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devel / comp.sys.hp48 / failed recover memory after changing battery?

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* failed recover memory after changing battery?Erdos
`* Re: failed recover memory after changing battery?optic...@mindspring.com
 `* Re: failed recover memory after changing battery?Erdos
  `* Re: failed recover memory after changing battery?J. Nielsen
   `- Re: failed recover memory after changing battery?Eric Rechlin

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failed recover memory after changing battery?

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Subject: failed recover memory after changing battery?
From: fengyuguinyc@gmail.com (Erdos)
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 by: Erdos - Fri, 16 Jun 2023 13:12 UTC

hi my hp48G's battery is running low. after put fresh set of 3xAAA battery in, I powered on the battery and was prompted to 'recover memory'. I chose 'yes' but the stored memory didn't get restored.

Re: failed recover memory after changing battery?

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Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2023 06:33:03 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: failed recover memory after changing battery?
From: opticsmith@mindspring.com (optic...@mindspring.com)
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 by: optic...@mindspring. - Sat, 17 Jun 2023 13:33 UTC

On Friday, June 16, 2023 at 9:12:33 AM UTC-4, Erdos wrote:
> hi my hp48G's battery is running low. after put fresh set of 3xAAA battery in, I powered on the battery and was prompted to 'recover memory'. I chose 'yes' but the stored memory didn't get restored.
Per an article in the HP Journal from 1991 about the detailed design and operation of the device:
"The 1LT8 chip also monitors the battery voltage. When the voltage falls to between 3.4 and 3.0 volts, the low-battery annunciator is turned on. If the batteries are not changed and the battery voltage falls below 1.5 volts, the system turns off. A 1000-juF capacitor maintains the VDD supply for several minutes while the batteries are being changed."
If you left the calculator without a full set of batteries for more than a minute or two, you risk memory corruption. I believe that when the calculator wakes up it must do some kind of check on the contents of memory and can discover whether the memory contents have been damaged. Depending on the level of corruption, you may be able to see some or all directories (but possibly with strange names) and then you could manually move them into directories you newly create. But if there's nothing after you Try to Recover Memory, you probably have only your backups to get your data back from.
I'm guessing that the capacitor might have a finite lifetime as well; high-capacitance capacitors have delicate internal structures which might degrade, so your time interval during which you have to swap the batteries might be much shorter.
The above is probably true but I hope someone who has actual in-depth knowledge will chime in and deliver actual factuals.

Re: failed recover memory after changing battery?

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Subject: Re: failed recover memory after changing battery?
From: fengyuguinyc@gmail.com (Erdos)
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 by: Erdos - Tue, 20 Jun 2023 12:39 UTC

Great details! thank you for the reply!

Re: failed recover memory after changing battery?

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From: driftwood@dbmail.dk (J. Nielsen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: Re: failed recover memory after changing battery?
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 by: J. Nielsen - Sun, 25 Jun 2023 16:53 UTC

On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 05:39:46 -0700 (PDT), Erdos <fengyuguinyc@gmail.com> wrote:

>Great details! thank you for the reply!

We still use a couple of hp28 at work. When changing batteries I have the new
batteries lined up and ready for a quick swap.
(we also have copies of the various solver equations - just in case!)
--

-JN-

Re: failed recover memory after changing battery?

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From: eric@hpcalc.org (Eric Rechlin)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: Re: failed recover memory after changing battery?
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2023 17:46:26 -0500
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 by: Eric Rechlin - Mon, 31 Jul 2023 22:46 UTC

On 2023-06-25 11:53, J. Nielsen wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 05:39:46 -0700 (PDT), Erdos <fengyuguinyc@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Great details! thank you for the reply!
>
> We still use a couple of hp28 at work. When changing batteries I have the new
> batteries lined up and ready for a quick swap.
> (we also have copies of the various solver equations - just in case!)

At least with the 48, the batteries are configured in such a way that
you can replace just one at a time, to minimize the time the capacitor
has to preserve the memory. Meanwhile, with the 28 you have the extra
problem of the extremely-fragile battery door. The latest production
units of the 19BII addressed this, but unfortunately that was after the
28 was discontinued.

Eric

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