I was experimenting with Win10, and decided to look into Fast startup. I
couldn't find it where it should be according to this website;
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/4189-turn-off-fast-startup-windows-10-a.html

There's a script available on that page, so I ran it and it told me that
it was turned on; I turned it off and then on again, then off - all ok.
It simply sets/unsets a Dword key in the registry.
Then I went in search of why I don't have it available where it should
be in Win Systems; and found that my power option is a Samsung High
Performance, obviously set by Samsung Magician for my large SSD.

Is this the case with others? Including other SSD brands?

Ed

On 9/2/21 7:05 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
> I was experimenting with Win10, and decided to look into Fast startup. I
> couldn't find it where it should be according to this website;
> https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/4189-turn-off-fast-startup-windows-10-a.html
>
>
> There's a script available on that page, so I ran it and it told me that
> it was turned on; I turned it off and then on again, then off - all ok.
> It simply sets/unsets a Dword key in the registry.
> Then I went in search of why I don't have it available where it should
> be in Win Systems; and found that my power option is a Samsung High
> Performance, obviously set by Samsung Magician for my large SSD.
>
> Is this the case with others? Including other SSD brands?
>
> Ed

Not answering your question but since I've switched over to mostly
Samsung SSDs, startup (and overall performance) has been so good, it
never even occured to me to tweak settings/

Ed Cryer wrote:
> I was experimenting with Win10, and decided to look into Fast startup. I
> couldn't find it where it should be according to this website;
> https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/4189-turn-off-fast-startup-windows-10-a.html
>
>
> There's a script available on that page, so I ran it and it told me that
> it was turned on; I turned it off and then on again, then off - all ok.
> It simply sets/unsets a Dword key in the registry.
> Then I went in search of why I don't have it available where it should
> be in Win Systems; and found that my power option is a Samsung High
> Performance, obviously set by Samsung Magician for my large SSD.
>
> Is this the case with others? Including other SSD brands?
>
> Ed

Would this be a function of your usage of
the Samsung Caching software ?

Normal read/write uses DMA, and would not benefit
from cheating by using High Performance power schema :-)

Paul

On 9/2/21 9:15 AM, philo wrote:
> On 9/2/21 7:05 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
>> I was experimenting with Win10, and decided to look into Fast startup. I
>> couldn't find it where it should be according to this website;
>> https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/4189-turn-off-fast-startup-windows-10-a.html
>>
>>
>>
>> There's a script available on that page, so I ran it and it told me that
>> it was turned on; I turned it off and then on again, then off - all ok.
>> It simply sets/unsets a Dword key in the registry.
>> Then I went in search of why I don't have it available where it should
>> be in Win Systems; and found that my power option is a Samsung High
>> Performance, obviously set by Samsung Magician for my large SSD.
>>
>> Is this the case with others? Including other SSD brands?
>>
>> Ed
>
> Not answering your question but since I've switched over to mostly
> Samsung SSDs, startup (and overall performance) has been so good, it
> never even occured to me to tweak settings/

Pretty much the same result here after upgrading my several years old
Dell Latitude laptop from a 320 GB WD spinner to a Samsung 500 GB 870EVO.

--
When did Western society decide that instead of helping mentally ill
people, we should indulge their delusions 100% and allow them to set
policy for the rest of us?

Paul wrote:
> Ed Cryer wrote:
>> I was experimenting with Win10, and decided to look into Fast startup.
>> I couldn't find it where it should be according to this website;
>> https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/4189-turn-off-fast-startup-windows-10-a.html
>>
>>
>> There's a script available on that page, so I ran it and it told me
>> that it was turned on; I turned it off and then on again, then off -
>> all ok. It simply sets/unsets a Dword key in the registry.
>> Then I went in search of why I don't have it available where it should
>> be in Win Systems; and found that my power option is a Samsung High
>> Performance, obviously set by Samsung Magician for my large SSD.
>>
>> Is this the case with others? Including other SSD brands?
>>
>> Ed
>
> Would this be a function of your usage of
> the Samsung Caching software ?
>
> Normal read/write uses DMA, and would not benefit
> from cheating by using High Performance power schema :-)
>
>    Paul
Yes. I think you're spot-on there. It reserves several GBs of RAM for
super-dooper fast+ activity (My terminology! No doubt infra dignitatem
of Samsung) and must need Win's fast startup features.
I've had this SSD and its Samsung Magician settings in place for over
three years, and it's been good; so I've never been dragged into the
behind-the-scenes stuff.
I turned fast-startup off, and tried booting. It appeared to take about
the same time as with it on.
Ed

Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:

> I was experimenting with Win10, and decided to look into Fast startup. I
> couldn't find it where it should be according to this website;
> https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/4189-turn-off-fast-startup-windows-10-a.html
>
> There's a script available on that page, so I ran it and it told me that
> it was turned on; I turned it off and then on again, then off - all ok.
> It simply sets/unsets a Dword key in the registry.
> Then I went in search of why I don't have it available where it should
> be in Win Systems; and found that my power option is a Samsung High
> Performance, obviously set by Samsung Magician for my large SSD.
>
> Is this the case with others? Including other SSD brands?

Have you measured boot time with and without Fast Startup mode? It's
far less significant when using SSDs as the OS boot device.

There are some significant disadvantages to Fast Startup mode.

https://www.howtogeek.com/243901/the-pros-and-cons-of-windows-10s-fast-startup-mode/
https://www.windowscentral.com/how-disable-windows-10-fast-startup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1ecCjj0KWc

Watch the video to see the difference between [hybrid] hibernation and
Fast Startup mode (timemark 4:50). Your unsaved data is gone with Fast
Startup mode. If your apps don't save (and quick enough) when requested
during the shutdown, or don't prompt, you lose unsaved data during that
Windows session. You are also not saving your Windows session. On a
Fast Startup boot, you have to login again and reload your profile.

What isn't mentioned is there is a trade off: faster boot also means
slower shutdown. This occurs with any type of hibernation shutdown
(full state hibernation, or Fast Startup shutdown for kernal and driver
state saves). The assumption is the user is at the computer waiting for
it to boot, but for shutdown/hibernation the user walks away before the
operation is complete.

Because Fast Startup, just like full hibernation, saves state of the OS
and drivers, a problem with a device will still be present on the Fast
Startup boot. If the hardware gets into an unusable state that the
driver cannot handle, that hardware will still be that way on a
hibernate boot or Fast Startup boot. A true cold boot has the CPU issue
a reset signal to all hardware to put it in a known state, why you see
the LEDs flash on the keyboard, and may be the only way to get the
hardware working again. This isn't a defect with just Fast Startup
mode. Resetting hardware state is always missing from any shutdown mode
that involves hibernation (full or OS+drivers). A restart is a warm
boot, and omits sending the reset signal to the hardware. Fast Startup
would have the CPU send the reset signal, but then Fast Startup (or any
hibernate mode) reinstates the OS and drivers where they were before.
If you disable hibernation, Fast Startup is also disabled (since it
relies on hibernating the OS+driver states to write to a file).

Also, some folks measure Fast Startup's performance gain from when they
press the Power button to when the login screen appears. Wrong. That
would include the time for the POST procedure which remain the same time
regardless of any setting in the OS which hasn't even loaded yet. It
also omits measuring when the OS is actually ready for your use. Your
Windows profile still has to get loaded along with any startup programs
that could impact your use of other apps.

I rarely shutdown (power off, hibernate, whatever) my computer. Instead
it runs 24x7. I don't even have it go into low-power mode. That means
I never want Fast Startup mode since I will be sitting at the computer
to do the longer shutdown for a restart to boot while troubleshooting.

If you put the OS system & boot partitions on an SSD, you don't need
Fast Startup mode, and its use causes problems. How many times a day do
you power on your computer? For me, very rarely. For many users, once
per day. When they have problems with Fast Startup, they'll waste a ton
of time that Fast Startup was supposed to save them. How much the boot
time gets reduced depends on the type of drive to where the hibernation
data gets written: HHD = slowest, SATA SSD = faster, m.2 NVMe SSD =
fastest, and that also apply to the time added at shutdown to write the
hibernation file. However, any hibernate mode causes more write wear on
the SSD (SATA or NVMe). The longevity of my SSD, especially for an m.2
NVMe SSD, is far more imporant to me than shaving off a few seconds for
boot time.

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

> Ed Cryer wrote:
>
>> I was experimenting with Win10, and decided to look into Fast startup. I
>> couldn't find it where it should be according to this website;
>> https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/4189-turn-off-fast-startup-windows-10-a.html
>>
>> There's a script available on that page, so I ran it and it told me that
>> it was turned on; I turned it off and then on again, then off - all ok.
>> It simply sets/unsets a Dword key in the registry.
>> Then I went in search of why I don't have it available where it should
>> be in Win Systems; and found that my power option is a Samsung High
>> Performance, obviously set by Samsung Magician for my large SSD.
>>
>> Is this the case with others? Including other SSD brands?
>
> Would this be a function of your usage of
> the Samsung Caching software ?
>
> Normal read/write uses DMA, and would not benefit
> from cheating by using High Performance power schema :-)

I'm wondering if the OP was led into using Samsung Magician's software
to supposedly accelerate the SSD based on the numbers shown by Magician.
Those numbers are bogus. They measure the time from when a write
request is issued to when the file gets dumped into RAM cache (yep, you
use more RAM for Rapid Mode), not to when the drive gets the data (which
also gets cached there). It does not measure from request to write
accepted by drive. Other benchmarks will show true values. If you have
the runs, you don't measure the time from parking your car to when you
get through door into your home. You include the time to get from the
door to the toilet to drop your pants to sit down and release.
Samsung's benchmarks in Magician are biased. They don't included the
time to get from their RAM cache to the physical drive. So, yeah, using
Rapid Mode suddenly shows a big performance improvement, but your files
haven't yet been actually written to the drive.

There are other RAM drive caching solutions (no, not RAM disks, but RAM
caching); e.g., PrimoCache O&O CleverCache (both $30). Samsung might be
a bit safer, and it's free (if you have a Samsung SSD), but their
benchmarking in Magician is bogus. It's their driver that can cause
problems. Rapid Mode has the OS using Samsung's caching driver instead
of the standard device one, or a custom one provided with the hardware.
That's why after enabling Rapid Mode a restart is required to load the
different device driver. I had mysterious effects (problems) arise when
using the Rapid Mode driver, and switching it off (which requires a
reboot to revert to the standard driver) eliminated the problems.

When you have a SATA SSD, Magician will offer to supplant the standard
driver with Samsung's RAM caching driver (be sure you want to sacrifice
the RAM space). However, if you have an NVMe SSD, Magician will disable
that "feature", because it cannot help pseudo-speedup that hardware (by
showing its bogus benchmarks). The NVMe drive already has integral
logic to speed it up. Rapid Mode won't help further (but then it really
doesn't help at all except in rare scenarios).

https://www.windowscentral.com/samsung-ssd-rapid-mode
"The newest, and fastest NVMe drives from Samsung cannot use Rapid Mode.
They also don't need to. So if you're using a 960 or 970 series SSD, you
can end right here."

For NVMe drives, don't bother with Magician's Rapid Mode (RAM caching)
feature. Just get the NVMe drivers for the NVMe drive; for example, and
since I have the Samsung 970 NVMe m.2 SSD, I go to:

https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/minisite/ssd/product/consumer/970pro/#ge_semi_anchor_stand3

However, currently I'm just using the Microsoft driver. My recollection
from years ago is that the Samsung driver didn't give me any better
performance than the standard driver when benchmarking using several
non-Samsung tools. I might try using Samsung's NVMe driver again, but
I'd be more interested in write benchmarks, like with HDDtune, but write
benchmarking is destructive, and I'd have to rely on a prior image
backup to get back my OS, apps, and data onto the NVMe drive.

Use ANY other drive benchmark software other than Samsung Magician's to
measure write performance (which is destructive), and you'll find the
overall write performance did not improve. Slamming a file into a RAM
cache still has to wait for the cache to eventually get around to
dumping it onto the drive.

Magician is handy to change the overprovisioning of the SSD, but you can
do that using any partition manager (by leaving more/less unused
unpartitioned space on the SSD).

On 9/2/2021 11:49 AM, Wade Garrett wrote:
> On 9/2/21 9:15 AM, philo wrote:
>> On 9/2/21 7:05 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
>>> I was experimenting with Win10, and decided to look into Fast startup. I
>>> couldn't find it where it should be according to this website;
>>> https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/4189-turn-off-fast-startup-windows-10-a.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There's a script available on that page, so I ran it and it told me that
>>> it was turned on; I turned it off and then on again, then off - all ok.
>>> It simply sets/unsets a Dword key in the registry.
>>> Then I went in search of why I don't have it available where it should
>>> be in Win Systems; and found that my power option is a Samsung High
>>> Performance, obviously set by Samsung Magician for my large SSD.
>>>
>>> Is this the case with others? Including other SSD brands?
>>>
>>> Ed
>>
>> Not answering your question but since I've switched over to mostly
>> Samsung SSDs, startup (and overall performance) has been so good, it
>> never even occured to me to tweak settings/
>
> Pretty much the same result here after upgrading my several years old
> Dell Latitude laptop from a 320 GB WD spinner to a Samsung 500 GB 870EVO.
>

Except for storing data, I'm done with "spinners."