On 9/14/21 5:58 PM, Chris wrote:
> Wade Garrett <Wade@cooler.net> wrote:
>> On 9/14/21 1:12 PM, RabidHussar wrote:
>>> On 2021-09-14 12:07 p.m., Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> Wade Garrett wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Will this box be able to run Win 11?
>>>>
>>>> With a 3rd gen i5, no you won't be able to upgrade to Win11, but you
>>>> ought to be able to wipe it and do a fresh install of Win11, which
>>>> will be unsupported.
>>>
>>> A third generation CPU like that would run Windows 11 without issue, but
>>> Microsoft simply chooses not to support it because many of the security
>>> features they plan to introduce won't be possible on such older
>>> hardware. However, running Linux on the same hardware would not only be
>>> fast but would allow for the same kind of security features anyway. I
>>> truly believe that if a person wants to hold onto hardware which works
>>> well and performs admirably for a decade or more, they might as well do
>>> so and Linux will allow it. You _can_ simply hold onto Windows 10 though
>>> and run it even after its support date has been reached.
>>>
>> I like Linux too but I need to keep it a Windows machine.
>>
>> For the last dozen years, I've been all-Apple. I bought the refurb Dell
>> because once in a while, I need to do or access something that can't be
>> done on a Mac-- only via Windows.
>
> You can run windows on (intel) Macs. no need to buy additional hardware.
>
Yeah, I know there's a Windows partition/dual boot option for Intel
Macs- and I considered that. But you read about problems if you do that.

Besides, NewEgg must have bought up a boatload of corporate Latitude
trade-ins a while back and was unloading them for not a whole lot more
than beer money. And what right-minded guy would pass up the opportunity
for a little new portable hardware ;-)

--
Dumbing down of America: 50 years ago, your car's owner's manual showed
how to adjust the valves. Today's manuals warn you not to drink the
contents of the battery

RabidHussar wrote:
> On 2021-09-14 1:11 p.m., Wade Garrett wrote:
>> On 9/14/21 12:07 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> Wade Garrett wrote:
>>>
>>>> Will this box be able to run Win 11?
>>>
>>> With a 3rd gen i5, no you won't be able to upgrade to Win11, but you
>>> ought to be able to wipe it and do a fresh install of Win11, which will
>>> be unsupported.
>>
>> How would I do that?
>
> Download the MediaCreationTool, have it copy the ISO onto a USB stick,
> boot from the USB stick instead of directly into your Windows install,
> delete all partitions and reinstall from a clean slate.
>
> Just for clarification.
One wouldn't 'copy' the MCT created media ISO to a USB and boot the USB.
One would need to use the saved ISO image to create a bootable UEFI USB
drive with the installation files.
Verify the device is configured to boot in UEFI mode.
Then boot from the USB created media in UEFI mode.

Once done, installer's Advanced options to delete partitions and create
the required GPT partitions(System, MSR, Windows, Recovery)
- then install Windows to the Windows partition.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤n

Paul wrote:

> I should really be booting UEFI or whatever. The "clean"
> command removes the MBR table, as well as both GPT tables.
> Other tools and methods, tend to "miss" the backup GPT table, and
> that's how the smell stays there.

:) Yes, you should be booting in UEFI

--
....w¡ñ§±¤n

Wade Garrett <Wade@cooler.net> wrote:
> On 9/14/21 5:58 PM, Chris wrote:
>> Wade Garrett <Wade@cooler.net> wrote:
>>> On 9/14/21 1:12 PM, RabidHussar wrote:
>>>> On 2021-09-14 12:07 p.m., Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>> Wade Garrett wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Will this box be able to run Win 11?
>>>>>
>>>>> With a 3rd gen i5, no you won't be able to upgrade to Win11, but you
>>>>> ought to be able to wipe it and do a fresh install of Win11, which
>>>>> will be unsupported.
>>>>
>>>> A third generation CPU like that would run Windows 11 without issue, but
>>>> Microsoft simply chooses not to support it because many of the security
>>>> features they plan to introduce won't be possible on such older
>>>> hardware. However, running Linux on the same hardware would not only be
>>>> fast but would allow for the same kind of security features anyway. I
>>>> truly believe that if a person wants to hold onto hardware which works
>>>> well and performs admirably for a decade or more, they might as well do
>>>> so and Linux will allow it. You _can_ simply hold onto Windows 10 though
>>>> and run it even after its support date has been reached.
>>>>
>>> I like Linux too but I need to keep it a Windows machine.
>>>
>>> For the last dozen years, I've been all-Apple. I bought the refurb Dell
>>> because once in a while, I need to do or access something that can't be
>>> done on a Mac-- only via Windows.
>>
>> You can run windows on (intel) Macs. no need to buy additional hardware.
>>
> Yeah, I know there's a Windows partition/dual boot option for Intel
> Macs- and I considered that. But you read about problems if you do that.

There are fewer issues than Windows on PC hardware. There's also virtual
machines which work very well.

> Besides, NewEgg must have bought up a boatload of corporate Latitude
> trade-ins a while back and was unloading them for not a whole lot more
> than beer money. And what right-minded guy would pass up the opportunity
> for a little new portable hardware ;-)

Cheap PC laptops just feel, well, so cheap and horrible compared to Mac
hardware.

knuttle wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> With a 3rd gen i5, no you won't be able to upgrade to Win11, but you
>> ought to be able to wipe it and do a fresh install of Win11, which
>> will be unsupported.
>
> If Windows 11 will not upgrade a windows 10 computer without wiping the
> disk and all the BS, then my computers will continue to run Windows 10.

If you have an 8th gen CPU or later (some 7th gen apply too) it will
allow an upgrade without wipe.

T wrote:

> M$'s W11 hardware check says "Coming soon".  On my
> qemu-kvm virtual W11, I am using a i440x processor

Depends on how much lying your hypervisor does to the O/S I guess

> and it does its upgrades fine.

Do you mean [one off] upgrade, or [regular] updates?

On 9/15/21 3:05 AM, Chris wrote:
> Wade Garrett <Wade@cooler.net> wrote:
>> On 9/14/21 5:58 PM, Chris wrote:
>>> Wade Garrett <Wade@cooler.net> wrote:
>>>> On 9/14/21 1:12 PM, RabidHussar wrote:
>>>>> On 2021-09-14 12:07 p.m., Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>> Wade Garrett wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Will this box be able to run Win 11?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With a 3rd gen i5, no you won't be able to upgrade to Win11, but you
>>>>>> ought to be able to wipe it and do a fresh install of Win11, which
>>>>>> will be unsupported.
>>>>>
>>>>> A third generation CPU like that would run Windows 11 without issue, but
>>>>> Microsoft simply chooses not to support it because many of the security
>>>>> features they plan to introduce won't be possible on such older
>>>>> hardware. However, running Linux on the same hardware would not only be
>>>>> fast but would allow for the same kind of security features anyway. I
>>>>> truly believe that if a person wants to hold onto hardware which works
>>>>> well and performs admirably for a decade or more, they might as well do
>>>>> so and Linux will allow it. You _can_ simply hold onto Windows 10 though
>>>>> and run it even after its support date has been reached.
>>>>>
>>>> I like Linux too but I need to keep it a Windows machine.
>>>>
>>>> For the last dozen years, I've been all-Apple. I bought the refurb Dell
>>>> because once in a while, I need to do or access something that can't be
>>>> done on a Mac-- only via Windows.
>>>
>>> You can run windows on (intel) Macs. no need to buy additional hardware.
>>>
>> Yeah, I know there's a Windows partition/dual boot option for Intel
>> Macs- and I considered that. But you read about problems if you do that.
>
> There are fewer issues than Windows on PC hardware. There's also virtual
> machines which work very well.
>
>> Besides, NewEgg must have bought up a boatload of corporate Latitude
>> trade-ins a while back and was unloading them for not a whole lot more
>> than beer money. And what right-minded guy would pass up the opportunity
>> for a little new portable hardware ;-)
>
> Cheap PC laptops just feel, well, so cheap and horrible compared to Mac
> hardware.

Nothing "cheap" about a Latitude-- Dell's workhouse corporate laptop.

All metal, solidly built, loaded/feature-rich, big battery, adaptable--
e.g., the DVD burner unit is removable so you can install some other
piece of hardware in that space.

Mine is many years past warranty yet is still supported with monthly
updates from Dell.

I only paid a little for it-- but it sure ain't cheap ;-)

On 2021-09-14 11:25 p.m., ...w¡ñ§±¤n wrote:
> RabidHussar wrote:
>> On 2021-09-14 1:11 p.m., Wade Garrett wrote:
>>> On 9/14/21 12:07 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> Wade Garrett wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Will this box be able to run Win 11?
>>>>
>>>> With a 3rd gen i5, no you won't be able to upgrade to Win11, but you
>>>> ought to be able to wipe it and do a fresh install of Win11, which
>>>> will be unsupported.
>>>
>>> How would I do that?
>>
>> Download the MediaCreationTool, have it copy the ISO onto a USB stick,
>> boot from the USB stick instead of directly into your Windows install,
>> delete all partitions and reinstall from a clean slate.
>>
>> Just for clarification.
> One wouldn't 'copy' the MCT created media ISO to a USB and boot the USB.

Does it really matter if the word used is not the most accurate one? The
point is that the ISO is still copied from the hard disk to the USB device.

> One would need to use the saved ISO image to create a bootable UEFI USB
> drive with the installation files.
> Verify the device is configured to boot in UEFI mode.
> Then boot from the USB created media in UEFI mode.

Computers nowadays and at least since 2012 are all configured to use
UEFI by default. The MediaCreationTool also makes it bootable in that
mode without user intervention. Right now, you're just making things
more complicated than they need to be.

> Once done,  installer's Advanced options to delete partitions and create
> the required GPT partitions(System, MSR, Windows, Recovery)
> - then install Windows to the Windows partition.

I'm sure that he'll figure it out.

--
@RabidHussar

On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 at 15:24:18, knuttle <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net>
wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
>On 9/14/2021 12:07 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Wade Garrett wrote:
>>
>>> Will this box be able to run Win 11?
>> With a 3rd gen i5, no you won't be able to upgrade to Win11, but you
>>ought to be able to wipe it and do a fresh install of Win11, which
>>will be unsupported.
>If Windows 11 will not upgrade a windows 10 computer without wiping the
>disk and all the BS, then my computers will continue to run Windows 10.
>
>Gone are the days that upgrades were limited to specific hardware. If
>MS will not load in the older computers they will be cutting their own
>throats, as there are a double digit percentages of old computers and
>many people will not upgrade until they get rid of their old computer
>when it dies years in the future

So MS aren't cutting their throats. The majority of the Windows licences
they sell are those built into new computers; the self-build and upgrade
markets are tiny. (_Some_ corporate upgrades, but that tends to be
limited to recent-ish hardware, under quite careful control.) What money
there is to be made from selling such licences would soon be eaten up by
the cost of providing old-kit support, so they're quite canny about what
they _will_ support.

We may not like it, but we don't matter.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

.... "Peter and out." ... "Kevin and out." (Link episode)

On 2021-09-15 7:42 a.m., Wade Garrett wrote:
> On 9/15/21 3:05 AM, Chris wrote:
>> Wade Garrett <Wade@cooler.net> wrote:
>>> On 9/14/21 5:58 PM, Chris wrote:
>>>> Wade Garrett <Wade@cooler.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 9/14/21 1:12 PM, RabidHussar wrote:
>>>>>> On 2021-09-14 12:07 p.m., Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>>> Wade Garrett wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Will this box be able to run Win 11?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With a 3rd gen i5, no you won't be able to upgrade to Win11, but you
>>>>>>> ought to be able to wipe it and do a fresh install of Win11, which
>>>>>>> will be unsupported.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A third generation CPU like that would run Windows 11 without
>>>>>> issue, but
>>>>>> Microsoft simply chooses not to support it because many of the
>>>>>> security
>>>>>> features they plan to introduce won't be possible on such older
>>>>>> hardware. However, running Linux on the same hardware would not
>>>>>> only be
>>>>>> fast but would allow for the same kind of security features anyway. I
>>>>>> truly believe that if a person wants to hold onto hardware which
>>>>>> works
>>>>>> well and performs admirably for a decade or more, they might as
>>>>>> well do
>>>>>> so and Linux will allow it. You _can_ simply hold onto Windows 10
>>>>>> though
>>>>>> and run it even after its support date has been reached.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I like Linux too but I need to keep it a Windows machine.
>>>>>
>>>>> For the last dozen years, I've been all-Apple. I bought the refurb
>>>>> Dell
>>>>> because once in a while, I need to do or access something that
>>>>> can't be
>>>>> done on a Mac-- only via Windows.
>>>>
>>>> You can run windows on (intel) Macs. no need to buy additional
>>>> hardware.
>>>>
>>> Yeah, I know there's a Windows partition/dual boot option for Intel
>>> Macs- and I considered that. But you read about problems if you do that.
>>
>> There are fewer issues than Windows on PC hardware. There's also virtual
>> machines which work very well.
>>
>>> Besides, NewEgg must have bought up a boatload of corporate Latitude
>>> trade-ins a while back and was unloading them for not a whole lot more
>>> than beer money. And what right-minded guy would pass up the opportunity
>>> for a little new portable hardware ;-)
>>
>> Cheap PC laptops just feel, well, so cheap and horrible compared to Mac
>> hardware.
>
> Nothing "cheap" about a Latitude-- Dell's workhouse corporate laptop.
>
> All metal, solidly built, loaded/feature-rich, big battery, adaptable--
> e.g., the DVD burner unit is removable so you can install some other
> piece of hardware in that space.
>
> Mine is many years past warranty yet is still supported with monthly
> updates from Dell.
>
> I only paid a little for it-- but it sure ain't cheap ;-)

No matter what the subject, Chris will say that Apple is better,
flawless, ethical and so on. You can't expect him to be objective since
he's an Apple zealot and his only purpose here is to make himself feel
better about being gouged by claiming that all non-Apple products are
inferior.

If you have an example of Chris being objective, I'd like to see it.

--
@RabidHussar

On 2021-09-14 6:00 p.m., Chris wrote:
> RabidHussar <rabid@huss.ar> wrote:
>> On 2021-09-14 3:05 p.m., Wade Garrett wrote:
>>> On 9/14/21 1:12 PM, RabidHussar wrote:
>>>> On 2021-09-14 12:07 p.m., Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>> Wade Garrett wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Will this box be able to run Win 11?
>>>>>
>>>>> With a 3rd gen i5, no you won't be able to upgrade to Win11, but you
>>>>> ought to be able to wipe it and do a fresh install of Win11, which
>>>>> will be unsupported.
>>>>
>>>> A third generation CPU like that would run Windows 11 without issue,
>>>> but Microsoft simply chooses not to support it because many of the
>>>> security features they plan to introduce won't be possible on such
>>>> older hardware. However, running Linux on the same hardware would not
>>>> only be fast but would allow for the same kind of security features
>>>> anyway. I truly believe that if a person wants to hold onto hardware
>>>> which works well and performs admirably for a decade or more, they
>>>> might as well do so and Linux will allow it. You _can_ simply hold
>>>> onto Windows 10 though and run it even after its support date has been
>>>> reached.
>>>>
>>> I like Linux too but I need to keep it a Windows machine.
>>>
>>> For the last dozen years, I've been all-Apple. I bought the refurb Dell
>>> because once in a while, I need to do or access something that can't be
>>> done on a Mac-- only via Windows.
>>
>> I'm using Windows on both of my computers too but mostly because I need
>> to make sure that Teams works right (on the older laptop) and because I
>> like to play games like FIFA (on the new laptop). If ever I stop playing
>> games entirely, I will do absolutely everything that I need to do in
>> Linux.
>
> Games are pretty much the only reason I have a windows machine at home.

You could have just bought a console, a non-Microsoft one at that.

--
@RabidHussar

knuttle wrote:

> If MS will not load in the older computers they will be cutting their own
> throats,

Agreed, that it's a strange plan.

I think Windows 11 is "Plan B", and the Microsoft
"Plan A" has yet to be released.

Paul

On 2021-09-15 8:46 a.m., Paul wrote:
> knuttle wrote:
>
>> If MS will not load in the older computers they will be cutting their
>> own throats,
>
> Agreed, that it's a strange plan.
>
> I think Windows 11 is "Plan B", and the Microsoft
> "Plan A" has yet to be released.

I disagree. Windows 11 is plan A and they will push for people to
upgrade their hardware simply because that's what Microsoft has always
done with each new release of Windows. It's their role and the reason
why manufacturers don't mind bundling their product with their computers
rather than create their own operating system like they did in the 1980s
or push Linux. Windows sells hardware and therefore the manufacturers
bundle Windows.

Additionally, like I posted in an earlier message, many of the security
features Microsoft introduced or plan to introduce make use of the
hardware that is now default on new computers. The encryption allowed by
TPM or TPP make sure that in the event of hardware theft, identity theft
is not guaranteed. Similarly, they will likely introduce some sort of
strong encryption for all communications across the board. Whether we
like it or not, the old way of doing things is not compatible with a
security and privacy-minded society.

--
@RabidHussar

RabidHussar wrote:

> Windows 11 is plan A and they will push for people to
> upgrade their hardware simply because that's what Microsoft has always
> done with each new release of Windows.

Not very successfully in recent years, many Vista-class machine do a
good enough job of running Win10, and quite a few have had a several
years grace by an SSD or RAM upgrade.

On 2021-09-15 9:50 a.m., Andy Burns wrote:
> RabidHussar wrote:
>
>> Windows 11 is plan A and they will push for people to upgrade their
>> hardware simply because that's what Microsoft has always done with
>> each new release of Windows.
>
> Not very successfully in recent years, many Vista-class machine do a
> good enough job of running Win10, and quite a few have had a several
> years grace by an SSD or RAM upgrade.

Absolutely, but much of why Windows is no longer selling machines is
because there isn't much that a corporation can add to an operating
system which would require so many resources yet be beneficial to a
user. In the 90s, it wasn't so difficult because just adding pre-emptive
multitasking was enough to get people to upgrade their computers. Vista
_tried_ to include resource-heavy features such as animated wallpapers,
transparent windows and so on but most people didn't see what the point
of any of these things were and remained on XP for the most part. If
you're a programmer, your company will tell you that it wants you to
come up with something fantastic which will _demand_ 4GB of RAM but the
reality is that even resource-intensive games can manage quite well with
8GB of RAM and the majority will run with 4GB. As a result, older and
older computers stick around for longer and longer.

Even if they did slow down the operating system significantly and make
it require 16GB or so, Linux is around and is able to run on much less
so a good chunk of the people who are disgusted by the hardware demands
will look in that direction.

I remember getting an IBM PS/1 286 in 1991 which, by the end of that
year, was already obsolete. Those days are over. Nowadays, spending
$2,500 on a computer will get you hardware which will AT LEAST last a
good five years.

--
@RabidHussar

RabidHussar <rabid@huss.ar> wrote:
> On 2021-09-14 6:00 p.m., Chris wrote:
>> RabidHussar <rabid@huss.ar> wrote:
>>> On 2021-09-14 3:05 p.m., Wade Garrett wrote:
>>>> On 9/14/21 1:12 PM, RabidHussar wrote:
>>>>> On 2021-09-14 12:07 p.m., Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>> Wade Garrett wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Will this box be able to run Win 11?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With a 3rd gen i5, no you won't be able to upgrade to Win11, but you
>>>>>> ought to be able to wipe it and do a fresh install of Win11, which
>>>>>> will be unsupported.
>>>>>
>>>>> A third generation CPU like that would run Windows 11 without issue,
>>>>> but Microsoft simply chooses not to support it because many of the
>>>>> security features they plan to introduce won't be possible on such
>>>>> older hardware. However, running Linux on the same hardware would not
>>>>> only be fast but would allow for the same kind of security features
>>>>> anyway. I truly believe that if a person wants to hold onto hardware
>>>>> which works well and performs admirably for a decade or more, they
>>>>> might as well do so and Linux will allow it. You _can_ simply hold
>>>>> onto Windows 10 though and run it even after its support date has been
>>>>> reached.
>>>>>
>>>> I like Linux too but I need to keep it a Windows machine.
>>>>
>>>> For the last dozen years, I've been all-Apple. I bought the refurb Dell
>>>> because once in a while, I need to do or access something that can't be
>>>> done on a Mac-- only via Windows.
>>>
>>> I'm using Windows on both of my computers too but mostly because I need
>>> to make sure that Teams works right (on the older laptop) and because I
>>> like to play games like FIFA (on the new laptop). If ever I stop playing
>>> games entirely, I will do absolutely everything that I need to do in
>>> Linux.
>>
>> Games are pretty much the only reason I have a windows machine at home.
>
> You could have just bought a console, a non-Microsoft one at that.

I prefer to have the best gaming experience. High-end games work best on
PC.

RabidHussar <rabid@huss.ar> wrote:
> On 2021-09-15 7:42 a.m., Wade Garrett wrote:
>> On 9/15/21 3:05 AM, Chris wrote:
>>> Wade Garrett <Wade@cooler.net> wrote:
>>>> On 9/14/21 5:58 PM, Chris wrote:
>>>>> Wade Garrett <Wade@cooler.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/14/21 1:12 PM, RabidHussar wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2021-09-14 12:07 p.m., Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>>>> Wade Garrett wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Will this box be able to run Win 11?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> With a 3rd gen i5, no you won't be able to upgrade to Win11, but you
>>>>>>>> ought to be able to wipe it and do a fresh install of Win11, which
>>>>>>>> will be unsupported.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A third generation CPU like that would run Windows 11 without
>>>>>>> issue, but
>>>>>>> Microsoft simply chooses not to support it because many of the
>>>>>>> security
>>>>>>> features they plan to introduce won't be possible on such older
>>>>>>> hardware. However, running Linux on the same hardware would not
>>>>>>> only be
>>>>>>> fast but would allow for the same kind of security features anyway. I
>>>>>>> truly believe that if a person wants to hold onto hardware which
>>>>>>> works
>>>>>>> well and performs admirably for a decade or more, they might as
>>>>>>> well do
>>>>>>> so and Linux will allow it. You _can_ simply hold onto Windows 10
>>>>>>> though
>>>>>>> and run it even after its support date has been reached.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I like Linux too but I need to keep it a Windows machine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For the last dozen years, I've been all-Apple. I bought the refurb
>>>>>> Dell
>>>>>> because once in a while, I need to do or access something that
>>>>>> can't be
>>>>>> done on a Mac-- only via Windows.
>>>>>
>>>>> You can run windows on (intel) Macs. no need to buy additional
>>>>> hardware.
>>>>>
>>>> Yeah, I know there's a Windows partition/dual boot option for Intel
>>>> Macs- and I considered that. But you read about problems if you do that.
>>>
>>> There are fewer issues than Windows on PC hardware. There's also virtual
>>> machines which work very well.
>>>
>>>> Besides, NewEgg must have bought up a boatload of corporate Latitude
>>>> trade-ins a while back and was unloading them for not a whole lot more
>>>> than beer money. And what right-minded guy would pass up the opportunity
>>>> for a little new portable hardware ;-)
>>>
>>> Cheap PC laptops just feel, well, so cheap and horrible compared to Mac
>>> hardware.
>>
>> Nothing "cheap" about a Latitude-- Dell's workhouse corporate laptop.
>>
>> All metal, solidly built, loaded/feature-rich, big battery, adaptable--
>> e.g., the DVD burner unit is removable so you can install some other
>> piece of hardware in that space.
>>
>> Mine is many years past warranty yet is still supported with monthly
>> updates from Dell.
>>
>> I only paid a little for it-- but it sure ain't cheap ;-)
>
> No matter what the subject, Chris will say that Apple is better,
> flawless, ethical and so on. You can't expect him to be objective since
> he's an Apple zealot and his only purpose here is to make himself feel
> better about being gouged by claiming that all non-Apple products are
> inferior.
>
> If you have an example of Chris being objective, I'd like to see it.

I don't think you would. It would then highlight your inability to
differentiate between fact and opinion.

On 2021-09-15 5:48 p.m., Chris wrote:
> RabidHussar <rabid@huss.ar> wrote:
>> On 2021-09-14 6:00 p.m., Chris wrote:
>>> RabidHussar <rabid@huss.ar> wrote:
>>>> On 2021-09-14 3:05 p.m., Wade Garrett wrote:
>>>>> On 9/14/21 1:12 PM, RabidHussar wrote:
>>>>>> On 2021-09-14 12:07 p.m., Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>>> Wade Garrett wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Will this box be able to run Win 11?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With a 3rd gen i5, no you won't be able to upgrade to Win11, but you
>>>>>>> ought to be able to wipe it and do a fresh install of Win11, which
>>>>>>> will be unsupported.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A third generation CPU like that would run Windows 11 without issue,
>>>>>> but Microsoft simply chooses not to support it because many of the
>>>>>> security features they plan to introduce won't be possible on such
>>>>>> older hardware. However, running Linux on the same hardware would not
>>>>>> only be fast but would allow for the same kind of security features
>>>>>> anyway. I truly believe that if a person wants to hold onto hardware
>>>>>> which works well and performs admirably for a decade or more, they
>>>>>> might as well do so and Linux will allow it. You _can_ simply hold
>>>>>> onto Windows 10 though and run it even after its support date has been
>>>>>> reached.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I like Linux too but I need to keep it a Windows machine.
>>>>>
>>>>> For the last dozen years, I've been all-Apple. I bought the refurb Dell
>>>>> because once in a while, I need to do or access something that can't be
>>>>> done on a Mac-- only via Windows.
>>>>
>>>> I'm using Windows on both of my computers too but mostly because I need
>>>> to make sure that Teams works right (on the older laptop) and because I
>>>> like to play games like FIFA (on the new laptop). If ever I stop playing
>>>> games entirely, I will do absolutely everything that I need to do in
>>>> Linux.
>>>
>>> Games are pretty much the only reason I have a windows machine at home.
>>
>> You could have just bought a console, a non-Microsoft one at that.
>
> I prefer to have the best gaming experience. High-end games work best on
> PC.

I totally understand that. In my case, a gaming laptop allows me to
relax wherever I feel like doing so and I can get games at the best
price because there are a variety of stores selling the software rather
than just the one.

--
@RabidHussar

On 9/15/21 2:17 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
> T wrote:
>
>> M$'s W11 hardware check says "Coming soon".  On my
>> qemu-kvm virtual W11, I am using a i440x processor
>
> Depends on how much lying your hypervisor does to the O/S I guess

Chuckle, When I first started with virtual machines,
I had the hardest time wrapping my mind around that
EVERYTHING was fake: processors, memory, yaya, yada, yada. I kept
thinking they were shared.

>
>> and it does its upgrades fine.
>
> Do you mean [one off] upgrade, or [regular] updates?

Both. Won't let me switch back and forth from
developer's releases though

On 9/14/21 1:59 PM, Paul wrote:
> While your Windows 10 VM is booted in this "i440x" environment, try
>
>    Start : Run : msinfo32
Both KVM-W7 and KVM-W1 give the same:

<Data>
<Item><![CDATA[System Model]]></Item>
<Value><![CDATA[Standard PC (i440FX + PIIX, 1996)]]></Value>
</Data>

<Data>
<Item><![CDATA[System Type]]></Item>
<Value><![CDATA[x64-based PC]]></Value>
</Data>

<Data>
<Item><![CDATA[Processor]]></Item>
<Value><![CDATA[Intel Core i7 9xx (Nehalem Class Core i7), 3312 Mhz, 1
Core(s), 1 Logical Processor(s)]]></Value>
</Data>

<Data>
<Item><![CDATA[Processor]]></Item>
<Value><![CDATA[Intel Core i7 9xx (Nehalem Class Core i7), 3312 Mhz, 1
Core(s), 1 Logical Processor(s)]]></Value>
</Data>

<Data>
<Item><![CDATA[BIOS Version/Date]]></Item>
<Value><![CDATA[SeaBIOS 1.14.0-4.fc34, 4/1/2014]]></Value>
</Data>