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computers / alt.comp.os.windows-10 / Update and Another Question About My New Computer

SubjectAuthor
* Update and Another Question About My New ComputerKen Blake
+* Re: Update and Another Question About My New ComputerRene Lamontagne
|`* Re: Update and Another Question About My New ComputerKen Blake
| +* Re: Update and Another Question About My New ComputerRene Lamontagne
| |`* Re: Update and Another Question About My New ComputerKen Blake
| | +* Re: Update and Another Question About My New ComputerPaul
| | |`- Re: Update and Another Question About My New ComputerKen Blake
| | +* Re: Update and Another Question About My New ComputerChris
| | |`- Re: Update and Another Question About My New ComputerVanguardLH
| | `- Re: Update and Another Question About My New ComputerMayayana
| +- Re: Update and Another Question About My New ComputerKen Blake
| `* Re: Update and Another Question About My New ComputerVanguardLH
|  +* Re: Update and Another Question About My New ComputerRene Lamontagne
|  |+- Re: Update and Another Question About My New ComputerVanguardLH
|  |+* Re: Update and Another Question About My New ComputerRene Lamontagne
|  ||`- Re: Update and Another Question About My New ComputerKen Blake
|  |`- Re: Update and Another Question About My New ComputerKen Blake
|  `* Re: Update and Another Question About My New ComputerKen Blake
|   `* Re: Update and Another Question About My New ComputerVanguardLH
|    `- Re: Update and Another Question About My New ComputerKen Blake
`* Re: Update and Another Question About My New ComputerVanguardLH
 `* Re: Update and Another Question About My New ComputerKen Blake
  `* Re: Update and Another Question About My New ComputerVanguardLH
   `* Re: Update and Another Question About My New ComputerKen Blake
    +* Re: Update and Another Question About My New ComputerPaul
    |`- Re: Update and Another Question About My New ComputerKen Blake
    `* Re: Update and Another Question About My New ComputerVanguardLH
     `- Re: Update and Another Question About My New ComputerKen Blake

Pages:12
Update and Another Question About My New Computer

<ip1p74F3371U1@mid.individual.net>

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From: ken@invalidemail.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Update and Another Question About My New Computer
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 08:59:32 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Sun, 29 Aug 2021 15:59 UTC

I ordered everything I said I would in my last message on the this
question. Everything I ordered is now here except for the motherboard.
Its delivery date has been upgraded again; it's now Sep 7.

Nothing came with CPU-cooler adhesive so I'm ordering a tube of one from
Amazon.

The motherboard presumably comes with two SATA cables (I'm going by the
picture on the Amazon web site), so it presumably has two SATA ports.
But I'll have 3 (maybe 4 SATA devices): two 2TB HDs, one CD/DVD, and
maybe also the SSD in the old computer.

So am I right that I need to buy a SATA card to install more than two
SATA drives?

I've also ordered an inexpensive three-pack of motherboard to SATA
cables ($5), but if I need to buy a SATA card, I don't know which one to
buy. There is a bunch of choices on
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=sata+card&crid=MKODR3I6BU39&sprefix=sata+card%2Caps%2C218&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_9
at widely varying prices--$16-$70. I don't know how to choose; can
someone help?

Anything else I might need?

--
Ken

Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer

<ip1pu7F380aU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: rlamont@shaw.ca (Rene Lamontagne)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 11:11:52 -0500
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 by: Rene Lamontagne - Sun, 29 Aug 2021 16:11 UTC

On 2021-08-29 10:59 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
> I ordered everything I said I would in my last message on the this
> question. Everything I ordered is now here except for the motherboard.
> Its delivery date has been upgraded again; it's now Sep 7.
>
> Nothing came with CPU-cooler adhesive so I'm ordering a tube of one from
> Amazon.
>
> The motherboard presumably comes with two SATA cables (I'm going by the
> picture on the Amazon web site), so it presumably has two SATA ports.
> But I'll have 3 (maybe 4 SATA devices): two 2TB HDs, one CD/DVD, and
> maybe also the SSD in the old computer.
>
> So am I right that I need to buy a SATA card to install more than two
> SATA drives?
>
> I've also ordered an inexpensive three-pack of motherboard to SATA
> cables ($5), but if I need to buy a SATA card, I don't know which one to
> buy. There is a bunch of choices on
> https://www.amazon.com/s?k=sata+card&crid=MKODR3I6BU39&sprefix=sata+card%2Caps%2C218&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_9
>
> at widely varying prices--$16-$70. I don't know how to choose; can
> someone help?
>
> Anything else I might need?
>
>

Ken, I have lost track of your last Post, Which M/B did you end up
ordering? I an sure you must have about 6 Sata ports, but I will verify
when I have your M/B model.

Rene

Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer

<ip1q97F39crU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: ken@invalidemail.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 09:17:43 -0700
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In-Reply-To: <ip1pu7F380aU1@mid.individual.net>
 by: Ken Blake - Sun, 29 Aug 2021 16:17 UTC

On 8/29/2021 9:11 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
> On 2021-08-29 10:59 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>> I ordered everything I said I would in my last message on the this
>> question. Everything I ordered is now here except for the motherboard.
>> Its delivery date has been upgraded again; it's now Sep 7.
>>
>> Nothing came with CPU-cooler adhesive so I'm ordering a tube of one from
>> Amazon.
>>
>> The motherboard presumably comes with two SATA cables (I'm going by the
>> picture on the Amazon web site), so it presumably has two SATA ports.
>> But I'll have 3 (maybe 4 SATA devices): two 2TB HDs, one CD/DVD, and
>> maybe also the SSD in the old computer.
>>
>> So am I right that I need to buy a SATA card to install more than two
>> SATA drives?
>>
>> I've also ordered an inexpensive three-pack of motherboard to SATA
>> cables ($5), but if I need to buy a SATA card, I don't know which one to
>> buy. There is a bunch of choices on
>> https://www.amazon.com/s?k=sata+card&crid=MKODR3I6BU39&sprefix=sata+card%2Caps%2C218&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_9
>>
>> at widely varying prices--$16-$70. I don't know how to choose; can
>> someone help?
>>
>> Anything else I might need?
>>
>>
>
> Ken, I have lost track of your last Post, Which M/B did you end up
> ordering? I an sure you must have about 6 Sata ports, but I will verify
> when I have your M/B model.

Sorry, I should have put that in my message. It's the

ASUS Prime Z590-P LGA 1200 (Intel 11th/10th Gen) ATX Motherboard (PCIe
4.0, 10+1 Power Stages, 3X M.2, 2.5Gb LAN, Front Panel USB 3.2 Gen 2 USB
Type-C, Thunderbolt 4 Support)

If it has 6 ports, that would be great.

--
Ken

Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer

<ip1ra1F3h0oU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: rlamont@shaw.ca (Rene Lamontagne)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 11:35:13 -0500
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 by: Rene Lamontagne - Sun, 29 Aug 2021 16:35 UTC

On 2021-08-29 11:17 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
> On 8/29/2021 9:11 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>> On 2021-08-29 10:59 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>> I ordered everything I said I would in my last message on the this
>>> question. Everything I ordered is now here except for the
>>> motherboard. Its delivery date has been upgraded again; it's now Sep 7.
>>>
>>> Nothing came with CPU-cooler adhesive so I'm ordering a tube of one from
>>> Amazon.
>>>
>>> The motherboard presumably comes with two SATA cables (I'm going by the
>>> picture on the Amazon web site), so it presumably has two SATA ports.
>>> But I'll have 3 (maybe 4 SATA devices): two 2TB HDs, one CD/DVD, and
>>> maybe also the SSD in the old computer.
>>>
>>> So am I right that I need to buy a SATA card to install more than two
>>> SATA drives?
>>>
>>> I've also ordered an inexpensive three-pack of motherboard to SATA
>>> cables ($5), but if I need to buy a SATA card, I don't know which one
>>> to buy. There is a bunch of choices on
>>> https://www.amazon.com/s?k=sata+card&crid=MKODR3I6BU39&sprefix=sata+card%2Caps%2C218&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_9
>>>
>>> at widely varying prices--$16-$70. I don't know how to choose; can
>>> someone help?
>>>
>>> Anything else I might need?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Ken, I have lost track of your last Post, Which M/B did you end up
>> ordering? I an sure you must have about 6 Sata ports, but I will verify
>> when I have your M/B model.
>
>
> Sorry, I should have put that in my message. It's the
>
> ASUS Prime Z590-P LGA 1200 (Intel 11th/10th Gen) ATX Motherboard (PCIe
> 4.0, 10+1 Power Stages, 3X M.2, 2.5Gb LAN, Front Panel USB 3.2 Gen 2 USB
> Type-C, Thunderbolt 4 Support)
>
> If it has 6 ports, that would be great.
>
>

According to the online manual it has 4 sata ports.

Rene

Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer

<ip1rc4F3ha4U1@mid.individual.net>

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From: ken@invalidemail.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 09:36:19 -0700
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In-Reply-To: <ip1q97F39crU1@mid.individual.net>
 by: Ken Blake - Sun, 29 Aug 2021 16:36 UTC

On 8/29/2021 9:17 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
> On 8/29/2021 9:11 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>> On 2021-08-29 10:59 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>> I ordered everything I said I would in my last message on the this
>>> question. Everything I ordered is now here except for the motherboard.
>>> Its delivery date has been upgraded again; it's now Sep 7.
>>>
>>> Nothing came with CPU-cooler adhesive so I'm ordering a tube of one from
>>> Amazon.
>>>
>>> The motherboard presumably comes with two SATA cables (I'm going by the
>>> picture on the Amazon web site), so it presumably has two SATA ports.
>>> But I'll have 3 (maybe 4 SATA devices): two 2TB HDs, one CD/DVD, and
>>> maybe also the SSD in the old computer.
>>>
>>> So am I right that I need to buy a SATA card to install more than two
>>> SATA drives?
>>>
>>> I've also ordered an inexpensive three-pack of motherboard to SATA
>>> cables ($5), but if I need to buy a SATA card, I don't know which one to
>>> buy. There is a bunch of choices on
>>> https://www.amazon.com/s?k=sata+card&crid=MKODR3I6BU39&sprefix=sata+card%2Caps%2C218&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_9
>>>
>>> at widely varying prices--$16-$70. I don't know how to choose; can
>>> someone help?
>>>
>>> Anything else I might need?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Ken, I have lost track of your last Post, Which M/B did you end up
>> ordering? I an sure you must have about 6 Sata ports, but I will verify
>> when I have your M/B model.
>
>
> Sorry, I should have put that in my message. It's the
>
> ASUS Prime Z590-P LGA 1200 (Intel 11th/10th Gen) ATX Motherboard (PCIe
> 4.0, 10+1 Power Stages, 3X M.2, 2.5Gb LAN, Front Panel USB 3.2 Gen 2 USB
> Type-C, Thunderbolt 4 Support)
>
> If it has 6 ports, that would be great.

I've also sent ASUS an e-mail message, asking them how many SATA ports
it has. However I have no idea how long they will take to answer, so any
information you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

--
Ken

Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer

<ip1rf7F3ha4U2@mid.individual.net>

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From: ken@invalidemail.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 09:37:59 -0700
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In-Reply-To: <ip1ra1F3h0oU1@mid.individual.net>
 by: Ken Blake - Sun, 29 Aug 2021 16:37 UTC

On 8/29/2021 9:35 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
> On 2021-08-29 11:17 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>> On 8/29/2021 9:11 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>> On 2021-08-29 10:59 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>> I ordered everything I said I would in my last message on the this
>>>> question. Everything I ordered is now here except for the
>>>> motherboard. Its delivery date has been upgraded again; it's now Sep 7.
>>>>
>>>> Nothing came with CPU-cooler adhesive so I'm ordering a tube of one from
>>>> Amazon.
>>>>
>>>> The motherboard presumably comes with two SATA cables (I'm going by the
>>>> picture on the Amazon web site), so it presumably has two SATA ports.
>>>> But I'll have 3 (maybe 4 SATA devices): two 2TB HDs, one CD/DVD, and
>>>> maybe also the SSD in the old computer.
>>>>
>>>> So am I right that I need to buy a SATA card to install more than two
>>>> SATA drives?
>>>>
>>>> I've also ordered an inexpensive three-pack of motherboard to SATA
>>>> cables ($5), but if I need to buy a SATA card, I don't know which one
>>>> to buy. There is a bunch of choices on
>>>> https://www.amazon.com/s?k=sata+card&crid=MKODR3I6BU39&sprefix=sata+card%2Caps%2C218&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_9
>>>>
>>>> at widely varying prices--$16-$70. I don't know how to choose; can
>>>> someone help?
>>>>
>>>> Anything else I might need?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ken, I have lost track of your last Post, Which M/B did you end up
>>> ordering? I an sure you must have about 6 Sata ports, but I will verify
>>> when I have your M/B model.
>>
>>
>> Sorry, I should have put that in my message. It's the
>>
>> ASUS Prime Z590-P LGA 1200 (Intel 11th/10th Gen) ATX Motherboard (PCIe
>> 4.0, 10+1 Power Stages, 3X M.2, 2.5Gb LAN, Front Panel USB 3.2 Gen 2 USB
>> Type-C, Thunderbolt 4 Support)
>>
>> If it has 6 ports, that would be great.
>>
>>
>
> According to the online manual it has 4 sata ports.

Great, thanks very much. That's the ideal number for me. I should have
looked there myself.

--
Ken

Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer

<sggg3n$1d8d$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: nospam@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 13:28:24 -0400
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 by: Paul - Sun, 29 Aug 2021 17:28 UTC

Ken Blake wrote:
> On 8/29/2021 9:35 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>> On 2021-08-29 11:17 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>> On 8/29/2021 9:11 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>>> On 2021-08-29 10:59 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>> I ordered everything I said I would in my last message on the this
>>>>> question. Everything I ordered is now here except for the
>>>>> motherboard. Its delivery date has been upgraded again; it's now
>>>>> Sep 7.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing came with CPU-cooler adhesive so I'm ordering a tube of one
>>>>> from
>>>>> Amazon.
>>>>>
>>>>> The motherboard presumably comes with two SATA cables (I'm going by
>>>>> the
>>>>> picture on the Amazon web site), so it presumably has two SATA ports.
>>>>> But I'll have 3 (maybe 4 SATA devices): two 2TB HDs, one CD/DVD, and
>>>>> maybe also the SSD in the old computer.
>>>>>
>>>>> So am I right that I need to buy a SATA card to install more than two
>>>>> SATA drives?
>>>>>
>>>>> I've also ordered an inexpensive three-pack of motherboard to SATA
>>>>> cables ($5), but if I need to buy a SATA card, I don't know which
>>>>> one to buy. There is a bunch of choices on
>>>>> https://www.amazon.com/s?k=sata+card&crid=MKODR3I6BU39&sprefix=sata+card%2Caps%2C218&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_9
>>>>>
>>>>> at widely varying prices--$16-$70. I don't know how to choose; can
>>>>> someone help?
>>>>>
>>>>> Anything else I might need?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ken, I have lost track of your last Post, Which M/B did you end up
>>>> ordering? I an sure you must have about 6 Sata ports, but I will verify
>>>> when I have your M/B model.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry, I should have put that in my message. It's the
>>>
>>> ASUS Prime Z590-P LGA 1200 (Intel 11th/10th Gen) ATX Motherboard
>>> (PCIe 4.0, 10+1 Power Stages, 3X M.2, 2.5Gb LAN, Front Panel USB 3.2
>>> Gen 2 USB Type-C, Thunderbolt 4 Support)
>>>
>>> If it has 6 ports, that would be great.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> According to the online manual it has 4 sata ports.
>
>
>
> Great, thanks very much. That's the ideal number for me. I should have
> looked there myself.

When you shop for cables, you want to review the
"angles" on the ends of the cables first.

On the side-mount connectors (this is NOT yours),
one side mount might use a straight connector, the
second in the stack could use the angled one. This
is to prevent the cables from bumping into one
another.

Your connectors are verticals. Take care with those.
The cable connectors have metal jaws on them now, and ALWAYS
depress the release before applying removal force
on a vertical. The side mount ones have slightly
better retention characteristics. There were some
Asrock boards years ago, you could pull the vertical
SATA right out of the motherboard, without even needing
to be violent. And that was before the connectors
with the metal jaw on them showed up. This happened
because the connector bodies had no mechanical support
swagged into the motherboard (you melt the plastic
on the end of it at the factory, to prevent it from
coming out).

On the drive bay area, they might all be right-angle
ones. While you can use straight, for conventional
5.25 front-facing bays, if you have an Antec Sonata
with side mount (the convenient kind of mounting),
then for those, the cable end is right-angle. It has
to be right angle, or the computer case door won't
close on the hard drive stack facing you as you work.

Yours would be an order for four, identical, straight
to right angle cables. They come in several lengths.
DONT buy the longest one. Measure and check how much
cable length is required. If you have excessive cable,
then coiling it up doesn't work well. (The cables
have a bend radius limit and if a cretin wraps
elastics around them before shipping, the plastic
coaxial part gets kinked and the cables will then
suffer from transfer errors.)

You have to think about your cable routing. My cables
go through the back of the drive bay, and that takes
up a bit of length. The cables don't go "as the crow flies".

I buy my cables at the local computer store.
They're stored in plastic bags, coiled up, but no
elastics or other signs of violence. The
bend radius is not exceeded in those bags, so
they're reasonably good. You can then eyeball
the straight to right angle ones and pick out
four bags that look to be in good shape.

They also make left angle on the ends, and if you
buy the wrong one by accident, the cable end
"points upwards on the stack" while you work.
Again, this isn't typically all that convenient
and such cables here usually end up back on the
cable rack, waiting for their day in the sun.

The reason you've buying four identical ones, is so
the Asus ones remain as spares. When I got to the
store, no matter how many I really need, I usually
just buy $50 worth anyway. Like right now, I've burned
through all my SATA data spares, but I have quite
a few power ones left over.

On the motherboard end:

four straight up - should work
two right angle, two straight up - might work
two right angle, two left angle - might work

If you use angled ones on the vertical motherboard
connectors, it can sometimes be hard to get a
grip on them. The straight ones, you might need
to depress the jaw release, one straight one will be
easy, the second less so if the other cable is in its
way.

I usually leave the cables plugged into the motherboard,
and then plug them as required on the drive bays. As
otherwise, it might be difficult getting your hands
into the work area, or maybe you can't get the release
to work.

While they are "just cables", you'll soon learn that
some choices are a lot nicer than others.

Here, they show you pictures of the business end,
so you can verify they are right angle. Both ends here
have jaws, and I would rather not have jaws on the
straight end, if it made it easier to get the cables
back out of the motherboard later. Jaws are nice on
the drive end, but WDC drives are "toothless" and
there is nothing for the jaw to bite on some of them.
Still, we have to try.

This is they style I'd be buying at the local store.

https://www.amazon.ca/Cable-Matters-Pack-Degree-Right-Angle/dp/B018Y2LEBE

Here is my guess as to which is right and which is left.
The L-shaped tab on the end, is the key to understanding these.

https://i.postimg.cc/m21733vT/SATA-right-angle-vs-left-angle.gif

Paul

Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer

<sggkg5$64f$1@dont-email.me>

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From: ithinkiam@gmail.com (Chris)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 18:43:17 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Chris - Sun, 29 Aug 2021 18:43 UTC

Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
> On 8/29/2021 9:35 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>> On 2021-08-29 11:17 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>> On 8/29/2021 9:11 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>>> On 2021-08-29 10:59 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>> I ordered everything I said I would in my last message on the this
>>>>> question. Everything I ordered is now here except for the
>>>>> motherboard. Its delivery date has been upgraded again; it's now Sep 7.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing came with CPU-cooler adhesive so I'm ordering a tube of one from
>>>>> Amazon.
>>>>>
>>>>> The motherboard presumably comes with two SATA cables (I'm going by the
>>>>> picture on the Amazon web site), so it presumably has two SATA ports.
>>>>> But I'll have 3 (maybe 4 SATA devices): two 2TB HDs, one CD/DVD, and
>>>>> maybe also the SSD in the old computer.
>>>>>
>>>>> So am I right that I need to buy a SATA card to install more than two
>>>>> SATA drives?
>>>>>
>>>>> I've also ordered an inexpensive three-pack of motherboard to SATA
>>>>> cables ($5), but if I need to buy a SATA card, I don't know which one
>>>>> to buy. There is a bunch of choices on
>>>>> https://www.amazon.com/s?k=sata+card&crid=MKODR3I6BU39&sprefix=sata+card%2Caps%2C218&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_9
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> at widely varying prices--$16-$70. I don't know how to choose; can
>>>>> someone help?
>>>>>
>>>>> Anything else I might need?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ken, I have lost track of your last Post, Which M/B did you end up
>>>> ordering? I an sure you must have about 6 Sata ports, but I will verify
>>>> when I have your M/B model.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry, I should have put that in my message. It's the
>>>
>>> ASUS Prime Z590-P LGA 1200 (Intel 11th/10th Gen) ATX Motherboard (PCIe
>>> 4.0, 10+1 Power Stages, 3X M.2, 2.5Gb LAN, Front Panel USB 3.2 Gen 2 USB
>>> Type-C, Thunderbolt 4 Support)
>>>
>>> If it has 6 ports, that would be great.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> According to the online manual it has 4 sata ports.
>
>
>
> Great, thanks very much. That's the ideal number for me. I should have
> looked there myself.

Yeah manufacturers are cheap skates and don't include all the cables you
need.

Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer

<ip22s1F4u7uU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: ken@invalidemail.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 11:44:17 -0700
Lines: 175
Message-ID: <ip22s1F4u7uU1@mid.individual.net>
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In-Reply-To: <sggg3n$1d8d$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 by: Ken Blake - Sun, 29 Aug 2021 18:44 UTC

Thanks, Paul. I've already ordered them. If they turn out to be NG, it's
no big deal; I'll only be out $5.

On 8/29/2021 10:28 AM, Paul wrote:
> Ken Blake wrote:
>> On 8/29/2021 9:35 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>> On 2021-08-29 11:17 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>> On 8/29/2021 9:11 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>>>> On 2021-08-29 10:59 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>> I ordered everything I said I would in my last message on the this
>>>>>> question. Everything I ordered is now here except for the
>>>>>> motherboard. Its delivery date has been upgraded again; it's now
>>>>>> Sep 7.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nothing came with CPU-cooler adhesive so I'm ordering a tube of one
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> Amazon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The motherboard presumably comes with two SATA cables (I'm going by
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> picture on the Amazon web site), so it presumably has two SATA ports.
>>>>>> But I'll have 3 (maybe 4 SATA devices): two 2TB HDs, one CD/DVD, and
>>>>>> maybe also the SSD in the old computer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So am I right that I need to buy a SATA card to install more than two
>>>>>> SATA drives?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've also ordered an inexpensive three-pack of motherboard to SATA
>>>>>> cables ($5), but if I need to buy a SATA card, I don't know which
>>>>>> one to buy. There is a bunch of choices on
>>>>>> https://www.amazon.com/s?k=sata+card&crid=MKODR3I6BU39&sprefix=sata+card%2Caps%2C218&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_9
>>>>>>
>>>>>> at widely varying prices--$16-$70. I don't know how to choose; can
>>>>>> someone help?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anything else I might need?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ken, I have lost track of your last Post, Which M/B did you end up
>>>>> ordering? I an sure you must have about 6 Sata ports, but I will verify
>>>>> when I have your M/B model.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, I should have put that in my message. It's the
>>>>
>>>> ASUS Prime Z590-P LGA 1200 (Intel 11th/10th Gen) ATX Motherboard
>>>> (PCIe 4.0, 10+1 Power Stages, 3X M.2, 2.5Gb LAN, Front Panel USB 3.2
>>>> Gen 2 USB Type-C, Thunderbolt 4 Support)
>>>>
>>>> If it has 6 ports, that would be great.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> According to the online manual it has 4 sata ports.
>>
>>
>>
>> Great, thanks very much. That's the ideal number for me. I should have
>> looked there myself.
>
> When you shop for cables, you want to review the
> "angles" on the ends of the cables first.
>
> On the side-mount connectors (this is NOT yours),
> one side mount might use a straight connector, the
> second in the stack could use the angled one. This
> is to prevent the cables from bumping into one
> another.
>
> Your connectors are verticals. Take care with those.
> The cable connectors have metal jaws on them now, and ALWAYS
> depress the release before applying removal force
> on a vertical. The side mount ones have slightly
> better retention characteristics. There were some
> Asrock boards years ago, you could pull the vertical
> SATA right out of the motherboard, without even needing
> to be violent. And that was before the connectors
> with the metal jaw on them showed up. This happened
> because the connector bodies had no mechanical support
> swagged into the motherboard (you melt the plastic
> on the end of it at the factory, to prevent it from
> coming out).
>
> On the drive bay area, they might all be right-angle
> ones. While you can use straight, for conventional
> 5.25 front-facing bays, if you have an Antec Sonata
> with side mount (the convenient kind of mounting),
> then for those, the cable end is right-angle. It has
> to be right angle, or the computer case door won't
> close on the hard drive stack facing you as you work.
>
> Yours would be an order for four, identical, straight
> to right angle cables. They come in several lengths.
> DONT buy the longest one. Measure and check how much
> cable length is required. If you have excessive cable,
> then coiling it up doesn't work well. (The cables
> have a bend radius limit and if a cretin wraps
> elastics around them before shipping, the plastic
> coaxial part gets kinked and the cables will then
> suffer from transfer errors.)
>
> You have to think about your cable routing. My cables
> go through the back of the drive bay, and that takes
> up a bit of length. The cables don't go "as the crow flies".
>
> I buy my cables at the local computer store.
> They're stored in plastic bags, coiled up, but no
> elastics or other signs of violence. The
> bend radius is not exceeded in those bags, so
> they're reasonably good. You can then eyeball
> the straight to right angle ones and pick out
> four bags that look to be in good shape.
>
> They also make left angle on the ends, and if you
> buy the wrong one by accident, the cable end
> "points upwards on the stack" while you work.
> Again, this isn't typically all that convenient
> and such cables here usually end up back on the
> cable rack, waiting for their day in the sun.
>
> The reason you've buying four identical ones, is so
> the Asus ones remain as spares. When I got to the
> store, no matter how many I really need, I usually
> just buy $50 worth anyway. Like right now, I've burned
> through all my SATA data spares, but I have quite
> a few power ones left over.
>
> On the motherboard end:
>
> four straight up - should work
> two right angle, two straight up - might work
> two right angle, two left angle - might work
>
> If you use angled ones on the vertical motherboard
> connectors, it can sometimes be hard to get a
> grip on them. The straight ones, you might need
> to depress the jaw release, one straight one will be
> easy, the second less so if the other cable is in its
> way.
>
> I usually leave the cables plugged into the motherboard,
> and then plug them as required on the drive bays. As
> otherwise, it might be difficult getting your hands
> into the work area, or maybe you can't get the release
> to work.
>
> While they are "just cables", you'll soon learn that
> some choices are a lot nicer than others.
>
> Here, they show you pictures of the business end,
> so you can verify they are right angle. Both ends here
> have jaws, and I would rather not have jaws on the
> straight end, if it made it easier to get the cables
> back out of the motherboard later. Jaws are nice on
> the drive end, but WDC drives are "toothless" and
> there is nothing for the jaw to bite on some of them.
> Still, we have to try.
>
> This is they style I'd be buying at the local store.
>
> https://www.amazon.ca/Cable-Matters-Pack-Degree-Right-Angle/dp/B018Y2LEBE
>
> Here is my guess as to which is right and which is left.
> The L-shaped tab on the end, is the key to understanding these.
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/m21733vT/SATA-right-angle-vs-left-angle.gif
>
> Paul
>

--
Ken

Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer

<1nqeytiepxpm7$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>

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From: V@nguard.LH (VanguardLH)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 14:12:07 -0500
Organization: Usenet Elder
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 by: VanguardLH - Sun, 29 Aug 2021 19:12 UTC

Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:

> Nothing came with CPU-cooler adhesive so I'm ordering a tube of one from
> Amazon.

Don't get adhesive (and don't get thermal strips). Get paste.

> The motherboard presumably comes with two SATA cables (I'm going by the
> picture on the Amazon web site),

If the product description doesn't say "Includes ..." then go to the
mobo maker's web site to see what is included.

> so it presumably has two SATA ports.

You typically get fewer cables than there are ports. The specs on the
mobo will tell you how many SATA ports there are on the mobo. The
manual will tell you. A Google Images search might also show you better
pics of the mobo, especially if you filter on large images, so you can
enlarge the pic to get a closer view.

Better yet, read the manual. Often some ports become disabled if, for
example, you use the m.2 connectors for NVMe SATA drives. You should
read the manual BEFORE you get the mobo to check on such dependencies.

> I've also ordered an inexpensive three-pack of motherboard to SATA
> cables ($5),

$5 per cable is about right-priced for a good cable, but $5 for a 3-pack
has you getting some crap quality cables.

Also, you need to look at the mobo and figure out how it fits inside the
case along with possible obstructions, like the drive cage, front fans,
etc. You may need to get some right-angled connectors on one, or both,
ends of some SATA cables to ensure they fit without torquing on the mobo
headers or sharply bending the cables at the connectors. Also, once you
fitted the mobo into the case and installed the drives, you'll know
better how long should be the cables without getting them overly long
and making a mess inside the case along with interferring with air flow.
You also don't want them flexing toward and hitting fans. You can get
some cables beforehand, but you may end up having to order more after
you get the mobo, case, and drives to see the actual best length to get
them from mobo to drive without undo stress on headers, cables, and
connectors, to tuck out of the way (you will be inside working on this
computer sometime later), but not turn into a tangled mess.

Don't know what case you got. Some have both sides panels removable.
If so, and if they gave a bit of space on the underside of the mobo, you
can route some cabling underneath the mobo.

> I need to buy a SATA card

Not likely. Again, look at large pics of the mobo, or go read the
manual to see how many mobo headers there are for SATA connections (not
eSATA unless you actually an external SATA device), and to check for
dependencies on their use.

RTFM before buying hardware you probably don't need. Prepare BEFORE the
build.

Oh, by the way, SATA connections are just friction holding them
together. Some SATA cables have a clamp or jaw to help hold the
connector to the header; however, be careful using those where space is
so tight you can barely get your fingers on the connector to pull it off
since you may not be able to have the extra width to put your finger on
the jaws to flex them off the connector. A case in point is if the SATA
connectors are at the upper half of the right-side of the mobo which
puts them under a drive cage. Tough to get your fingers under the drive
cage and pull on a particular SATA connector while also trying to
squeeze the retainer jaws. I do like the ones with jaws to keep the
connectors from walking apart due to thermal flex, so I don't have to
push them back together after a few years. Less troubleshooting, but a
bitch if there's little room for your fingers without having to
dismantle other stuff, like remove drives.

Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer

<3huzl5zgcdrp$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>

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From: V@nguard.LH (VanguardLH)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 14:34:17 -0500
Organization: Usenet Elder
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 by: VanguardLH - Sun, 29 Aug 2021 19:34 UTC

Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:

> On 8/29/2021 9:11 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>> On 2021-08-29 10:59 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>> I ordered everything I said I would in my last message on the this
>>> question. Everything I ordered is now here except for the motherboard.
>>> Its delivery date has been upgraded again; it's now Sep 7.
>>>
>>> Nothing came with CPU-cooler adhesive so I'm ordering a tube of one from
>>> Amazon.
>>>
>>> The motherboard presumably comes with two SATA cables (I'm going by the
>>> picture on the Amazon web site), so it presumably has two SATA ports.
>>> But I'll have 3 (maybe 4 SATA devices): two 2TB HDs, one CD/DVD, and
>>> maybe also the SSD in the old computer.
>>>
>>> So am I right that I need to buy a SATA card to install more than two
>>> SATA drives?
>>>
>>> I've also ordered an inexpensive three-pack of motherboard to SATA
>>> cables ($5), but if I need to buy a SATA card, I don't know which one to
>>> buy. There is a bunch of choices on
>>> https://www.amazon.com/s?k=sata+card&crid=MKODR3I6BU39&sprefix=sata+card%2Caps%2C218&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_9
>>>
>>> at widely varying prices--$16-$70. I don't know how to choose; can
>>> someone help?
>>>
>>> Anything else I might need?
>>>
>>
>> Ken, I have lost track of your last Post, Which M/B did you end up
>> ordering? I an sure you must have about 6 Sata ports, but I will verify
>> when I have your M/B model.
>
> Sorry, I should have put that in my message. It's the
>
> ASUS Prime Z590-P LGA 1200 (Intel 11th/10th Gen) ATX Motherboard (PCIe
> 4.0, 10+1 Power Stages, 3X M.2, 2.5Gb LAN, Front Panel USB 3.2 Gen 2 USB
> Type-C, Thunderbolt 4 Support)
>
> If it has 6 ports, that would be great.

See my other post. Not all 6 may be concurrentl usable. There may be
dependencies on what else you connect that lowers the useful count of
the SATA ports.

From pics of the ASUS Prime Z590-P, looks like just 4 SATA ports. From
the pic at:

https://dlcdnwebimgs.asus.com/gain/17aff855-1b28-4a7d-8ca1-9aaf8418b723/

There is, at least, 1 m.2 slot, and it is inuse. You see it as the
silver heatsink spanning the width of the mobo about half way and has
"M.2 PCIe 4.0" printed on it. That likely means one of the SATA ports
got consumed. In fact, from:

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/PRIME/PRIME-Z590-P/

it says there are 3 m.2 slots. If you add another 2 NVMe m.2 SSD
drives, you'll lose another 2 SATA ports, for a loss of 3 total. So,
you could max out the m.2 slots to fully populate the mobo with 3 NVMe
SSD drives, and you'll have left only 1 SATA mobo port.

Under the tech specs at the above product page, it already notes, but
just for the m.2_2 slot, "When a device in SATA mode is installed on the
M.2_2 slot, SATA6G_2 port cannot be used." No mention if using the
other m.2 slots usurps a SATA port each.

The manuals are at:

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/PRIME/PRIME-Z590-P/HelpDesk_Manual/

You should read them before getting the mobo. Actually, you should have
read the manual before ordering the mobo. You find dependencies, like:

m.2_1 slot is only usable with Intel 11th Gen CPUs that support PCIe
4.0x4 mode; else, that NVMe m.2 slot is disabled. Don't know what CPU
you're getting with this mobo.

m.2_2 slot usurps use of the SATA6G_2 header. You have to make a
choice: add an m.2 NVMe SSD drive to m.2_2 and lose a SATA port, or use
the SATA port and lose the m.2 slot.

No dependency was mentioned for the m.2_3 slot, but it's not my mobo, or
one that I would be considering for purchase, so I didn't thoroughly
scan the manual.

RTFM to be prepared for how you config your build. It's at:

https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1200/PRIME_Z590-P/E17714_PRIME_Z590-P_UM_WEB.pdf

There are other manuals for this mobo that you should also read. Know
what you got, so you know how to build.

Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer

<kezlp6tpt6u8$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>

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From: V@nguard.LH (VanguardLH)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 14:45:55 -0500
Organization: Usenet Elder
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 by: VanguardLH - Sun, 29 Aug 2021 19:45 UTC

Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>> On 8/29/2021 9:35 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>> On 2021-08-29 11:17 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>> On 8/29/2021 9:11 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>>>> On 2021-08-29 10:59 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>> I ordered everything I said I would in my last message on the this
>>>>>> question. Everything I ordered is now here except for the
>>>>>> motherboard. Its delivery date has been upgraded again; it's now Sep 7.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nothing came with CPU-cooler adhesive so I'm ordering a tube of one from
>>>>>> Amazon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The motherboard presumably comes with two SATA cables (I'm going by the
>>>>>> picture on the Amazon web site), so it presumably has two SATA ports.
>>>>>> But I'll have 3 (maybe 4 SATA devices): two 2TB HDs, one CD/DVD, and
>>>>>> maybe also the SSD in the old computer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So am I right that I need to buy a SATA card to install more than two
>>>>>> SATA drives?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've also ordered an inexpensive three-pack of motherboard to SATA
>>>>>> cables ($5), but if I need to buy a SATA card, I don't know which one
>>>>>> to buy. There is a bunch of choices on
>>>>>> https://www.amazon.com/s?k=sata+card&crid=MKODR3I6BU39&sprefix=sata+card%2Caps%2C218&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_9
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> at widely varying prices--$16-$70. I don't know how to choose; can
>>>>>> someone help?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anything else I might need?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ken, I have lost track of your last Post, Which M/B did you end up
>>>>> ordering? I an sure you must have about 6 Sata ports, but I will verify
>>>>> when I have your M/B model.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, I should have put that in my message. It's the
>>>>
>>>> ASUS Prime Z590-P LGA 1200 (Intel 11th/10th Gen) ATX Motherboard (PCIe
>>>> 4.0, 10+1 Power Stages, 3X M.2, 2.5Gb LAN, Front Panel USB 3.2 Gen 2 USB
>>>> Type-C, Thunderbolt 4 Support)
>>>>
>>>> If it has 6 ports, that would be great.
>>>>
>>>
>>> According to the online manual it has 4 sata ports.
>>
>> Great, thanks very much. That's the ideal number for me. I should have
>> looked there myself.
>
> Yeah manufacturers are cheap skates and don't include all the cables you
> need.

The typical install is 1 drive, so they'd be throwing away their expense
for more cables. In fact, that they give you 2 cables means they are
already giving you a spare. There are other mobo headers for which they
don't supply cables, because they are little used, so also missing are:
extender cables in case those on your added fans are too short, extender
cables for the 24-pin power and GPU power cables in case you install the
mobo in a full tower which positions the mobo headers too far away from
the PSU, USB cables for internal USB headers on the mobo, backpanel case
blanks with USB connectors with cable to onboard USB headers for
external USB devices, a case blank with COM connector to COM port on
mobo, Thunderbolt blank with cable to connect to Thunderbolt header, and
so on. It's not their responsibility to provide cabling, blanks, or
other hardware in order to popuplate every header on the mobo.

Say you visit Aldi's (a grocery store) that has you slide a quarter into
the cart to use it. Do you slide in quarters into all the other carts
just in case you might need more carts? YOU are the builder. Up to YOU
to plan your build. Feel lucky they include any cables.

Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer

<ip26itF5jo6U1@mid.individual.net>

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From: ken@invalidemail.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 12:47:41 -0700
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In-Reply-To: <1nqeytiepxpm7$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>
 by: Ken Blake - Sun, 29 Aug 2021 19:47 UTC

On 8/29/2021 12:12 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Nothing came with CPU-cooler adhesive so I'm ordering a tube of one from
>> Amazon.
>
> Don't get adhesive (and don't get thermal strips). Get paste.

I'm not sure what the diffrence is between paste and adhesive. This is
what I ordered:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07HCDRL7W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Is that the wrong kind of stuff? Can you point to what I should get on
the Amazon web site?

--
Ken

Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer

<ip272nF5o2vU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: rlamont@shaw.ca (Rene Lamontagne)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 14:56:06 -0500
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 by: Rene Lamontagne - Sun, 29 Aug 2021 19:56 UTC

On 2021-08-29 2:34 p.m., VanguardLH wrote:
> Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 8/29/2021 9:11 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>> On 2021-08-29 10:59 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>> I ordered everything I said I would in my last message on the this
>>>> question. Everything I ordered is now here except for the motherboard.
>>>> Its delivery date has been upgraded again; it's now Sep 7.
>>>>
>>>> Nothing came with CPU-cooler adhesive so I'm ordering a tube of one from
>>>> Amazon.
>>>>
>>>> The motherboard presumably comes with two SATA cables (I'm going by the
>>>> picture on the Amazon web site), so it presumably has two SATA ports.
>>>> But I'll have 3 (maybe 4 SATA devices): two 2TB HDs, one CD/DVD, and
>>>> maybe also the SSD in the old computer.
>>>>
>>>> So am I right that I need to buy a SATA card to install more than two
>>>> SATA drives?
>>>>
>>>> I've also ordered an inexpensive three-pack of motherboard to SATA
>>>> cables ($5), but if I need to buy a SATA card, I don't know which one to
>>>> buy. There is a bunch of choices on
>>>> https://www.amazon.com/s?k=sata+card&crid=MKODR3I6BU39&sprefix=sata+card%2Caps%2C218&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_9
>>>>
>>>> at widely varying prices--$16-$70. I don't know how to choose; can
>>>> someone help?
>>>>
>>>> Anything else I might need?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ken, I have lost track of your last Post, Which M/B did you end up
>>> ordering? I an sure you must have about 6 Sata ports, but I will verify
>>> when I have your M/B model.
>>
>> Sorry, I should have put that in my message. It's the
>>
>> ASUS Prime Z590-P LGA 1200 (Intel 11th/10th Gen) ATX Motherboard (PCIe
>> 4.0, 10+1 Power Stages, 3X M.2, 2.5Gb LAN, Front Panel USB 3.2 Gen 2 USB
>> Type-C, Thunderbolt 4 Support)
>>
>> If it has 6 ports, that would be great.
>
> See my other post. Not all 6 may be concurrentl usable. There may be
> dependencies on what else you connect that lowers the useful count of
> the SATA ports.
>
> From pics of the ASUS Prime Z590-P, looks like just 4 SATA ports. From
> the pic at:
>
> https://dlcdnwebimgs.asus.com/gain/17aff855-1b28-4a7d-8ca1-9aaf8418b723/
>
> There is, at least, 1 m.2 slot, and it is inuse. You see it as the
> silver heatsink spanning the width of the mobo about half way and has
> "M.2 PCIe 4.0" printed on it. That likely means one of the SATA ports
> got consumed. In fact, from:

No, that is a blank heatsink covering that M.2 slot, the slot is not in
use, all 3 M.2 slots are available.

>
> https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/PRIME/PRIME-Z590-P/
>
> it says there are 3 m.2 slots. If you add another 2 NVMe m.2 SSD
> drives, you'll lose another 2 SATA ports, for a loss of 3 total. So,
> you could max out the m.2 slots to fully populate the mobo with 3 NVMe
> SSD drives, and you'll have left only 1 SATA mobo port.
>
> Under the tech specs at the above product page, it already notes, but
> just for the m.2_2 slot, "When a device in SATA mode is installed on the
> M.2_2 slot, SATA6G_2 port cannot be used." No mention if using the
> other m.2 slots usurps a SATA port each.
>
> The manuals are at:
>
> https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/PRIME/PRIME-Z590-P/HelpDesk_Manual/
>
> You should read them before getting the mobo. Actually, you should have
> read the manual before ordering the mobo. You find dependencies, like:
>
> m.2_1 slot is only usable with Intel 11th Gen CPUs that support PCIe
> 4.0x4 mode; else, that NVMe m.2 slot is disabled. Don't know what CPU
> you're getting with this mobo.
>
> m.2_2 slot usurps use of the SATA6G_2 header. You have to make a
> choice: add an m.2 NVMe SSD drive to m.2_2 and lose a SATA port, or use
> the SATA port and lose the m.2 slot.
>
> No dependency was mentioned for the m.2_3 slot, but it's not my mobo, or
> one that I would be considering for purchase, so I didn't thoroughly
> scan the manual.
>
> RTFM to be prepared for how you config your build. It's at:
>
> https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1200/PRIME_Z590-P/E17714_PRIME_Z590-P_UM_WEB.pdf
>
> There are other manuals for this mobo that you should also read. Know
> what you got, so you know how to build.
>

With one NVMe drive he may lose one or no sata port, depends which
slot is used, I can't say which one without reading the manual. On my
Asus Z390 I lose it if in M.2_1, but don't lose it if in M.2_2.

Rene

Rene

Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer

<ip285nF5u6cU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: ken@invalidemail.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 13:14:46 -0700
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In-Reply-To: <3huzl5zgcdrp$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>
 by: Ken Blake - Sun, 29 Aug 2021 20:14 UTC

On 8/29/2021 12:34 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 8/29/2021 9:11 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>> On 2021-08-29 10:59 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>> I ordered everything I said I would in my last message on the this
>>>> question. Everything I ordered is now here except for the motherboard.
>>>> Its delivery date has been upgraded again; it's now Sep 7.
>>>>
>>>> Nothing came with CPU-cooler adhesive so I'm ordering a tube of one from
>>>> Amazon.
>>>>
>>>> The motherboard presumably comes with two SATA cables (I'm going by the
>>>> picture on the Amazon web site), so it presumably has two SATA ports.
>>>> But I'll have 3 (maybe 4 SATA devices): two 2TB HDs, one CD/DVD, and
>>>> maybe also the SSD in the old computer.
>>>>
>>>> So am I right that I need to buy a SATA card to install more than two
>>>> SATA drives?
>>>>
>>>> I've also ordered an inexpensive three-pack of motherboard to SATA
>>>> cables ($5), but if I need to buy a SATA card, I don't know which one to
>>>> buy. There is a bunch of choices on
>>>> https://www.amazon.com/s?k=sata+card&crid=MKODR3I6BU39&sprefix=sata+card%2Caps%2C218&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_9
>>>>
>>>> at widely varying prices--$16-$70. I don't know how to choose; can
>>>> someone help?
>>>>
>>>> Anything else I might need?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ken, I have lost track of your last Post, Which M/B did you end up
>>> ordering? I an sure you must have about 6 Sata ports, but I will verify
>>> when I have your M/B model.
>>
>> Sorry, I should have put that in my message. It's the
>>
>> ASUS Prime Z590-P LGA 1200 (Intel 11th/10th Gen) ATX Motherboard (PCIe
>> 4.0, 10+1 Power Stages, 3X M.2, 2.5Gb LAN, Front Panel USB 3.2 Gen 2 USB
>> Type-C, Thunderbolt 4 Support)
>>
>> If it has 6 ports, that would be great.
>
> See my other post. Not all 6 may be concurrentl usable. There may be
> dependencies on what else you connect that lowers the useful count of
> the SATA ports.
>
> From pics of the ASUS Prime Z590-P, looks like just 4 SATA ports.

Since I don't know what SATA ports look like, I can't tell that there
are 4, but I'll believe you; you've also confirmed what Rene said.

Ignore that sentence. I just looked at the manual you provided a link to
and I see the four of them.

> From
> the pic at:
>
> https://dlcdnwebimgs.asus.com/gain/17aff855-1b28-4a7d-8ca1-9aaf8418b723/
>
> There is, at least, 1 m.2 slot, and it is inuse.

I'm confused. How could it be in use when nothing has been installed on
the MB yet.

> You see it as the
> silver heatsink spanning the width of the mobo about half way and has
> "M.2 PCIe 4.0" printed on it. That likely means one of the SATA ports
> got consumed. In fact, from:
>
> https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/PRIME/PRIME-Z590-P/
>
> it says there are 3 m.2 slots. If you add another 2 NVMe m.2 SSD
> drives, you'll lose another 2 SATA ports, for a loss of 3 total.

I'm adding one NVMe drive. Does that mean that only two of the SATA
ports are usable? How can I tell which are usable and which are not? If
only two are usable, since I need at least three and maybe four, then I
apparently need to buy a SATA card. Can you look at the amazon web page

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=sata+card&crid=MKODR3I6BU39&sprefix=sata+card%2Caps%2C218&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p

and recommend which one I should get?

> So,
> you could max out the m.2 slots to fully populate the mobo with 3 NVMe
> SSD drives, and you'll have left only 1 SATA mobo port.
>
> Under the tech specs at the above product page, it already notes, but
> just for the m.2_2 slot, "When a device in SATA mode is installed on the
> M.2_2 slot, SATA6G_2 port cannot be used." No mention if using the
> other m.2 slots usurps a SATA port each.

What does it mean for a device to be in SATA mode? How can I tell what
mode it is in? It's a Seagate Firecuda 520 2TB Performance Internal
Solid State Drive SSD PCIe Gen4 X4 NVMe 1.3

> The manuals are at:
>
> https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/PRIME/PRIME-Z590-P/HelpDesk_Manual/

THanks. I've downloaded it.

> You should read them before getting the mobo. Actually, you should have
> read the manual before ordering the mobo. You find dependencies, like:
>
> m.2_1 slot is only usable with Intel 11th Gen CPUs that support PCIe
> 4.0x4 mode; else, that NVMe m.2 slot is disabled. Don't know what CPU
> you're getting with this mobo.

i9-11900. It's 11th generation.

>
> m.2_2 slot usurps use of the SATA6G_2 header. You have to make a
> choice: add an m.2 NVMe SSD drive to m.2_2 and lose a SATA port, or use
> the SATA port and lose the m.2 slot.
>
> No dependency was mentioned for the m.2_3 slot, but it's not my mobo, or
> one that I would be considering for purchase, so I didn't thoroughly
> scan the manual.
>
> RTFM to be prepared for how you config your build. It's at:
>
> https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1200/PRIME_Z590-P/E17714_PRIME_Z590-P_UM_WEB.pdf
>
> There are other manuals for this mobo that you should also read. Know
> what you got, so you know how to build.

As I said a weak or so ago, hardware is my weak point. It always was and
it's worse now that I'm 83. I built a couple of computers several
decades ago, but I wouldn't try now. A good friend who is very proficent
with hardware is building it for me.

--
Ken

Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer

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Subject: Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer
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 by: Mayayana - Sun, 29 Aug 2021 20:15 UTC

"Ken Blake" <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote
| | Great, thanks very much. That's the ideal number for me. I should have
| looked there myself.
| Also this:

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/PRIME/PRIME-Z590-P/

You can see 4 SATA in the lower right. Though it's a surprisingly
poor photo. I used to buy a lot from TigerDirect and they'd have
clear color photos. I looked around and everyone's showing a B/W
photo. Very odd. Or maybe that's the latest gimmick -- to make
all parts of the MB black or silver. Here's the best photo I found:

https://c1.neweggimages.com/ProductImageCompressAll1280/13-119-372-01.jpg

Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer

<h4d2vnj9akyb.dlg@v.nguard.lh>

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From: V@nguard.LH (VanguardLH)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 16:08:37 -0500
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 by: VanguardLH - Sun, 29 Aug 2021 21:08 UTC

Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote:
>
>> Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Nothing came with CPU-cooler adhesive so I'm ordering a tube of one from
>>> Amazon.
>>
>> Don't get adhesive (and don't get thermal strips). Get paste.
>
> I'm not sure what the diffrence is between paste and adhesive. This is
> what I ordered:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07HCDRL7W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>
> Is that the wrong kind of stuff? Can you point to what I should get on
> the Amazon web site?

Very WRONG stuff. Do you really want to permanently epoxy the CPU to
the heatsink? If you later find you want a better HSF (heatsink+fan),
or temps are far higher because you globbed on the adhesive which means
no metal-to-metal contact anywhere, you'll end up tossing the CPU with
the HSF permanently attached, and have to start all over with a new CPU
and HSF. From what I recall, thermal adhesive is not as thermally
conductive as thermal paste. You want the most efficient transfer rate
of heat from CPU to HSF.

You don't want the CPU permanently adhered to the heatsink. The CPU
could go bad, and you need to replace it, but you'll have to buy a new
heatsink and fan (HSF). You might decide to get a better CPU (that is
compatible with the mobo). You might want to get a better HSF that if
more efficient and faster at cooling the CPU. Adhesive is used for
components that are not user servicable, like chips soldered onto the
motherboard that have small and usually passive heatsinks.

You want thermal paste. You don't need the most expensive stuff which
might give all of 1 to 3 C cooler temperature for the CPU (which is
important only for overclockers attempting to undo their overheating
settings), and some of the high end stuff is electrically conductive
(those that list silver as a component), so you need to make sure none
squeezes out to get onto the mobo. A ceramic paste is fine for you,
something like Arctic Silver Arctic Alumina (no silver in the paste,
just "Silver" is part of the "Arctic Silver" brand name), like:

https://www.newegg.com/arctic-silver-aa-1-75g/p/N82E16835100014?Item=9SIADUK5UE1554

You don't need a huge sized syringe, because you're not fabbing dozens
of builds. The little syringe is good for 3-5 applications, so you have
enough to apply, screw up, reapply, and later clean (using isopropyl
alchohol) to make changes, like when using a better HSF, or having to
replace the CPU. Just remember that you are not using the paste in lieu
of metal-to-metal contact. You are using the paste for where the bare
metals don't contact each other, including the microscopic gaps. I
small dollop in the center of the CPU, apply to CPU, use a plastic sheet
to evenly apply a shear coat across the CPU plate (already in the
socket), lay the HSF atop the CPU, twist the HSF, and move it up/down
and sideway about 1/8" to make sure the paste is evenly spread between
CPU and HSF. Metal-to-metal contact is best (and why some users will
lap the CPU's plate and heatsink), thermal paste is worse.

Worse than thermal paste is thermal tape. Looks like gray foam tape.
It doesn't stay that way, however, as it thermally transistions to a
semi-liquid. Under pressure (when HSF is clamped onto CPU), and with
heat (over time, not immediate), it partially liquifies, so hopefully it
isn't too thick, but it usually affords less metal-to-metal contact than
paste. Thermal tape is for noobs that haven't a clue how to apply
thermal paste, would apply it too thick, and make a mess on the mobo.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=thermal+paste+cpu

My opinion is most of those articles have the authors applying too much
paste, but I also lap the CPU and heatsink to allow much better
metal-to-metal contact over the entire surfaces of CPU and heatsink.
Some like the 5-dot method (each corner, 1 in the middle) or X-pattern
on the CPU, but usually that ends up with too much paste unless the dots
or stripes are very very small. You want it spread evenly but also very
thin.

Don't touch the CPU plate and heatsink mating surfaces with your fingers
as that leaves oils that will interfere with the paste. If you touch
those surfaces, clean with isopropyl alcohol. In fact, I do the
cleaning just before I install since possibly the maker or handler
touched those surfaces. You can't be sure they're clean unless you
clean them.

The small syringe will give you several applications, so you might want
to practice. After cleaning CPU and HSF, apply the paste on just one
surface (CPU while in socket is best), install the HSF onto the CPU,
twist and jiggle the HSF, and carefully remove (no twisting or sliding,
just straight up) to check the pattern of paste on both surfaces. That
will let you gauge how effective was your application. You want it thin
to be transparent across the entire CPU plate, and not gooped on in
thick clumps. The paste is to compensate for where metal mating is
imperfect, and mostly at the microscopic level (if that are pockets of
non-mating, you have to lap). It is NOT the primary choice for heat
transfer. Metal-to-metal is best. Noobs apply way too much paste.
They think the paste is supposed to do the heat transfer. Paste is far
better than air, but metal-to-metal is far better than paste.

By the way, no matter from where you buy, make sure the item does NOT
ship from China. That will take 45 days, or more, to ship due to the
delay from customs. Some Asian suppliers will stock products in
regional warehouses to let them ship from there which also means the
customs delay was incurred before the regional warehouse got stocked.
So, being an Asian supplier won't cause a customs delay if the items
says it was "shipped from <NotChina>". For example, for the above URL
on thermal paste, I first just searched on the product, but the one I
picked said "Shipped from China". I've dealt with that before with
super-long shipping delay caused by having to go from seller, through
customs, and then overseas to me. So, I picked another vendor that
"Ships from United States" (my region), so no delay through customs,
plus it was $4 cheaper than the "Ships from China" seller.

Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer

<au4mizkrksiv$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>

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From: V@nguard.LH (VanguardLH)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 16:11:30 -0500
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 by: VanguardLH - Sun, 29 Aug 2021 21:11 UTC

Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> wrote:

> On 2021-08-29 2:34 p.m., VanguardLH wrote:
>> Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/29/2021 9:11 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>>> On 2021-08-29 10:59 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>> I ordered everything I said I would in my last message on the this
>>>>> question. Everything I ordered is now here except for the motherboard.
>>>>> Its delivery date has been upgraded again; it's now Sep 7.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing came with CPU-cooler adhesive so I'm ordering a tube of one from
>>>>> Amazon.
>>>>>
>>>>> The motherboard presumably comes with two SATA cables (I'm going by the
>>>>> picture on the Amazon web site), so it presumably has two SATA ports.
>>>>> But I'll have 3 (maybe 4 SATA devices): two 2TB HDs, one CD/DVD, and
>>>>> maybe also the SSD in the old computer.
>>>>>
>>>>> So am I right that I need to buy a SATA card to install more than two
>>>>> SATA drives?
>>>>>
>>>>> I've also ordered an inexpensive three-pack of motherboard to SATA
>>>>> cables ($5), but if I need to buy a SATA card, I don't know which one to
>>>>> buy. There is a bunch of choices on
>>>>> https://www.amazon.com/s?k=sata+card&crid=MKODR3I6BU39&sprefix=sata+card%2Caps%2C218&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_9
>>>>>
>>>>> at widely varying prices--$16-$70. I don't know how to choose; can
>>>>> someone help?
>>>>>
>>>>> Anything else I might need?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ken, I have lost track of your last Post, Which M/B did you end up
>>>> ordering? I an sure you must have about 6 Sata ports, but I will verify
>>>> when I have your M/B model.
>>>
>>> Sorry, I should have put that in my message. It's the
>>>
>>> ASUS Prime Z590-P LGA 1200 (Intel 11th/10th Gen) ATX Motherboard (PCIe
>>> 4.0, 10+1 Power Stages, 3X M.2, 2.5Gb LAN, Front Panel USB 3.2 Gen 2 USB
>>> Type-C, Thunderbolt 4 Support)
>>>
>>> If it has 6 ports, that would be great.
>>
>> See my other post. Not all 6 may be concurrentl usable. There may be
>> dependencies on what else you connect that lowers the useful count of
>> the SATA ports.
>>
>> From pics of the ASUS Prime Z590-P, looks like just 4 SATA ports. From
>> the pic at:
>>
>> https://dlcdnwebimgs.asus.com/gain/17aff855-1b28-4a7d-8ca1-9aaf8418b723/
>>
>> There is, at least, 1 m.2 slot, and it is inuse. You see it as the
>> silver heatsink spanning the width of the mobo about half way and has
>> "M.2 PCIe 4.0" printed on it. That likely means one of the SATA ports
>> got consumed. In fact, from:
>
> No, that is a blank heatsink covering that M.2 slot, the slot is not in
> use, all 3 M.2 slots are available.
>
>>
>> https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/PRIME/PRIME-Z590-P/
>>
>> it says there are 3 m.2 slots. If you add another 2 NVMe m.2 SSD
>> drives, you'll lose another 2 SATA ports, for a loss of 3 total. So,
>> you could max out the m.2 slots to fully populate the mobo with 3 NVMe
>> SSD drives, and you'll have left only 1 SATA mobo port.
>>
>> Under the tech specs at the above product page, it already notes, but
>> just for the m.2_2 slot, "When a device in SATA mode is installed on the
>> M.2_2 slot, SATA6G_2 port cannot be used." No mention if using the
>> other m.2 slots usurps a SATA port each.
>>
>> The manuals are at:
>>
>> https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/PRIME/PRIME-Z590-P/HelpDesk_Manual/
>>
>> You should read them before getting the mobo. Actually, you should have
>> read the manual before ordering the mobo. You find dependencies, like:
>>
>> m.2_1 slot is only usable with Intel 11th Gen CPUs that support PCIe
>> 4.0x4 mode; else, that NVMe m.2 slot is disabled. Don't know what CPU
>> you're getting with this mobo.
>>
>> m.2_2 slot usurps use of the SATA6G_2 header. You have to make a
>> choice: add an m.2 NVMe SSD drive to m.2_2 and lose a SATA port, or use
>> the SATA port and lose the m.2 slot.
>>
>> No dependency was mentioned for the m.2_3 slot, but it's not my mobo, or
>> one that I would be considering for purchase, so I didn't thoroughly
>> scan the manual.
>>
>> RTFM to be prepared for how you config your build. It's at:
>>
>> https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1200/PRIME_Z590-P/E17714_PRIME_Z590-P_UM_WEB.pdf
>>
>> There are other manuals for this mobo that you should also read. Know
>> what you got, so you know how to build.
>>
>
> With one NVMe drive he may lose one or no sata port, depends which
> slot is used, I can't say which one without reading the manual. On my
> Asus Z390 I lose it if in M.2_1, but don't lose it if in M.2_2.
>
> Rene
>
> Rene

When the m.2 heatsink was included in the mobos that I've bought, it was
not pre-installed. It came in the parts bag. Maybe they pre-installed
the heatsink without a drive just to show what the mobo might look like.

Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer

<ip2bucF6k8dU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: rlamont@shaw.ca (Rene Lamontagne)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 16:19:09 -0500
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 by: Rene Lamontagne - Sun, 29 Aug 2021 21:19 UTC

On 2021-08-29 2:56 p.m., Rene Lamontagne wrote:
> On 2021-08-29 2:34 p.m., VanguardLH wrote:
>> Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/29/2021 9:11 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>>> On 2021-08-29 10:59 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>> I ordered everything I said I would in my last message on the this
>>>>> question. Everything I ordered is now here except for the motherboard.
>>>>> Its delivery date has been upgraded again; it's now Sep 7.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing came with CPU-cooler adhesive so I'm ordering a tube of one
>>>>> from
>>>>> Amazon.
>>>>>
>>>>> The motherboard presumably comes with two SATA cables (I'm going by
>>>>> the
>>>>> picture on the Amazon web site), so it presumably has two SATA ports.
>>>>> But I'll have 3 (maybe 4 SATA devices): two 2TB HDs, one CD/DVD, and
>>>>> maybe also the SSD in the old computer.
>>>>>
>>>>> So am I right that I need to buy a SATA card to install more than two
>>>>> SATA drives?
>>>>>
>>>>> I've also ordered an inexpensive three-pack of motherboard to SATA
>>>>> cables ($5), but if I need to buy a SATA card, I don't know which
>>>>> one to
>>>>> buy. There is a bunch of choices on
>>>>> https://www.amazon.com/s?k=sata+card&crid=MKODR3I6BU39&sprefix=sata+card%2Caps%2C218&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_9
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> at widely varying prices--$16-$70. I don't know how to choose; can
>>>>> someone help?
>>>>>
>>>>> Anything else I might need?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ken, I have lost track of your last Post, Which M/B did you end up
>>>> ordering? I an sure you must have about 6 Sata ports, but I will verify
>>>> when I have your M/B model.
>>>
>>> Sorry, I should have put that in my message. It's the
>>>
>>> ASUS Prime Z590-P LGA 1200 (Intel 11th/10th Gen) ATX Motherboard (PCIe
>>> 4.0, 10+1 Power Stages, 3X M.2, 2.5Gb LAN, Front Panel USB 3.2 Gen 2 USB
>>> Type-C, Thunderbolt 4 Support)
>>>
>>> If it has 6 ports, that would be great.
>>
>> See my other post.  Not all 6 may be concurrentl usable.  There may be
>> dependencies on what else you connect that lowers the useful count of
>> the SATA ports.
>>
>>  From pics of the ASUS Prime Z590-P, looks like just 4 SATA ports.  From
>> the pic at:
>>
>> https://dlcdnwebimgs.asus.com/gain/17aff855-1b28-4a7d-8ca1-9aaf8418b723/
>>
>> There is, at least, 1 m.2 slot, and it is inuse.  You see it as the
>> silver heatsink spanning the width of the mobo about half way and has
>> "M.2 PCIe 4.0" printed on it.  That likely means one of the SATA ports
>> got consumed.  In fact, from:
>
> No, that is a blank heatsink covering that M.2 slot, the slot is not in
> use, all 3 M.2  slots are available.
>
>>
>> https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/PRIME/PRIME-Z590-P/
>>
>>
>> it says there are 3 m.2 slots.  If you add another 2 NVMe m.2 SSD
>> drives, you'll lose another 2 SATA ports, for a loss of 3 total.  So,
>> you could max out the m.2 slots to fully populate the mobo with 3 NVMe
>> SSD drives, and you'll have left only 1 SATA mobo port.
>>
>> Under the tech specs at the above product page, it already notes, but
>> just for the m.2_2 slot, "When a device in SATA mode is installed on the
>> M.2_2 slot, SATA6G_2 port cannot be used."  No mention if using the
>> other m.2 slots usurps a SATA port each.
>>
>> The manuals are at:
>>
>> https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/PRIME/PRIME-Z590-P/HelpDesk_Manual/
>>
>>
>> You should read them before getting the mobo.  Actually, you should have
>> read the manual before ordering the mobo.  You find dependencies, like:
>>
>> m.2_1 slot is only usable with Intel 11th Gen CPUs that support PCIe
>> 4.0x4 mode; else, that NVMe m.2 slot is disabled.  Don't know what CPU
>> you're getting with this mobo.
>>
>> m.2_2 slot usurps use of the SATA6G_2 header.  You have to make a
>> choice: add an m.2 NVMe SSD drive to m.2_2 and lose a SATA port, or use
>> the SATA port and lose the m.2 slot.
>>
>> No dependency was mentioned for the m.2_3 slot, but it's not my mobo, or
>> one that I would be considering for purchase, so I didn't thoroughly
>> scan the manual.
>>
>> RTFM to be prepared for how you config your build.  It's at:
>>
>> https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1200/PRIME_Z590-P/E17714_PRIME_Z590-P_UM_WEB.pdf
>>
>>
>> There are other manuals for this mobo that you should also read.  Know
>> what you got, so you know how to build.
>>
>
> With one NVMe  drive he may lose one  or no sata port, depends which
> slot is used, I can't say which one without reading the manual. On my
> Asus Z390 I lose  it if in M.2_1, but don't lose it if in M.2_2.
>
> Rene
>
>
> Rene
>
>

Look at page 1-11 of the manual and note.

"When a device in SATA mode is installed on the M.2_2 slot, SATA6G_2
port cannot be used"

This is SATA mode, and does not apply tp PCIe drives, Youre NVMe drive
will be in PCIe mode so you should *not* lose that SATA port.

Again I say There is *no* device under that M.2 heatsink, that slot is
empty and free to use.

Rene

Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer

<ip2cflF6o6lU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: ken@invalidemail.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 14:28:21 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Sun, 29 Aug 2021 21:28 UTC

On 8/29/2021 2:08 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>
>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>
>>> Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nothing came with CPU-cooler adhesive so I'm ordering a tube of one from
>>>> Amazon.
>>>
>>> Don't get adhesive (and don't get thermal strips). Get paste.
>>
>> I'm not sure what the diffrence is between paste and adhesive. This is
>> what I ordered:
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07HCDRL7W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>>
>> Is that the wrong kind of stuff? Can you point to what I should get on
>> the Amazon web site?
>
> Very WRONG stuff. Do you really want to permanently epoxy the CPU to
> the heatsink? If you later find you want a better HSF (heatsink+fan),
> or temps are far higher because you globbed on the adhesive which means
> no metal-to-metal contact anywhere, you'll end up tossing the CPU with
> the HSF permanently attached, and have to start all over with a new CPU
> and HSF. From what I recall, thermal adhesive is not as thermally
> conductive as thermal paste. You want the most efficient transfer rate
> of heat from CPU to HSF.

Thanks very much. I canceled that order.

> You don't want the CPU permanently adhered to the heatsink. The CPU
> could go bad, and you need to replace it, but you'll have to buy a new
> heatsink and fan (HSF). You might decide to get a better CPU (that is
> compatible with the mobo). You might want to get a better HSF that if
> more efficient and faster at cooling the CPU. Adhesive is used for
> components that are not user servicable, like chips soldered onto the
> motherboard that have small and usually passive heatsinks.
>
> You want thermal paste. You don't need the most expensive stuff which
> might give all of 1 to 3 C cooler temperature for the CPU (which is
> important only for overclockers attempting to undo their overheating
> settings), and some of the high end stuff is electrically conductive
> (those that list silver as a component), so you need to make sure none
> squeezes out to get onto the mobo. A ceramic paste is fine for you,
> something like Arctic Silver Arctic Alumina (no silver in the paste,
> just "Silver" is part of the "Arctic Silver" brand name), like:
>
> https://www.newegg.com/arctic-silver-aa-1-75g/p/N82E16835100014?Item=9SIADUK5UE1554

Amazon didn't have that one, but I ordered Arctic Silver 5 AS5-3.5G
Thermal Paste. That's OK, I hope.

>
> You don't need a huge sized syringe, because you're not fabbing dozens
> of builds. The little syringe is good for 3-5 applications, so you have
> enough to apply, screw up, reapply, and later clean (using isopropyl
> alchohol) to make changes, like when using a better HSF, or having to
> replace the CPU. Just remember that you are not using the paste in lieu
> of metal-to-metal contact. You are using the paste for where the bare
> metals don't contact each other, including the microscopic gaps. I
> small dollop in the center of the CPU, apply to CPU, use a plastic sheet
> to evenly apply a shear coat across the CPU plate (already in the
> socket), lay the HSF atop the CPU, twist the HSF, and move it up/down
> and sideway about 1/8" to make sure the paste is evenly spread between
> CPU and HSF. Metal-to-metal contact is best (and why some users will
> lap the CPU's plate and heatsink), thermal paste is worse.
>
> Worse than thermal paste is thermal tape. Looks like gray foam tape.
> It doesn't stay that way, however, as it thermally transistions to a
> semi-liquid. Under pressure (when HSF is clamped onto CPU), and with
> heat (over time, not immediate), it partially liquifies, so hopefully it
> isn't too thick, but it usually affords less metal-to-metal contact than
> paste. Thermal tape is for noobs that haven't a clue how to apply
> thermal paste, would apply it too thick, and make a mess on the mobo.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=thermal+paste+cpu
>
> My opinion is most of those articles have the authors applying too much
> paste, but I also lap the CPU and heatsink to allow much better
> metal-to-metal contact over the entire surfaces of CPU and heatsink.
> Some like the 5-dot method (each corner, 1 in the middle) or X-pattern
> on the CPU, but usually that ends up with too much paste unless the dots
> or stripes are very very small. You want it spread evenly but also very
> thin.
>
> Don't touch the CPU plate and heatsink mating surfaces with your fingers
> as that leaves oils that will interfere with the paste. If you touch
> those surfaces, clean with isopropyl alcohol. In fact, I do the
> cleaning just before I install since possibly the maker or handler
> touched those surfaces. You can't be sure they're clean unless you
> clean them.
>
> The small syringe will give you several applications, so you might want
> to practice. After cleaning CPU and HSF, apply the paste on just one
> surface (CPU while in socket is best), install the HSF onto the CPU,
> twist and jiggle the HSF, and carefully remove (no twisting or sliding,
> just straight up) to check the pattern of paste on both surfaces. That
> will let you gauge how effective was your application. You want it thin
> to be transparent across the entire CPU plate, and not gooped on in
> thick clumps. The paste is to compensate for where metal mating is
> imperfect, and mostly at the microscopic level (if that are pockets of
> non-mating, you have to lap). It is NOT the primary choice for heat
> transfer. Metal-to-metal is best. Noobs apply way too much paste.
> They think the paste is supposed to do the heat transfer. Paste is far
> better than air, but metal-to-metal is far better than paste.
>
> By the way, no matter from where you buy, make sure the item does NOT
> ship from China.

I orderd from Amazon. It should arrive Wednesdy.

> That will take 45 days, or more, to ship due to the
> delay from customs. Some Asian suppliers will stock products in
> regional warehouses to let them ship from there which also means the
> customs delay was incurred before the regional warehouse got stocked.
> So, being an Asian supplier won't cause a customs delay if the items
> says it was "shipped from <NotChina>". For example, for the above URL
> on thermal paste, I first just searched on the product, but the one I
> picked said "Shipped from China". I've dealt with that before with
> super-long shipping delay caused by having to go from seller, through
> customs, and then overseas to me. So, I picked another vendor that
> "Ships from United States" (my region), so no delay through customs,
> plus it was $4 cheaper than the "Ships from China" seller.
>

--
Ken

Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer

<ip2ck7F6o6lU2@mid.individual.net>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=54038&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#54038

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From: ken@invalidemail.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 14:30:47 -0700
Lines: 112
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In-Reply-To: <ip272nF5o2vU1@mid.individual.net>
 by: Ken Blake - Sun, 29 Aug 2021 21:30 UTC

On 8/29/2021 12:56 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
> On 2021-08-29 2:34 p.m., VanguardLH wrote:
>> Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/29/2021 9:11 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>>> On 2021-08-29 10:59 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>> I ordered everything I said I would in my last message on the this
>>>>> question. Everything I ordered is now here except for the motherboard.
>>>>> Its delivery date has been upgraded again; it's now Sep 7.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing came with CPU-cooler adhesive so I'm ordering a tube of one from
>>>>> Amazon.
>>>>>
>>>>> The motherboard presumably comes with two SATA cables (I'm going by the
>>>>> picture on the Amazon web site), so it presumably has two SATA ports.
>>>>> But I'll have 3 (maybe 4 SATA devices): two 2TB HDs, one CD/DVD, and
>>>>> maybe also the SSD in the old computer.
>>>>>
>>>>> So am I right that I need to buy a SATA card to install more than two
>>>>> SATA drives?
>>>>>
>>>>> I've also ordered an inexpensive three-pack of motherboard to SATA
>>>>> cables ($5), but if I need to buy a SATA card, I don't know which one to
>>>>> buy. There is a bunch of choices on
>>>>> https://www.amazon.com/s?k=sata+card&crid=MKODR3I6BU39&sprefix=sata+card%2Caps%2C218&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_9
>>>>>
>>>>> at widely varying prices--$16-$70. I don't know how to choose; can
>>>>> someone help?
>>>>>
>>>>> Anything else I might need?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ken, I have lost track of your last Post, Which M/B did you end up
>>>> ordering? I an sure you must have about 6 Sata ports, but I will verify
>>>> when I have your M/B model.
>>>
>>> Sorry, I should have put that in my message. It's the
>>>
>>> ASUS Prime Z590-P LGA 1200 (Intel 11th/10th Gen) ATX Motherboard (PCIe
>>> 4.0, 10+1 Power Stages, 3X M.2, 2.5Gb LAN, Front Panel USB 3.2 Gen 2 USB
>>> Type-C, Thunderbolt 4 Support)
>>>
>>> If it has 6 ports, that would be great.
>>
>> See my other post. Not all 6 may be concurrentl usable. There may be
>> dependencies on what else you connect that lowers the useful count of
>> the SATA ports.
>>
>> From pics of the ASUS Prime Z590-P, looks like just 4 SATA ports. From
>> the pic at:
>>
>> https://dlcdnwebimgs.asus.com/gain/17aff855-1b28-4a7d-8ca1-9aaf8418b723/
>>
>> There is, at least, 1 m.2 slot, and it is inuse. You see it as the
>> silver heatsink spanning the width of the mobo about half way and has
>> "M.2 PCIe 4.0" printed on it. That likely means one of the SATA ports
>> got consumed. In fact, from:
>
> No, that is a blank heatsink covering that M.2 slot, the slot is not in
> use, all 3 M.2 slots are available.
>
>>
>> https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/PRIME/PRIME-Z590-P/
>>
>> it says there are 3 m.2 slots. If you add another 2 NVMe m.2 SSD
>> drives, you'll lose another 2 SATA ports, for a loss of 3 total. So,
>> you could max out the m.2 slots to fully populate the mobo with 3 NVMe
>> SSD drives, and you'll have left only 1 SATA mobo port.
>>
>> Under the tech specs at the above product page, it already notes, but
>> just for the m.2_2 slot, "When a device in SATA mode is installed on the
>> M.2_2 slot, SATA6G_2 port cannot be used." No mention if using the
>> other m.2 slots usurps a SATA port each.
>>
>> The manuals are at:
>>
>> https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/PRIME/PRIME-Z590-P/HelpDesk_Manual/
>>
>> You should read them before getting the mobo. Actually, you should have
>> read the manual before ordering the mobo. You find dependencies, like:
>>
>> m.2_1 slot is only usable with Intel 11th Gen CPUs that support PCIe
>> 4.0x4 mode; else, that NVMe m.2 slot is disabled. Don't know what CPU
>> you're getting with this mobo.
>>
>> m.2_2 slot usurps use of the SATA6G_2 header. You have to make a
>> choice: add an m.2 NVMe SSD drive to m.2_2 and lose a SATA port, or use
>> the SATA port and lose the m.2 slot.
>>
>> No dependency was mentioned for the m.2_3 slot, but it's not my mobo, or
>> one that I would be considering for purchase, so I didn't thoroughly
>> scan the manual.
>>
>> RTFM to be prepared for how you config your build. It's at:
>>
>> https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1200/PRIME_Z590-P/E17714_PRIME_Z590-P_UM_WEB.pdf
>>
>> There are other manuals for this mobo that you should also read. Know
>> what you got, so you know how to build.
>>
>
> With one NVMe drive he may lose one or no sata port, depends which
> slot is used, I can't say which one without reading the manual. On my
> Asus Z390 I lose it if in M.2_1, but don't lose it if in M.2_2.

So I should have either 3 or 4 SATA slots usable. Thanks again.

--
Ken

Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer

<ip2clqF6o6lU3@mid.individual.net>

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From: ken@invalidemail.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 14:31:38 -0700
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In-Reply-To: <ip2bucF6k8dU1@mid.individual.net>
 by: Ken Blake - Sun, 29 Aug 2021 21:31 UTC

On 8/29/2021 2:19 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
> On 2021-08-29 2:56 p.m., Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>> On 2021-08-29 2:34 p.m., VanguardLH wrote:
>>> Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/29/2021 9:11 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>>>> On 2021-08-29 10:59 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>> I ordered everything I said I would in my last message on the this
>>>>>> question. Everything I ordered is now here except for the motherboard.
>>>>>> Its delivery date has been upgraded again; it's now Sep 7.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nothing came with CPU-cooler adhesive so I'm ordering a tube of one
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> Amazon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The motherboard presumably comes with two SATA cables (I'm going by
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> picture on the Amazon web site), so it presumably has two SATA ports.
>>>>>> But I'll have 3 (maybe 4 SATA devices): two 2TB HDs, one CD/DVD, and
>>>>>> maybe also the SSD in the old computer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So am I right that I need to buy a SATA card to install more than two
>>>>>> SATA drives?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've also ordered an inexpensive three-pack of motherboard to SATA
>>>>>> cables ($5), but if I need to buy a SATA card, I don't know which
>>>>>> one to
>>>>>> buy. There is a bunch of choices on
>>>>>> https://www.amazon.com/s?k=sata+card&crid=MKODR3I6BU39&sprefix=sata+card%2Caps%2C218&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_9
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> at widely varying prices--$16-$70. I don't know how to choose; can
>>>>>> someone help?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anything else I might need?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ken, I have lost track of your last Post, Which M/B did you end up
>>>>> ordering? I an sure you must have about 6 Sata ports, but I will verify
>>>>> when I have your M/B model.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, I should have put that in my message. It's the
>>>>
>>>> ASUS Prime Z590-P LGA 1200 (Intel 11th/10th Gen) ATX Motherboard (PCIe
>>>> 4.0, 10+1 Power Stages, 3X M.2, 2.5Gb LAN, Front Panel USB 3.2 Gen 2 USB
>>>> Type-C, Thunderbolt 4 Support)
>>>>
>>>> If it has 6 ports, that would be great.
>>>
>>> See my other post.  Not all 6 may be concurrentl usable.  There may be
>>> dependencies on what else you connect that lowers the useful count of
>>> the SATA ports.
>>>
>>>  From pics of the ASUS Prime Z590-P, looks like just 4 SATA ports.  From
>>> the pic at:
>>>
>>> https://dlcdnwebimgs.asus.com/gain/17aff855-1b28-4a7d-8ca1-9aaf8418b723/
>>>
>>> There is, at least, 1 m.2 slot, and it is inuse.  You see it as the
>>> silver heatsink spanning the width of the mobo about half way and has
>>> "M.2 PCIe 4.0" printed on it.  That likely means one of the SATA ports
>>> got consumed.  In fact, from:
>>
>> No, that is a blank heatsink covering that M.2 slot, the slot is not in
>> use, all 3 M.2  slots are available.
>>
>>>
>>> https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/PRIME/PRIME-Z590-P/
>>>
>>>
>>> it says there are 3 m.2 slots.  If you add another 2 NVMe m.2 SSD
>>> drives, you'll lose another 2 SATA ports, for a loss of 3 total.  So,
>>> you could max out the m.2 slots to fully populate the mobo with 3 NVMe
>>> SSD drives, and you'll have left only 1 SATA mobo port.
>>>
>>> Under the tech specs at the above product page, it already notes, but
>>> just for the m.2_2 slot, "When a device in SATA mode is installed on the
>>> M.2_2 slot, SATA6G_2 port cannot be used."  No mention if using the
>>> other m.2 slots usurps a SATA port each.
>>>
>>> The manuals are at:
>>>
>>> https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/PRIME/PRIME-Z590-P/HelpDesk_Manual/
>>>
>>>
>>> You should read them before getting the mobo.  Actually, you should have
>>> read the manual before ordering the mobo.  You find dependencies, like:
>>>
>>> m.2_1 slot is only usable with Intel 11th Gen CPUs that support PCIe
>>> 4.0x4 mode; else, that NVMe m.2 slot is disabled.  Don't know what CPU
>>> you're getting with this mobo.
>>>
>>> m.2_2 slot usurps use of the SATA6G_2 header.  You have to make a
>>> choice: add an m.2 NVMe SSD drive to m.2_2 and lose a SATA port, or use
>>> the SATA port and lose the m.2 slot.
>>>
>>> No dependency was mentioned for the m.2_3 slot, but it's not my mobo, or
>>> one that I would be considering for purchase, so I didn't thoroughly
>>> scan the manual.
>>>
>>> RTFM to be prepared for how you config your build.  It's at:
>>>
>>> https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1200/PRIME_Z590-P/E17714_PRIME_Z590-P_UM_WEB.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>> There are other manuals for this mobo that you should also read.  Know
>>> what you got, so you know how to build.
>>>
>>
>> With one NVMe  drive he may lose one  or no sata port, depends which
>> slot is used, I can't say which one without reading the manual. On my
>> Asus Z390 I lose  it if in M.2_1, but don't lose it if in M.2_2.
>>
>> Rene
>>
>>
>> Rene
>>
>>
>
> Look at page 1-11 of the manual and note.
>
> "When a device in SATA mode is installed on the M.2_2 slot, SATA6G_2
> port cannot be used"
>
> This is SATA mode, and does not apply tp PCIe drives, Youre NVMe drive
> will be in PCIe mode so you should *not* lose that SATA port.

Great. So I have all four!

> Again I say There is *no* device under that M.2 heatsink, that slot is
> empty and free to use.
>
> Rene
>
>
>

--
Ken

Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer

<fzu2p53ox5sh.dlg@v.nguard.lh>

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From: V@nguard.LH (VanguardLH)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 17:12:17 -0500
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 by: VanguardLH - Sun, 29 Aug 2021 22:12 UTC

Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote:
>
>> https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/PRIME/PRIME-Z590-P/
>>
>> it says there are 3 m.2 slots. If you add another 2 NVMe m.2 SSD
>> drives, you'll lose another 2 SATA ports, for a loss of 3 total.
>
> I'm adding one NVMe drive. Does that mean that only two of the SATA
> ports are usable? How can I tell which are usable and which are not? If
> only two are usable, since I need at least three and maybe four, then I
> apparently need to buy a SATA card. Can you look at the amazon web page

That was before I bothered to read the manual for you.

> https://www.amazon.com/s?k=sata+card&crid=MKODR3I6BU39&sprefix=sata+card%2Caps%2C218&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p
> and recommend which one I should get?

Are you going to use onboard video? Or use up the PCIx16 slots for 1 or
2 video cards? The mobo has 2 PCIx16 (16 lane) card slots. You might
use them both in a dual-card SLI config. Or you might just use one of
them for a single mobo. I've never felt the need to go dual video
cards, so I've only had a single video card in my builds. Which slots
you have available depends on your config.

The other slots are PCIx1 (1 lane). Yet the SATA daughtercards you
listed at the URL have 4 SATA ports. That means all 4 ports will need
to share bandwidth across a single lane. If you connect more than 1
SATA device to the 1-lane card, the inuse SATA ports will not achieve
their maximum performance. They have to share. However, sharing might
not be so bad considering what devices you connect to those ports.

If you want another drive, you'll probably go with another m.2 NVMe SSD
(in the m.2_3 slot). If you connect just 1 SSD SATA drive (say, in the
case's drive cage, although some have a backside mount under the mobo),
you're not sharing the SATA card's 1 lane with another device. If you
add 2, or more, internal SATA devices to that card, they have to share
the 1 lane. Whether that impacts their overall performance depends on
how you use those drives. If you copy files from one drive to another,
and both are on that SATA daughtercard, they compete for bandwidth. If
you use one drive at a time that is concurrently connected to the SATA
daughtercard, they aren't having to share bandwidth.

That mobo has limited expandability. Your choices for card slots is
PCIex16, or PCIex1. Not PCIex4 choice.

If you use onboard video (a shame to degrade when all the rest of the
hardware is great), you'll have 2 PCIx16 card lots available. If you
only add 1 video card to consume one of the two PCIx16 slots, you'll
still have a PCIx16 slot left, and the PCIex1 slots, too. If you want
full speed with independent channels for each SATA port, and with a
4-port SATA card, you need to get a PCI-e x4 controller card. That
means you need a PCIeX4 card slot, and you don't have any. So, you'll
be stuck with a PCIeX1 card that has to share the channel across however
many drives are concurrently plugged into the card.

As for the choices your URL lists, I stick with name brands although the
generics and brands often use the same components (but manufacture
quality can vary a lot) - with the exception of Rosewill who have proven
unreliable for supporting SATA. I like a lot of Rosewill products, but
have mostly had problems with anything SATA from them. Not all, but too
many to waste my time with Rosewill SATA anything. Also, I would modify
your Amazon search to add PCI-e x1 since you cannot use any other type
of mobo slot (and PCI-e x16, the only other slot type you have, would be
way overkill and high priced, assuming you can find one, and in stock).

You have: 2 PCIex16 card slots, 2 PCIex1 card slots, no PCIex4 slots.
You'll want to reserve the PCIeX16 card slots for video.
That leaves you with just the 2 PCIeX1 card slots.
Anything more than 1 SATA port on a daughtercard means channel sharing.
Sharing could mean less SATA performance per device.
Perforance degradation due to sharing depends on use of the devices.
Concurrent use means performance degradation.
Use of one SATA device at a time means no sharing.
Performance degradation may not even be noticable to you.

Say you run backups which are scheduled when you aren't at the computer.
The backup jobs both do a clone (mirroring) to one drive while saving
backup files to another drive. The backup program will only do one job
at a time, like first cloning and then saving image files. The drives
are written to independently, and nonconcurrently, so no sharing.
Versus video coding that has you use 2 drives on the SATA controller, or
sync jobs that read from one drive to write to another, and both are on
the same SATA controller having to share bandwidth.

At this point, if you use the m.2_1 NVMe SATA SSD mobo slot, and with an
11th gen Intel CPU, you won't lose any onboard SATA ports. But it's
possible I missed something. I'd be more motivated to research if it
were my build.

>> Under the tech specs at the above product page, it already notes, but
>> just for the m.2_2 slot, "When a device in SATA mode is installed on the
>> M.2_2 slot, SATA6G_2 port cannot be used." No mention if using the
>> other m.2 slots usurps a SATA port each.
>
> What does it mean for a device to be in SATA mode? How can I tell what
> mode it is in? It's a Seagate Firecuda 520 2TB Performance Internal
> Solid State Drive SSD PCIe Gen4 X4 NVMe 1.3

When the seller doesn't give the specs, check if the product maker does.

https://www.seagate.com/www-content/datasheets/pdfs/firecuda-520-ssd-DS2024-1-1909US-en_US.pdf

Since it supports PCIe 4.0x4, and with the correct CPU, you can use it
in the m.2_1 slot without having to usurp a SATA port. I'd have to dig
into the mobo's manual to see if it describes all the UEFI settings to
know if the user has a choice for the m.2_1 slot. I suspect you just
leave it as pre-configured from the factory which probably has it detect
how to best support that drive.

https://www.trentonsystems.com/blog/pcie-gen4-vs-gen3-slots-speeds

With the CPU you got, you should use the m.2_1 slot, and leave the m.2_2
slot alone until and if you added another m.2 drive. However, if you
later add another m.2 drive, I'd start with the m.2_3 slot.

>> m.2_1 slot is only usable with Intel 11th Gen CPUs that support PCIe
>> 4.0x4 mode; else, that NVMe m.2 slot is disabled. Don't know what CPU
>> you're getting with this mobo.
>
> i9-11900. It's 11th generation.

With that CPU, you can install the m.2 NVMe SSD drive into the m.2_1
slot without losing a SATA port.

No matter what CPU you have, using the m.2_2 slot means losing a SATA
port. They say nothing about bandwidth sharing for the m.2_3 port, so
if you add another m.2 drive sometime later, start first with the m.2_3
slot.

Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer

<sgh344$c6i$1@dont-email.me>

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From: nospam@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 18:52:53 -0400
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In-Reply-To: <ip2cflF6o6lU1@mid.individual.net>
 by: Paul - Sun, 29 Aug 2021 22:52 UTC

Ken Blake wrote:

> Amazon didn't have that one, but I ordered Arctic Silver 5 AS5-3.5G
> Thermal Paste. That's OK, I hope.

I'm still using the tube of AS3 I got a long time ago :-)

It probably separates a bit after 10 years :-)

Your builder will know about that stuff, and
calibrating the application of it, so it does
not ooze out. You put the heatsink on twice.
The first time, you use less than the amount
you expect is needed, compress the heatsink into
it, then take it apart and see how large a coin-shaped
image it created on the heatsink. Then, wipe it off,
and apply sufficient to make the material ooze out
to the edge, without an excess going all over the
place. Processors with TIM inside are flat. Processors
with soldered lids are convex. The amount of
spread of a rice grain of AS, varies with the
shape of the processor you're working with. I
think yours is likely flat as a pancake.

If done properly, and you review with an inspection
mirror (dental mirror), you can make an Oreo cookie
with the paste, without excess filling showing. You
should be able to see the white of the AS, but not
so much of it that it runs all over the place. You
don't want the joint so dry, you can't see any AS
present. There should be a definite presence of
AS showing all around the edge when you inspect.

Whatever you do, don't get that stuff all over
the LGA1200 contacts.

There is also a two component cleaner available.
You might keep one of those kits handy, if you
were a "butter fingers". If you get paste all
over the place on projects like this, then a
kit like this would be handy.

https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=ACN-60ML

Paul

Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer

<ip2hn3F7m9gU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: ken@invalidemail.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Update and Another Question About My New Computer
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 15:57:39 -0700
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In-Reply-To: <fzu2p53ox5sh.dlg@v.nguard.lh>
 by: Ken Blake - Sun, 29 Aug 2021 22:57 UTC

On 8/29/2021 3:12 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>
>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/PRIME/PRIME-Z590-P/
>>>
>>> it says there are 3 m.2 slots. If you add another 2 NVMe m.2 SSD
>>> drives, you'll lose another 2 SATA ports, for a loss of 3 total.
>>
>> I'm adding one NVMe drive. Does that mean that only two of the SATA
>> ports are usable? How can I tell which are usable and which are not? If
>> only two are usable, since I need at least three and maybe four, then I
>> apparently need to buy a SATA card. Can you look at the amazon web page
>
> That was before I bothered to read the manual for you.
>
>> https://www.amazon.com/s?k=sata+card&crid=MKODR3I6BU39&sprefix=sata+card%2Caps%2C218&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p
>> and recommend which one I should get?
>
> Are you going to use onboard video? Or use up the PCIx16 slots for 1 or
> 2 video cards? The mobo has 2 PCIx16 (16 lane) card slots. You might
> use them both in a dual-card SLI config. Or you might just use one of
> them for a single mobo. I've never felt the need to go dual video
> cards, so I've only had a single video card in my builds. Which slots
> you have available depends on your config.
>
> The other slots are PCIx1 (1 lane). Yet the SATA daughtercards you
> listed at the URL have 4 SATA ports. That means all 4 ports will need
> to share bandwidth across a single lane. If you connect more than 1
> SATA device to the 1-lane card, the inuse SATA ports will not achieve
> their maximum performance. They have to share. However, sharing might
> not be so bad considering what devices you connect to those ports.
>
> If you want another drive, you'll probably go with another m.2 NVMe SSD
> (in the m.2_3 slot). If you connect just 1 SSD SATA drive (say, in the
> case's drive cage, although some have a backside mount under the mobo),
> you're not sharing the SATA card's 1 lane with another device. If you
> add 2, or more, internal SATA devices to that card, they have to share
> the 1 lane. Whether that impacts their overall performance depends on
> how you use those drives. If you copy files from one drive to another,
> and both are on that SATA daughtercard, they compete for bandwidth. If
> you use one drive at a time that is concurrently connected to the SATA
> daughtercard, they aren't having to share bandwidth.
>
> That mobo has limited expandability. Your choices for card slots is
> PCIex16, or PCIex1. Not PCIex4 choice.
>
> If you use onboard video (a shame to degrade when all the rest of the
> hardware is great),

Yes, I'll use onboard video. Since I don't play any compueter games,
that should be fine for me. Onboard video is what I use for my current
i5 Windows 10 computer, and I've never felt the need for anything faster.

> you'll have 2 PCIx16 card lots available. If you
> only add 1 video card to consume one of the two PCIx16 slots, you'll
> still have a PCIx16 slot left, and the PCIex1 slots, too. If you want
> full speed with independent channels for each SATA port, and with a
> 4-port SATA card, you need to get a PCI-e x4 controller card. That
> means you need a PCIeX4 card slot, and you don't have any. So, you'll
> be stuck with a PCIeX1 card that has to share the channel across however
> many drives are concurrently plugged into the card.
>
> As for the choices your URL lists, I stick with name brands although the
> generics and brands often use the same components (but manufacture
> quality can vary a lot) - with the exception of Rosewill who have proven
> unreliable for supporting SATA. I like a lot of Rosewill products, but
> have mostly had problems with anything SATA from them. Not all, but too
> many to waste my time with Rosewill SATA anything. Also, I would modify
> your Amazon search to add PCI-e x1 since you cannot use any other type
> of mobo slot (and PCI-e x16, the only other slot type you have, would be
> way overkill and high priced, assuming you can find one, and in stock).

Thanks, but it appears that I won't need a SATA card.

>
> You have: 2 PCIex16 card slots, 2 PCIex1 card slots, no PCIex4 slots.
> You'll want to reserve the PCIeX16 card slots for video.
> That leaves you with just the 2 PCIeX1 card slots.
> Anything more than 1 SATA port on a daughtercard means channel sharing.
> Sharing could mean less SATA performance per device.
> Perforance degradation due to sharing depends on use of the devices.
> Concurrent use means performance degradation.
> Use of one SATA device at a time means no sharing.
> Performance degradation may not even be noticable to you.
>
> Say you run backups which are scheduled when you aren't at the computer.
> The backup jobs both do a clone (mirroring) to one drive while saving
> backup files to another drive. The backup program will only do one job
> at a time, like first cloning and then saving image files. The drives
> are written to independently, and nonconcurrently, so no sharing.
> Versus video coding that has you use 2 drives on the SATA controller, or
> sync jobs that read from one drive to write to another, and both are on
> the same SATA controller having to share bandwidth.
>
> At this point, if you use the m.2_1 NVMe SATA SSD mobo slot, and with an
> 11th gen Intel CPU, you won't lose any onboard SATA ports.

Right. I don't think I'll I need to, but if necessary I can always buy a
SATA card later.

> But it's
> possible I missed something. I'd be more motivated to research if it
> were my build.
>
>>> Under the tech specs at the above product page, it already notes, but
>>> just for the m.2_2 slot, "When a device in SATA mode is installed on the
>>> M.2_2 slot, SATA6G_2 port cannot be used." No mention if using the
>>> other m.2 slots usurps a SATA port each.
>>
>> What does it mean for a device to be in SATA mode? How can I tell what
>> mode it is in? It's a Seagate Firecuda 520 2TB Performance Internal
>> Solid State Drive SSD PCIe Gen4 X4 NVMe 1.3
>
> When the seller doesn't give the specs, check if the product maker does.
>
> https://www.seagate.com/www-content/datasheets/pdfs/firecuda-520-ssd-DS2024-1-1909US-en_US.pdf
>
> Since it supports PCIe 4.0x4, and with the correct CPU, you can use it
> in the m.2_1 slot without having to usurp a SATA port. I'd have to dig
> into the mobo's manual to see if it describes all the UEFI settings to
> know if the user has a choice for the m.2_1 slot. I suspect you just
> leave it as pre-configured from the factory which probably has it detect
> how to best support that drive.
>
> https://www.trentonsystems.com/blog/pcie-gen4-vs-gen3-slots-speeds
>
> With the CPU you got, you should use the m.2_1 slot, and leave the m.2_2
> slot alone until and if you added another m.2 drive. However, if you
> later add another m.2 drive, I'd start with the m.2_3 slot.
>
>>> m.2_1 slot is only usable with Intel 11th Gen CPUs that support PCIe
>>> 4.0x4 mode; else, that NVMe m.2 slot is disabled. Don't know what CPU
>>> you're getting with this mobo.
>>
>> i9-11900. It's 11th generation.
>
> With that CPU, you can install the m.2 NVMe SSD drive into the m.2_1
> slot without losing a SATA port.
>
> No matter what CPU you have, using the m.2_2 slot means losing a SATA
> port. They say nothing about bandwidth sharing for the m.2_3 port, so
> if you add another m.2 drive sometime later, start first with the m.2_3
> slot.

It's unlikely that I will, but who knows what the future will bring.

Thanks again for all your advice.

--
Ken

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