 'Enjoy'!
>>
>>    I searched on "what does microsoft "mainstream support" mean" (without
>> outer quotes) and this was the first (and only?) Microsoft document, but
>> there are many other pages from other sources.
>>
>>    FWIW, I interpret 'Mainstream support' as the period when you are
>> likely to get changes/additions/enhancements/<whatever> (and bug fixes
>> and security fixes) and 'Extended support' as the period when you only
>> get bug fixes and security fixes.
>>
>
>
> I have a friend with a limited budget who is still using Win7
>
> His machine does not have the specs for Win10 but that last time I had
> it on the bench here, I contemplated an upgrade to Win8
>
> Win7 can be upgraded to Win8 with all apps left in place...but a direct
> upgrade to 8.1 will put everything in Windows.old and start fresh....so
> I would have had to do two upgrades.
>
> I have a test machine on my bench where I went through the procedure.
> BTW: I purposely did some minor sabotage to the Win8.1 installation and
> on my 15 year old test machine, all repair options failed...including a
> fresh install of Win8.1
> The fresh install of Win8 worked though.
>
> I did put the 8.1 installation into a Hypervisor before I destroyed it,
> so I can experiment again if I so desire
>
> Too much trouble for too little gain.
>
> I figure since Firefox is still getting updates as well as his virus
> checker, he should be OK.

Or, you can have the poor guy install Linux and forget about Windows
altogether. That ancient machine is likely to work beautifully with
Linux Mint Cinnamon for the next few years. He won't have to worry about
his hardware being supported because it probably already is, out of the
box, and updates will go on for as long as he intends to hold onto the
machine. Additionally, his lack of a budget is well served since the
majority of software in Linux is free. Keeping Windows on there,
honestly, seems counterproductive for such a user.

--
@RabidHussar

On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 at 11:59:21, philo <philo@news.novabbs.com> wrote
(my responses usually follow points raised):
[]
>When he first got his computer, I talked him through his email setup
>...and even though when he read back all his settings to me, it did not
>work.
>
>Had to go over there to see he entered his email address : Joe at gmail.com
>
>At least he did not spell out "dot."

While we may laugh (or put head in hands), this is a reminder that not
everyone thinks as we do, or knows what we do. After all, the @ sign
isn't common anywhere else, and I wouldn't be surprised if not a lot of
people knew of it before email was so common; I did know of it, but
rarely encountered it.

(As for "dot", I don't think that was common usage either before "the
dot com boom" - people said "full stop" [UK] or "period" [US], or
"point" in figures.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Anything you add for security will slow the computer but it shouldn't be
significant or prolonged. Security software is to protect the computer, not
the primary use of the computer.
- VanguardLH in alt.windows7.general, 2018-1-28

I have been building and repairing machines for over 20 years and have found Linux ideal for organizations who serve people with limited finances.
I've set up old machines which are great for giving the people Internet browsers.

All the maint I have to do is occasuinalky go in and delete the Windows exe malware piled up on the desktop.

As to my buddy...he uses his machine mainly to sell books on eBay and though his scanner would work on Linux...he would still have to learn something different and I don't want to waste my time baby-sitting

philo wrote:
> I have been building and repairing machines for over 20 years and have
> found Linux ideal for organizations who serve people with limited finances.
> I've set up old machines which are great for giving the people Internet
> browsers.
>
> All the maint I have to do is occasuinalky go in and delete the Windows
> exe malware piled up on the desktop.
>
> As to my buddy...he uses his machine mainly to sell books on eBay and
> though his scanner would work on Linux...he would still have to learn
> something different and I don't want to waste my time baby-sitting

Scanners don't always work in Linux.

The scanner support for mine, is obviously not aware of
what it is doing, and it does not use the hardware properly.
It wasn't a problem installing the software to try it,
but the results were not correct. (On my scanner, the first
step is scanning of the calibration strip inside the scanner,
which sets the white and black levels for subsequent scans.
That calibration step gives the scanner consistent results
from one session to the next.)

Paul