Surprise. Got a 32 bit Win10 machine in today for repair. MOBO was bad
but I had a similar one.

Dual core 3ghz cpu with 3 gigs fo ram

After it finally reconfigured to the new h/w I got a surprise in that it
actually is usable.

It's from a bookstore and only needed to access the on-line data base.

philo wrote:
> Surprise. Got a 32 bit Win10 machine in today for repair. MOBO was bad
> but I had a similar one.
>
> Dual core 3ghz cpu with 3 gigs fo ram
>
> After it finally reconfigured to the new h/w I got a surprise in that it
> actually is usable.
>
> It's from a bookstore and only needed to access the on-line data base.

Did you

slmgr /dlv

and verify...

Partial Product Key: AB123
License Status: Licensed

That's what my Win8.1 shows right now.

You want the bookstore to keep its paid license.
As a repairman, you leave things in the same state
as on arrival :-) If a dog comes to the vet with
four legs, it leaves with four legs :-)

Keeping the license, is the hardest part of a motherboard swap.

If the motherboard really was similar, as in exactly the same,
Microsoft would still make you jump through a hoop. And that's
why this step is the hardest part.

Paul

On 9/5/21 9:22 PM, Paul wrote:
> philo wrote:
>> Surprise. Got a 32 bit Win10 machine in today for repair. MOBO was bad
>> but I had a similar one.
>>
>> Dual core 3ghz cpu with 3 gigs fo ram
>>
>> After it finally reconfigured to the new h/w I got a surprise in that
>> it actually  is usable.
>>
>> It's from a bookstore and only needed to access the on-line data base.
>
> Did you
>
>    slmgr /dlv
>
> and verify...
>
>    Partial Product Key: AB123
>    License Status: Licensed
>
> That's what my Win8.1 shows right now.
>
> You want the bookstore to keep its paid license.
> As a repairman, you leave things in the same state
> as on arrival :-) If a dog comes to the vet with
> four legs, it leaves with four legs :-)
>
> Keeping the license, is the hardest part of a motherboard swap.
>
> If the motherboard really was similar, as in exactly the same,
> Microsoft would still make you jump through a hoop. And that's
> why this step is the hardest part.
>
>    Paul

In this case the machine was not activated when I did the swap. I just
assigned a new key to get him up and running ASAP

I always keep a few spares on hand

On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 at 19:12:49, philo <philo@privacy.net> wrote (my
responses usually follow points raised):
>Surprise. Got a 32 bit Win10 machine in today for repair. MOBO was bad
>but I had a similar one.
>
>Dual core 3ghz cpu with 3 gigs fo ram
>
>After it finally reconfigured to the new h/w I got a surprise in that
>it actually is usable.
>
>It's from a bookstore and only needed to access the on-line data base.

Are you surprised it's usable because you changed the motherboard, or
because it's 32-bit?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The squeamish will squeam a lot.
(Barry Norman on the film "300", in Radio Times 30 March-5 April 2013.)

On 9/6/2021 9:06 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 at 19:12:49, philo <philo@privacy.net> wrote (my
> responses usually follow points raised):
>> Surprise. Got a 32 bit Win10 machine in today for repair. MOBO was bad
>> but I had a similar one.
>>
>> Dual core 3ghz cpu with 3 gigs fo ram
>>
>> After it finally reconfigured to the new h/w I got a surprise in that
>> it actually  is usable.
>>
>> It's from a bookstore and only needed to access the on-line data base.
>
> Are you surprised it's usable because you changed the motherboard, or
> because it's 32-bit?

Because it's 32bit it's limited to just over 3gigs of RAM
(3 gigs is installed)

Win10 64 bit barely runs with 4 gigs of ram, I usually have thought of 8
gigs as being minimum.

As far as new mobo, no surprise. Win10 usually works on new h/w

I think only once have I seen it not reconfigure.

This particular transplant took at least three of four reboots so it was
a bit stubborn.

On 9/6/21 7:23 PM, philo wrote:
> Win10 64 bit barely runs with 4 gigs of ram, I usually have thought of 8
> gigs as being minimum.

32 bit does not have the overhead of a second 64 OS
on top of it. So it takes less RAM.

I have a few customers with 32 bit Windows 7 still,
It is a pain in the ass. Wish they were on 64 bit.

I have an old dual core machine in my workshop that won't go above 4 gigs of ram.

I think I'm going to load win10 32 bit on an SSD and run an experiment to see how it performs.

On 9/7/21 2:28 AM, philo wrote:
> I have an old dual core machine in my workshop that won't go above 4
> gigs of ram.
>
> I think I'm going to load win10 32 bit on an SSD and run an experiment
> to see how it performs.

Hi Philo,

From what I have seen, 32 bit is a tiny tad faster than
64 bit on Windows. On Linux, 64 bit blows the lid off
of 32 bit.

My big hassle is when software expect 64 bit or they mix
64 bit and 32 bit together. Use to be everything was
all 32 bit, but now some folks are dropping 32 bit
in favor of 64 bit.

One of the Raku (Perl6) developers even had to spin
a special 32 bit Raku for me.

Quickbooks is 32 bit and they have NO INTENTION of
upgrading. And it will not interface with 64 bit
Thunderbird, but will with 32 bit Thunderbird. I
fix that one a lot.

Such is life in the fast lane.

-T

On 2021-09-05 17:12, philo wrote:
> Surprise. Got a 32 bit Win10 machine in today for repair. MOBO was bad
> but I had a similar one.
>
> Dual core 3ghz cpu with 3 gigs fo ram
>
> After it finally reconfigured to the new h/w I got a surprise in that it
> actually  is usable.
>
> It's from a bookstore and only needed to access the on-line data base.

You don't need BLOATWARE to make a computer work, and EXCESSIVE HARDWARE
REQUIREMENTS *JUST* to *RUN* a BLOATY BASTARD OS. 20 years ago
computers generally had a user experience perormance SIMILAR to what you
get on a "modern" machine. The thing is, they did not have WIN-10-NIC
bloating it all up with *BLOATY* *CRAP* *WARE* written with '.Not',
C-pound, and UWP. And they looked nicer too, i.e. Windows '98 and 2k
and XP with the 3D Skeuomorphic desktop.

It's just that Micros~1 got LAZY and started CRAPPING OUT ".Not"-based
and C-pound applications that ran INEFFICIENTLY, followed those up with
METRO and UWP *INEFFICIENT* *CRAP*, and essentially spend LOTS of your
CPU and RAM *WASTEFULLY* just so these "CRapps" can provide MINIMAL
FUNCTIONALITY. And THEN they did that METRO/FLATTY thing and TOTALLY
IRRITATED ME (so I *REFUSE* to use Win-10-nic). [this does NOT mean I
do NOT want to INFLUENCE THE CUSTOMER BASE to have them STOP PUTTING UP
WITH THIS]

Yes, I'm STILL using XP and 7 when Windows is needed (FreeBSD and Linux
the rest of the time), and I do NOT "surf the web" nor read e-mail in
HTML format or use "anything Outlook or 365" with these windows machines
anyway [they do accounting and run 3D printer stuff] so I do NOT need an
eternal stream of patches to fix Micros~1's *LAZY* *CODING* *BLUNDERS*.

( Micros~1 wastes time/effort CHANGING THINGS unnecessarily, but FAILS
TO FIX THE **REAL** PROBLEMS IN A TIMELY MANNER )

And Windows 11 needs AT LEAST AN OPTION to GET OUR 3D LOOKING DESKTOPS
BACK instead of that so-called "modern" 2D FLATSO FLATTY McFLATFACE
FLATASS "The Metro" look, designed for TOUCH SCREENS that only a
RELATIVE HANDFUL of people actually USE, because "Windows Phone" is
*DEAD* so *WHY* should *MY* *DESKTOP* *COMPUTER* be *LIKE* *A* *FUCKING*
*PHONE* ???

(and don't EVEN get me started on the anti-privacy "Microsoft Logon" nor
the built-in spyware or the EULA-based privacy violations)

--
(aka 'Bombastic Bob' in case you wondered)

'Feeling with my fingers, and thinking with my brain' - me

'your story is so touching, but it sounds just like a lie'
"Straighten up and fly right"

On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 08:06:20 -0700, Big Bad Bob
<BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> wrote:

>On 2021-09-05 17:12, philo wrote:
>> Surprise. Got a 32 bit Win10 machine in today for repair. MOBO was bad
>> but I had a similar one.
>>
OUT
>
>Yes, I'm STILL using XP and 7 when Windows is needed (FreeBSD and Linux
>the rest of the time), and I do NOT "surf the web" nor read e-mail in
>HTML format or use "anything Outlook or 365" with these windows machines
>anyway [they do accounting and run 3D printer stuff] so I do NOT need an
>eternal stream of patches to fix Micros~1's *LAZY* *CODING* *BLUNDERS*.
>

i LOVE how my Win XP with my FFx browser 52.9.0 32 bit non ESR
still allows me to view Youtube vids without a single commercial in
the video.

I LOVE how damn simple it is day after day without any "upgrades" to
f'k it up time and time again.

"Progress" is not always "progress", especially when it comes out of
Redmond.

On 9/7/21 3:15 PM, T wrote:
> On 9/7/21 2:28 AM, philo wrote:
>> I have an old dual core machine in my workshop that won't go above 4
>> gigs of ram.
>>
>> I think I'm going to load win10 32 bit on an SSD and run an experiment
>> to see how it performs.
>
> Hi Philo,
>
> From what I have seen, 32 bit is a tiny tad faster than
> 64 bit on Windows.  On Linux, 64 bit blows the lid off
> of 32 bit.
>
> My big hassle is when software expect 64 bit or they mix
> 64 bit and 32 bit together.  Use to be everything was
> all 32 bit, but now some folks are dropping 32 bit
> in favor of 64 bit.
>
> One of the Raku (Perl6) developers even had to spin
> a special 32 bit Raku for me.
>
> Quickbooks is 32 bit and they have NO INTENTION of
> upgrading.  And it will not interface with 64 bit
> Thunderbird, but will with 32 bit Thunderbird.  I
> fix that one a lot.
>
> Such is life in the fast lane.
>
> -T

I'm not a gamer but I still like to play the Win3x version of Tetris.
With a minor tweak it will run in Wun10 32 bit.

To get it to run in 64bit Windows, I need to play it in a win98 virtual
machine.

On 9/8/21 10:06 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
> On 2021-09-05 17:12, philo wrote:
>> Surprise. Got a 32 bit Win10 machine in today for repair. MOBO was bad
>> but I had a similar one.
>>
>> Dual core 3ghz cpu with 3 gigs fo ram
>>
>> After it finally reconfigured to the new h/w I got a surprise in that
>> it actually  is usable.
>>
>> It's from a bookstore and only needed to access the on-line data base.
>
> You don't need BLOATWARE to make a computer work, and EXCESSIVE HARDWARE
> REQUIREMENTS *JUST* to *RUN* a BLOATY BASTARD OS.  20 years ago
> computers generally had a user experience perormance SIMILAR to what you
> get on a "modern" machine.  The thing is, they did not have WIN-10-NIC
> bloating it all up with *BLOATY* *CRAP* *WARE* written with '.Not',
> C-pound, and UWP.  And they looked nicer too, i.e. Windows '98 and 2k
> and XP with the 3D Skeuomorphic desktop.
>
> It's just that Micros~1 got LAZY and started CRAPPING OUT ".Not"-based
> and C-pound applications that ran INEFFICIENTLY, followed those up with
> METRO and UWP *INEFFICIENT* *CRAP*, and essentially spend LOTS of your
> CPU and RAM *WASTEFULLY* just so these "CRapps" can provide MINIMAL
> FUNCTIONALITY.  And THEN they did that METRO/FLATTY thing and TOTALLY
> IRRITATED ME (so I *REFUSE* to use Win-10-nic).  [this does NOT mean I
> do NOT want to INFLUENCE THE CUSTOMER BASE to have them STOP PUTTING UP
> WITH THIS]
>
> Yes, I'm STILL using XP and 7 when Windows is needed (FreeBSD and Linux
> the rest of the time), and I do NOT "surf the web" nor read e-mail in
> HTML format or use "anything Outlook or 365" with these windows machines
> anyway [they do accounting and run 3D printer stuff] so I do NOT need an
> eternal stream of patches to fix Micros~1's *LAZY* *CODING* *BLUNDERS*.
>
> ( Micros~1 wastes time/effort CHANGING THINGS unnecessarily, but FAILS
> TO FIX THE **REAL** PROBLEMS IN A TIMELY MANNER )
>
> And Windows 11 needs AT LEAST AN OPTION to GET OUR 3D LOOKING DESKTOPS
> BACK instead of that so-called "modern" 2D FLATSO FLATTY McFLATFACE
> FLATASS "The Metro" look, designed for TOUCH SCREENS that only a
> RELATIVE HANDFUL of people actually USE, because "Windows Phone" is
> *DEAD* so *WHY* should *MY* *DESKTOP* *COMPUTER* be *LIKE* *A* *FUCKING*
> *PHONE* ???
>
> (and don't EVEN get me started on the anti-privacy "Microsoft Logon" nor
> the built-in spyware or the EULA-based privacy violations)
>

Yep. In 1995 , you could get by with 4 megs of RAM

now, it's 4 Gigs minimum

On 9/8/21 10:25 AM, sal@qcount.com wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 08:06:20 -0700, Big Bad Bob
> <BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> wrote:
>
>> On 2021-09-05 17:12, philo wrote:
>>> Surprise. Got a 32 bit Win10 machine in today for repair. MOBO was bad
>>> but I had a similar one.
>>>
> OUT
>>
>> Yes, I'm STILL using XP and 7 when Windows is needed (FreeBSD and Linux
>> the rest of the time), and I do NOT "surf the web" nor read e-mail in
>> HTML format or use "anything Outlook or 365" with these windows machines
>> anyway [they do accounting and run 3D printer stuff] so I do NOT need an
>> eternal stream of patches to fix Micros~1's *LAZY* *CODING* *BLUNDERS*.
>>
>
> i LOVE how my Win XP with my FFx browser 52.9.0 32 bit non ESR
> still allows me to view Youtube vids without a single commercial in
> the video.
>
> I LOVE how damn simple it is day after day without any "upgrades" to
> f'k it up time and time again.
>
> "Progress" is not always "progress", especially when it comes out of
> Redmond.
>

Hey, I will have to try that

On 2021-09-08 9:25 p.m., philo wrote:
> On 9/8/21 10:06 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>> On 2021-09-05 17:12, philo wrote:
>>> Surprise. Got a 32 bit Win10 machine in today for repair. MOBO was
>>> bad but I had a similar one.
>>>
>>> Dual core 3ghz cpu with 3 gigs fo ram
>>>
>>> After it finally reconfigured to the new h/w I got a surprise in that
>>> it actually  is usable.
>>>
>>> It's from a bookstore and only needed to access the on-line data base.
>>
>> You don't need BLOATWARE to make a computer work, and EXCESSIVE
>> HARDWARE REQUIREMENTS *JUST* to *RUN* a BLOATY BASTARD OS.  20 years
>> ago computers generally had a user experience perormance SIMILAR to
>> what you get on a "modern" machine.  The thing is, they did not have
>> WIN-10-NIC bloating it all up with *BLOATY* *CRAP* *WARE* written with
>> '.Not', C-pound, and UWP.  And they looked nicer too, i.e. Windows '98
>> and 2k and XP with the 3D Skeuomorphic desktop.
>>
>> It's just that Micros~1 got LAZY and started CRAPPING OUT ".Not"-based
>> and C-pound applications that ran INEFFICIENTLY, followed those up
>> with METRO and UWP *INEFFICIENT* *CRAP*, and essentially spend LOTS of
>> your CPU and RAM *WASTEFULLY* just so these "CRapps" can provide
>> MINIMAL FUNCTIONALITY.  And THEN they did that METRO/FLATTY thing and
>> TOTALLY IRRITATED ME (so I *REFUSE* to use Win-10-nic).  [this does
>> NOT mean I do NOT want to INFLUENCE THE CUSTOMER BASE to have them
>> STOP PUTTING UP WITH THIS]
>>
>> Yes, I'm STILL using XP and 7 when Windows is needed (FreeBSD and
>> Linux the rest of the time), and I do NOT "surf the web" nor read
>> e-mail in HTML format or use "anything Outlook or 365" with these
>> windows machines anyway [they do accounting and run 3D printer stuff]
>> so I do NOT need an eternal stream of patches to fix Micros~1's *LAZY*
>> *CODING* *BLUNDERS*.
>>
>> ( Micros~1 wastes time/effort CHANGING THINGS unnecessarily, but FAILS
>> TO FIX THE **REAL** PROBLEMS IN A TIMELY MANNER )
>>
>> And Windows 11 needs AT LEAST AN OPTION to GET OUR 3D LOOKING DESKTOPS
>> BACK instead of that so-called "modern" 2D FLATSO FLATTY McFLATFACE
>> FLATASS "The Metro" look, designed for TOUCH SCREENS that only a
>> RELATIVE HANDFUL of people actually USE, because "Windows Phone" is
>> *DEAD* so *WHY* should *MY* *DESKTOP* *COMPUTER* be *LIKE* *A*
>> *FUCKING* *PHONE* ???
>>
>> (and don't EVEN get me started on the anti-privacy "Microsoft Logon"
>> nor the built-in spyware or the EULA-based privacy violations)
>>
>
>
> Yep. In 1995 , you could get by with 4 megs of RAM
>
> now, it's 4 Gigs minimum

Wow, I should have read that Big Bad Bob post because it's spot on. I've
been using PCs since Windows 3.0 (I had a TI994A before that) and I
don't see how my computing experience changed since then. On Windows
3.1, I was able to read my e-mails, browse (simple) web pages, connect
to Usenet and IRC and, had social networking been around then, probably
get onto a very simplified version of Facebook. Our machines are
absolute beasts compared to what we used back then yet, unless we're
playing games, watching movies and videos, and ripping optical media,
not very different.

Multimedia is what requires more processing but if we're not consuming
it, we have no realistic need for today's machines. In most cases, we've
upgraded for the sake of upgrading.

--
@RabidHussar

On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 at 10:25:22, sal@qcount.com wrote (my responses
usually follow points raised):
[]
>"Progress" is not always "progress", especially when it comes out of
>Redmond.

It can be backwards. (Like Pan-Am, who allegedly never made a loss -
though might have made a negative profit occasionally.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Wisdom is the ability to cope. - the late (AB of C) Michael Ramsey,
quoted by Stephen Fry (RT 24-30 August 2013)

On Thu, 9 Sep 2021 at 08:00:20, RabidHussar <rabid@huss.ar> wrote (my
responses usually follow points raised):
[]
>Multimedia is what requires more processing but if we're not consuming

Even that - unless perhaps we're talking 4K or above, or wanting to
actually _process_ it in real-time or faster - doesn't really require
today's processing power; one or two cores, especially with graphics
processing power - is more than enough for many multimedia applications.

>it, we have no realistic need for today's machines. In most cases,
>we've upgraded for the sake of upgrading.
>
Or, because those with whom we have to interact - especially if we're in
business - have. )-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Wisdom is the ability to cope. - the late (AB of C) Michael Ramsey,
quoted by Stephen Fry (RT 24-30 August 2013)

On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 20:26:04 -0500, philo <philo@privacy.net> wrote:

>On 9/8/21 10:25 AM, sal@qcount.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 08:06:20 -0700, Big Bad Bob
>> <BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2021-09-05 17:12, philo wrote:
>>>> Surprise. Got a 32 bit Win10 machine in today for repair. MOBO was bad
>>>> but I had a similar one.
>>>>
>> OUT
>>>
>>> Yes, I'm STILL using XP and 7 when Windows is needed (FreeBSD and Linux
>>> the rest of the time), and I do NOT "surf the web" nor read e-mail in
>>> HTML format or use "anything Outlook or 365" with these windows machines
>>> anyway [they do accounting and run 3D printer stuff] so I do NOT need an
>>> eternal stream of patches to fix Micros~1's *LAZY* *CODING* *BLUNDERS*.
>>>
>>
>> i LOVE how my Win XP with my FFx browser 52.9.0 32 bit non ESR
>> still allows me to view Youtube vids without a single commercial in
>> the video.
>>
>> I LOVE how damn simple it is day after day without any "upgrades" to
>> f'k it up time and time again.
>>
>> "Progress" is not always "progress", especially when it comes out of
>> Redmond.
>>
>
>
>Hey, I will have to try that

The one problem I have with Youtube is that I sometimes get the
message that because of my older software I'm unable to download or
see the file.

To defeat that I use the 3d downloader to download it. If I then
find I don't care to keep the file, I DEL it. Simple.
https://www.3dyd.com/

On 2021-09-09 2:03 p.m., J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Sep 2021 at 08:00:20, RabidHussar <rabid@huss.ar> wrote (my
> responses usually follow points raised):
> []
>> Multimedia is what requires more processing but if we're not consuming
>
> Even that - unless perhaps we're talking 4K or above, or wanting to
> actually _process_ it in real-time or faster - doesn't really require
> today's processing power; one or two cores, especially with graphics
> processing power - is more than enough for many multimedia applications.

Absolutely. Most of what I do can be done on the old 386SX-16 with 2MB
of RAM that I ran Windows 3.1 on.

- Word processing to prepare something for my students -> Old version of
Microsoft Word and a dot matrix printer.
- E-Mail -> Old version of Eudora or even Netscape Mail connecting to a
POP3 version of my account (as far as I know, most services still allow
for POP3)
- IRC -> Old version of mIRC
- Usenet -> Old version of Netscape Mail
- Browsing -> Old version of Netscape with images turned off since the
text is all that I want anyway... I don't need the images.

Other than listening to music, which I know the 386SX-16 can't handle
since it required AT LEAST a 486DX4-100 in my experience, what I do the
most is still doable on ancient hardware. In fact, I can probably get it
done on an Atari ST since I know that people kept releasing software for
it into 1997.

>> it, we have no realistic need for today's machines. In most cases,
>> we've upgraded for the sake of upgrading.
>>
> Or, because those with whom we have to interact - especially if we're in
> business - have. )-:

That's true.

--
@RabidHussar

On 9/9/21 7:00 AM, RabidHussar wrote:
> On 2021-09-08 9:25 p.m., philo wrote:
>> On 9/8/21 10:06 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>> On 2021-09-05 17:12, philo wrote:
>>>> Surprise. Got a 32 bit Win10 machine in today for repair. MOBO was
>>>> bad but I had a similar one.
>>>>
>>>> Dual core 3ghz cpu with 3 gigs fo ram
>>>>
>>>> After it finally reconfigured to the new h/w I got a surprise in
>>>> that it actually  is usable.
>>>>
>>>> It's from a bookstore and only needed to access the on-line data base.
>>>
>>> You don't need BLOATWARE to make a computer work, and EXCESSIVE
>>> HARDWARE REQUIREMENTS *JUST* to *RUN* a BLOATY BASTARD OS.  20 years
>>> ago computers generally had a user experience perormance SIMILAR to
>>> what you get on a "modern" machine.  The thing is, they did not have
>>> WIN-10-NIC bloating it all up with *BLOATY* *CRAP* *WARE* written
>>> with '.Not', C-pound, and UWP.  And they looked nicer too, i.e.
>>> Windows '98 and 2k and XP with the 3D Skeuomorphic desktop.
>>>
>>> It's just that Micros~1 got LAZY and started CRAPPING OUT
>>> ".Not"-based and C-pound applications that ran INEFFICIENTLY,
>>> followed those up with METRO and UWP *INEFFICIENT* *CRAP*, and
>>> essentially spend LOTS of your CPU and RAM *WASTEFULLY* just so these
>>> "CRapps" can provide MINIMAL FUNCTIONALITY.  And THEN they did that
>>> METRO/FLATTY thing and TOTALLY IRRITATED ME (so I *REFUSE* to use
>>> Win-10-nic).  [this does NOT mean I do NOT want to INFLUENCE THE
>>> CUSTOMER BASE to have them STOP PUTTING UP WITH THIS]
>>>
>>> Yes, I'm STILL using XP and 7 when Windows is needed (FreeBSD and
>>> Linux the rest of the time), and I do NOT "surf the web" nor read
>>> e-mail in HTML format or use "anything Outlook or 365" with these
>>> windows machines anyway [they do accounting and run 3D printer stuff]
>>> so I do NOT need an eternal stream of patches to fix Micros~1's
>>> *LAZY* *CODING* *BLUNDERS*.
>>>
>>> ( Micros~1 wastes time/effort CHANGING THINGS unnecessarily, but
>>> FAILS TO FIX THE **REAL** PROBLEMS IN A TIMELY MANNER )
>>>
>>> And Windows 11 needs AT LEAST AN OPTION to GET OUR 3D LOOKING
>>> DESKTOPS BACK instead of that so-called "modern" 2D FLATSO FLATTY
>>> McFLATFACE FLATASS "The Metro" look, designed for TOUCH SCREENS that
>>> only a RELATIVE HANDFUL of people actually USE, because "Windows
>>> Phone" is *DEAD* so *WHY* should *MY* *DESKTOP* *COMPUTER* be *LIKE*
>>> *A* *FUCKING* *PHONE* ???
>>>
>>> (and don't EVEN get me started on the anti-privacy "Microsoft Logon"
>>> nor the built-in spyware or the EULA-based privacy violations)
>>>
>>
>>
>> Yep. In 1995 , you could get by with 4 megs of RAM
>>
>> now, it's 4 Gigs minimum
>
> Wow, I should have read that Big Bad Bob post because it's spot on. I've
> been using PCs since Windows 3.0 (I had a TI994A before that) and I
> don't see how my computing experience changed since then. On Windows
> 3.1, I was able to read my e-mails, browse (simple) web pages, connect
> to Usenet and IRC and, had social networking been around then, probably
> get onto a very simplified version of Facebook. Our machines are
> absolute beasts compared to what we used back then yet, unless we're
> playing games, watching movies and videos, and ripping optical media,
> not very different.
>
> Multimedia is what requires more processing but if we're not consuming
> it, we have no realistic need for today's machines. In most cases, we've
> upgraded for the sake of upgrading.
>

Hey, I had a TI99/4 also
Learned more about programming on that than I did in college.

Got rid of it thought when the game port died.

On 9/8/21 10:25 AM, sal@qcount.com wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 08:06:20 -0700, Big Bad Bob
> <BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> wrote:
>
>> On 2021-09-05 17:12, philo wrote:
>>> Surprise. Got a 32 bit Win10 machine in today for repair. MOBO was bad
>>> but I had a similar one.
>>>
> OUT
>>
>> Yes, I'm STILL using XP and 7 when Windows is needed (FreeBSD and Linux
>> the rest of the time), and I do NOT "surf the web" nor read e-mail in
>> HTML format or use "anything Outlook or 365" with these windows machines
>> anyway [they do accounting and run 3D printer stuff] so I do NOT need an
>> eternal stream of patches to fix Micros~1's *LAZY* *CODING* *BLUNDERS*.
>>
>
> i LOVE how my Win XP with my FFx browser 52.9.0 32 bit non ESR
> still allows me to view Youtube vids without a single commercial in
> the video.
>
> I LOVE how damn simple it is day after day without any "upgrades" to
> f'k it up time and time again.
>
> "Progress" is not always "progress", especially when it comes out of
> Redmond.
>

Just for the heck of it I fired up my XP machine but could not even load
YouTube on Firefox.

It was "fun" to re-experience things such as complete system lockups by
just plugging in a USB stick.

It's an early dual core machine which can't go above 4 gigs of RAM

Same machine I am testing 32bit Win10 on>

No lockups

On 2021-09-09 5:11 p.m., philo wrote:
> On 9/9/21 7:00 AM, RabidHussar wrote:
>> On 2021-09-08 9:25 p.m., philo wrote:
>>> On 9/8/21 10:06 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>> On 2021-09-05 17:12, philo wrote:
>>>>> Surprise. Got a 32 bit Win10 machine in today for repair. MOBO was
>>>>> bad but I had a similar one.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dual core 3ghz cpu with 3 gigs fo ram
>>>>>
>>>>> After it finally reconfigured to the new h/w I got a surprise in
>>>>> that it actually  is usable.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's from a bookstore and only needed to access the on-line data base.
>>>>
>>>> You don't need BLOATWARE to make a computer work, and EXCESSIVE
>>>> HARDWARE REQUIREMENTS *JUST* to *RUN* a BLOATY BASTARD OS.  20 years
>>>> ago computers generally had a user experience perormance SIMILAR to
>>>> what you get on a "modern" machine.  The thing is, they did not have
>>>> WIN-10-NIC bloating it all up with *BLOATY* *CRAP* *WARE* written
>>>> with '.Not', C-pound, and UWP.  And they looked nicer too, i.e.
>>>> Windows '98 and 2k and XP with the 3D Skeuomorphic desktop.
>>>>
>>>> It's just that Micros~1 got LAZY and started CRAPPING OUT
>>>> ".Not"-based and C-pound applications that ran INEFFICIENTLY,
>>>> followed those up with METRO and UWP *INEFFICIENT* *CRAP*, and
>>>> essentially spend LOTS of your CPU and RAM *WASTEFULLY* just so
>>>> these "CRapps" can provide MINIMAL FUNCTIONALITY.  And THEN they did
>>>> that METRO/FLATTY thing and TOTALLY IRRITATED ME (so I *REFUSE* to
>>>> use Win-10-nic).  [this does NOT mean I do NOT want to INFLUENCE THE
>>>> CUSTOMER BASE to have them STOP PUTTING UP WITH THIS]
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I'm STILL using XP and 7 when Windows is needed (FreeBSD and
>>>> Linux the rest of the time), and I do NOT "surf the web" nor read
>>>> e-mail in HTML format or use "anything Outlook or 365" with these
>>>> windows machines anyway [they do accounting and run 3D printer
>>>> stuff] so I do NOT need an eternal stream of patches to fix
>>>> Micros~1's *LAZY* *CODING* *BLUNDERS*.
>>>>
>>>> ( Micros~1 wastes time/effort CHANGING THINGS unnecessarily, but
>>>> FAILS TO FIX THE **REAL** PROBLEMS IN A TIMELY MANNER )
>>>>
>>>> And Windows 11 needs AT LEAST AN OPTION to GET OUR 3D LOOKING
>>>> DESKTOPS BACK instead of that so-called "modern" 2D FLATSO FLATTY
>>>> McFLATFACE FLATASS "The Metro" look, designed for TOUCH SCREENS that
>>>> only a RELATIVE HANDFUL of people actually USE, because "Windows
>>>> Phone" is *DEAD* so *WHY* should *MY* *DESKTOP* *COMPUTER* be *LIKE*
>>>> *A* *FUCKING* *PHONE* ???
>>>>
>>>> (and don't EVEN get me started on the anti-privacy "Microsoft Logon"
>>>> nor the built-in spyware or the EULA-based privacy violations)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yep. In 1995 , you could get by with 4 megs of RAM
>>>
>>> now, it's 4 Gigs minimum
>>
>> Wow, I should have read that Big Bad Bob post because it's spot on.
>> I've been using PCs since Windows 3.0 (I had a TI994A before that) and
>> I don't see how my computing experience changed since then. On Windows
>> 3.1, I was able to read my e-mails, browse (simple) web pages, connect
>> to Usenet and IRC and, had social networking been around then,
>> probably get onto a very simplified version of Facebook. Our machines
>> are absolute beasts compared to what we used back then yet, unless
>> we're playing games, watching movies and videos, and ripping optical
>> media, not very different.
>>
>> Multimedia is what requires more processing but if we're not consuming
>> it, we have no realistic need for today's machines. In most cases,
>> we've upgraded for the sake of upgrading.
>>
>
>
> Hey, I had a TI99/4 also
> Learned more about programming on that than I did in college.
>
> Got rid of it thought when the game port died.

My uncle got that unit for my brother and I, most likely expecting that
we would learn to program on it like his son did. Instead, we spent most
of our time playing games on it and not learning a thing. :)
--
@RabidHussar

On 9/9/21 4:21 PM, RabidHussar wrote:
> On 2021-09-09 5:11 p.m., philo wrote:
>> On 9/9/21 7:00 AM, RabidHussar wrote:
>>> On 2021-09-08 9:25 p.m., philo wrote:
>>>> On 9/8/21 10:06 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>> On 2021-09-05 17:12, philo wrote:
>>>>>> Surprise. Got a 32 bit Win10 machine in today for repair. MOBO was
>>>>>> bad but I had a similar one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dual core 3ghz cpu with 3 gigs fo ram
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After it finally reconfigured to the new h/w I got a surprise in
>>>>>> that it actually  is usable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's from a bookstore and only needed to access the on-line data
>>>>>> base.
>>>>>
>>>>> You don't need BLOATWARE to make a computer work, and EXCESSIVE
>>>>> HARDWARE REQUIREMENTS *JUST* to *RUN* a BLOATY BASTARD OS.  20
>>>>> years ago computers generally had a user experience perormance
>>>>> SIMILAR to what you get on a "modern" machine.  The thing is, they
>>>>> did not have WIN-10-NIC bloating it all up with *BLOATY* *CRAP*
>>>>> *WARE* written with '.Not', C-pound, and UWP.  And they looked
>>>>> nicer too, i.e. Windows '98 and 2k and XP with the 3D Skeuomorphic
>>>>> desktop.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's just that Micros~1 got LAZY and started CRAPPING OUT
>>>>> ".Not"-based and C-pound applications that ran INEFFICIENTLY,
>>>>> followed those up with METRO and UWP *INEFFICIENT* *CRAP*, and
>>>>> essentially spend LOTS of your CPU and RAM *WASTEFULLY* just so
>>>>> these "CRapps" can provide MINIMAL FUNCTIONALITY.  And THEN they
>>>>> did that METRO/FLATTY thing and TOTALLY IRRITATED ME (so I *REFUSE*
>>>>> to use Win-10-nic).  [this does NOT mean I do NOT want to INFLUENCE
>>>>> THE CUSTOMER BASE to have them STOP PUTTING UP WITH THIS]
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I'm STILL using XP and 7 when Windows is needed (FreeBSD and
>>>>> Linux the rest of the time), and I do NOT "surf the web" nor read
>>>>> e-mail in HTML format or use "anything Outlook or 365" with these
>>>>> windows machines anyway [they do accounting and run 3D printer
>>>>> stuff] so I do NOT need an eternal stream of patches to fix
>>>>> Micros~1's *LAZY* *CODING* *BLUNDERS*.
>>>>>
>>>>> ( Micros~1 wastes time/effort CHANGING THINGS unnecessarily, but
>>>>> FAILS TO FIX THE **REAL** PROBLEMS IN A TIMELY MANNER )
>>>>>
>>>>> And Windows 11 needs AT LEAST AN OPTION to GET OUR 3D LOOKING
>>>>> DESKTOPS BACK instead of that so-called "modern" 2D FLATSO FLATTY
>>>>> McFLATFACE FLATASS "The Metro" look, designed for TOUCH SCREENS
>>>>> that only a RELATIVE HANDFUL of people actually USE, because
>>>>> "Windows Phone" is *DEAD* so *WHY* should *MY* *DESKTOP* *COMPUTER*
>>>>> be *LIKE* *A* *FUCKING* *PHONE* ???
>>>>>
>>>>> (and don't EVEN get me started on the anti-privacy "Microsoft
>>>>> Logon" nor the built-in spyware or the EULA-based privacy violations)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yep. In 1995 , you could get by with 4 megs of RAM
>>>>
>>>> now, it's 4 Gigs minimum
>>>
>>> Wow, I should have read that Big Bad Bob post because it's spot on.
>>> I've been using PCs since Windows 3.0 (I had a TI994A before that)
>>> and I don't see how my computing experience changed since then. On
>>> Windows 3.1, I was able to read my e-mails, browse (simple) web
>>> pages, connect to Usenet and IRC and, had social networking been
>>> around then, probably get onto a very simplified version of Facebook.
>>> Our machines are absolute beasts compared to what we used back then
>>> yet, unless we're playing games, watching movies and videos, and
>>> ripping optical media, not very different.
>>>
>>> Multimedia is what requires more processing but if we're not
>>> consuming it, we have no realistic need for today's machines. In most
>>> cases, we've upgraded for the sake of upgrading.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Hey, I had a TI99/4 also
>> Learned more about programming on that than I did in college.
>>
>> Got rid of it thought when the game port died.
>
> My uncle got that unit for my brother and I, most likely expecting that
> we would learn to program on it like his son did. Instead, we spent most
> of our time playing games on it and not learning a thing. :)

I had originally taken FORTRAN IV back in the punch card days. It took
a week to get a program running.

With the instant feedback of the Ti99, I actually learned something.

Once I proved to myself I could do it, then I played games.

On Thu, 9 Sep 2021 16:14:06 -0500, philo <philo@privacy.net> wrote:

>On 9/8/21 10:25 AM, sal@qcount.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 08:06:20 -0700, Big Bad Bob
>> <BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2021-09-05 17:12, philo wrote:
>>>> Surprise. Got a 32 bit Win10 machine in today for repair. MOBO was bad
>>>> but I had a similar one.

Del

>> i LOVE how my Win XP with my FFx browser 52.9.0 32 bit non ESR
>> still allows me to view Youtube vids without a single commercial in
>> the video.
>>
>
>Just for the heck of it I fired up my XP machine but could not even load
>YouTube on Firefox.

I don't get it. I have no problem with using Youtube with my xp
(sp3) and FFX

Here is my machine:
Operating System new – server roles
System Model
Windows XP Professional Service Pack 3 (build 2600)
Install Language: English (United States)
System Locale: English (United States)
Processor a Main Circuit Board b
2.93 gigahertz Intel Core2 Duo
64 kilobyte primary memory cache
3072 kilobyte secondary memory cache
64-bit ready
Multi-core (2 total)
Not hyper-threaded
Board: Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. EP45-UD3P
Bus Clock: 266 megahertz
BIOS: Award Software International, Inc. F7 01/13/2009
>
>It's an early dual core machine which can't go above 4 gigs of RAM

That's what I have.

On 2021-09-09 7:19 p.m., philo wrote:
> On 9/9/21 4:21 PM, RabidHussar wrote:
>> On 2021-09-09 5:11 p.m., philo wrote:
>>> On 9/9/21 7:00 AM, RabidHussar wrote:
>>>> On 2021-09-08 9:25 p.m., philo wrote:
>>>>> On 9/8/21 10:06 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
>>>>>> On 2021-09-05 17:12, philo wrote:
>>>>>>> Surprise. Got a 32 bit Win10 machine in today for repair. MOBO
>>>>>>> was bad but I had a similar one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dual core 3ghz cpu with 3 gigs fo ram
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After it finally reconfigured to the new h/w I got a surprise in
>>>>>>> that it actually  is usable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's from a bookstore and only needed to access the on-line data
>>>>>>> base.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You don't need BLOATWARE to make a computer work, and EXCESSIVE
>>>>>> HARDWARE REQUIREMENTS *JUST* to *RUN* a BLOATY BASTARD OS.  20
>>>>>> years ago computers generally had a user experience perormance
>>>>>> SIMILAR to what you get on a "modern" machine.  The thing is, they
>>>>>> did not have WIN-10-NIC bloating it all up with *BLOATY* *CRAP*
>>>>>> *WARE* written with '.Not', C-pound, and UWP.  And they looked
>>>>>> nicer too, i.e. Windows '98 and 2k and XP with the 3D Skeuomorphic
>>>>>> desktop.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's just that Micros~1 got LAZY and started CRAPPING OUT
>>>>>> ".Not"-based and C-pound applications that ran INEFFICIENTLY,
>>>>>> followed those up with METRO and UWP *INEFFICIENT* *CRAP*, and
>>>>>> essentially spend LOTS of your CPU and RAM *WASTEFULLY* just so
>>>>>> these "CRapps" can provide MINIMAL FUNCTIONALITY.  And THEN they
>>>>>> did that METRO/FLATTY thing and TOTALLY IRRITATED ME (so I
>>>>>> *REFUSE* to use Win-10-nic).  [this does NOT mean I do NOT want to
>>>>>> INFLUENCE THE CUSTOMER BASE to have them STOP PUTTING UP WITH THIS]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, I'm STILL using XP and 7 when Windows is needed (FreeBSD and
>>>>>> Linux the rest of the time), and I do NOT "surf the web" nor read
>>>>>> e-mail in HTML format or use "anything Outlook or 365" with these
>>>>>> windows machines anyway [they do accounting and run 3D printer
>>>>>> stuff] so I do NOT need an eternal stream of patches to fix
>>>>>> Micros~1's *LAZY* *CODING* *BLUNDERS*.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ( Micros~1 wastes time/effort CHANGING THINGS unnecessarily, but
>>>>>> FAILS TO FIX THE **REAL** PROBLEMS IN A TIMELY MANNER )
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And Windows 11 needs AT LEAST AN OPTION to GET OUR 3D LOOKING
>>>>>> DESKTOPS BACK instead of that so-called "modern" 2D FLATSO FLATTY
>>>>>> McFLATFACE FLATASS "The Metro" look, designed for TOUCH SCREENS
>>>>>> that only a RELATIVE HANDFUL of people actually USE, because
>>>>>> "Windows Phone" is *DEAD* so *WHY* should *MY* *DESKTOP*
>>>>>> *COMPUTER* be *LIKE* *A* *FUCKING* *PHONE* ???
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (and don't EVEN get me started on the anti-privacy "Microsoft
>>>>>> Logon" nor the built-in spyware or the EULA-based privacy violations)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yep. In 1995 , you could get by with 4 megs of RAM
>>>>>
>>>>> now, it's 4 Gigs minimum
>>>>
>>>> Wow, I should have read that Big Bad Bob post because it's spot on.
>>>> I've been using PCs since Windows 3.0 (I had a TI994A before that)
>>>> and I don't see how my computing experience changed since then. On
>>>> Windows 3.1, I was able to read my e-mails, browse (simple) web
>>>> pages, connect to Usenet and IRC and, had social networking been
>>>> around then, probably get onto a very simplified version of
>>>> Facebook. Our machines are absolute beasts compared to what we used
>>>> back then yet, unless we're playing games, watching movies and
>>>> videos, and ripping optical media, not very different.
>>>>
>>>> Multimedia is what requires more processing but if we're not
>>>> consuming it, we have no realistic need for today's machines. In
>>>> most cases, we've upgraded for the sake of upgrading.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hey, I had a TI99/4 also
>>> Learned more about programming on that than I did in college.
>>>
>>> Got rid of it thought when the game port died.
>>
>> My uncle got that unit for my brother and I, most likely expecting
>> that we would learn to program on it like his son did. Instead, we
>> spent most of our time playing games on it and not learning a thing. :)
>
> I had originally taken FORTRAN IV   back in the punch card days. It took
> a week to get a program running.
>
> With the instant feedback of the Ti99, I actually learned something.
>
> Once I proved to myself I could do it, then I played games.

If I had known how useful knowing how to program would be, I might have
actually made an effort back then. However, I was a kid and not too
concerned about my future at that point.

--
@RabidHussar

I ended up being a field service engineer.
I was not the type to sit at a desk.