*Why is it that only iOS is missing the FOSS Tor Browser Bundle?*

Every other common consumer operating system has this anonymity tool.
Except iOS. (Linux, Windows, macOS, and Android - but not iOS)

Why is this very common kind of anonymity impossible _only_ on iOS.

What's so very different about this _one_ common consumer operating system
that this powerful anonymity privacy isn't available in the iOS App Store?

Why isn't this type of anonymity privacy available on that _one_ operating
system - and yet - this type of privacy is available on all the others.

What's so very different about iOS from _all_ other common consumer OS's?

"Robin Goodfellow" <Ancient-of-Days@Heaven.Net> wrote

| *Why is it that only iOS is missing the FOSS Tor Browser Bundle?*
|

Why is it that you crossposted that to a Windows group?
And why is it that you use Apple products if you care about
privacy? Your iPhone is a tracking collar, yet you worry that
websites might get your IP address?

On 01/09/2021 07:33, Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> Why is this very common kind of anonymity impossible _only_ on iOS.

It's not, which is why other developers have made it available in the
App Store instead.

<https://apps.apple.com/us/app/onion-browser/id519296448>

On 9/1/2021 5:40 AM, Calum wrote:
> On 01/09/2021 07:33, Robin Goodfellow wrote:
>> Why is this very common kind of anonymity impossible _only_ on iOS.
>
> It's not, which is why other developers have made it available in the
> App Store instead.
>
> <https://apps.apple.com/us/app/onion-browser/id519296448>

It isn't the same thing.

"Onion Browser is a minimal browser, and not a fairly full featured
Firefox version like Tor Browser is. This might present you with a
fingerprinting issue, depending on your threat model.

If you use it, do heed the additional warnings Onion Browser gives you
about what it cannot anonymize due to the nature of iOS."

<https://tor.stackexchange.com/questions/1893/how-can-i-use-tor-browser-on-my-iphone-without-jail-breaking-it>

The bottom line is that while the Onion browser is better than nothing,
for maximum privacy in a browser, you need to be on Linux, Windows, or
Android.

I have Onion on my iPhone but usually use Chrome, Even on Android I
rarely use Tor. Sometimes I switch browsers when a site doesn't like one
browser or another, but I rarely need the advantages that Tor provides,
and it seems slower.

In article <sgo3sn$msf$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> The bottom line is that while the Onion browser is better than nothing,
> for maximum privacy in a browser, you need to be on Linux, Windows, or
> Android.

false.

Calum <com.gmail@nospam.scottishwildcat> asked
>> Why is this very common kind of anonymity impossible _only_ on iOS.
>
> It's not, which is why other developers have made it available in the
> App Store instead.
>
> <https://apps.apple.com/us/app/onion-browser/id519296448>

Hi Calum,

Thank you for helping to prove that Tor anonymity is _impossible_ on iOS.

It's well known to all (but the iOS users) that their onion browser doesn't
have anywhere near the same privacy protections as the Tor Browser does.

*Apple doesn't _allow_ iOS users the Tor privacy all other platforms have.*

Nobody intelligent on Linux would be fooled by that insecure fake TBB app.
Most folks on Windows would be fooled either by that insecure fake TBB app.
And nobody who knows anything on Android would be fooled by such fake apps.

Only the iOS owners are fooled.
The iOS owners are different.

The question is what's so different about iOS from _all_ other common OS's?
*Why is it _only_ iOS which is so horribly crippled in anonymity privacy?*
--
And they don't even know it.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> asked
>> The bottom line is that while the Onion browser is better than nothing,
>> for maximum privacy in a browser, you need to be on Linux, Windows, or
>> Android.
>
> false.

This is probably the most indicative of the differences between platforms!

1. Notice that Steve _correctly_ understood the facts that Apple does not
allow the kind of privacy _all_ other common OS users habitually have.

2. Then notice how the Apple iOS users literally _deny_ all facts about
Apple products they simply don't like (i.e., the entire belief system
of most iOS users is completely fabricated by Apple for them).

*This is, I think, fundamentally, what's different between the platforms.*

sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> asked
> If you use it, do heed the additional warnings Onion Browser gives you
> about what it cannot anonymize due to the nature of iOS."

Like most Android users, Steve is aware of the salient facts.

Fundamentally, there's a huge difference between iOS users & all the rest.
These iOS users _believe_ (virtually) everything they're told, by Apple.

Can you imagine a Linux or Windows or Android user believing everything that
Canonical/Microsoft/Google feeds them - just because they _said_ it?

No way, right?
Yet, the iOS users eat up _everything_ that Apple feeds them to believe.

Like privacy.
And yet, it's not there.

Why not?
*It's _Apple_ who purposefully makes Tor anonymity _impossible_ on iOS.*

REFERENCE:
*Can I run Tor Browser on an iOS device?*
"Apple requires browsers on iOS to use something called Webkit,
which prevents Onion Browser from having the same privacy
protections as Tor Browser."
<https://support.torproject.org/tormobile/tormobile-3/>

There's something _fundamentally_ different about iOS users from the rest.
That's what I'm trying to flesh out - what's so different about iOS from us?

On 8/31/2021 11:33 PM, Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> *Why is it that only iOS is missing the FOSS Tor Browser Bundle?*
>
> Every other common consumer operating system has this anonymity tool.
> Except iOS. (Linux, Windows, macOS, and Android - but not iOS)
>
> Why is this very common kind of anonymity impossible _only_ on iOS.

<snip>

There had been an effort for a full Tor browser on jailbroken iPhones
but that project doesn’t appear to have come to fruition, and the
availability of Onion on App Store seems to have ended any interest in a
jailbroken full version.

Onion is as good as it's going to get for iOS; if you need the full
features of Tor you'll have to use a different OS; it's available for
Android, Linux, MacOS, and Windows <https://www.torproject.org/download/>.

I went ahead and added this to the document as #112.
<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JznrWfGJDA8CYVfjSnPTwfVy8-gAC0kPyaApuJTcUNE>.

Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> asked
> Why is it that you crossposted that to a Windows group?

*What's so very _different_ about this one set of OS users from us?*

I'm asking questions of a fundamental nature between user bases of the five
common consumer operating systems, particularly of iOS, Android, & Windows.

Can you imagine Linux or Windows or Android users believing everything
Canonical/Microsoft/Google feeds them - just because the mother ship _said_
it?

No way, right?
Linux/Window/Android owners are _wary_ of the mother ship's words, right?

Yet iOS users typically _believe_ everything Apple feeds them about iOS.
("*What's on your iPhone stays on your iPhone*", for example.)

There's something fundamentally _different_ about this one operating system.

> And why is it that you use Apple products if you care about
> privacy? Your iPhone is a tracking collar, yet you worry that
> websites might get your IP address?

I own _plenty_ of Apple products, mainly for two reasons:
1. I want to _know_ what I'm talking about (I can check the bullshit!).
2. I have family members (young impressionable girls) who _love_ iPhones.

I'm always trying to figure out why advertising bullshit works so well on so
many people who buy Apple products, but not on people who use all the rest.

Why aren't Linux/Windows/Android users gullibly believing _everything_ the
mother ship tells them and yet the iPhone owners tend to believe it all.

Apple simply _says_ they have privacy, and the iPhone users believe it all.
Even when it's Apple itself who is making Tor anonymity _impossible_ on iOS.

*What's so very _different_ about this one set of OS users from the rest?*

In article <sgo8m0$uik$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Robin Goodfellow
<Ancient-of-Days@Heaven.Net> wrote:

> 1. I want to _know_ what I'm talking about

you might want that, but you do not.

even when how things work is explained to you in great detail, you
ignore all of it and go off on a rant.

On 9/1/2021 8:45 AM, Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> asked
>>> The bottom line is that while the Onion browser is better than nothing,
>>> for maximum privacy in a browser, you need to be on Linux, Windows, or
>>> Android.
>>
>> false.
>
> This is probably the most indicative of the differences between platforms!
>
> 1. Notice that Steve _correctly_ understood the facts that Apple does not
> allow the kind of privacy _all_ other common OS users habitually have.
>
> 2. Then notice how the Apple iOS users literally _deny_ all facts about
> Apple products they simply don't like (i.e., the entire belief system
> of most iOS users is completely fabricated by Apple for them).

It's not just that they deny it, they respond with one-word retorts
without ever providing any information as to why they believe something
isn't accurate.

I have no dog in this fight. In my house we have two Android phones, two
iPhones, one iPad Pro, one Apple Watch, and a few unused Android
tablets, and six Windows machines (plus a lot of older unactivated phones).

If I post something that's incorrect then I'm happy to be corrected, but
because I do research, and always include references and citations, it's
rare that anyone is actually able to find anything that isn't accurate,
hence the "false," "bullshit," etc., content-free responses. Don't they
understand and care about how foolish they look? In any case, the best
response to those trolls is no response at all. Filter them out and
ignore them.

On Sep 01, 2021, sms wrote
> I went ahead and added this to the document as #112.
> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JznrWfGJDA8CYVfjSnPTwfVy8-gAC0kPyaApuJTcUNE>.

I think OrFox/Orbot isn't needed anymore.

TOR Browser on Android now works without Orfox and Orbot
https://techsmartest.com/tor-browser-on-android-now-works-without-orfox-and-orbot/

Other than that your added #112 TOR paragraph is accurate & with good links.

Ron, the humblest guy in town.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> asked
> even when how things work is explained to you in great detail, you
> ignore all of it and go off on a rant.

I'm asking about the _fundamental_ differences between platform owners.

*What's interesting is nospam mirrors almost exactly Apple's approach!*
("/You're holding it wrong/")

What's interesting isn't so much that nospam is 100% predictable in his 7
basic response to facts... but how similar his approach is to Apple's.

1. nospam will first blatantly call every fact he hates "false" or "lies";
When that fails...
2. nospam will brazenly claim the imaginary functionality actually exists;
When that fails...
3. nospam blames everyone else but Apple for the missing capability;
When that fails...
4. nospam fabricates that he told you how many times - you just missed it;
When that fails...
5. nospam says you should write your own apps if you want functionality;
When that fails...
6. nospam accuses you of being too stupid to write all your own iOS apps;
When that fails...
7. nospam resorts to an infinity of "ftfy" & ad hominem attacks.

Notice it's not so much that nospam defends Apple's lies to the death, but
that the _way_ nospam brazenly fabricates his imaginary belief system is
eerily similar to the way APple promotes their fabricated iOS functionality.
--
Nobody lies like nospam lies.
Nobody lies like Apple lies.

In article <sgoa8a$68e$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> If I post something that's incorrect then I'm happy to be corrected,

that's flat out bullshit.

you continually post incorrect things, which you not only fail to
correct, but you double-down on it insisting that you're correct and
everyone else is wrong.

> but
> because I do research, and always include references and citations,

your references are easily debunked, such as linking to a company that
makes fingerprint sensors to claim that fingerprint sensors are better.

you also ignore references and citations others provide.

> it's
> rare that anyone is actually able to find anything that isn't accurate,

it's actually quite common to find things you say that are not accurate.

your claims about face id and apple pay are two of the more recent
examples.

your claims about in-screen fingerprint sensors is another.

your 'list' of features is full of inaccurate information.

none of it has been corrected.

On 9/1/2021 8:54 AM, Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> asked
>> If you use it, do heed the additional warnings Onion Browser gives you
>> about what it cannot anonymize due to the nature of iOS."
>
> Like most Android users, Steve is aware of the salient facts.
>
> Fundamentally, there's a huge difference between iOS users & all the rest.
> These iOS users _believe_ (virtually) everything they're told, by Apple.

Please don't extrapolate the odd actions of a few Usenet trolls like
nospam, etc., onto the hundreds of millions of iPhone users that would
never behave like that. The reality is that most iPhone users are quite
happy with their devices and don't know or don't care about capabilities
that are missing. Have you ever met anyone, in real life, that acts like
those trolls? I doubt it.

I could count on two hands, with fingers left over, the number of times
I've had to explain to an iPhone or iPad user that what they used to be
able to do on Android, or what I am able to do on Android, is not
possible on their device:

1. They could not view Flash videos. But Flash was then removed from
stock Android so that difference disappeared.

2. They could not connect to a cheap Bluetooth ELM-327 OBD-II dongle.
But then there were Wi-Fi and BLE dongles that worked with iPhone,
albeit at higher prices.

3. They could not set separate volumes for calls and notifications. Odd
that this capability is missing from iOS, but unless you previously had
an Android device you probably would not even realize that this is missing.

4. Can't run a Wi-Fi analyzer.

5. Can't have two physical SIM cards (well except for some iPhones in
China).

6. Can't use a memory card.

7. Could not use a mouse with an iPad (this capability has now been added).

8. They could not add their California Covid-19 digital vaccination card
to Apple Wallet (there is a kludgy workaround).

I'm sure that I've forgotten a couple of others.

At one place I worked we did have to explain to customers why we could
not provide an iOS version of an app that made the initial setup much
faster. This was because the app required access to NMEA data, something
not available on iOS. This was a very expensive industrial device and I
suggested to the CEO that we just go to Walmart, buy some $20 locked
Tracfone Android devices, install the app, and include the phone when we
shipped, so we'd stop getting calls asking for an iOS App and having to
explain why we could not provide it.

sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> asked
> It's not just that they deny it, they respond with one-word retorts
> without ever providing any information as to why they believe something
> isn't accurate.

What's fascinating is how their response _mirrors_ exactly that of Apple's.

Apple claims _everyone_ is doing it, sans a shred of fact (where the facts
show that _nobody_ but Apple is doing it - and even then - _only_ on iOS).

> I have no dog in this fight. In my house we have two Android phones, two
> iPhones, one iPad Pro, one Apple Watch, and a few unused Android
> tablets, and six Windows machines (plus a lot of older unactivated phones).

Most Windows/Linux/Android users are not the typical iOS owner because we
don't believe _everything_ the mother ship says, just because the mother
ship said it.

We're fundamentally _different_ from most iOS owners (we're not gullible).

However, like you, I have plenty of iOS devices (I have more iPads than I
can use, and I even bought the 5G 128GB iPhone 12 mini in May at half price
even as I received a handful of 5G Samsung Galaxy A32's for free to play
with, as these are my first 5G devices (so I had to run a speedtest).
https://i.postimg.cc/zf9w1tGZ/speedtest07.jpg

Immediately I ran free ad free cellular debugging tools as my home, way up
in the mountains, has both a cellular repeater and a femtocell cell tower.
https://i.postimg.cc/xCbVQ2pj/signal02.jpg

When I tried to run _cellular_ debugging utilities on the iPhone, I failed!
Why?

Because graphical cellular debugging utilities are _impossible_ on iOS too!

In article <sgobni$gs0$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> I could count on two hands, with fingers left over, the number of times
> I've had to explain to an iPhone or iPad user that what they used to be
> able to do on Android, or what I am able to do on Android, is not
> possible on their device:

your list is as usual, bogus, and you're ignoring all of things ios can
do that android cannot.

> 1. They could not view Flash videos. But Flash was then removed from
> stock Android so that difference disappeared.

flash was removed from android about a decade ago, and when it was
there, it didn't work well. it was more of a slide show than a video.

> 2. They could not connect to a cheap Bluetooth ELM-327 OBD-II dongle.
> But then there were Wi-Fi and BLE dongles that worked with iPhone,
> albeit at higher prices.

where 'higher prices' is maybe a buck or two.

iphones were the first to support bluetooth le, which meant all sorts
of peripherals could be used that were unavailable on android until a
few years later.

> 3. They could not set separate volumes for calls and notifications. Odd
> that this capability is missing from iOS, but unless you previously had
> an Android device you probably would not even realize that this is missing.

volume control is up to app developers.

> 4. Can't run a Wi-Fi analyzer.

false.

> 5. Can't have two physical SIM cards (well except for some iPhones in
> China).

the only reason there are two physical sims in china is because e-sim
use is very low.

e-sims are the future. at some point, all phones will be e-sim.

> 6. Can't use a memory card.

technically true, but few people care. they're also slower than main
memory.

> 7. Could not use a mouse with an iPad (this capability has now been added).

android mouse support is laughable.

> 8. They could not add their California Covid-19 digital vaccination card
> to Apple Wallet (there is a kludgy workaround).

that's a california issue, not an iphone issue, and it's not a
workaround either.

> I'm sure that I've forgotten a couple of others.

you meant to say, you haven't made up any others.

> At one place I worked we did have to explain to customers why we could
> not provide an iOS version of an app that made the initial setup much
> faster. This was because the app required access to NMEA data,

when did you start working on navigation systems?

your stories keep changing.

In article <sgoc7j$nts$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Robin Goodfellow
<Ancient-of-Days@Heaven.Net> wrote:

> When I tried to run _cellular_ debugging utilities on the iPhone, I failed!
> Why?

because you have no idea what you're doing.

On 2021-09-01 12:12 p.m., nospam wrote:
> In article <sgo8m0$uik$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Robin Goodfellow
> <Ancient-of-Days@Heaven.Net> wrote:
>
>> 1. I want to _know_ what I'm talking about
>
> you might want that, but you do not.
>
> even when how things work is explained to you in great detail, you
> ignore all of it and go off on a rant.

Admittedly, even when you end up sounding rude, you do actually explains
things fairly well and it is difficult not to take you at your word.

--
@RabidHussar

In article <oJOXI.35205$jl2.22263@fx34.iad>, RabidHussar
<rabid@huss.ar> wrote:

> On 2021-09-01 12:12 p.m., nospam wrote:
> > In article <sgo8m0$uik$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Robin Goodfellow
> > <Ancient-of-Days@Heaven.Net> wrote:
> >> 1. I want to _know_ what I'm talking about
> >
> > you might want that, but you do not.
> >
> > even when how things work is explained to you in great detail, you
> > ignore all of it and go off on a rant.
>
> Admittedly, even when you end up sounding rude, you do actually explains
> things fairly well and it is difficult not to take you at your word.

my rudeness is a result of frustration from having to repeat myself so
often.

also, 'robin goodfellow' is 'arlen', who is begging to be bashed.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> asked
>> When I tried to run _cellular_ debugging utilities on the iPhone, I failed!
>> Why?
>
> because you have no idea what you're doing.

*The evidence is overwhelming Apple blames everyone but Apple for flaws.*

What is intriguing is nospam's response exactly _mirrors_ that of Apple.
/You're holding it wrong/
Apple _blames_ the user whenever an iPhone fails; just as nospam did above.

What's compelling is no other common mother ship does this blame game.
Just Apple.

Microsoft doesn't generally blame Apple when they have (their many) flaws.
Google doesn't generally blame Apple when they have (their many) flaws.
Canonical doesn't generally blame Apple when they have (their many) flaws.

What's captivating is how Apple has enticed billions of owners by claiming
imaginary privacy and fabricated non-existent functionality such as privacy:
/What happens on the iPhone stays on the iPhone/

Yet - when confronted with the facts - *Apple always blames everyone else.*
Maybe _that_ is what's fundamentally different between consumer platforms?

REFERENCES:
Windows: https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+blames+microsoft
Samsung: https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+blames+samsung
Android: https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+blames+google
iPhone: https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+blames+batteries
Users: https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+blames+users

*The evidence is overwhelming that Apple blames everyone but Apple.*

Apple Blames Samsung
https://www.cheatsheet.com/technology/apple-blames-samsung-and-android-for-iphones-decline.html/

Tim Cook blames Android
https://www.androidauthority.com/tim-cook-side-load-ios-apps-security-1235206/

Apple lawyers blame Microsoft
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-20/apple-accuses-microsoft-of-using-epic-as-proxy-in-legal-attack

Apple blames users for battery fires
https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/apple-blames-iphone-battery-fires-on-external-factors/

Apple blames users for iPhone touch disease
https://www.twincities.com/2016/11/18/apple-admits-to-iphone-touch-disease-blames-users-and-offers-149-fix/

Apple blames users for not upgrading to new iPhones
https://www.storypick.com/apple-blames-users-upgrade-iphone/

Apple blames users for signal loss
https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/apple-blames-iphone-signal-loss-on-users-1.922850

Apple blames users for holding it wrong
https://uxdesign.cc/youre-holding-it-wrong-how-to-blame-the-user-6ebfd36f5664

Apple blames batteries for secret hidden throttling
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51413724

RabidHussar wrote:
> Admittedly, even when you end up sounding rude, you do actually explains
> things fairly well and it is difficult not to take you at your word.

RabidHussar is a known sock of Alan Baker.

RabidHussar defended nospam's one word "false"
as "explaining things fairly well."

Where would we all be if everyone
always took nospam "at his word?"

On 2021-09-01 1:38 p.m., Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> asked
>>> When I tried to run _cellular_ debugging utilities on the iPhone, I failed!
>>> Why?
>>
>> because you have no idea what you're doing.
>
> *The evidence is overwhelming Apple blames everyone but Apple for flaws.*

Only if by "overwhelming" you mean "non-existent"

>
> What is intriguing is nospam's response exactly _mirrors_ that of Apple.
> /You're holding it wrong/
> Apple _blames_ the user whenever an iPhone fails; just as nospam did above.
>
> What's compelling is no other common mother ship does this blame game.
> Just Apple.
>
> Microsoft doesn't generally blame Apple when they have (their many) flaws.
> Google doesn't generally blame Apple when they have (their many) flaws.
> Canonical doesn't generally blame Apple when they have (their many) flaws.
>
> What's captivating is how Apple has enticed billions of owners by claiming
> imaginary privacy and fabricated non-existent functionality such as privacy:
> /What happens on the iPhone stays on the iPhone/
>
> Yet - when confronted with the facts - *Apple always blames everyone else.*
> Maybe _that_ is what's fundamentally different between consumer platforms?
>
> REFERENCES:
> Windows: https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+blames+microsoft
> Samsung: https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+blames+samsung
> Android: https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+blames+google
> iPhone: https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+blames+batteries
> Users: https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+blames+users
>
> *The evidence is overwhelming that Apple blames everyone but Apple.*
>
> Apple Blames Samsung
> https://www.cheatsheet.com/technology/apple-blames-samsung-and-android-for-iphones-decline.html/
>

Which is in no way Apple blaming Samsung for any flaws in anything Apple
makes.

Got it.

> Tim Cook blames Android
> https://www.androidauthority.com/tim-cook-side-load-ios-apps-security-1235206/

Same.

>
> Apple lawyers blame Microsoft
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-20/apple-accuses-microsoft-of-using-epic-as-proxy-in-legal-attack

Ditto.

Why bother going on?

On 2021-09-01 2:16 p.m., Dan Purgert wrote:
> RabidHussar wrote:
>> Admittedly, even when you end up sounding rude, you do actually explains
>> things fairly well and it is difficult not to take you at your word.
>
> RabidHussar is a known sock of Alan Baker.

I can tell you with absolute honesty that I have never posted using the
name "RabidHussar".

>
> RabidHussar defended nospam's one word "false"
> as "explaining things fairly well."
>
> Where would we all be if everyone
> always took nospam "at his word?"
>