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devel / comp.protocols.time.ntp / Re: gpsd no PPS output

SubjectAuthor
* gpsd no PPS outputJim Pennino
+* Re: gpsd no PPS outputchris
|+* Re: gpsd no PPS outputWilliam Unruh
||`* Re: gpsd no PPS outputJim Pennino
|| `* Re: gpsd no PPS outputWilliam Unruh
||  `- Re: gpsd no PPS outputJim Pennino
|`* Re: gpsd no PPS outputJim Pennino
| `* Re: gpsd no PPS outputchris
|  +* Re: gpsd no PPS outputchris
|  |`- Re: gpsd no PPS outputJim Pennino
|  +* Re: gpsd no PPS outputWilliam Unruh
|  |+- Re: gpsd no PPS outputchris
|  |`- Re: gpsd no PPS outputDavid Woolley
|  `* Re: gpsd no PPS outputJim Pennino
|   +* Re: gpsd no PPS outputWilliam Unruh
|   |`* Re: gpsd no PPS outputJim Pennino
|   | `* Re: gpsd no PPS outputchris
|   |  +* Re: gpsd no PPS outputchris
|   |  |`- Re: gpsd no PPS outputJim Pennino
|   |  `* Re: gpsd no PPS outputJim Pennino
|   |   `* Re: gpsd no PPS outputWilliam Unruh
|   |    `* Re: gpsd no PPS outputJim Pennino
|   |     `* Re: gpsd no PPS outputchris
|   |      `* Re: gpsd no PPS outputJim Pennino
|   |       `* Re: gpsd no PPS outputchris
|   |        `* Re: gpsd no PPS outputJim Pennino
|   |         `* Re: gpsd no PPS outputchris
|   |          `* Re: gpsd no PPS outputJim Pennino
|   |           `* Re: gpsd no PPS outputWilliam Unruh
|   |            `* Re: gpsd no PPS outputJim Pennino
|   |             `* Re: gpsd no PPS outputWilliam Unruh
|   |              `- Re: gpsd no PPS outputJim Pennino
|   `* Re: gpsd no PPS outputchris
|    +* Re: gpsd no PPS outputJim Pennino
|    |`* Re: gpsd no PPS outputchris
|    | `* Re: gpsd no PPS outputJim Pennino
|    |  `* Re: gpsd no PPS outputchris
|    |   `- Re: gpsd no PPS outputJim Pennino
|    `* Re: gpsd no PPS outputDavid Woolley
|     `- Re: gpsd no PPS outputchris
+* Re: gpsd no PPS outputMiroslav Lichvar
|`* Re: gpsd no PPS outputJim Pennino
| `* Re: gpsd no PPS outputMiroslav Lichvar
|  `- Re: gpsd no PPS outputJim Pennino
`* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedJim Pennino
 +* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedWilliam Unruh
 |`* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedJim Pennino
 | `* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedWilliam Unruh
 |  `* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedJim Pennino
 |   +* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedWilliam Unruh
 |   |`- Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedJim Pennino
 |   `- Re: gpsd no PPS output - Solvedchris
 `* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedMiroslav Lichvar
  +* Re: gpsd no PPS output - Solvedchris
  |`* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedJim Pennino
  | `* Re: gpsd no PPS output - Solvedchris
  |  `* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedJim Pennino
  |   `* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedWilliam Unruh
  |    `- Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedJim Pennino
  `* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedJim Pennino
   `* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedDavid Taylor
    +* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedTerje Mathisen
    |`* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedJim Pennino
    | +* Re: gpsd no PPS output - Solvedchris
    | |+* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedDavid Woolley
    | ||+* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedJim Pennino
    | |||`* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedDavid Woolley
    | ||| `* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedJim Pennino
    | |||  +* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedWilliam Unruh
    | |||  |`* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedJim Pennino
    | |||  | `* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedWilliam Unruh
    | |||  |  `* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedJim Pennino
    | |||  |   +* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedWilliam Unruh
    | |||  |   |`- Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedJim Pennino
    | |||  |   `* Re: gpsd no PPS output - Solvedchris
    | |||  |    `* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedJim Pennino
    | |||  |     `* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedDavid Woolley
    | |||  |      `- Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedJim Pennino
    | |||  `- Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedDavid Woolley
    | ||`* Re: gpsd no PPS output - Solvedchris
    | || +* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedWilliam Unruh
    | || |`- Re: gpsd no PPS output - Solvedchris
    | || +* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedJim Pennino
    | || |+* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedDavid Woolley
    | || ||`* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedJim Pennino
    | || || `* Re: gpsd no PPS output - Solvedchris
    | || ||  +* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedJim Pennino
    | || ||  |`* Re: gpsd no PPS output - Solvedchris
    | || ||  | `* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedJim Pennino
    | || ||  |  +* Re: gpsd no PPS output - Solvedchris
    | || ||  |  |`* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedJim Pennino
    | || ||  |  | `* Re: gpsd no PPS output - Solvedchris
    | || ||  |  |  `* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedJim Pennino
    | || ||  |  |   +* Re: gpsd no PPS output - Solvedchris
    | || ||  |  |   |+* Re: gpsd no PPS output - Solvedchris
    | || ||  |  |   ||`- Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedJim Pennino
    | || ||  |  |   |`- Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedJim Pennino
    | || ||  |  |   `* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedTerje Mathisen
    | || ||  |  |    `* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedJim Pennino
    | || ||  |  |     `* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedTerje Mathisen
    | || ||  |  |      +* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedJim Pennino
    | || ||  |  |      `* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedDavid Woolley
    | || ||  |  `* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedDavid Woolley
    | || ||  `* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedTerje Mathisen
    | || |`* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedTerje Mathisen
    | || `- Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedDavid Woolley
    | |`* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedJim Pennino
    | `* Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedTerje Mathisen
    `- Re: gpsd no PPS output - SolvedJim Pennino

Pages:1234567
gpsd no PPS output

<pqe8th-hsf.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=83&group=comp.protocols.time.ntp#83

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: jimp@gonzo.specsol.net (Jim Pennino)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
Subject: gpsd no PPS output
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 09:56:27 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Jim Pennino - Wed, 28 Jul 2021 16:56 UTC

Using Ubuntu 20.04.2 and gpsd 3.20.

I replaced the long running USB GPS with a serial device, reconfigured
and rebooted.

NMEA data is just fine and ppscheck works but gpsd is not processing the
PPS signal on CTS.

ppstest and ppswatch fail, xgps does not show PPS, and ntpshmmon shows
only NTP0, i.e. not NTP1 and NTP2.

I ran gpsd as a regular user with -D3 -N to look for errors but it
looked OK and was accepting PPS. ntpshmmon showed NTP2 and NTP3 and xgps
did show PPS.

Guessing it was some sort of permissions issue I had introduced over the
years, I did an apt purge gpsd, apt install gpsd and started fresh with
a reboot.

No change.

Thinking maybe apparmor was doing something, I stopped it and did a
teardown.

No change.

Now I have no clue...

Any suggestions?

Re: gpsd no PPS output

<sds9l7$11i8$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=84&group=comp.protocols.time.ntp#84

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!jazQyxryRFiI4FEZ51SAvA.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: chris-nospam@tridac.net (chris)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
Subject: Re: gpsd no PPS output
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 20:03:03 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <sds9l7$11i8$1@gioia.aioe.org>
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 by: chris - Wed, 28 Jul 2021 19:03 UTC

On 07/28/21 17:56, Jim Pennino wrote:
> Using Ubuntu 20.04.2 and gpsd 3.20.
>
> I replaced the long running USB GPS with a serial device, reconfigured
> and rebooted.
>
> NMEA data is just fine and ppscheck works but gpsd is not processing the
> PPS signal on CTS.
>
> ppstest and ppswatch fail, xgps does not show PPS, and ntpshmmon shows
> only NTP0, i.e. not NTP1 and NTP2.
>
> I ran gpsd as a regular user with -D3 -N to look for errors but it
> looked OK and was accepting PPS. ntpshmmon showed NTP2 and NTP3 and xgps
> did show PPS.
>
> Guessing it was some sort of permissions issue I had introduced over the
> years, I did an apt purge gpsd, apt install gpsd and started fresh with
> a reboot.
>
> No change.
>
> Thinking maybe apparmor was doing something, I stopped it and did a
> teardown.
>
> No change.
>
> Now I have no clue...
>
> Any suggestions?
>

One possibility might be that the pps is at ttl level, while a serial
post needs rs3232 +/- levels to trigger properly. You can buy ttl to
rs232 board level adapter for a few $ on Ebay, which is what i'm
using here. Single supply line, 5 or 12 v, don't remember, that you
can tap off from the host b/board...

Re: gpsd no PPS output

<sdsb8o$8tp$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=85&group=comp.protocols.time.ntp#85

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From: unruh@invalid.ca (William Unruh)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
Subject: Re: gpsd no PPS output
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 19:30:33 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: William Unruh - Wed, 28 Jul 2021 19:30 UTC

On 2021-07-28, chris <chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
> On 07/28/21 17:56, Jim Pennino wrote:
>> Using Ubuntu 20.04.2 and gpsd 3.20.
>>
>> I replaced the long running USB GPS with a serial device, reconfigured
>> and rebooted.
>>
>> NMEA data is just fine and ppscheck works but gpsd is not processing the
>> PPS signal on CTS.
>>
>> ppstest and ppswatch fail, xgps does not show PPS, and ntpshmmon shows
>> only NTP0, i.e. not NTP1 and NTP2.
>>
>> I ran gpsd as a regular user with -D3 -N to look for errors but it
>> looked OK and was accepting PPS. ntpshmmon showed NTP2 and NTP3 and xgps
>> did show PPS.
>>
>> Guessing it was some sort of permissions issue I had introduced over the
>> years, I did an apt purge gpsd, apt install gpsd and started fresh with
>> a reboot.
>>
>> No change.
>>
>> Thinking maybe apparmor was doing something, I stopped it and did a
>> teardown.
>>
>> No change.
>>
>> Now I have no clue...
>>
>> Any suggestions?
>>
>
> One possibility might be that the pps is at ttl level, while a serial
> post needs rs3232 +/- levels to trigger properly. You can buy ttl to
> rs232 board level adapter for a few $ on Ebay, which is what i'm
> using here. Single supply line, 5 or 12 v, don't remember, that you
> can tap off from the host b/board...

Although a theoretical possibility, it is highly doubtful, as most
serial cards do NOT follow the standard for rs232 ports, but will
happily use TTL levels. This has been true now for about 40 years I
believe. One problem with the adapters is that they can easily introduce
delays into the signal. They may well be inconsequential for your
purposes, and I would expect them to be on the microsecond level, but do
not know for sure.

You do need something to actually respond to the serial port interrups--
ie a serial port interrupt driver. Linux includes on

I have a "gps" script in /etc/init.d

------------------------------

#! /bin/sh
# # gps Support for NTP i gps clock.
# # chkconfig: 345 70 15
# description: gps is a module to read the PPS from a gps parallel port
# clock and start the shm ntp daemon to deliver the time to ntp.
# # processname: gps

# Get config.
.. /etc/sysconfig/network

# Get functions
.. /etc/rc.d/init.d/functions

module="gps"
device="gps"
mode="664"
group=wheel

echo gsp $1 >>/tmp/gps

# See how we were called.
case "$1" in
start)
echo "Starting gps pps service"
modprobe pps-ldisc
ldattach 18 /dev/ttyS0
;;
stop)
echo "Stopping gps pps service"
killall ldattach
;;
status)
status ldattach
;;

restart)
$0 stop
$0 start
;;

*)
echo "gps wildcard">>/tmp/gps
gprintf "Usage: gps {start|stop|status|restart}\n "
exit 1
;;
esac

exit 0

----------------------

I do not use gpsd however.
>
>
>
>

Re: gpsd no PPS output

<qbn8th-d3u.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=86&group=comp.protocols.time.ntp#86

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: jimp@gonzo.specsol.net (Jim Pennino)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
Subject: Re: gpsd no PPS output
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 12:22:04 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Jim Pennino - Wed, 28 Jul 2021 19:22 UTC

chris <chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
> On 07/28/21 17:56, Jim Pennino wrote:
>> Using Ubuntu 20.04.2 and gpsd 3.20.
>>
>> I replaced the long running USB GPS with a serial device, reconfigured
>> and rebooted.
>>
>> NMEA data is just fine and ppscheck works but gpsd is not processing the
>> PPS signal on CTS.
>>
>> ppstest and ppswatch fail, xgps does not show PPS, and ntpshmmon shows
>> only NTP0, i.e. not NTP1 and NTP2.
>>
>> I ran gpsd as a regular user with -D3 -N to look for errors but it
>> looked OK and was accepting PPS. ntpshmmon showed NTP2 and NTP3 and xgps
>> did show PPS.
>>
>> Guessing it was some sort of permissions issue I had introduced over the
>> years, I did an apt purge gpsd, apt install gpsd and started fresh with
>> a reboot.
>>
>> No change.
>>
>> Thinking maybe apparmor was doing something, I stopped it and did a
>> teardown.
>>
>> No change.
>>
>> Now I have no clue...
>>
>> Any suggestions?
>>
>
> One possibility might be that the pps is at ttl level, while a serial
> post needs rs3232 +/- levels to trigger properly. You can buy ttl to
> rs232 board level adapter for a few $ on Ebay, which is what i'm
> using here. Single supply line, 5 or 12 v, don't remember, that you
> can tap off from the host b/board...
Nope, this is a RS-232 device connected to a RS-232 port and as I said,
ppscheck works fine and PPS seems to get processed if gpsd is run as an
ordinary user, but not if started by root and run as gpsd.

This is NOT a hobby device.

Re: gpsd no PPS output

<n7r8th-b531.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=87&group=comp.protocols.time.ntp#87

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From: jimp@gonzo.specsol.net (Jim Pennino)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
Subject: Re: gpsd no PPS output
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 13:28:09 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Jim Pennino - Wed, 28 Jul 2021 20:28 UTC

William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:

<snip old stuff>

> You do need something to actually respond to the serial port interrups--
> ie a serial port interrupt driver. Linux includes on
>
>
> I have a "gps" script in /etc/init.d

gpsd does all that for you and simplifies configuration, which is why
I'm using gpsd at all.

I did a modprobe check to make sure all the pps stuff was loaded; it
was.

Next is a post to the gpsd support group.

If all else fails, gpsd gets dumped and ntpd gets configured for the
NMEA interface.

Re: gpsd no PPS output

<sdshj8$ork$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=88&group=comp.protocols.time.ntp#88

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From: chris-nospam@tridac.net (chris)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
Subject: Re: gpsd no PPS output
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 22:18:32 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <sdshj8$ork$1@gioia.aioe.org>
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 by: chris - Wed, 28 Jul 2021 21:18 UTC

On 07/28/21 20:22, Jim Pennino wrote:
> chris<chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
>> On 07/28/21 17:56, Jim Pennino wrote:
>>> Using Ubuntu 20.04.2 and gpsd 3.20.
>>>
>>> I replaced the long running USB GPS with a serial device, reconfigured
>>> and rebooted.
>>>
>>> NMEA data is just fine and ppscheck works but gpsd is not processing the
>>> PPS signal on CTS.
>>>
>>> ppstest and ppswatch fail, xgps does not show PPS, and ntpshmmon shows
>>> only NTP0, i.e. not NTP1 and NTP2.
>>>
>>> I ran gpsd as a regular user with -D3 -N to look for errors but it
>>> looked OK and was accepting PPS. ntpshmmon showed NTP2 and NTP3 and xgps
>>> did show PPS.
>>>
>>> Guessing it was some sort of permissions issue I had introduced over the
>>> years, I did an apt purge gpsd, apt install gpsd and started fresh with
>>> a reboot.
>>>
>>> No change.
>>>
>>> Thinking maybe apparmor was doing something, I stopped it and did a
>>> teardown.
>>>
>>> No change.
>>>
>>> Now I have no clue...
>>>
>>> Any suggestions?
>>>
>>
>> One possibility might be that the pps is at ttl level, while a serial
>> post needs rs3232 +/- levels to trigger properly. You can buy ttl to
>> rs232 board level adapter for a few $ on Ebay, which is what i'm
>> using here. Single supply line, 5 or 12 v, don't remember, that you
>> can tap off from the host b/board...
>
> Nope, this is a RS-232 device connected to a RS-232 port and as I said,
> ppscheck works fine and PPS seems to get processed if gpsd is run as an
> ordinary user, but not if started by root and run as gpsd.
>
> This is NOT a hobby device.
>
>

Worth a try. It was the problem on the setup here, a s/hand 1u
time tools gps ntp server, and a micro atx motherboard running FreeBSD.
The time tools pps is ttl, as are all the other gps do boxes here, from
several vendors collected over the years. While such mismatch may
work with some interfaces, there's no guarantee, as the voltage levels
are incorrect. Even if it does work, there may be excessive jitter,
which doesn't help performance. Propagation delay using a drive chip is
only 10's of nS, havng measure it on a scope, so can be ignored.

If the only thing changed is the serial card then it's most likely
something related...

Re: gpsd no PPS output

<sdshv1$t19$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: chris-nospam@tridac.net (chris)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
Subject: Re: gpsd no PPS output
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 22:24:49 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <sdshv1$t19$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <pqe8th-hsf.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net> <sds9l7$11i8$1@gioia.aioe.org> <qbn8th-d3u.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net> <sdshj8$ork$1@gioia.aioe.org>
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 by: chris - Wed, 28 Jul 2021 21:24 UTC

On 07/28/21 22:18, chris wrote:
> On 07/28/21 20:22, Jim Pennino wrote:
>> chris<chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
>>> On 07/28/21 17:56, Jim Pennino wrote:
>>>> Using Ubuntu 20.04.2 and gpsd 3.20.
>>>>
>>>> I replaced the long running USB GPS with a serial device, reconfigured
>>>> and rebooted.
>>>>
>>>> NMEA data is just fine and ppscheck works but gpsd is not processing
>>>> the
>>>> PPS signal on CTS.
>>>>
>>>> ppstest and ppswatch fail, xgps does not show PPS, and ntpshmmon shows
>>>> only NTP0, i.e. not NTP1 and NTP2.
>>>>
>>>> I ran gpsd as a regular user with -D3 -N to look for errors but it
>>>> looked OK and was accepting PPS. ntpshmmon showed NTP2 and NTP3 and
>>>> xgps
>>>> did show PPS.
>>>>
>>>> Guessing it was some sort of permissions issue I had introduced over
>>>> the
>>>> years, I did an apt purge gpsd, apt install gpsd and started fresh with
>>>> a reboot.
>>>>
>>>> No change.
>>>>
>>>> Thinking maybe apparmor was doing something, I stopped it and did a
>>>> teardown.
>>>>
>>>> No change.
>>>>
>>>> Now I have no clue...
>>>>
>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>
>>>
>>> One possibility might be that the pps is at ttl level, while a serial
>>> post needs rs3232 +/- levels to trigger properly. You can buy ttl to
>>> rs232 board level adapter for a few $ on Ebay, which is what i'm
>>> using here. Single supply line, 5 or 12 v, don't remember, that you
>>> can tap off from the host b/board...
>>
>> Nope, this is a RS-232 device connected to a RS-232 port and as I said,
>> ppscheck works fine and PPS seems to get processed if gpsd is run as an
>> ordinary user, but not if started by root and run as gpsd.
>>
>> This is NOT a hobby device.
>>
>>
>
> Worth a try. It was the problem on the setup here, a s/hand 1u
> time tools gps ntp server, and a micro atx motherboard running FreeBSD.
> The time tools pps is ttl, as are all the other gps do boxes here, from
> several vendors collected over the years. While such mismatch may
> work with some interfaces, there's no guarantee, as the voltage levels
> are incorrect. Even if it does work, there may be excessive jitter,
> which doesn't help performance. Propagation delay using a drive chip is
> only 10's of nS, havng measure it on a scope, so can be ignored.
>
> If the only thing changed is the serial card then it's most likely
> something related...
\ Here's the relevant fragment from ntp.conf, dcd line as pps input:

server 127.127.22.0 minpoll 2 maxpoll 2
fudge 127.127.22.0 flag2 1 flag3 1 flag4 1

Re: gpsd no PPS output

<sdslbi$eu2$1@dont-email.me>

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From: unruh@invalid.ca (William Unruh)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
Subject: Re: gpsd no PPS output
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 22:22:42 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: William Unruh - Wed, 28 Jul 2021 22:22 UTC

On 2021-07-28, Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
> William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>
><snip old stuff>
>
>> You do need something to actually respond to the serial port interrups--
>> ie a serial port interrupt driver. Linux includes on
>>
>>
>> I have a "gps" script in /etc/init.d
>
> gpsd does all that for you and simplifies configuration, which is why
> I'm using gpsd at all.

Except it does not work!

>
> I did a modprobe check to make sure all the pps stuff was loaded; it
> was.

Do
cat /sys/devices/virtual/pps/pps0/assert and
cat sys/devices/virtual/pps/pps0/clear
to see if either is giving you signals once a second when the gpsd is
supposed to be servicing the interrupts.

(run each successively)
It is usually assert you want. Your gpsd might be trying to read the
clear, and it never changes.

>
> Next is a post to the gpsd support group.
>
> If all else fails, gpsd gets dumped and ntpd gets configured for the
> NMEA interface.

If all you want is the time to the nearest second then that is fine. If
you want it to better than a few tens of ms, then it is not.

>
>
>

Re: gpsd no PPS output

<sdslqr$eu2$2@dont-email.me>

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From: unruh@invalid.ca (William Unruh)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
Subject: Re: gpsd no PPS output
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 22:30:51 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: William Unruh - Wed, 28 Jul 2021 22:30 UTC

On 2021-07-28, chris <chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
> On 07/28/21 20:22, Jim Pennino wrote:
>> chris<chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
>>> On 07/28/21 17:56, Jim Pennino wrote:
>>>> Using Ubuntu 20.04.2 and gpsd 3.20.
>>>>
>>>> I replaced the long running USB GPS with a serial device, reconfigured
>>>> and rebooted.
>>>>
>>>> NMEA data is just fine and ppscheck works but gpsd is not processing the
>>>> PPS signal on CTS.
>>>>
>>>> ppstest and ppswatch fail, xgps does not show PPS, and ntpshmmon shows
>>>> only NTP0, i.e. not NTP1 and NTP2.
>>>>
>>>> I ran gpsd as a regular user with -D3 -N to look for errors but it
>>>> looked OK and was accepting PPS. ntpshmmon showed NTP2 and NTP3 and xgps
>>>> did show PPS.
>>>>
>>>> Guessing it was some sort of permissions issue I had introduced over the
>>>> years, I did an apt purge gpsd, apt install gpsd and started fresh with
>>>> a reboot.
>>>>
>>>> No change.
>>>>
>>>> Thinking maybe apparmor was doing something, I stopped it and did a
>>>> teardown.
>>>>
>>>> No change.
>>>>
>>>> Now I have no clue...
>>>>
>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>
>>>
>>> One possibility might be that the pps is at ttl level, while a serial
>>> post needs rs3232 +/- levels to trigger properly. You can buy ttl to
>>> rs232 board level adapter for a few $ on Ebay, which is what i'm
>>> using here. Single supply line, 5 or 12 v, don't remember, that you
>>> can tap off from the host b/board...
>>
>> Nope, this is a RS-232 device connected to a RS-232 port and as I said,
>> ppscheck works fine and PPS seems to get processed if gpsd is run as an
>> ordinary user, but not if started by root and run as gpsd.
>>
>> This is NOT a hobby device.
>>
>>
>
> Worth a try. It was the problem on the setup here, a s/hand 1u
> time tools gps ntp server, and a micro atx motherboard running FreeBSD.
> The time tools pps is ttl, as are all the other gps do boxes here, from
> several vendors collected over the years. While such mismatch may
> work with some interfaces, there's no guarantee, as the voltage levels
> are incorrect. Even if it does work, there may be excessive jitter,
> which doesn't help performance. Propagation delay using a drive chip is
> only 10's of nS, havng measure it on a scope, so can be ignored.

Nice theory. But AFAIK almost noone builds RS232 chips/booards with
follow the RS232 guidelines. I do not say noone because you may well
come up with an example, but why should they follow the standards?
Nothing else does. That standard was set about 1950, (Oops I exagerate,
it was 1960)when they were
driven by tubes.

>
> If the only thing changed is the serial card then it's most likely
> something related...

It is possible. Just as it is possible that if your car does not start,
you have to insert a crank into a little hole under the radiator and
turn it.

Re: gpsd no PPS output

<u439th-uh9.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net>

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From: jimp@gonzo.specsol.net (Jim Pennino)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
Subject: Re: gpsd no PPS output
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 15:43:12 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Jim Pennino - Wed, 28 Jul 2021 22:43 UTC

chris <chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
> On 07/28/21 20:22, Jim Pennino wrote:
>> chris<chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
>>> On 07/28/21 17:56, Jim Pennino wrote:
>>>> Using Ubuntu 20.04.2 and gpsd 3.20.
>>>>
>>>> I replaced the long running USB GPS with a serial device, reconfigured
>>>> and rebooted.
>>>>
>>>> NMEA data is just fine and ppscheck works but gpsd is not processing the
>>>> PPS signal on CTS.
>>>>
>>>> ppstest and ppswatch fail, xgps does not show PPS, and ntpshmmon shows
>>>> only NTP0, i.e. not NTP1 and NTP2.
>>>>
>>>> I ran gpsd as a regular user with -D3 -N to look for errors but it
>>>> looked OK and was accepting PPS. ntpshmmon showed NTP2 and NTP3 and xgps
>>>> did show PPS.
>>>>
>>>> Guessing it was some sort of permissions issue I had introduced over the
>>>> years, I did an apt purge gpsd, apt install gpsd and started fresh with
>>>> a reboot.
>>>>
>>>> No change.
>>>>
>>>> Thinking maybe apparmor was doing something, I stopped it and did a
>>>> teardown.
>>>>
>>>> No change.
>>>>
>>>> Now I have no clue...
>>>>
>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>
>>>
>>> One possibility might be that the pps is at ttl level, while a serial
>>> post needs rs3232 +/- levels to trigger properly. You can buy ttl to
>>> rs232 board level adapter for a few $ on Ebay, which is what i'm
>>> using here. Single supply line, 5 or 12 v, don't remember, that you
>>> can tap off from the host b/board...
>>
>> Nope, this is a RS-232 device connected to a RS-232 port and as I said,
>> ppscheck works fine and PPS seems to get processed if gpsd is run as an
>> ordinary user, but not if started by root and run as gpsd.
>>
>> This is NOT a hobby device.
>>
>>
>
> Worth a try. It was the problem on the setup here, a s/hand 1u
> time tools gps ntp server, and a micro atx motherboard running FreeBSD.
> The time tools pps is ttl, as are all the other gps do boxes here, from
> several vendors collected over the years. While such mismatch may
> work with some interfaces, there's no guarantee, as the voltage levels
> are incorrect. Even if it does work, there may be excessive jitter,
> which doesn't help performance. Propagation delay using a drive chip is
> only 10's of nS, havng measure it on a scope, so can be ignored.
>
> If the only thing changed is the serial card then it's most likely
> something related...

What changed is I replaced the USB GPS with a GNSS disciplined OCXO
box which has an RS-232 interface and a specified PPS accuracy in the
nanoseconds.

It remains to be seen if it actually does nanoseconds, but the 10 MHz
+/- 0.0002 Hz output has been verified.

Re: gpsd no PPS output

<sdsn6l$602$1@dont-email.me>

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From: unruh@invalid.ca (William Unruh)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
Subject: Re: gpsd no PPS output
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 22:54:13 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: William Unruh - Wed, 28 Jul 2021 22:54 UTC

On 2021-07-28, Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
> chris <chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
>> On 07/28/21 20:22, Jim Pennino wrote:
>>> chris<chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
>>>> On 07/28/21 17:56, Jim Pennino wrote:
>>>>> Using Ubuntu 20.04.2 and gpsd 3.20.
>>>>>
>>>>> I replaced the long running USB GPS with a serial device, reconfigured
>>>>> and rebooted.
>>>>>
>>>>> NMEA data is just fine and ppscheck works but gpsd is not processing the
>>>>> PPS signal on CTS.
>>>>>
>>>>> ppstest and ppswatch fail, xgps does not show PPS, and ntpshmmon shows
>>>>> only NTP0, i.e. not NTP1 and NTP2.
>>>>>
>>>>> I ran gpsd as a regular user with -D3 -N to look for errors but it
>>>>> looked OK and was accepting PPS. ntpshmmon showed NTP2 and NTP3 and xgps
>>>>> did show PPS.
>>>>>
>>>>> Guessing it was some sort of permissions issue I had introduced over the
>>>>> years, I did an apt purge gpsd, apt install gpsd and started fresh with
>>>>> a reboot.
>>>>>
>>>>> No change.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thinking maybe apparmor was doing something, I stopped it and did a
>>>>> teardown.
>>>>>
>>>>> No change.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now I have no clue...
>>>>>
>>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> One possibility might be that the pps is at ttl level, while a serial
>>>> post needs rs3232 +/- levels to trigger properly. You can buy ttl to
>>>> rs232 board level adapter for a few $ on Ebay, which is what i'm
>>>> using here. Single supply line, 5 or 12 v, don't remember, that you
>>>> can tap off from the host b/board...
>>>
>>> Nope, this is a RS-232 device connected to a RS-232 port and as I said,
>>> ppscheck works fine and PPS seems to get processed if gpsd is run as an
>>> ordinary user, but not if started by root and run as gpsd.
>>>
>>> This is NOT a hobby device.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Worth a try. It was the problem on the setup here, a s/hand 1u
>> time tools gps ntp server, and a micro atx motherboard running FreeBSD.
>> The time tools pps is ttl, as are all the other gps do boxes here, from
>> several vendors collected over the years. While such mismatch may
>> work with some interfaces, there's no guarantee, as the voltage levels
>> are incorrect. Even if it does work, there may be excessive jitter,
>> which doesn't help performance. Propagation delay using a drive chip is
>> only 10's of nS, havng measure it on a scope, so can be ignored.
>>
>> If the only thing changed is the serial card then it's most likely
>> something related...
>
> What changed is I replaced the USB GPS with a GNSS disciplined OCXO
> box which has an RS-232 interface and a specified PPS accuracy in the
> nanoseconds.
>
> It remains to be seen if it actually does nanoseconds, but the 10 MHz
> +/- 0.0002 Hz output has been verified.

Which is pretty useless for timing purposes.
Also that is one part in 10^11, and GPS is incapable of giving that.
I presume that the PPS output is once per second, and that the pulse
width is not too small (milliseconds) , or gpsd might well have trouble recogizing it as
a pulse.
>
>

Re: gpsd no PPS output

<sdsnf2$snl$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: chris-nospam@tridac.net (chris)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
Subject: Re: gpsd no PPS output
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 23:58:42 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <sdsnf2$snl$1@gioia.aioe.org>
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 by: chris - Wed, 28 Jul 2021 22:58 UTC

On 07/28/21 23:30, William Unruh wrote:
> On 2021-07-28, chris<chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
>> On 07/28/21 20:22, Jim Pennino wrote:
>>> chris<chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
>>>> On 07/28/21 17:56, Jim Pennino wrote:
>>>>> Using Ubuntu 20.04.2 and gpsd 3.20.
>>>>>
>>>>> I replaced the long running USB GPS with a serial device, reconfigured
>>>>> and rebooted.
>>>>>
>>>>> NMEA data is just fine and ppscheck works but gpsd is not processing the
>>>>> PPS signal on CTS.
>>>>>
>>>>> ppstest and ppswatch fail, xgps does not show PPS, and ntpshmmon shows
>>>>> only NTP0, i.e. not NTP1 and NTP2.
>>>>>
>>>>> I ran gpsd as a regular user with -D3 -N to look for errors but it
>>>>> looked OK and was accepting PPS. ntpshmmon showed NTP2 and NTP3 and xgps
>>>>> did show PPS.
>>>>>
>>>>> Guessing it was some sort of permissions issue I had introduced over the
>>>>> years, I did an apt purge gpsd, apt install gpsd and started fresh with
>>>>> a reboot.
>>>>>
>>>>> No change.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thinking maybe apparmor was doing something, I stopped it and did a
>>>>> teardown.
>>>>>
>>>>> No change.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now I have no clue...
>>>>>
>>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> One possibility might be that the pps is at ttl level, while a serial
>>>> post needs rs3232 +/- levels to trigger properly. You can buy ttl to
>>>> rs232 board level adapter for a few $ on Ebay, which is what i'm
>>>> using here. Single supply line, 5 or 12 v, don't remember, that you
>>>> can tap off from the host b/board...
>>>
>>> Nope, this is a RS-232 device connected to a RS-232 port and as I said,
>>> ppscheck works fine and PPS seems to get processed if gpsd is run as an
>>> ordinary user, but not if started by root and run as gpsd.
>>>
>>> This is NOT a hobby device.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Worth a try. It was the problem on the setup here, a s/hand 1u
>> time tools gps ntp server, and a micro atx motherboard running FreeBSD.
>> The time tools pps is ttl, as are all the other gps do boxes here, from
>> several vendors collected over the years. While such mismatch may
>> work with some interfaces, there's no guarantee, as the voltage levels
>> are incorrect. Even if it does work, there may be excessive jitter,
>> which doesn't help performance. Propagation delay using a drive chip is
>> only 10's of nS, havng measure it on a scope, so can be ignored.
>
> Nice theory. But AFAIK almost noone builds RS232 chips/booards with
> follow the RS232 guidelines. I do not say noone because you may well
> come up with an example, but why should they follow the standards?
> Nothing else does. That standard was set about 1950, (Oops I exagerate,
> it was 1960)when they were
> driven by tubes.
>

Sorry William, but do this sort of hardware design for work and every
pc with serial ports i've seen, has some sort of level conversion to
generate the rs232 levels, or at least a negative and positive going
waveform. Might not meet the older rs232 spec and some may work
with ttl input, but that's not guaranteed. For timing applications,
it's important to avoid jitter on input transitions, so why not do
the design right, rather than bodging it ?. Might be ok for a
home hack, but not for professional work, not here anyway...

Ymmv, of course...

>
>>
>> If the only thing changed is the serial card then it's most likely
>> something related...
>
> It is possible. Just as it is possible that if your car does not start,
> you have to insert a crank into a little hole under the radiator and
> turn it.

Re: gpsd no PPS output

<3e39th-uh9.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=95&group=comp.protocols.time.ntp#95

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From: jimp@gonzo.specsol.net (Jim Pennino)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
Subject: Re: gpsd no PPS output
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 15:48:05 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Jim Pennino - Wed, 28 Jul 2021 22:48 UTC

chris <chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
> On 07/28/21 22:18, chris wrote:
>> On 07/28/21 20:22, Jim Pennino wrote:
>>> chris<chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
>>>> On 07/28/21 17:56, Jim Pennino wrote:
>>>>> Using Ubuntu 20.04.2 and gpsd 3.20.
>>>>>
>>>>> I replaced the long running USB GPS with a serial device, reconfigured
>>>>> and rebooted.
>>>>>
>>>>> NMEA data is just fine and ppscheck works but gpsd is not processing
>>>>> the
>>>>> PPS signal on CTS.
>>>>>
>>>>> ppstest and ppswatch fail, xgps does not show PPS, and ntpshmmon shows
>>>>> only NTP0, i.e. not NTP1 and NTP2.
>>>>>
>>>>> I ran gpsd as a regular user with -D3 -N to look for errors but it
>>>>> looked OK and was accepting PPS. ntpshmmon showed NTP2 and NTP3 and
>>>>> xgps
>>>>> did show PPS.
>>>>>
>>>>> Guessing it was some sort of permissions issue I had introduced over
>>>>> the
>>>>> years, I did an apt purge gpsd, apt install gpsd and started fresh with
>>>>> a reboot.
>>>>>
>>>>> No change.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thinking maybe apparmor was doing something, I stopped it and did a
>>>>> teardown.
>>>>>
>>>>> No change.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now I have no clue...
>>>>>
>>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> One possibility might be that the pps is at ttl level, while a serial
>>>> post needs rs3232 +/- levels to trigger properly. You can buy ttl to
>>>> rs232 board level adapter for a few $ on Ebay, which is what i'm
>>>> using here. Single supply line, 5 or 12 v, don't remember, that you
>>>> can tap off from the host b/board...
>>>
>>> Nope, this is a RS-232 device connected to a RS-232 port and as I said,
>>> ppscheck works fine and PPS seems to get processed if gpsd is run as an
>>> ordinary user, but not if started by root and run as gpsd.
>>>
>>> This is NOT a hobby device.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Worth a try. It was the problem on the setup here, a s/hand 1u
>> time tools gps ntp server, and a micro atx motherboard running FreeBSD.
>> The time tools pps is ttl, as are all the other gps do boxes here, from
>> several vendors collected over the years. While such mismatch may
>> work with some interfaces, there's no guarantee, as the voltage levels
>> are incorrect. Even if it does work, there may be excessive jitter,
>> which doesn't help performance. Propagation delay using a drive chip is
>> only 10's of nS, havng measure it on a scope, so can be ignored.
>>
>> If the only thing changed is the serial card then it's most likely
>> something related...
> \
> Here's the relevant fragment from ntp.conf, dcd line as pps input:
>
> server 127.127.22.0 minpoll 2 maxpoll 2
> fudge 127.127.22.0 flag2 1 flag3 1 flag4 1
gpsd uses the type 28 driver.

Most versions of ntpd will silently change a minpoll of 2 to 4. You can
verify with ntpq -p. If it says poll is 16, your's is one of them. The
ntp documentation for reference clocks explicitly says setting minpoll
to less than 4 is a waste of time and poll will always be 16, so setting
max poll has no effect.

YMMV

Re: gpsd no PPS output

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From: david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid (David Woolley)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
Subject: Re: gpsd no PPS output
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 00:01:21 +0100
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 by: David Woolley - Wed, 28 Jul 2021 23:01 UTC

On 28/07/2021 23:30, William Unruh wrote:
> But AFAIK almost noone builds RS232 chips/booards with
> follow the RS232 guidelines.

I think you will find they do. Line receivers are allowed a threshold
anywhere between -3V and +3V, so a threshold compatible with TTL is in
spec. I think there is also a part of the specification that requires
control lines to read OFF when the driver is powered down, which implies
the threshold is > 0.

Re: gpsd no PPS output

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From: chris-nospam@tridac.net (chris)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
Subject: Re: gpsd no PPS output
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 00:03:42 +0100
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 by: chris - Wed, 28 Jul 2021 23:03 UTC

On 07/28/21 23:43, Jim Pennino wrote:
> chris<chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
>> On 07/28/21 20:22, Jim Pennino wrote:
>>> chris<chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
>>>> On 07/28/21 17:56, Jim Pennino wrote:
>>>>> Using Ubuntu 20.04.2 and gpsd 3.20.
>>>>>
>>>>> I replaced the long running USB GPS with a serial device, reconfigured
>>>>> and rebooted.
>>>>>
>>>>> NMEA data is just fine and ppscheck works but gpsd is not processing the
>>>>> PPS signal on CTS.
>>>>>
>>>>> ppstest and ppswatch fail, xgps does not show PPS, and ntpshmmon shows
>>>>> only NTP0, i.e. not NTP1 and NTP2.
>>>>>
>>>>> I ran gpsd as a regular user with -D3 -N to look for errors but it
>>>>> looked OK and was accepting PPS. ntpshmmon showed NTP2 and NTP3 and xgps
>>>>> did show PPS.
>>>>>
>>>>> Guessing it was some sort of permissions issue I had introduced over the
>>>>> years, I did an apt purge gpsd, apt install gpsd and started fresh with
>>>>> a reboot.
>>>>>
>>>>> No change.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thinking maybe apparmor was doing something, I stopped it and did a
>>>>> teardown.
>>>>>
>>>>> No change.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now I have no clue...
>>>>>
>>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> One possibility might be that the pps is at ttl level, while a serial
>>>> post needs rs3232 +/- levels to trigger properly. You can buy ttl to
>>>> rs232 board level adapter for a few $ on Ebay, which is what i'm
>>>> using here. Single supply line, 5 or 12 v, don't remember, that you
>>>> can tap off from the host b/board...
>>>
>>> Nope, this is a RS-232 device connected to a RS-232 port and as I said,
>>> ppscheck works fine and PPS seems to get processed if gpsd is run as an
>>> ordinary user, but not if started by root and run as gpsd.
>>>
>>> This is NOT a hobby device.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Worth a try. It was the problem on the setup here, a s/hand 1u
>> time tools gps ntp server, and a micro atx motherboard running FreeBSD.
>> The time tools pps is ttl, as are all the other gps do boxes here, from
>> several vendors collected over the years. While such mismatch may
>> work with some interfaces, there's no guarantee, as the voltage levels
>> are incorrect. Even if it does work, there may be excessive jitter,
>> which doesn't help performance. Propagation delay using a drive chip is
>> only 10's of nS, havng measure it on a scope, so can be ignored.
>>
>> If the only thing changed is the serial card then it's most likely
>> something related...
>
> What changed is I replaced the USB GPS with a GNSS disciplined OCXO
> box which has an RS-232 interface and a specified PPS accuracy in the
> nanoseconds.
>
> It remains to be seen if it actually does nanoseconds, but the 10 MHz
> +/- 0.0002 Hz output has been verified.
>
>

I've used ex telco gps do for frequency standard work for years and they
typically have a pps offset in the 10nS range. You can even adjust the
antenna cable length to compensate. Have a look at the time nuts
mailing list for more info...

Re: gpsd no PPS output

<dt49th-rcb.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=98&group=comp.protocols.time.ntp#98

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From: jimp@gonzo.specsol.net (Jim Pennino)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
Subject: Re: gpsd no PPS output
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 16:13:19 -0700
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 by: Jim Pennino - Wed, 28 Jul 2021 23:13 UTC

William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> On 2021-07-28, Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
>> William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>
>><snip old stuff>
>>
>>> You do need something to actually respond to the serial port interrups--
>>> ie a serial port interrupt driver. Linux includes on
>>>
>>>
>>> I have a "gps" script in /etc/init.d
>>
>> gpsd does all that for you and simplifies configuration, which is why
>> I'm using gpsd at all.
>
> Except it does not work!

Yeah, tell me about it.

It does in the general case as I have other serial systems that use gpsd
and PPS with no issue.

>> I did a modprobe check to make sure all the pps stuff was loaded; it
>> was.
>
> Do
> cat /sys/devices/virtual/pps/pps0/assert and
> cat sys/devices/virtual/pps/pps0/clear
> to see if either is giving you signals once a second when the gpsd is
> supposed to be servicing the interrupts.
>
> (run each successively)
> It is usually assert you want. Your gpsd might be trying to read the
> clear, and it never changes.

When running, gpsd takes control of /dev/pps0.

A cat of both assert and clear both give 0.000000000#0

If I run gpsd as a regular user in debug mode, I can see that it does
ouput PPS but not from the privileged shared memory segment needed for
ntp.

That says to me there is something hosed in the permissions within the
gpsd PPS processing and that it is not a signal level problem.

>> Next is a post to the gpsd support group.
>>
>> If all else fails, gpsd gets dumped and ntpd gets configured for the
>> NMEA interface.
>
> If all you want is the time to the nearest second then that is fine. If
> you want it to better than a few tens of ms, then it is not.

Well, since the 4 machines with a USB GPS all show an average error of
about 1.5 milliseconds with a standard deviation of about 0.5
milliseconds and the other PPS machine shows an average error of about
2 microseconds with a standard deviation of about 150 microseconds,
the time accuracy on the network appears to be OK.

This new device is a GNSS disciplined OCXO in a 4"X4"X2" high box which
will supposedly give me nanoseconds if I can get PPS working on that system.

The 10 MHz +/- 0.0002 Hz frequency reference output seems to be working
OK, so if I could get PPS to work with gpsd...

Re: gpsd no PPS output

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From: jimp@gonzo.specsol.net (Jim Pennino)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
Subject: Re: gpsd no PPS output
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 16:24:50 -0700
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 by: Jim Pennino - Wed, 28 Jul 2021 23:24 UTC

William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> On 2021-07-28, Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
>> chris <chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
>>> On 07/28/21 20:22, Jim Pennino wrote:
>>>> chris<chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 07/28/21 17:56, Jim Pennino wrote:
>>>>>> Using Ubuntu 20.04.2 and gpsd 3.20.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I replaced the long running USB GPS with a serial device, reconfigured
>>>>>> and rebooted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> NMEA data is just fine and ppscheck works but gpsd is not processing the
>>>>>> PPS signal on CTS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ppstest and ppswatch fail, xgps does not show PPS, and ntpshmmon shows
>>>>>> only NTP0, i.e. not NTP1 and NTP2.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I ran gpsd as a regular user with -D3 -N to look for errors but it
>>>>>> looked OK and was accepting PPS. ntpshmmon showed NTP2 and NTP3 and xgps
>>>>>> did show PPS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Guessing it was some sort of permissions issue I had introduced over the
>>>>>> years, I did an apt purge gpsd, apt install gpsd and started fresh with
>>>>>> a reboot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No change.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thinking maybe apparmor was doing something, I stopped it and did a
>>>>>> teardown.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No change.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now I have no clue...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> One possibility might be that the pps is at ttl level, while a serial
>>>>> post needs rs3232 +/- levels to trigger properly. You can buy ttl to
>>>>> rs232 board level adapter for a few $ on Ebay, which is what i'm
>>>>> using here. Single supply line, 5 or 12 v, don't remember, that you
>>>>> can tap off from the host b/board...
>>>>
>>>> Nope, this is a RS-232 device connected to a RS-232 port and as I said,
>>>> ppscheck works fine and PPS seems to get processed if gpsd is run as an
>>>> ordinary user, but not if started by root and run as gpsd.
>>>>
>>>> This is NOT a hobby device.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Worth a try. It was the problem on the setup here, a s/hand 1u
>>> time tools gps ntp server, and a micro atx motherboard running FreeBSD.
>>> The time tools pps is ttl, as are all the other gps do boxes here, from
>>> several vendors collected over the years. While such mismatch may
>>> work with some interfaces, there's no guarantee, as the voltage levels
>>> are incorrect. Even if it does work, there may be excessive jitter,
>>> which doesn't help performance. Propagation delay using a drive chip is
>>> only 10's of nS, havng measure it on a scope, so can be ignored.
>>>
>>> If the only thing changed is the serial card then it's most likely
>>> something related...
>>
>> What changed is I replaced the USB GPS with a GNSS disciplined OCXO
>> box which has an RS-232 interface and a specified PPS accuracy in the
>> nanoseconds.
>>
>> It remains to be seen if it actually does nanoseconds, but the 10 MHz
>> +/- 0.0002 Hz output has been verified.
>
> Which is pretty useless for timing purposes.

True, but it is just fine and dandy for calibrating frequency counters
without having to send them somewhere and it allows testing of radio
dial accuracy no matter the state of the ionosphere.

> Also that is one part in 10^11, and GPS is incapable of giving that.
> I presume that the PPS output is once per second, and that the pulse
> width is not too small (milliseconds) , or gpsd might well have trouble recogizing it as
> a pulse.

This is a commercial box sold specifically as a time and frequency
standard and purchased because it's specifications are only a bit worse
than a rubidium standard and about $600 cheaper.

I have already verified that gpsd CAN recognize the PPS on CTS, but NOT
running with the permissions that it needs to feed ntp.

Re: gpsd no PPS output

<d169th-rcb.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net>

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From: jimp@gonzo.specsol.net (Jim Pennino)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
Subject: Re: gpsd no PPS output
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 16:32:31 -0700
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 by: Jim Pennino - Wed, 28 Jul 2021 23:32 UTC

chris <chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:

<snip old stuff>

> I've used ex telco gps do for frequency standard work for years and they
> typically have a pps offset in the 10nS range. You can even adjust the
> antenna cable length to compensate. Have a look at the time nuts
> mailing list for more info...

I bought this thing because I was interested in the state of the art of
affordable devices.

I am well past the point in my life when I would haunt surplus stores
looking for treasure. I might violate that if I find a good source of
really cheap wave guide.

Re: gpsd no PPS output

<sdsqt2$1va1$1@gioia.aioe.org>

 copy mid

https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=101&group=comp.protocols.time.ntp#101

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!jazQyxryRFiI4FEZ51SAvA.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: chris-nospam@tridac.net (chris)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
Subject: Re: gpsd no PPS output
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 00:57:22 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <sdsqt2$1va1$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <pqe8th-hsf.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net> <sds9l7$11i8$1@gioia.aioe.org> <qbn8th-d3u.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net> <sdshj8$ork$1@gioia.aioe.org> <u439th-uh9.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net> <sdsn6l$602$1@dont-email.me> <0j59th-rcb.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net>
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 by: chris - Wed, 28 Jul 2021 23:57 UTC

On 07/29/21 00:24, Jim Pennino wrote:
> William Unruh<unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>> On 2021-07-28, Jim Pennino<jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
>>> chris<chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
>>>> On 07/28/21 20:22, Jim Pennino wrote:
>>>>> chris<chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On 07/28/21 17:56, Jim Pennino wrote:
>>>>>>> Using Ubuntu 20.04.2 and gpsd 3.20.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I replaced the long running USB GPS with a serial device, reconfigured
>>>>>>> and rebooted.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> NMEA data is just fine and ppscheck works but gpsd is not processing the
>>>>>>> PPS signal on CTS.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ppstest and ppswatch fail, xgps does not show PPS, and ntpshmmon shows
>>>>>>> only NTP0, i.e. not NTP1 and NTP2.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I ran gpsd as a regular user with -D3 -N to look for errors but it
>>>>>>> looked OK and was accepting PPS. ntpshmmon showed NTP2 and NTP3 and xgps
>>>>>>> did show PPS.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Guessing it was some sort of permissions issue I had introduced over the
>>>>>>> years, I did an apt purge gpsd, apt install gpsd and started fresh with
>>>>>>> a reboot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No change.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thinking maybe apparmor was doing something, I stopped it and did a
>>>>>>> teardown.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No change.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now I have no clue...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One possibility might be that the pps is at ttl level, while a serial
>>>>>> post needs rs3232 +/- levels to trigger properly. You can buy ttl to
>>>>>> rs232 board level adapter for a few $ on Ebay, which is what i'm
>>>>>> using here. Single supply line, 5 or 12 v, don't remember, that you
>>>>>> can tap off from the host b/board...
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope, this is a RS-232 device connected to a RS-232 port and as I said,
>>>>> ppscheck works fine and PPS seems to get processed if gpsd is run as an
>>>>> ordinary user, but not if started by root and run as gpsd.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is NOT a hobby device.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Worth a try. It was the problem on the setup here, a s/hand 1u
>>>> time tools gps ntp server, and a micro atx motherboard running FreeBSD.
>>>> The time tools pps is ttl, as are all the other gps do boxes here, from
>>>> several vendors collected over the years. While such mismatch may
>>>> work with some interfaces, there's no guarantee, as the voltage levels
>>>> are incorrect. Even if it does work, there may be excessive jitter,
>>>> which doesn't help performance. Propagation delay using a drive chip is
>>>> only 10's of nS, havng measure it on a scope, so can be ignored.
>>>>
>>>> If the only thing changed is the serial card then it's most likely
>>>> something related...
>>>
>>> What changed is I replaced the USB GPS with a GNSS disciplined OCXO
>>> box which has an RS-232 interface and a specified PPS accuracy in the
>>> nanoseconds.
>>>
>>> It remains to be seen if it actually does nanoseconds, but the 10 MHz
>>> +/- 0.0002 Hz output has been verified.
>>
>> Which is pretty useless for timing purposes.
>
> True, but it is just fine and dandy for calibrating frequency counters
> without having to send them somewhere and it allows testing of radio
> dial accuracy no matter the state of the ionosphere.
>
>> Also that is one part in 10^11, and GPS is incapable of giving that.
>> I presume that the PPS output is once per second, and that the pulse
>> width is not too small (milliseconds) , or gpsd might well have trouble recogizing it as
>> a pulse.
>
> This is a commercial box sold specifically as a time and frequency
> standard and purchased because it's specifications are only a bit worse
> than a rubidium standard and about $600 cheaper.
>
> I have already verified that gpsd CAN recognize the PPS on CTS, but NOT
> running with the permissions that it needs to feed ntp.
>
>

Interesting, as some serial device chips have internal hardware locking
between some of the control functions. I used the dcd line for the
system here, which was fine, but haven't tested with the cts line...

>

Re: gpsd no PPS output

<sdsr16$1va1$2@gioia.aioe.org>

 copy mid

https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=102&group=comp.protocols.time.ntp#102

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!jazQyxryRFiI4FEZ51SAvA.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: chris-nospam@tridac.net (chris)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
Subject: Re: gpsd no PPS output
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 00:59:34 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <sdsr16$1va1$2@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <pqe8th-hsf.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net> <sds9l7$11i8$1@gioia.aioe.org> <qbn8th-d3u.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net> <sdshj8$ork$1@gioia.aioe.org> <u439th-uh9.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net> <sdsn6l$602$1@dont-email.me> <0j59th-rcb.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net> <sdsqt2$1va1$1@gioia.aioe.org>
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 by: chris - Wed, 28 Jul 2021 23:59 UTC

On 07/29/21 00:57, chris wrote:
> On 07/29/21 00:24, Jim Pennino wrote:
>> William Unruh<unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>> On 2021-07-28, Jim Pennino<jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
>>>> chris<chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 07/28/21 20:22, Jim Pennino wrote:
>>>>>> chris<chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 07/28/21 17:56, Jim Pennino wrote:
>>>>>>>> Using Ubuntu 20.04.2 and gpsd 3.20.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I replaced the long running USB GPS with a serial device,
>>>>>>>> reconfigured
>>>>>>>> and rebooted.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> NMEA data is just fine and ppscheck works but gpsd is not
>>>>>>>> processing the
>>>>>>>> PPS signal on CTS.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ppstest and ppswatch fail, xgps does not show PPS, and ntpshmmon
>>>>>>>> shows
>>>>>>>> only NTP0, i.e. not NTP1 and NTP2.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I ran gpsd as a regular user with -D3 -N to look for errors but it
>>>>>>>> looked OK and was accepting PPS. ntpshmmon showed NTP2 and NTP3
>>>>>>>> and xgps
>>>>>>>> did show PPS.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Guessing it was some sort of permissions issue I had introduced
>>>>>>>> over the
>>>>>>>> years, I did an apt purge gpsd, apt install gpsd and started
>>>>>>>> fresh with
>>>>>>>> a reboot.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No change.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thinking maybe apparmor was doing something, I stopped it and did a
>>>>>>>> teardown.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No change.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now I have no clue...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One possibility might be that the pps is at ttl level, while a
>>>>>>> serial
>>>>>>> post needs rs3232 +/- levels to trigger properly. You can buy ttl to
>>>>>>> rs232 board level adapter for a few $ on Ebay, which is what i'm
>>>>>>> using here. Single supply line, 5 or 12 v, don't remember, that you
>>>>>>> can tap off from the host b/board...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope, this is a RS-232 device connected to a RS-232 port and as I
>>>>>> said,
>>>>>> ppscheck works fine and PPS seems to get processed if gpsd is run
>>>>>> as an
>>>>>> ordinary user, but not if started by root and run as gpsd.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is NOT a hobby device.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Worth a try. It was the problem on the setup here, a s/hand 1u
>>>>> time tools gps ntp server, and a micro atx motherboard running
>>>>> FreeBSD.
>>>>> The time tools pps is ttl, as are all the other gps do boxes here,
>>>>> from
>>>>> several vendors collected over the years. While such mismatch may
>>>>> work with some interfaces, there's no guarantee, as the voltage levels
>>>>> are incorrect. Even if it does work, there may be excessive jitter,
>>>>> which doesn't help performance. Propagation delay using a drive
>>>>> chip is
>>>>> only 10's of nS, havng measure it on a scope, so can be ignored.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the only thing changed is the serial card then it's most likely
>>>>> something related...
>>>>
>>>> What changed is I replaced the USB GPS with a GNSS disciplined OCXO
>>>> box which has an RS-232 interface and a specified PPS accuracy in the
>>>> nanoseconds.
>>>>
>>>> It remains to be seen if it actually does nanoseconds, but the 10 MHz
>>>> +/- 0.0002 Hz output has been verified.
>>>
>>> Which is pretty useless for timing purposes.
>>
>> True, but it is just fine and dandy for calibrating frequency counters
>> without having to send them somewhere and it allows testing of radio
>> dial accuracy no matter the state of the ionosphere.
>>
>>> Also that is one part in 10^11, and GPS is incapable of giving that.
>>> I presume that the PPS output is once per second, and that the pulse
>>> width is not too small (milliseconds) , or gpsd might well have
>>> trouble recogizing it as
>>> a pulse.
>>
>> This is a commercial box sold specifically as a time and frequency
>> standard and purchased because it's specifications are only a bit worse
>> than a rubidium standard and about $600 cheaper.
>>
>> I have already verified that gpsd CAN recognize the PPS on CTS, but NOT
>> running with the permissions that it needs to feed ntp.
>>
>>
>
> Interesting, as some serial device chips have internal hardware locking
> between some of the control functions. I used the dcd line for the
> system here, which was fine, but haven't tested with the cts line...
>

Ignore above but how about permissions on the serial device itself ?...

Re: gpsd no PPS output

<sdsr7a$2g8$1@gioia.aioe.org>

 copy mid

https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=103&group=comp.protocols.time.ntp#103

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!jazQyxryRFiI4FEZ51SAvA.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: chris-nospam@tridac.net (chris)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
Subject: Re: gpsd no PPS output
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 01:02:50 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <sdsr7a$2g8$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <pqe8th-hsf.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net> <sds9l7$11i8$1@gioia.aioe.org> <qbn8th-d3u.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net> <sdshj8$ork$1@gioia.aioe.org> <u439th-uh9.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net> <sdsnoe$vna$1@gioia.aioe.org> <d169th-rcb.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net>
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 by: chris - Thu, 29 Jul 2021 00:02 UTC

On 07/29/21 00:32, Jim Pennino wrote:
> chris<chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
>
> <snip old stuff>
>
>
>> I've used ex telco gps do for frequency standard work for years and they
>> typically have a pps offset in the 10nS range. You can even adjust the
>> antenna cable length to compensate. Have a look at the time nuts
>> mailing list for more info...
>
>
> I bought this thing because I was interested in the state of the art of
> affordable devices.
>
> I am well past the point in my life when I would haunt surplus stores
> looking for treasure. I might violate that if I find a good source of
> really cheap wave guide.
>
>

Depends on the item, but have more or less equipped the lab here with
older high end test gear, even some parts / repair. Trade time against
money. Never get tired of just making stuff work...

Re: gpsd no PPS output

<4cb9th-9ne.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net>

 copy mid

https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=104&group=comp.protocols.time.ntp#104

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!NeTawDmIVhgskIJYLcj0Dw.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: jimp@gonzo.specsol.net (Jim Pennino)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
Subject: Re: gpsd no PPS output
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 18:03:34 -0700
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <4cb9th-9ne.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net>
References: <pqe8th-hsf.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net> <sds9l7$11i8$1@gioia.aioe.org> <qbn8th-d3u.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net> <sdshj8$ork$1@gioia.aioe.org> <u439th-uh9.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net> <sdsn6l$602$1@dont-email.me> <0j59th-rcb.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net> <sdsqt2$1va1$1@gioia.aioe.org> <sdsr16$1va1$2@gioia.aioe.org>
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 by: Jim Pennino - Thu, 29 Jul 2021 01:03 UTC

chris <chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:

<snip old stuff>

>
> Ignore above but how about permissions on the serial device itself ?...
The problem seems to be permissions related to shared memory segments.

Re: gpsd no PPS output

<qrb9th-9ne.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=105&group=comp.protocols.time.ntp#105

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!NeTawDmIVhgskIJYLcj0Dw.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: jimp@gonzo.specsol.net (Jim Pennino)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
Subject: Re: gpsd no PPS output
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 18:11:56 -0700
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <qrb9th-9ne.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net>
References: <pqe8th-hsf.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net> <sds9l7$11i8$1@gioia.aioe.org> <qbn8th-d3u.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net> <sdshj8$ork$1@gioia.aioe.org> <u439th-uh9.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net> <sdsnoe$vna$1@gioia.aioe.org> <d169th-rcb.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net> <sdsr7a$2g8$1@gioia.aioe.org>
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 by: Jim Pennino - Thu, 29 Jul 2021 01:11 UTC

chris <chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
> On 07/29/21 00:32, Jim Pennino wrote:
>> chris<chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
>>
>> <snip old stuff>
>>
>>
>>> I've used ex telco gps do for frequency standard work for years and they
>>> typically have a pps offset in the 10nS range. You can even adjust the
>>> antenna cable length to compensate. Have a look at the time nuts
>>> mailing list for more info...
>>
>>
>> I bought this thing because I was interested in the state of the art of
>> affordable devices.
>>
>> I am well past the point in my life when I would haunt surplus stores
>> looking for treasure. I might violate that if I find a good source of
>> really cheap wave guide.
>>
>>
>
> Depends on the item, but have more or less equipped the lab here with
> older high end test gear, even some parts / repair. Trade time against
> money. Never get tired of just making stuff work...
The inducement here is that while GPS disciplined oscillators are very
old technology which used to live in 19" 5U rack mount boxes and cost
tens of thousands of dollars, they now consist of some chip sets on a
circuit board in a 4"X4"X2" high box and costs about $180 with shipping.

Re: gpsd no PPS output

<l9b9th-9ne.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net>

 copy mid

https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=106&group=comp.protocols.time.ntp#106

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!NeTawDmIVhgskIJYLcj0Dw.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: jimp@gonzo.specsol.net (Jim Pennino)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
Subject: Re: gpsd no PPS output
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 18:02:15 -0700
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <l9b9th-9ne.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net>
References: <pqe8th-hsf.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net> <sds9l7$11i8$1@gioia.aioe.org> <qbn8th-d3u.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net> <sdshj8$ork$1@gioia.aioe.org> <u439th-uh9.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net> <sdsn6l$602$1@dont-email.me> <0j59th-rcb.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net> <sdsqt2$1va1$1@gioia.aioe.org>
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 by: Jim Pennino - Thu, 29 Jul 2021 01:02 UTC

chris <chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
> On 07/29/21 00:24, Jim Pennino wrote:
>> William Unruh<unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>> On 2021-07-28, Jim Pennino<jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
>>>> chris<chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 07/28/21 20:22, Jim Pennino wrote:
>>>>>> chris<chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 07/28/21 17:56, Jim Pennino wrote:
>>>>>>>> Using Ubuntu 20.04.2 and gpsd 3.20.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I replaced the long running USB GPS with a serial device, reconfigured
>>>>>>>> and rebooted.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> NMEA data is just fine and ppscheck works but gpsd is not processing the
>>>>>>>> PPS signal on CTS.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ppstest and ppswatch fail, xgps does not show PPS, and ntpshmmon shows
>>>>>>>> only NTP0, i.e. not NTP1 and NTP2.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I ran gpsd as a regular user with -D3 -N to look for errors but it
>>>>>>>> looked OK and was accepting PPS. ntpshmmon showed NTP2 and NTP3 and xgps
>>>>>>>> did show PPS.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Guessing it was some sort of permissions issue I had introduced over the
>>>>>>>> years, I did an apt purge gpsd, apt install gpsd and started fresh with
>>>>>>>> a reboot.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No change.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thinking maybe apparmor was doing something, I stopped it and did a
>>>>>>>> teardown.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No change.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now I have no clue...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One possibility might be that the pps is at ttl level, while a serial
>>>>>>> post needs rs3232 +/- levels to trigger properly. You can buy ttl to
>>>>>>> rs232 board level adapter for a few $ on Ebay, which is what i'm
>>>>>>> using here. Single supply line, 5 or 12 v, don't remember, that you
>>>>>>> can tap off from the host b/board...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope, this is a RS-232 device connected to a RS-232 port and as I said,
>>>>>> ppscheck works fine and PPS seems to get processed if gpsd is run as an
>>>>>> ordinary user, but not if started by root and run as gpsd.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is NOT a hobby device.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Worth a try. It was the problem on the setup here, a s/hand 1u
>>>>> time tools gps ntp server, and a micro atx motherboard running FreeBSD.
>>>>> The time tools pps is ttl, as are all the other gps do boxes here, from
>>>>> several vendors collected over the years. While such mismatch may
>>>>> work with some interfaces, there's no guarantee, as the voltage levels
>>>>> are incorrect. Even if it does work, there may be excessive jitter,
>>>>> which doesn't help performance. Propagation delay using a drive chip is
>>>>> only 10's of nS, havng measure it on a scope, so can be ignored.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the only thing changed is the serial card then it's most likely
>>>>> something related...
>>>>
>>>> What changed is I replaced the USB GPS with a GNSS disciplined OCXO
>>>> box which has an RS-232 interface and a specified PPS accuracy in the
>>>> nanoseconds.
>>>>
>>>> It remains to be seen if it actually does nanoseconds, but the 10 MHz
>>>> +/- 0.0002 Hz output has been verified.
>>>
>>> Which is pretty useless for timing purposes.
>>
>> True, but it is just fine and dandy for calibrating frequency counters
>> without having to send them somewhere and it allows testing of radio
>> dial accuracy no matter the state of the ionosphere.
>>
>>> Also that is one part in 10^11, and GPS is incapable of giving that.
>>> I presume that the PPS output is once per second, and that the pulse
>>> width is not too small (milliseconds) , or gpsd might well have trouble recogizing it as
>>> a pulse.
>>
>> This is a commercial box sold specifically as a time and frequency
>> standard and purchased because it's specifications are only a bit worse
>> than a rubidium standard and about $600 cheaper.
>>
>> I have already verified that gpsd CAN recognize the PPS on CTS, but NOT
>> running with the permissions that it needs to feed ntp.
>>
>>
>
> Interesting, as some serial device chips have internal hardware locking
> between some of the control functions. I used the dcd line for the
> system here, which was fine, but haven't tested with the cts line...

There are no "serial device chips", there is a commercial PCI interface
board specified to work as RS-232 ports with full hardware handshake.

Re: gpsd no PPS output

<sdt7sa$h74$1@dont-email.me>

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From: unruh@invalid.ca (William Unruh)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp
Subject: Re: gpsd no PPS output
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 03:38:50 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: William Unruh - Thu, 29 Jul 2021 03:38 UTC

On 2021-07-29, Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
> chris <chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
>> On 07/29/21 00:24, Jim Pennino wrote:
>>> William Unruh<unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>>> On 2021-07-28, Jim Pennino<jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
>>>>> chris<chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On 07/28/21 20:22, Jim Pennino wrote:
>>>>>>> chris<chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 07/28/21 17:56, Jim Pennino wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Using Ubuntu 20.04.2 and gpsd 3.20.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I replaced the long running USB GPS with a serial device, reconfigured
>>>>>>>>> and rebooted.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> NMEA data is just fine and ppscheck works but gpsd is not processing the
>>>>>>>>> PPS signal on CTS.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ppstest and ppswatch fail, xgps does not show PPS, and ntpshmmon shows
>>>>>>>>> only NTP0, i.e. not NTP1 and NTP2.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I ran gpsd as a regular user with -D3 -N to look for errors but it
>>>>>>>>> looked OK and was accepting PPS. ntpshmmon showed NTP2 and NTP3 and xgps
>>>>>>>>> did show PPS.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Guessing it was some sort of permissions issue I had introduced over the
>>>>>>>>> years, I did an apt purge gpsd, apt install gpsd and started fresh with
>>>>>>>>> a reboot.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No change.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thinking maybe apparmor was doing something, I stopped it and did a
>>>>>>>>> teardown.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No change.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Now I have no clue...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One possibility might be that the pps is at ttl level, while a serial
>>>>>>>> post needs rs3232 +/- levels to trigger properly. You can buy ttl to
>>>>>>>> rs232 board level adapter for a few $ on Ebay, which is what i'm
>>>>>>>> using here. Single supply line, 5 or 12 v, don't remember, that you
>>>>>>>> can tap off from the host b/board...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope, this is a RS-232 device connected to a RS-232 port and as I said,
>>>>>>> ppscheck works fine and PPS seems to get processed if gpsd is run as an
>>>>>>> ordinary user, but not if started by root and run as gpsd.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is NOT a hobby device.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Worth a try. It was the problem on the setup here, a s/hand 1u
>>>>>> time tools gps ntp server, and a micro atx motherboard running FreeBSD.
>>>>>> The time tools pps is ttl, as are all the other gps do boxes here, from
>>>>>> several vendors collected over the years. While such mismatch may
>>>>>> work with some interfaces, there's no guarantee, as the voltage levels
>>>>>> are incorrect. Even if it does work, there may be excessive jitter,
>>>>>> which doesn't help performance. Propagation delay using a drive chip is
>>>>>> only 10's of nS, havng measure it on a scope, so can be ignored.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the only thing changed is the serial card then it's most likely
>>>>>> something related...
>>>>>
>>>>> What changed is I replaced the USB GPS with a GNSS disciplined OCXO
>>>>> box which has an RS-232 interface and a specified PPS accuracy in the
>>>>> nanoseconds.
>>>>>
>>>>> It remains to be seen if it actually does nanoseconds, but the 10 MHz
>>>>> +/- 0.0002 Hz output has been verified.
>>>>
>>>> Which is pretty useless for timing purposes.
>>>
>>> True, but it is just fine and dandy for calibrating frequency counters
>>> without having to send them somewhere and it allows testing of radio
>>> dial accuracy no matter the state of the ionosphere.
>>>
>>>> Also that is one part in 10^11, and GPS is incapable of giving that.
>>>> I presume that the PPS output is once per second, and that the pulse
>>>> width is not too small (milliseconds) , or gpsd might well have trouble recogizing it as
>>>> a pulse.
>>>
>>> This is a commercial box sold specifically as a time and frequency
>>> standard and purchased because it's specifications are only a bit worse
>>> than a rubidium standard and about $600 cheaper.
>>>
>>> I have already verified that gpsd CAN recognize the PPS on CTS, but NOT
>>> running with the permissions that it needs to feed ntp.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Interesting, as some serial device chips have internal hardware locking
>> between some of the control functions. I used the dcd line for the
>> system here, which was fine, but haven't tested with the cts line...
>
> There are no "serial device chips", there is a commercial PCI interface
> board specified to work as RS-232 ports with full hardware handshake.

But those "PCI interface board" contains "serial device chips"
>
>

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