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computers / alt.internet.wireless / Re: How to use "local" adb wireless-debugging ladb to spoof a PC connection

SubjectAuthor
* How to use "local" adb wireless-debugging ladb to spoof a PC connectionAndy Burnelli
`* Re: How to use "local" adb wireless-debugging ladb to spoof a PC connectionSilvano
 `* Re: How to use "local" adb wireless-debugging ladb to spoof a PCsms
  `- Re: How to use "local" adb wireless-debugging ladb to spoof a PC connectionAndy Burnelli

1
How to use "local" adb wireless-debugging ladb to spoof a PC connection

<u09pbv$2gb7r$1@paganini.bofh.team>

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From: nospam@nospam.net (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,alt.comp.microsoft.windows,alt.internet.wireless
Subject: How to use "local" adb wireless-debugging ladb to spoof a PC connection
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2023 18:24:31 +0100
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 by: Andy Burnelli - Sat, 1 Apr 2023 17:24 UTC

How to use "local" adb wireless-debugging ladb to spoof a PC connection.
<https://i.postimg.cc/436FCYFX/adb31.jpg> Local adb runs on Android
<https://i.postimg.cc/7YLhtcZL/adb32.jpg> ladb eliminates the PC

The topic came up how to uninstall Google apps without being rooted
where the simplest solution is to delete them from Android using a PC.
*Remove Google Apps from Android?*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/7qLXTRuzHCU>

Where, one solution to that problem set is to use adb over Wi-Fi or
over USB between the Android phone and the PC (Windows, MacOS or Linux).
C:> adb shell
pm disable-user --user 0 com.package.name (disables named package)
pm enable --user 0 com.package.name (enables prior disabled package)
pm uninstall --user 0 com.package.name (wipes out package data/cache)
pm uninstall -k --user 0 com.package.name (keeps package data/cache)
cmd package install-existing com.package.name (re-installs package)

For example, this uninstalls for the non-root user these Google packages:
C:\> adb shell pm list packages | findstr /i com.google.android
C:\> adb shell pm uninstall --user 0 com.google.android.chrome
C:\> adb shell pm uninstall --user 0 com.google.android.youtube
C:\> adb shell pm uninstall --user 0 com.google.android.gm
C:\> adb shell pm uninstall --user 0 com.google.android.apps.maps
C:\> adb shell pm uninstall --user 0 com.android.vending
etc.

Perhaps after replacing the uninstalled apps with their FOSS replacements.
1. A far better YouTube FOSS replacement is *NewPipe* by Schabi
<https://newpipe.net/>
2. Chrome FOSS replacements are *Bromite*, *Chromium* or *Ungoogled Chromium*
<https://github.com/bromite/bromite/releases>
<https://www.bromite.org/chromium>
<https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromium-android>
3. A Google Maps offline FOSS adjunct might be OSMAnd+ (aka OSMAND~)
<https://f-droid.org/en/packages/net.osmand.plus/>
4. A GMail FOSS MUA replacement might be FairEmail or Mozilla K-9 Mail
<https://email.faircode.eu/>
<https://k9mail.app/>
5. A far better Google Play Store FOSS replacement client is Aurora
<https://auroraoss.com/>
etc.

But some people don't have adb running on their PC (I'm not sure why as
adb provides sound and screen mirroring with use of the keyboard & mouse).

Others might not even have a PC.

Luckily, there is a "hack" that works, albeit it's a bit buggy in my
humble opinion - but it does work and it has been improving since
Android 9 where it relies on spoofing the wireless connection of a PC.

Local adb (ladb, by Tyler Nijmeh, aka tytydraco) uses "wireless debugging"
to put you at Android to a local adb shell prompt of "adb shell"
(without needing to establish a real connection of a PC via adb to Android).
<https://i.postimg.cc/cL55tfvF/ladb01.jpg> App purchase N/A anonymously
<https://i.postimg.cc/c47S3kWX/ladb02.jpg> Github LADB v2.2.1 build avail
<https://i.postimg.cc/MTL4kVSc/ladb03.jpg> Wireless debugging pairing code
<https://i.postimg.cc/hGYWnH8P/ladb04.jpg> LADB is a bit flaky at times
<https://i.postimg.cc/xdwxtYyH/ladb05.jpg> This is the debugging process
<https://i.postimg.cc/B6d0Tdtw/ladb06.jpg> LADB will eventually work

Since I care greatly about interoperability between platforms, I've read
almost everything on the Internet about ladb, but most people have not.

Hence I will first warn you that it may seem like you can't get a bona-fide
free version of the APK if all you look at is the Google Play Store offering.
*LADB* Local ADB Shell by tytydraco (aka Tyler Nijmeh)
$3, ad free, requires gsf, 3.7star, 683 reviews, 10K+Downloads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.draco.ladb>

While the code is FOSS, the developer has "made a side deal" with us that
he will provide the source but not a build of the APK, at least not directly.
<https://github.com/tytydraco/LADB>

If you read the XDA-Developers' thread authored by Tyler Nijmeh, you'll
see that he has provided a way to get it, for free, from Google Play Store,
but I won't say more about that here (you'll have to read what he says).

Of course, this being Android, you can certainly get it from the many
unofficial APK archives, but most of us shy away from them if possible.
<https://m.apkpure.com/local-adb-android-11/com.draco.ladb.free>
<https://aapks.com/apk/ladb/version/59594160/>
<https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PS_YONimWguXNkaHcJbFCyBhfXlIY7A7/view>
But often these are not timely builds (the latest release being v2.2.1).

And, given it's FOSS software, anyone can (and people do) build APKs.
<https://youtu.be/6UO5tb_eKxY?t=156>
<https://dlsharefile.com/file/2018065248>
<https://dlupload.com/FileDetail/2018065248>
But sometimes, as shown above, they make it hard to find the download.

Luckily, kind-hearted people make timely builds available such as this one.
<https://github.com/hyperio546/ladb-builds>
<https://github.com/hyperio546/ladb-builds/releases/tag/v2.2.1>

In summary, the official ladb can legitimately be obtained for free
by a variety of sanctioned & unsanctioned methods, which, since I happen
to know some of them, my kind-hearted soul wants others to benefit from
my hard-earned knowledge.

One bit of hard-earned experience, by the way, was learned because I
do not have a Google Account on my Android devices, and yet I have no
problem downloading, saving, installing & updating _free_ APKs without
ever needing to use the Google Play Store repository (I use a better
client to the exact same Google Play Store repository instead).

My point of view is that if you're intelligent, there will never
(or almost never for most people but never for me) be a need to pay
for software on any adult OS platform, whether it's Windows or Android.

However...

A minor problem I found out was you can't use anonymous accounts for
Google Play Store client payware, which has never, in all my years
using Android, stymied me but it's a point to note since many people
also have their no-rooted phones set up for privacy like I do
(which almost always means there is no Google Account set up on it).
<https://i.postimg.cc/Bnyr9fP1/account01.jpg> Works better w/o Google
<https://i.postimg.cc/NG5pHyBx/aurora10.jpg> No need for a Google Account
<https://i.postimg.cc/cL55tfvF/ladb01.jpg> App purchase N/A anonymously

REFERENCES:
<https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/12/23/this-app-gives-you-a-local-adb-shell-no-need-for-root/>
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/udGDxJVcvxo/m/V3Vs_sjXBQAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/5-nzRG-xM4E/m/FORkwNFDCAAJ>
<https://www.xda-developers.com/debloat-your-phone-run-adb-shell-commands-no-root-no-pc/>
<https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/say-hello-to-ladb-a-local-adb-shell-without-needing-root-or-a-computer.4204855/>
<https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/psa-using-the-new-android-12-tile-for-developer-options-wireless-debugging-to-establish-adb-connection-over-wi-fi-without-usb.4469339/#post-87250539>
<https://krispitech.com/how-to-use-adb-command-on-your-smartphone-without-a-pc/>

For example, here are the krispitech instructions from that last URL.
a. After we open up LADB, bring the recent page to your smartphone.
b. Tap on the LADB icon at the top and enable split screen mode.
c. Then, tap on the settings application and open it at the bottom
in the split screen mode.
d. In the settings app, scroll down to the bottom and navigate
to developer options.
e. In developer options, scroll down and navigate for the
wireless debugging option.
f. By default the wireless debugging option is disabled.
Tap on the toggle next to it to enable the option.
g. Tap on the Wireless debugging option to open a new window
where we can find the Pair device with pairing code option.
h. Tap on Pair device with pairing code option to see the
pairing code, IP address, and port number.
i. Just type the WI-Fi pairing code on the LADB window in
the box where it says pairing code.
j. Next, type the port number in the LADB window.
The Port number is the number after the colon below the
IP address in the wireless debugging option and tap on
Okay in the LADB window.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to faithfully help others use ladb more easily.

Re: How to use "local" adb wireless-debugging ladb to spoof a PC connection

<u0sk27$1d3rv$1@dont-email.me>

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From: Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it (Silvano)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,alt.comp.microsoft.windows,alt.internet.wireless
Subject: Re: How to use "local" adb wireless-debugging ladb to spoof a PC connection
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2023 22:50:33 +0200
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Silvano - Sat, 8 Apr 2023 20:50 UTC

Andy Burnelli hat am 02.04.2023 um 05:24 geschrieben:
> How to use "local" adb wireless-debugging ladb to spoof a PC connection.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/436FCYFX/adb31.jpg> Local adb runs on Android
> <https://i.postimg.cc/7YLhtcZL/adb32.jpg> ladb eliminates the PC
>
> The topic came up how to uninstall Google apps without being rooted
> where the simplest solution is to delete them from Android using a PC.
> *Remove Google Apps from Android?*
> <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/7qLXTRuzHCU>
>
> Where, one solution to that problem set is to use adb over Wi-Fi or
> over USB between the Android phone and the PC (Windows, MacOS or Linux).
> C:> adb shell
> pm disable-user --user 0 com.package.name (disables named package)
> pm enable --user 0 com.package.name (enables prior disabled package)
> pm uninstall --user 0 com.package.name (wipes out package data/cache)
> pm uninstall -k --user 0 com.package.name (keeps package data/cache)
> cmd package install-existing com.package.name (re-installs package)
>
> For example, this uninstalls for the non-root user these Google packages:
> C:\> adb shell pm list packages | findstr /i com.google.android
> C:\> adb shell pm uninstall --user 0 com.google.android.chrome
> C:\> adb shell pm uninstall --user 0 com.google.android.youtube
> C:\> adb shell pm uninstall --user 0 com.google.android.gm
> C:\> adb shell pm uninstall --user 0 com.google.android.apps.maps
> C:\> adb shell pm uninstall --user 0 com.android.vending
> etc.
>
> Perhaps after replacing the uninstalled apps with their FOSS replacements.
> 1. A far better YouTube FOSS replacement is *NewPipe* by Schabi
> <https://newpipe.net/>
> 2. Chrome FOSS replacements are *Bromite*, *Chromium* or *Ungoogled Chromium*
> <https://github.com/bromite/bromite/releases>
> <https://www.bromite.org/chromium>
> <https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromium-android>
> 3. A Google Maps offline FOSS adjunct might be OSMAnd+ (aka OSMAND~)
> <https://f-droid.org/en/packages/net.osmand.plus/>
> 4. A GMail FOSS MUA replacement might be FairEmail or Mozilla K-9 Mail
> <https://email.faircode.eu/>
> <https://k9mail.app/>
> 5. A far better Google Play Store FOSS replacement client is Aurora
> <https://auroraoss.com/>
> etc.
>
> But some people don't have adb running on their PC (I'm not sure why as
> adb provides sound and screen mirroring with use of the keyboard & mouse).
>
> Others might not even have a PC.
>
> Luckily, there is a "hack" that works, albeit it's a bit buggy in my
> humble opinion - but it does work and it has been improving since
> Android 9 where it relies on spoofing the wireless connection of a PC.
>
> Local adb (ladb, by Tyler Nijmeh, aka tytydraco) uses "wireless debugging"
> to put you at Android to a local adb shell prompt of "adb shell"
> (without needing to establish a real connection of a PC via adb to Android).
> <https://i.postimg.cc/cL55tfvF/ladb01.jpg> App purchase N/A anonymously
> <https://i.postimg.cc/c47S3kWX/ladb02.jpg> Github LADB v2.2.1 build avail
> <https://i.postimg.cc/MTL4kVSc/ladb03.jpg> Wireless debugging pairing code
> <https://i.postimg.cc/hGYWnH8P/ladb04.jpg> LADB is a bit flaky at times
> <https://i.postimg.cc/xdwxtYyH/ladb05.jpg> This is the debugging process
> <https://i.postimg.cc/B6d0Tdtw/ladb06.jpg> LADB will eventually work
>
> Since I care greatly about interoperability between platforms, I've read
> almost everything on the Internet about ladb, but most people have not.
>
> Hence I will first warn you that it may seem like you can't get a bona-fide
> free version of the APK if all you look at is the Google Play Store offering.
> *LADB* Local ADB Shell by tytydraco (aka Tyler Nijmeh)
> $3, ad free, requires gsf, 3.7star, 683 reviews, 10K+Downloads
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.draco.ladb>
>
> While the code is FOSS, the developer has "made a side deal" with us that
> he will provide the source but not a build of the APK, at least not directly.
> <https://github.com/tytydraco/LADB>
>
> If you read the XDA-Developers' thread authored by Tyler Nijmeh, you'll
> see that he has provided a way to get it, for free, from Google Play Store,
> but I won't say more about that here (you'll have to read what he says).
>
> Of course, this being Android, you can certainly get it from the many
> unofficial APK archives, but most of us shy away from them if possible.
> <https://m.apkpure.com/local-adb-android-11/com.draco.ladb.free>
> <https://aapks.com/apk/ladb/version/59594160/>
> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PS_YONimWguXNkaHcJbFCyBhfXlIY7A7/view>
> But often these are not timely builds (the latest release being v2.2.1).
>
> And, given it's FOSS software, anyone can (and people do) build APKs.
> <https://youtu.be/6UO5tb_eKxY?t=156>
> <https://dlsharefile.com/file/2018065248>
> <https://dlupload.com/FileDetail/2018065248>
> But sometimes, as shown above, they make it hard to find the download.
>
> Luckily, kind-hearted people make timely builds available such as this one.
> <https://github.com/hyperio546/ladb-builds>
> <https://github.com/hyperio546/ladb-builds/releases/tag/v2.2.1>
>
> In summary, the official ladb can legitimately be obtained for free
> by a variety of sanctioned & unsanctioned methods, which, since I happen
> to know some of them, my kind-hearted soul wants others to benefit from
> my hard-earned knowledge.
>
> One bit of hard-earned experience, by the way, was learned because I
> do not have a Google Account on my Android devices, and yet I have no
> problem downloading, saving, installing & updating _free_ APKs without
> ever needing to use the Google Play Store repository (I use a better
> client to the exact same Google Play Store repository instead).
>
> My point of view is that if you're intelligent, there will never
> (or almost never for most people but never for me) be a need to pay
> for software on any adult OS platform, whether it's Windows or Android.
>
> However...
>
> A minor problem I found out was you can't use anonymous accounts for
> Google Play Store client payware, which has never, in all my years
> using Android, stymied me but it's a point to note since many people
> also have their no-rooted phones set up for privacy like I do
> (which almost always means there is no Google Account set up on it).
> <https://i.postimg.cc/Bnyr9fP1/account01.jpg> Works better w/o Google
> <https://i.postimg.cc/NG5pHyBx/aurora10.jpg> No need for a Google Account
> <https://i.postimg.cc/cL55tfvF/ladb01.jpg> App purchase N/A anonymously
>
> REFERENCES:
> <https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/12/23/this-app-gives-you-a-local-adb-shell-no-need-for-root/>
> <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/udGDxJVcvxo/m/V3Vs_sjXBQAJ>
> <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/5-nzRG-xM4E/m/FORkwNFDCAAJ>
> <https://www.xda-developers.com/debloat-your-phone-run-adb-shell-commands-no-root-no-pc/>
> <https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/say-hello-to-ladb-a-local-adb-shell-without-needing-root-or-a-computer.4204855/>
> <https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/psa-using-the-new-android-12-tile-for-developer-options-wireless-debugging-to-establish-adb-connection-over-wi-fi-without-usb.4469339/#post-87250539>
> <https://krispitech.com/how-to-use-adb-command-on-your-smartphone-without-a-pc/>
>
> For example, here are the krispitech instructions from that last URL.
> a. After we open up LADB, bring the recent page to your smartphone.
> b. Tap on the LADB icon at the top and enable split screen mode.
> c. Then, tap on the settings application and open it at the bottom
> in the split screen mode.
> d. In the settings app, scroll down to the bottom and navigate
> to developer options.
> e. In developer options, scroll down and navigate for the
> wireless debugging option.
> f. By default the wireless debugging option is disabled.
> Tap on the toggle next to it to enable the option.
> g. Tap on the Wireless debugging option to open a new window
> where we can find the Pair device with pairing code option.
> h. Tap on Pair device with pairing code option to see the
> pairing code, IP address, and port number.
> i. Just type the WI-Fi pairing code on the LADB window in
> the box where it says pairing code.
> j. Next, type the port number in the LADB window.
> The Port number is the number after the colon below the
> IP address in the wireless debugging option and tap on
> Okay in the LADB window.


Click here to read the complete article
Re: How to use "local" adb wireless-debugging ladb to spoof a PC connection

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From: scharf.steven@geemail.com (sms)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,alt.comp.microsoft.windows,alt.internet.wireless
Subject: Re: How to use "local" adb wireless-debugging ladb to spoof a PC
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Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2023 13:19:02 -0700
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 by: sms - Mon, 10 Apr 2023 20:19 UTC

On 4/8/2023 1:50 PM, Silvano wrote:
> Andy Burnelli hat am 02.04.2023 um 05:24 geschrieben:

<snip>

> Wouldn't it just be easier to use regular adb on a computer?

Or spend the $2.99 to purchase LADB on the Play Store and support the
developer.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

Re: How to use "local" adb wireless-debugging ladb to spoof a PC connection

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Subject: Re: How to use "local" adb wireless-debugging ladb to spoof a PC connection
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 by: Andy Burnelli - Mon, 10 Apr 2023 23:58 UTC

sms wrote:

>> Wouldn't it just be easier to use regular adb on a computer?
>
> Or spend the $2.99 to purchase LADB on the Play Store and support the
> developer.

My credibility is the most important asset I own, which is based on not
only my intelligence, but the fact I don't state a fact unless it's fact.

In assessing facts, I'm often trying to supply useful answers for others
to do the things I am able to do, much as Paul & Stan & Herbert kindly do.
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android>

When I write a post, I often take hours, and even days or weeks (elapsed
time) to compile and assess all the facts - and to test & screenshot them.

I do this as a free service, out of the goodness of my kind heart & soul.

Hence, my assessments of fact, whether or not you agree with them, at least
are NOT based on ignorance, which, I assert, Steve's assessment above is.

As I said, there probably isn't an ladb article on the net I haven't read.
If you read the back story, the developer is accused of stealing the code.

Specifically, one can easily argue ladb is "stolen code" (see details):
"I can't believe you're charging folks, lol you didn't even do the
leg work. Dude you realize your entire app depends on my work right?

Donate the money to covid relief or something, don't take others
work for your benefit, you did nothing, you literally coded a java
ui, I've done this a bunch for substratum and andromeda with aapt
and adb, lol you think you deserve 3 dollars for this? And that I
deserve nothing? You literally need NEED my code for your crap
to work, and you're going to charge these folks? I gave it away
for free. What the hell is wrong with you?
<https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/say-hello-to-ladb-a-local-adb-shell-without-needing-root-or-a-computer.4204855/post-84956681>

Steve would have no idea of this because Steve filters out all ladb facts.
<https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/say-hello-to-ladb-a-local-adb-shell-without-needing-root-or-a-computer.4204855/post-87542899>
<https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/say-hello-to-ladb-a-local-adb-shell-without-needing-root-or-a-computer.4204855/post-85487947>
<https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/say-hello-to-ladb-a-local-adb-shell-without-needing-root-or-a-computer.4204855/post-84963421>
<https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/say-hello-to-ladb-a-local-adb-shell-without-needing-root-or-a-computer.4204855/post-84945445>
<https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/say-hello-to-ladb-a-local-adb-shell-without-needing-root-or-a-computer.4204855/post-84945445>
etc.

As a former mayor of Cupertino (yes, that Cupertino), Steve is a political
animal who skews all his posts toward the _message_ he's fomenting.

Steve has been consistently admonishing us to _pay_ for ladb, which is his
right, but someone needs to ask Steve if he's aware ladb is stolen code?

From "tytydraco" (the person who gets the money for ladb, to "Surge1223"
"Yes, I am using your compiled binaries."
<https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/say-hello-to-ladb-a-local-adb-shell-without-needing-root-or-a-computer.4204855/post-84963251>

Stealing is a harsh term, so let's just say he "borrowed" some of the code
without attributing that borrowing to the original developer, "Surge1223".

My problem with Steve is mostly that he actively _tries_ to be ignorant,
and not so much that Steve (as a result), _is_ ignorant of all the facts.

From "Surge1223" to "tytydraco" (the "ladb" developer asking for money):
"Tyler, is it fair to say that your app depends on the coding I did?
Coding which you yourself haven't been able to replicate?

No shame, it's hard to make adb play nice, it took me quite a while,
I didn't charge 3 dollars or make a drama story about how broke I was
though. I felt as if people should have this, for free without charge,
I know I utilized a lot of others' work in making the free adb binary."

And, from "Surge1223" to "tytydraco":
"Given you use the adb binaries I compiled, which is fine, I'd prefer
if you made the app free for all folks. Thanks."

Notice that I'm not against anyone charging for the code, nor am I against
anyone who says that you should pay for the code - but - always notice I'm
against ignorance - and - particularly - willful ignorant - on purpose.

It's fine that Steve admonishes us to pay for what could be called stolen
code, but what's not fine is for Steve to chastise us out of his ignorance.

As others said in that thread:
"You used Surge's binary without even asking and started charging for it.
Sorry but that's scummy."
<https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/say-hello-to-ladb-a-local-adb-shell-without-needing-root-or-a-computer.4204855/post-84945457>

And, as "Surge1223" himself said about the audacity to charge for ladb:
"The reason I don't want you to charge, is because without the binaries
I compiled, the app doesn't work. You might say that your Java code
for making a shell and user interface is worth it, if it is, if
that's what you think the hardest part is, go for it and compile
your own binaries.

I realize they're open source, I didn't charge anyone or ask for
any donations for my effort, and I expect the same from anyone
using my work.

Sadly you didn't even have the audacity to thank those who's
shoulders you stepped on to make this app, nor did you even
think to provide credit.

As a dev for substratum and andromeda, both of which make a
ui around a binary, I know first hand how hard it is.

If you want to go the GPL route, I just ask you compile your
binaries on your own, after all, you have no idea what changes
I've made to adb, are you comfortable with selling that to folks?"
<https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/say-hello-to-ladb-a-local-adb-shell-without-needing-root-or-a-computer.4204855/post-84956537>

Adults make assessments based on facts.
Steve makes assessments based on purposefully willfully filtering them out.

That's fine.
But then you have to assess Steve's credibility, as a direct result.
And mine too.
Where I strive to maintain a credibility on facts never being wrong.

Adults never disagree on facts (facts are funny that way).
Only a fool disagrees with facts (that's _why_ they're fools after all).
However, once the facts are agreed upon, it's quite natural for adults to
disagree on _assessments_ of those facts (e.g., is the code stolen, and,
e.g., is it worth paying the developer $3 for code that was 'borrowed' from
others who do _not_ charge the $3 and who object to the charging of that,
etc.).

It's OK for adults to disagree on assessments of facts because we all put
different weights on each of the facts - but it's not OK, IMHO, for adults
to make assessments of facts _without having any clue about those facts_.

My point is Steve's assessment of the monetary value of ladb is, at best,
based on his ignorance & hubris - not on an accurate factual assessment.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to faithfully explain the genesis of the ladb code.

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