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computers / alt.comp.os.windows-10 / New Hardware

SubjectAuthor
* New Hardwarephilo
`* Re: New HardwarePaul
 `* Re: New Hardwarephilo
  `* Re: New HardwarePaul
   `* Re: New Hardwarephilo
    +* Re: New HardwarePaul
    |`- Re: New Hardwarephilo
    `* Re: New HardwareSilverSlimer
     +* Re: New Hardwarephilo
     |`* Re: New HardwareSilverSlimer
     | `- Re: New Hardwarephilo
     `* Re: New HardwarePeter Johnson
      `* Re: New HardwareSilverSlimer
       `- Re: New HardwarePeter Johnson

1
New Hardware

<3287bebb629993f3381ee22bec8b017a@news.novabbs.com>

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From: philo@news.novabbs.com (philo)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: New Hardware
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 00:18:10 +0000
Organization: novaBBS
Message-ID: <3287bebb629993f3381ee22bec8b017a@news.novabbs.com>
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 by: philo - Fri, 27 Aug 2021 00:18 UTC

I've been repairing computers for years and often have to upgrade motherboards. I've never had a problem re-activating Win10 until recently.

With a new mobo, the Win10 drive would not re-activate, even with a new key.
Since there was not a lot of data to back up, I did so, then did a clean install and all was well.

It's running much better so that wasn't a bad thing...just curious.

All I can think of is that the Win10 install had been an upgrade from Win7.

Re: New Hardware

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From: nospam@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: New Hardware
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 03:38:37 -0400
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 by: Paul - Fri, 27 Aug 2021 07:38 UTC

philo wrote:
> I've been repairing computers for years and often have to upgrade
> motherboards. I've never had a problem re-activating Win10 until recently.
>
> With a new mobo, the Win10 drive would not re-activate, even with a new
> key.
> Since there was not a lot of data to back up, I did so, then did a clean
> install and all was well.
>
> It's running much better so that wasn't a bad thing...just curious.
>
> All I can think of is that the Win10 install had been an upgrade from Win7.

Record of Reinstall <any> to
Activation on same HW diff HW
at MS

Boxed-software ---------- Automatic ProduKey
or use Key before install

Win7SP1 free upgrade ---- Automatic MSA transfer
or Win7 key

Win8.1 free upgrade ----- Automatic MSA transfer
or Win8.1 key

What this means, is for a forensic archaeologist
such as yourself, you run ProduKey before any
procedure, and write the key down somewhere. In
a previous era, we used MagicJellyBean. One of these
utilities, has the capability to list both the
current key, as well as the qualifying ("previous")
key. And I think it will also sniff "offline" C: partitions
for their details. That's the kind of utility you want
to hold in your hand, is one that "lists everything".

https://www.nirsoft.net/utils/product_cd_key_viewer.html

# offline sniff
produkey.exe /regfile "F:\WINNT\system32\config\software"

# tabular list, to stdout, then redirected...
produkey.exe /stab "" >> c:\temp\prd.txt

# Just the Windows keys, as a web page, stored in specific file.
# Only C: is scanned, as if you'd typed /regfile "C:\Windows\system32\config\software"
produkey.exe /OfficeKeys 0 /WindowsKeys 1 /shtml f:\temp\keys.html

OK, this is the one that shows the Win7 key, as well as the Win10 bogus key.
For my Acer laptop, it showed both (I reinstalled Win7 from the COA sticker,
plus put Win10 over top).

https://www.techspot.com/downloads/7129-showkeyplus.html

(I can't get the Download working right now...)

(Looks like this)

https://i.postimg.cc/9FRBdSR6/fun-with-Win10-keys.gif

For the two words "Automatic" by themselves, the listed
key is "bogus". These keys, if ProduKey coughs them up,
cannot be typed into the "key entry" line while you
are installing. These indicate that the real activation
information is stored on the Microsoft end, and not on the
PC. However, the qualifying key (W7/W8) for the upgrade, may still
work, especially if you change out the motherboard. If the
current key is different than these values on a Win10 machine,
you should try to figure out whether boxed_software was used.

VK7JG-NPHTM-C97JM-9MPGT-3V66T (Windows 10 Professional)
YTMG3-N6DKC-DKB77-7M9GH-8HVX7 (Windows 10 Home - multi language)
BT79Q-G7N6G-PGBYW-4YWX6-6F4BT (Windows 10 Home - single language)

The motherboard has a NIC. The NIC has a MAC address. Each MAC
address is unique (they're bought in blocks from IEEE and are
"not to be reused, or copied"). While there were some NICs,
where when you opened each box, all the MAC values were the same,
that doesn't happen on motherboards. The industry bigshots would see
to it, that any company "short-sheeting on MAC address", would be
kicked out of the club (would not be able to buy chipsets and so on).

This means, that while for the most part, the industry lives by a
"we will not track the user" philosophy, the NIC MAC is a rather
unique identifier. When you change out a motherboard, you could

Use exact same motherboard = but NIC MAC is different
Use different chipset mobo = but NIC MAC is different, chipset is different

If you had the exact same motherboard AND you hacked the NIC MAC,
then Windows would be blissfully unaware what you'd done. On my
Nforce2 board, the BIOS utility actually had MAC cloning capability :-)

If the machine is Royalty OEM, like a Dell or an Acer, the rules
are different, yet again.

Dell Win7 = activated via BIOS SLIC table, good for Dell OS
Dell Win8 = OS specific key MSDM stored in BIOS, good for W8
Dell Win10 = OS specific key MSDM stored in BIOS, good for W10

If you change the motherboard on the last two, then the exact same MSDM
is not going to be present. I don't know the details of any issues
with mobo changeout on the last two.

*******

Getting back to your original complaint, if the machine was
registered to the user, you might be able to contact Microsoft
Support and have the activation transferred to the "repaired"
machine. Here, the "MSA" is the Microsoft Account you might use
to tie machines together and do OneDrive stuff.

https://account.microsoft.com/devices (only if user applies their MSA
to specific machine(s) )

https://account.microsoft.com/devices/recoverykey (Bitlocker issue caused on W10Home)

The user who owns the machine, should be able to apply
their MSA and MSA_password to the login box caused
by those two links, to get more info. I don't know what
steps a person carries out, once the MSA is in hand.
You can probably apply an MSA to a newly installed
machine which is not activated, and then perhaps
it would appear in the account.microsoft.com/devices
table ? I don't plan on testing this. My Test Machine
should be listed against my MSA, but the machine
I'm typing on, should not be listed, and it has
W10 Upgrade on it too. Neither will my laptop
be in the "devices" list, because no MSA was
applied to it. Only one of three machines is
track-able at the moment, via this mechanism.

Paul

Re: New Hardware

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From: philo@news.novabbs.com (philo)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: New Hardware
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 09:28:54 +0000
Organization: novaBBS
Message-ID: <2e74bc9dcd51ff47d7ec7be67276a6a1@news.novabbs.com>
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 by: philo - Fri, 27 Aug 2021 09:28 UTC

Thanks for the great answer.

Now that I blanked the drive and reinstalled I can't experiment anymore.

Now that everyone has smartphones...rather than having three machines on my bench each week...I only repair three a year it seems and my knowledge is falling behind.

After more or less dropping out of the computer repair phase...I am now getting back into it by rebuilding most of the machines in the house.

Many of the Win10 machines were MBR installations that I have now converted to GPT. Much to my surprise most of my mobos were UEFI simply set to legacy.

I kept one legacy only mono in service and am now using it to dual boot my two Linux installations. AFIK, there is no simple procedure (mbr2gpt) in Linux.

Right now I have one Win11 installation I'm testing. All is working fine with no hacks but the CPU is not on the MS supported list

Re: New Hardware

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From: nospam@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: New Hardware
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 06:39:27 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Paul - Fri, 27 Aug 2021 10:39 UTC

philo wrote:

>
> Right now I have one Win11 installation I'm testing. All is working fine
> with no hacks but the CPU is not on the MS supported list

But you know this can't last.

For fun, take a look at a Windows 10 machine.

control.exe
Programs and Features
Windows Features

Now, normally, a weirdness might be Hyper-V settings
in there, if you don't use Hyper-V.

But now, I notice there are some other settings in
there (added by one of the Feature Updates at a guess),
which look like settings that might support
portions of the Windows 11 security model.

This suggests that maybe what Microsoft is doing,
is modular to some extent (no surprise).

But what it also suggests, is that Insider W11 you're
testing, it might not have all the final features
turned on (Containers), and if we reached a point
of a Release Version of W11 coming out, that stuff
would be switched on. And then my processors
would not support that. And the installer would
refuse to install it for me.

I noticed today, an article that said that Asus was
releasing some BIOS versions to aid in Windows 11
deployment. And, how it "went back to Skylake". I
think it's a stretch to even utter that word with
regard to this issue. That's not going to work. It
may allow some motherboards to pass a TPM check,
but I don't think the entire (default) Windows 11
feature set will magically come alive, because of
a BIOS switch. Winston already hinted at one feature,
which is not on the Intel ark.intel.com CPU feature
page, that won't be there on most old processors.
Will Intel ever bother to update all their CPU
pages with the info, so we can tell at a glance
that is missing ? Dunno.

Maybe your CPU is only three years old, and this is
all going to work out for you.

As a PC Repairman, I think you will also be interested
in tha Windows 11 will be undebuggable (just like I cannot
debug a Snap in Linux), and that it is also possible
that Task Manager won't actually show all the activity
on the computer. Which means it is possible we will be
flying blind on this. There are already hints this is
happening in Windows 10, if you keep your critical eye
peeled and watch some time.

Paul

Re: New Hardware

<sgaljs$hc1$1@dont-email.me>

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From: philo@privacy.net (philo)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: New Hardware
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 07:25:31 -0500
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 by: philo - Fri, 27 Aug 2021 12:25 UTC

On 8/27/21 5:39 AM, Paul wrote:
> philo wrote:
>
>>
>> Right now I have one Win11 installation I'm testing. All is working
>> fine with no hacks but the CPU is not on the MS supported list
>
> But you know this can't last.
>
> For fun, take a look at a Windows 10 machine.
>
>    control.exe
>       Programs and Features
>          Windows Features
>
> Now, normally, a weirdness might be Hyper-V settings
> in there, if you don't use Hyper-V.
>
> But now, I notice there are some other settings in
> there (added by one of the Feature Updates at a guess),
> which look like settings that might support
> portions of the Windows 11 security model.
>
> This suggests that maybe what Microsoft is doing,
> is modular to some extent (no surprise).
>
> But what it also suggests, is that Insider W11 you're
> testing, it might not have all the final features
> turned on (Containers), and if we reached a point
> of a Release Version of W11 coming out, that stuff
> would be switched on. And then my processors
> would not support that. And the installer would
> refuse to install it for me.
>
> I noticed today, an article that said that Asus was
> releasing some BIOS versions to aid in Windows 11
> deployment. And, how it "went back to Skylake". I
> think it's a stretch to even utter that word with
> regard to this issue. That's not going to work. It
> may allow some motherboards to pass a TPM check,
> but I don't think the entire (default) Windows 11
> feature set will magically come alive, because of
> a BIOS switch. Winston already hinted at one feature,
> which is not on the Intel ark.intel.com CPU feature
> page, that won't be there on most old processors.
> Will Intel ever bother to update all their CPU
> pages with the info, so we can tell at a glance
> that is missing ? Dunno.
>
> Maybe your CPU is only three years old, and this is
> all going to work out for you.
>
> As a PC Repairman, I think you will also be interested
> in tha Windows 11 will be undebuggable (just like I cannot
> debug a Snap in Linux), and that it is also possible
> that Task Manager won't actually show all the activity
> on the computer. Which means it is possible we will be
> flying blind on this. There are already hints this is
> happening in Windows 10, if you keep your critical eye
> peeled and watch some time.
>
>    Paul

At least I have the sense to test Win11 on it's own drive.
I was on a win11 FB group and all kinds of people are upgrading their
Win10 and then trying to find out why everything is not working right.

The main reason I even got interested in Win11 is because it will
support Android apps.

Re: New Hardware

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From: nospam@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: New Hardware
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 09:05:40 -0400
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 by: Paul - Fri, 27 Aug 2021 13:05 UTC

philo wrote:

>
> At least I have the sense to test Win11 on it's own drive.
> I was on a win11 FB group and all kinds of people are upgrading their
> Win10 and then trying to find out why everything is not working right.
>
>
> The main reason I even got interested in Win11 is because it will
> support Android apps.

The Insider stands a good chance of getting to test that.

If, however, the feature is late, they could drop it in
order to hit a Christmas market.

The W11 doesn't feel ready. I don't know about you, but
by leaving all the new features switched off, they're
not getting any test time. If there is an actual
release date they're trying to hit, it is not obvious
what that date is. Releasing in January, would be
worthless to executive bonuses. The uptake of the product
would be too small, for any employees to be given new
sets of golf clubs.

Paul

Re: New Hardware

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 by: SilverSlimer - Fri, 27 Aug 2021 13:42 UTC

On 2021-08-27 8:25 a.m., philo wrote:
> On 8/27/21 5:39 AM, Paul wrote:
>> philo wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Right now I have one Win11 installation I'm testing. All is working
>>> fine with no hacks but the CPU is not on the MS supported list
>>
>> But you know this can't last.
>>
>> For fun, take a look at a Windows 10 machine.
>>
>>     control.exe
>>        Programs and Features
>>           Windows Features
>>
>> Now, normally, a weirdness might be Hyper-V settings
>> in there, if you don't use Hyper-V.
>>
>> But now, I notice there are some other settings in
>> there (added by one of the Feature Updates at a guess),
>> which look like settings that might support
>> portions of the Windows 11 security model.
>>
>> This suggests that maybe what Microsoft is doing,
>> is modular to some extent (no surprise).
>>
>> But what it also suggests, is that Insider W11 you're
>> testing, it might not have all the final features
>> turned on (Containers), and if we reached a point
>> of a Release Version of W11 coming out, that stuff
>> would be switched on. And then my processors
>> would not support that. And the installer would
>> refuse to install it for me.
>>
>> I noticed today, an article that said that Asus was
>> releasing some BIOS versions to aid in Windows 11
>> deployment. And, how it "went back to Skylake". I
>> think it's a stretch to even utter that word with
>> regard to this issue. That's not going to work. It
>> may allow some motherboards to pass a TPM check,
>> but I don't think the entire (default) Windows 11
>> feature set will magically come alive, because of
>> a BIOS switch. Winston already hinted at one feature,
>> which is not on the Intel ark.intel.com CPU feature
>> page, that won't be there on most old processors.
>> Will Intel ever bother to update all their CPU
>> pages with the info, so we can tell at a glance
>> that is missing ? Dunno.
>>
>> Maybe your CPU is only three years old, and this is
>> all going to work out for you.
>>
>> As a PC Repairman, I think you will also be interested
>> in tha Windows 11 will be undebuggable (just like I cannot
>> debug a Snap in Linux), and that it is also possible
>> that Task Manager won't actually show all the activity
>> on the computer. Which means it is possible we will be
>> flying blind on this. There are already hints this is
>> happening in Windows 10, if you keep your critical eye
>> peeled and watch some time.
>>
>>     Paul
>
> At least I have the sense to test Win11 on it's own drive.
> I was on a win11 FB group and all kinds of people are upgrading their
> Win10 and then trying to find out why everything is not working right.
>
>
> The main reason I even got interested in Win11 is because it will
> support Android apps.

Windows 11 is slightly less responsive than Windows 10 in my experience
so far. I notice that opening the context menus (right-click) takes an
inordinate amount of time compared to just about any other operating
system I've used. Other than that, there is very little difference
between it and Windows 10.

--
SilverSlimer
@silverslimer

Re: New Hardware

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From: philo@privacy.net (philo)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: New Hardware
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 11:07:13 -0500
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 by: philo - Fri, 27 Aug 2021 16:07 UTC

On 8/27/21 8:42 AM, SilverSlimer wrote:
> On 2021-08-27 8:25 a.m., philo wrote:
>> On 8/27/21 5:39 AM, Paul wrote:
>>> philo wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Right now I have one Win11 installation I'm testing. All is working
>>>> fine with no hacks but the CPU is not on the MS supported list
>>>
>>> But you know this can't last.
>>>
>>> For fun, take a look at a Windows 10 machine.
>>>
>>>     control.exe
>>>        Programs and Features
>>>           Windows Features
>>>
>>> Now, normally, a weirdness might be Hyper-V settings
>>> in there, if you don't use Hyper-V.
>>>
>>> But now, I notice there are some other settings in
>>> there (added by one of the Feature Updates at a guess),
>>> which look like settings that might support
>>> portions of the Windows 11 security model.
>>>
>>> This suggests that maybe what Microsoft is doing,
>>> is modular to some extent (no surprise).
>>>
>>> But what it also suggests, is that Insider W11 you're
>>> testing, it might not have all the final features
>>> turned on (Containers), and if we reached a point
>>> of a Release Version of W11 coming out, that stuff
>>> would be switched on. And then my processors
>>> would not support that. And the installer would
>>> refuse to install it for me.
>>>
>>> I noticed today, an article that said that Asus was
>>> releasing some BIOS versions to aid in Windows 11
>>> deployment. And, how it "went back to Skylake". I
>>> think it's a stretch to even utter that word with
>>> regard to this issue. That's not going to work. It
>>> may allow some motherboards to pass a TPM check,
>>> but I don't think the entire (default) Windows 11
>>> feature set will magically come alive, because of
>>> a BIOS switch. Winston already hinted at one feature,
>>> which is not on the Intel ark.intel.com CPU feature
>>> page, that won't be there on most old processors.
>>> Will Intel ever bother to update all their CPU
>>> pages with the info, so we can tell at a glance
>>> that is missing ? Dunno.
>>>
>>> Maybe your CPU is only three years old, and this is
>>> all going to work out for you.
>>>
>>> As a PC Repairman, I think you will also be interested
>>> in tha Windows 11 will be undebuggable (just like I cannot
>>> debug a Snap in Linux), and that it is also possible
>>> that Task Manager won't actually show all the activity
>>> on the computer. Which means it is possible we will be
>>> flying blind on this. There are already hints this is
>>> happening in Windows 10, if you keep your critical eye
>>> peeled and watch some time.
>>>
>>>     Paul
>>
>> At least I have the sense to test Win11 on it's own drive.
>> I was on a win11 FB group and all kinds of people are upgrading their
>> Win10 and then trying to find out why everything is not working right.
>>
>>
>> The main reason I even got interested in Win11 is because it will
>> support Android apps.
>
> Windows 11 is slightly less responsive than Windows 10 in my experience
> so far. I notice that opening the context menus (right-click) takes an
> inordinate amount of time compared to just about any other operating
> system I've used. Other than that, there is very little difference
> between it and Windows 10.
>
I experienced that too. Cloned both Win10 and Win11 to ssds and now the
performance of both is quite good. Except for backing up a lot of data
I'm going 100% ssd

Re: New Hardware

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From: philo@privacy.net (philo)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: New Hardware
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 11:09:06 -0500
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 by: philo - Fri, 27 Aug 2021 16:09 UTC

On 8/27/21 8:05 AM, Paul wrote:
> philo wrote:
>
>>
>> At least I have the sense to test Win11 on it's own drive.
>> I was on a win11 FB group and all kinds of people are upgrading their
>> Win10 and then trying to find out why everything is not working right.
>>
>>
>> The main reason I even got interested in Win11 is because it will
>> support Android apps.
>
> The Insider stands a good chance of getting to test that.
>
> If, however, the feature is late, they could drop it in
> order to hit a Christmas market.
>
> The W11 doesn't feel ready. I don't know about you, but
> by leaving all the new features switched off, they're
> not getting any test time. If there is an actual
> release date they're trying to hit, it is not obvious
> what that date is. Releasing in January, would be
> worthless to executive bonuses. The uptake of the product
> would be too small, for any employees to be given new
> sets of golf clubs.
>
>    Paul

Right now I'm in the observation only phase

Re: New Hardware

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 by: SilverSlimer - Fri, 27 Aug 2021 16:11 UTC

On 2021-08-27 12:07 p.m., philo wrote:
> On 8/27/21 8:42 AM, SilverSlimer wrote:
>> On 2021-08-27 8:25 a.m., philo wrote:
>>> On 8/27/21 5:39 AM, Paul wrote:
>>>> philo wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Right now I have one Win11 installation I'm testing. All is working
>>>>> fine with no hacks but the CPU is not on the MS supported list
>>>>
>>>> But you know this can't last.
>>>>
>>>> For fun, take a look at a Windows 10 machine.
>>>>
>>>>     control.exe
>>>>        Programs and Features
>>>>           Windows Features
>>>>
>>>> Now, normally, a weirdness might be Hyper-V settings
>>>> in there, if you don't use Hyper-V.
>>>>
>>>> But now, I notice there are some other settings in
>>>> there (added by one of the Feature Updates at a guess),
>>>> which look like settings that might support
>>>> portions of the Windows 11 security model.
>>>>
>>>> This suggests that maybe what Microsoft is doing,
>>>> is modular to some extent (no surprise).
>>>>
>>>> But what it also suggests, is that Insider W11 you're
>>>> testing, it might not have all the final features
>>>> turned on (Containers), and if we reached a point
>>>> of a Release Version of W11 coming out, that stuff
>>>> would be switched on. And then my processors
>>>> would not support that. And the installer would
>>>> refuse to install it for me.
>>>>
>>>> I noticed today, an article that said that Asus was
>>>> releasing some BIOS versions to aid in Windows 11
>>>> deployment. And, how it "went back to Skylake". I
>>>> think it's a stretch to even utter that word with
>>>> regard to this issue. That's not going to work. It
>>>> may allow some motherboards to pass a TPM check,
>>>> but I don't think the entire (default) Windows 11
>>>> feature set will magically come alive, because of
>>>> a BIOS switch. Winston already hinted at one feature,
>>>> which is not on the Intel ark.intel.com CPU feature
>>>> page, that won't be there on most old processors.
>>>> Will Intel ever bother to update all their CPU
>>>> pages with the info, so we can tell at a glance
>>>> that is missing ? Dunno.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe your CPU is only three years old, and this is
>>>> all going to work out for you.
>>>>
>>>> As a PC Repairman, I think you will also be interested
>>>> in tha Windows 11 will be undebuggable (just like I cannot
>>>> debug a Snap in Linux), and that it is also possible
>>>> that Task Manager won't actually show all the activity
>>>> on the computer. Which means it is possible we will be
>>>> flying blind on this. There are already hints this is
>>>> happening in Windows 10, if you keep your critical eye
>>>> peeled and watch some time.
>>>>
>>>>     Paul
>>>
>>> At least I have the sense to test Win11 on it's own drive.
>>> I was on a win11 FB group and all kinds of people are upgrading their
>>> Win10 and then trying to find out why everything is not working right.
>>>
>>>
>>> The main reason I even got interested in Win11 is because it will
>>> support Android apps.
>>
>> Windows 11 is slightly less responsive than Windows 10 in my
>> experience so far. I notice that opening the context menus
>> (right-click) takes an inordinate amount of time compared to just
>> about any other operating system I've used. Other than that, there is
>> very little difference between it and Windows 10.
>>
> I experienced that too. Cloned both Win10 and Win11 to ssds and now the
> performance of both is quite good. Except for backing up a lot of data
> I'm going 100% ssd

I do have to wonder _why_ the context menus are so slow in Windows 11. I
know that some of them are additions whereas other parts of the context
are copied and pasted from 10 but it doesn't make sense to me that a
right-click and the response to that right-click would have a good two
seconds in difference. I'm using a Ryzen 9 5900HS with 16GB of RAM so I
can't imagine that I'm not provided enough processing and resources to
the operating system. I'll have to hope that it's something limited to
the beta releases and that, like Vista, there is a tremendous
performance difference from the testing stock and the final release.

--
SilverSlimer
@silverslimer

Re: New Hardware

<sgb4l2$2qd$1@dont-email.me>

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From: philo@privacy.net (philo)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: New Hardware
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 11:42:08 -0500
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 by: philo - Fri, 27 Aug 2021 16:42 UTC

On 8/27/21 11:11 AM, SilverSlimer wrote:
> On 2021-08-27 12:07 p.m., philo wrote:
>> On 8/27/21 8:42 AM, SilverSlimer wrote:
>>> On 2021-08-27 8:25 a.m., philo wrote:
>>>> On 8/27/21 5:39 AM, Paul wrote:
>>>>> philo wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right now I have one Win11 installation I'm testing. All is
>>>>>> working fine with no hacks but the CPU is not on the MS supported
>>>>>> list
>>>>>
>>>>> But you know this can't last.
>>>>>
>>>>> For fun, take a look at a Windows 10 machine.
>>>>>
>>>>>     control.exe
>>>>>        Programs and Features
>>>>>           Windows Features
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, normally, a weirdness might be Hyper-V settings
>>>>> in there, if you don't use Hyper-V.
>>>>>
>>>>> But now, I notice there are some other settings in
>>>>> there (added by one of the Feature Updates at a guess),
>>>>> which look like settings that might support
>>>>> portions of the Windows 11 security model.
>>>>>
>>>>> This suggests that maybe what Microsoft is doing,
>>>>> is modular to some extent (no surprise).
>>>>>
>>>>> But what it also suggests, is that Insider W11 you're
>>>>> testing, it might not have all the final features
>>>>> turned on (Containers), and if we reached a point
>>>>> of a Release Version of W11 coming out, that stuff
>>>>> would be switched on. And then my processors
>>>>> would not support that. And the installer would
>>>>> refuse to install it for me.
>>>>>
>>>>> I noticed today, an article that said that Asus was
>>>>> releasing some BIOS versions to aid in Windows 11
>>>>> deployment. And, how it "went back to Skylake". I
>>>>> think it's a stretch to even utter that word with
>>>>> regard to this issue. That's not going to work. It
>>>>> may allow some motherboards to pass a TPM check,
>>>>> but I don't think the entire (default) Windows 11
>>>>> feature set will magically come alive, because of
>>>>> a BIOS switch. Winston already hinted at one feature,
>>>>> which is not on the Intel ark.intel.com CPU feature
>>>>> page, that won't be there on most old processors.
>>>>> Will Intel ever bother to update all their CPU
>>>>> pages with the info, so we can tell at a glance
>>>>> that is missing ? Dunno.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe your CPU is only three years old, and this is
>>>>> all going to work out for you.
>>>>>
>>>>> As a PC Repairman, I think you will also be interested
>>>>> in tha Windows 11 will be undebuggable (just like I cannot
>>>>> debug a Snap in Linux), and that it is also possible
>>>>> that Task Manager won't actually show all the activity
>>>>> on the computer. Which means it is possible we will be
>>>>> flying blind on this. There are already hints this is
>>>>> happening in Windows 10, if you keep your critical eye
>>>>> peeled and watch some time.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Paul
>>>>
>>>> At least I have the sense to test Win11 on it's own drive.
>>>> I was on a win11 FB group and all kinds of people are upgrading
>>>> their Win10 and then trying to find out why everything is not
>>>> working right.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The main reason I even got interested in Win11 is because it will
>>>> support Android apps.
>>>
>>> Windows 11 is slightly less responsive than Windows 10 in my
>>> experience so far. I notice that opening the context menus
>>> (right-click) takes an inordinate amount of time compared to just
>>> about any other operating system I've used. Other than that, there is
>>> very little difference between it and Windows 10.
>>>
>> I experienced that too. Cloned both Win10 and Win11 to ssds and now
>> the performance of both is quite good. Except for backing up a lot of
>> data I'm going 100% ssd
>
> I do have to wonder _why_ the context menus are so slow in Windows 11. I
> know that some of them are additions whereas other parts of the context
> are copied and pasted from 10 but it doesn't make sense to me that a
> right-click and the response to that right-click would have a good two
> seconds in difference. I'm using a Ryzen 9 5900HS with 16GB of RAM so I
> can't imagine that I'm not provided enough processing and resources to
> the operating system. I'll have to hope that it's something limited to
> the beta releases and that, like Vista, there is a tremendous
> performance difference from the testing stock and the final release.
>

I also had 16 G of RAM that did nothing to help.

I now have superior performance with an ssd and only 8 gigs of RAM

If you do not have an ssd, it's a must

Mine is a "standard" ssd but I've heard M.2's and NVMe are superior

Re: New Hardware

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NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 15:30:10 -0500
From: peter@parksidewood.nospam (Peter Johnson)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: New Hardware
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 21:30:11 +0100
Message-ID: <ojiiigdf1qo6187f1agjeqnn2elgmbr7jc@4ax.com>
References: <3287bebb629993f3381ee22bec8b017a@news.novabbs.com> <sga4pu$ofv$1@dont-email.me> <2e74bc9dcd51ff47d7ec7be67276a6a1@news.novabbs.com> <sgafd1$ter$1@dont-email.me> <sgaljs$hc1$1@dont-email.me> <nZ5WI.1895$2Q_3.982@fx35.iad>
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 by: Peter Johnson - Fri, 27 Aug 2021 20:30 UTC

On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 09:42:42 -0400, SilverSlimer <silver@slim.er>
wrote:

>
>Windows 11 is slightly less responsive than Windows 10 in my experience
>so far. I notice that opening the context menus (right-click) takes an
>inordinate amount of time compared to just about any other operating
>system I've used. Other than that, there is very little difference
>between it and Windows 10.

I haven't noticed any change in response on my system, and the context
menus open instantly. OS installed on middle-of-the-road SSD.
I agree that there is little obvious difference between Win 11 and Win
10.

Re: New Hardware

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Subject: Re: New Hardware
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
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 by: SilverSlimer - Sat, 28 Aug 2021 14:10 UTC

On 2021-08-27 4:30 p.m., Peter Johnson wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 09:42:42 -0400, SilverSlimer <silver@slim.er>
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Windows 11 is slightly less responsive than Windows 10 in my experience
>> so far. I notice that opening the context menus (right-click) takes an
>> inordinate amount of time compared to just about any other operating
>> system I've used. Other than that, there is very little difference
>> between it and Windows 10.
>
> I haven't noticed any change in response on my system, and the context
> menus open instantly. OS installed on middle-of-the-road SSD.
> I agree that there is little obvious difference between Win 11 and Win
> 10.

Did you install Windows 11 from the ISO or did you perform an upgrade?
Mine was an upgrade which might be why the performance is slightly
compromised.

--
SilverSlimer
@silverslimer

Re: New Hardware

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From: peter@parksidewood.nospam (Peter Johnson)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: New Hardware
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2021 15:31:17 +0100
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 by: Peter Johnson - Sat, 28 Aug 2021 14:31 UTC

On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 10:10:35 -0400, SilverSlimer <silver@slim.er>
wrote:

>On 2021-08-27 4:30 p.m., Peter Johnson wrote:
>> On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 09:42:42 -0400, SilverSlimer <silver@slim.er>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Windows 11 is slightly less responsive than Windows 10 in my experience
>>> so far. I notice that opening the context menus (right-click) takes an
>>> inordinate amount of time compared to just about any other operating
>>> system I've used. Other than that, there is very little difference
>>> between it and Windows 10.
>>
>> I haven't noticed any change in response on my system, and the context
>> menus open instantly. OS installed on middle-of-the-road SSD.
>> I agree that there is little obvious difference between Win 11 and Win
>> 10.
>
>Did you install Windows 11 from the ISO or did you perform an upgrade?
>Mine was an upgrade which might be why the performance is slightly
>compromised.

WU update. I was impressed with how smoothly it went.

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